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Post by afwchicom1 on Jan 9, 2013 20:17:45 GMT -5
Can someone explain why this happens even offline in splitscreen? Are the cameras broken or is there some sort of weird lag compensation in splitscreen?
The original video (tests over LAN):
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Jan 9, 2013 20:23:49 GMT -5
My mind is blown. Thank you for showing this video.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Jan 9, 2013 20:34:09 GMT -5
amazing, he explains it in the video. the cameras give you an unfair advantage my only thought would be that it was made so people could kill "campers" eaiser. the stances has been in cod before
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Jan 9, 2013 20:48:53 GMT -5
This video explains it even more in detail with a review and explanation.
or...
(Note: It's a pretty long video at nearly 20 minutes)
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Post by afwchicom1 on Jan 9, 2013 21:07:50 GMT -5
This video explains it even more in detail with a review and explanation. or... (Note: It's a pretty long video at nearly 20 minutes) The thing is he hooks up two consoles together and plays over LAN, making it seem like some sort of lag comp issue. You get the same results when playing locally in splitscreen, which suggests that something else may be involved.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Jan 9, 2013 21:28:43 GMT -5
Getting up and down consist of animations (so is running).Your HUD may not be exactly on the model head. Go splitscreen and aim exactly at your dummy head. On his screen, you will be way off (also consider the fact that your model aim is also not in sync with your HUD).
In other words, your head is not your model head. e.g. headglitching
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Post by palladium on Jan 9, 2013 21:34:42 GMT -5
This video explains it even more in detail with a review and explanation. (Note: It's a pretty long video at nearly 20 minutes) The video OP posted literally references this vid at the start... This just goes to show the advantage goes to the person moving who turns the corner. Yet another way to discourage tactical loitering I suppose.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2013 22:15:26 GMT -5
The issue with the crouching/proning delay has been around since CoD2.
In CoD1 on PC, there's issues while leaning left and and moving while peeking around corners. If you get it right you can be practically peeking around a corner, without really peeking.
Issues with animations not syncing with the camera have existed since the beginning of the game. As for the other examples, I'm not so sure.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jan 10, 2013 5:32:24 GMT -5
This video explains it even more in detail with a review and explanation. (Note: It's a pretty long video at nearly 20 minutes) I agree with the “scorestreaks” part. They suck completely - they are annoying, like Hunter Killer (Predator for dummies) or exploding car, or hard to avoid (Lightning Strike) or destroy or counter so have a role of a PUNISHMENT. Now every time VSAT or Lodestar or DOGS or VTOL or SWARM is called = I quit the Foxtrotting game. No matter what, I might be 20 sec before game ends and my team is winning, I do not care. It went far too far away from COD4 killstreaks.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 10, 2013 6:58:51 GMT -5
This video explains it even more in detail with a review and explanation. (Note: It's a pretty long video at nearly 20 minutes) I agree with the “scorestreaks” part. They suck completely - they are annoying, like Hunter Killer (Predator for dummies) or exploding car, or hard to avoid (Lightning Strike) or destroy or counter so have a role of a PUNISHMENT. Now every time VSAT or Lodestar or DOGS or VTOL or SWARM is called = I quit the Foxtrotting game. No matter what, I might be 20 sec before game ends and my team is winning, I do not care. It went far too far away from COD4 killstreaks. Remember how you could actually SHOOT A HELICOPTER DOWN with a gun?
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Jan 10, 2013 7:25:05 GMT -5
I agree with the “scorestreaks” part. They suck completely - they are annoying, like Hunter Killer (Predator for dummies) or exploding car, or hard to avoid (Lightning Strike) or destroy or counter so have a role of a PUNISHMENT. Now every time VSAT or Lodestar or DOGS or VTOL or SWARM is called = I quit the Foxtrotting game. No matter what, I might be 20 sec before game ends and my team is winning, I do not care. It went far too far away from COD4 killstreaks. Remember how you could actually SHOOT A HELICOPTER DOWN with a gun? Of all the things, this is probably my number 1 most hated aspect about 3arc. I loved shooting down killstreaks in mw2 and mw3 with stopping power/blindeye pro and silenced weapons.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Jan 10, 2013 7:34:44 GMT -5
I don't get why cod has to have all this artificial lag. The ads delay while moving was already too much, now this?
And I don't buy the anti-tactical loitering conclusion. The ads delay while moving directly aids campers.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 10, 2013 7:38:23 GMT -5
I don't get why cod has to have all this artificial lag. The ads delay while moving was already too much, now this? And I don't buy the anti-tactical loitering conclusion. The ads delay while moving directly aids campers. True.
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Post by bucket415 on Jan 10, 2013 10:23:49 GMT -5
I tweeted the video to Gayarch and David Vonderqueer. Expect nothing to change and the bullshit deaths to be a happy part of the incredible online experience that Activision continues to deliver every 12 months.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Jan 10, 2013 10:24:28 GMT -5
I tweeted the video to Gayarch and David Vonderqueer. Expect nothing to change and the bulldoo-doo deaths to be a happy part of the incredible online experience that Activision continues to deliver every 12 months. I hope you don`t mind sir, but I am keeping these names.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 10, 2013 11:03:35 GMT -5
I'm going to take a differing point of view here.
