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Post by RageHulkSmash on Jan 13, 2013 8:36:58 GMT -5
1. What the OP is claiming to be a broken camera system/model in split screen, imparting 20 to 400 millisecond advantages to the guy who is moving (over the stationary person)....is this something only unique to split-screening? Is there a way to test this out in the multiplayer, so that we can know if it exists there too? Right now, that shouldn't be assumed it's there too. I guess one way to check would be to do the same test in private match with a friend hosting. Though, you still only see the lag comp between the splitscreeners this way. The only other way I can think of is using two system/tv setups next to each other and recording both with a camcorder in private match.
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Post by meznard on Jan 14, 2013 10:19:32 GMT -5
Even if the delay is a little more than we're used to, It seems to work in a reverse way as well.
I've died countless times where I know that I made it behind cover, but watching the kill cam, I'm "almost" behind cover
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Jan 14, 2013 15:17:30 GMT -5
That's because of client side hit detection which is in all of them But if local lag comp is adding more delay and making it worse, then wth. I was under the assumption that client side hit detection was purely affected by online latency only.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Jan 14, 2013 16:39:09 GMT -5
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GoHarvard
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Post by GoHarvard on Jan 15, 2013 1:50:59 GMT -5
This video reminds me of how it isn't as easy to get kills by corner tactical loitering on this game. In previous COD's it was usually a high % kill if the rushing player didn't strafe + pre fire. It's a crap shoot now. The rushing player can sprint past the corner, realize someone is there, turn, aim, shoot and insta kill - all the while the camper looks like a frozen dear. Maybe they intended it to be this way because people complain so much about campers.
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Post by parryhotter on Jan 15, 2013 15:14:07 GMT -5
Not sure how many other people have "felt" this since BO1.
I'm no networking guru, and who knows if his test is scientifically sound, but this info coupled with my general experiences since BLOPS 1 confirm that this is a "laggy piece of doo-doo".
You better believe I remember getting laggy games in Cod4 and MW2, where hosts and those with excellent ping could kill me before I had a chance to react. But unless they were as good or better than me it wasn't game breaking. And, I could adopt tactics (which were still FUN ) which could combat the problem. Plus, when I had host, or played on a close local host, I could absolutely WRECK teams.
Yeah, this probably sounds selfish, but on the other hand I think it's selfish for other players with poor internet to want the playing field leveled. Yeah, sure, everybody gets to play with roughly the same ping. But when that base ping level is over 200 ms? Foxtrotting ridiculous. Anybody here play CS back in the day when most players still had dial up ? Game was awesome, but that doesn't mean I want to travel back