1. What the OP is claiming to be a broken camera system/model in split screen, imparting 20 to 400 millisecond advantages to the guy who is moving (over the stationary person)....is this something only unique to split-screening? Is there a way to test this out in the multiplayer, so that we can know if it exists there too? Right now, that shouldn't be assumed it's there too.
2. If it is there in MP, it's not imparting an 'unfair' advantage, it's just imparting a CONSISTENT, predictable advantage for players who move in this game. There is a huge difference in wording there, that people don't get. If you are aggressive, moving, taking the initiative...all things equal (setting aside 10 to 500ms lag swings), the guy moving will always have an advantage. That's not unfair. That's just predictable. You don't like it? Then move. That's how this game plays. That doesn't affect competitiveness.
3. The author of the original video, he's a fvcking skirt wearing girl. Look at the crying he is doing at the end of the video. Comments like....
- "this game is far from being remotely competitive or skillful by any non-fanboy" - "Treyarch's attempts at creating a competitive game will remain futile" - "CoD in the past was a fair game" - "Children, who are the real Activision audience now, are easily manipulated" - "Maybe we can get a real competitive experience, like Quake"
These are douchebag comments. They are. This bro doesn't even 'get it' . First. When talking about 'competitiveness', there is real competition in real sports, that real men/women do...and then there is VIDEO GAME competition, ...the two shall never mix. Real bros get this subtle difference. And when talking video game competition, only an idiot starts up with the whole "whhhhaaaaa, i'm going to play a real competitive game like star craft or quake" STFU. It's still a video game at the end of the day, Quake or CoD, who cares. You are just splitting hairs on the margins as you are still using a monitor screen and sitting on your ass.
Don't call me a 'fanboy' because i can see what CoD is....a video game. I see it. I don't expect it to be like the NFL, where hundreds of attorneys split fine hairs every year trying to create equality and competitiveness through drafts, salary caps, rules, etc..I get it, it's a game. You don't.
If you want REAL competition, get off your ass, put down the Doritos, and take your soaking wet 110bls boy body to the where real sports are. There you will find real competition. If you can't handle that, then please spare us the whining about video games trying to be 'competitive'. They are competitive, just in a VIDEO GAME way. I know what this is about. It's a freaking video game. Keep in context. You say CoD is unpredictable to be competitive? Bvulldoo-doo. I can go play 5,000 games and probably only in a handful of them, will the above 'camera' mvt issue, or 'lag', affect the outcome. The better players will win. Therefore, it's still competitive.
These issues, in this video, are pretty much only a factor at the really remote far fringes of the gaming community. Where you have a few dozen small groups of equal skill butting heads at MLG events. Yeah, ok...it's an issue there. But with that, ...who gives a sh1t, because again.......those events are trying to be real sports, real competition...and they can never be that. So why bother?
2.
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Post by otisman666 on Jan 10, 2013 13:10:59 GMT -5
Video probably would have been better if there was some comparison to the other games that have the split screen option. Is this a new problem or has it always been there?
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 10, 2013 16:11:01 GMT -5
Easy to check.
I have all my CoD's and they all have split screen. If the local lag is as much as the OP bro says, I should be able to see it,....right?
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Jan 10, 2013 16:36:30 GMT -5
i agree with IW.
and quake was fair? what an absolute dumbass. son quake & all of it's spawns, unreal & all of it's spawns are not any more fair & balanced than COD.
which is exactly what J.C. said over 13 years ago
the only "fair" FPS game is CPMA. Challange ProMode Arena conversions for quake/unreal.
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Jan 10, 2013 18:14:08 GMT -5
This video explains it even more in detail with a review and explanation. or... (Note: It's a pretty long video at nearly 20 minutes) Wow. Wow. Just wow. Wowwowowowow. You know. Wow. Like. Wow. Wowser. What else is there to say?... Wow. TL;DS: The delays are ABSURD online. ABSURD. ab·surd (b-sûrd, -zûrd) adj. 1. Ridiculously incongruous or unreasonable. 2. Of, relating to, or manifesting the view that there is no order or value in human life or in the universe. 3. Of or relating to absurdism or the absurd. n. The condition or state in which humans exist in a meaningless, irrational universe wherein people's lives have no purpose or meaning. Used chiefly with the. Absurd.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jan 10, 2013 18:31:17 GMT -5
Wow, I wouldn't have expected toys to agree with IW seeing as how toys spends so much time trying to get a competitive edge over other people
And I personally don't agree. I think games can be competitive at a very high level. The entire premise to soccer is shooting a ball in a net. Nothing more too it. See, just did the same thing
I don't really care for competitive gaming (though it does stimulate a certain degree of quality to mp games. that's nice) but I do acknowledge it excisting. Mind sports are sports too
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Jan 10, 2013 21:03:16 GMT -5
One note about the original video: He goes on and on about the camera being in front of the player model -- but then comes the end, where he demonstrates that his bullets have a delay as well.
Newsflah! There's a delay across the entire board even in splitscreen!
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Post by KingVaroon on Jan 11, 2013 7:15:02 GMT -5
If you look at the very last clip in the OP's video, the hit marker on the target appears at the same time as when the targets screen turns red. Meaning while the camera is ahead of the player model, once both players are in view of each other, neither has the advantage (unless ofc the player turning the corner shot first)
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jan 11, 2013 10:27:04 GMT -5
I do not expect or want any COD to be competitive or serious or lag-free or fair or balanced.
In BO2 Activision and 3arc are targeting 15Y old kids and probably I’ll be too old to buy the next COD game.
btw: Target Finder ..., well, heart-beat-sensor required some thinking so 3arc invented "HBS for dummies"..... changing guns in AC130 was too complicated, so we have a Lodestar = "AC130 for dummies" .... so many examples ...
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 11, 2013 10:59:23 GMT -5
I played split screen with my bro in law for 8 days... logging about 16-20 hours of game time and custom matches to try different class setups ... all at different times of the day but usually at night from about 8 to 10.
There was nothing out of the ordinary that makes me want to state it was absurd or anything.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 11, 2013 10:59:25 GMT -5
Wow, I wouldn't have expected toys to agree with IW seeing as how toys spends so much time trying to get a competitive edge over other people And I personally don't agree. I think games can be competitive at a very high level.The entire premise to soccer is shooting a ball in a net. Nothing more too it. See, just did the same thing I don't really care for competitive gaming (though it does stimulate a certain degree of quality to mp games. that's nice) but I do acknowledge it excisting. Mind sports are sports too I think you are missing my point. The author of the above video did too. I'm not saying 'mind' games can't be competitive. In fact, video 'games' like CoD as well as games like Chutes & Ladders can be very competitive. Competitive, is a mindset, describing the 'effort' in regards to how you play. If you get a CoD game going where both sides are battling it out to win, that game can be as competitive as anything out there, both sides going at it with tons of effort to win. But where the author goes astray, off the rails so to speak, is when he starts trying to make CoD game something they aren't. You can't take the above board/video game level of 'competition', and then force that into the real of REAL athletic competition. Video games, are always going to be 'games' at the end of the day. VIDEO GAMES. It's apples to oranges. A video game is never going to be able to be held to the same standards as say an NFL football game. Or even something like a boxing match. So to call people (like myself) who can enjoy and appreciate CoD's version of 'competitiveness', call us 'children', ....makes him a douchebag. And CoD is fair. Even with a the lag. Almost every game i play, the better team/side wins. That's fair. In gaming terms, without splitting hairs, it's fair enough to be on the level of other video games, for most intents and purposes. the author of the video takes far out fringe elements of MLG events, that 0.0001% of the community, and then blows things out of proportion about the unfairness of CoD compared to other games like Quake. Ridiculous.
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Pentaza
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Post by Pentaza on Jan 12, 2013 4:25:46 GMT -5
Does anyone know if split screen lag is evident in any other FPS games? If it's unique to BOII (or CoD), then that's shockingly bad coding. (I can't see how this would be an intentional "feature".)
While it might be difficult to prove that network lag is added on top of split screen lag, I think there's a decent probability that this is the case. With the inherent physical limitations of networks, you'd think the development team would strive to make sure there weren't any other issues, such that we're left with only the networking problems that are a feature of nature.
I'm hoping Drift0r picks this one up and makes an In Depth video about it so that it gets wider publicity, such that it might get fixed.
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Post by brutalonslaught on Jan 12, 2013 5:25:13 GMT -5
Alright benders, haven't been here for a while.
This is a well known "issue", if the camera wasn't like this campers would have an obscene advantage and no-one would ever move.
But that's why I get in your grill and abuse you for being so fucking stupid as to think TTKs are relevant. There are so many other things which affect it and millisecond advantages during a "perfect" shot are irrelevant. Hopefully this kind of post will help the disabled members of this forum understand that.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Jan 12, 2013 7:10:11 GMT -5
2. If it is there in MP, it's not imparting an 'unfair' advantage, it's just imparting a CONSISTENT, predictable advantage for players who move in this game. There is a huge difference in wording there, that people don't get. If you are aggressive, moving, taking the initiative...all things equal (setting aside 10 to 500ms lag swings), the guy moving will always have an advantage. That's not unfair. That's just predictable. You don't like it? Then move. That's how this game plays. That doesn't affect competitiveness. There's more to it than just moving, though. Moving alone doesn't give you much of an advantage, it's specific things like turning corners or entering different rooms/areas that gives you an advantage. You and your enemy could both be rushing towards the same corner from opposite sides and the first one that turns will kill the other in most gun fights. This is also a disadvantage for players who try retreating or are being chased. We all know how annoying it is when you turn the corner but still die to someone behind you. Of course this will always happen when playing online but having unnecessary local latency just makes it worse. I do understand what you are getting at with the consistent advantage. Everyone can benefit under certain conditions. But why deal with something like this in the first place? It just adds more 'luck' to the game, even for rushers.
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Post by brutalonslaught on Jan 12, 2013 13:36:22 GMT -5
Honestly, if they changed this the way you wanted it to be you would excrete your own liver in rage.
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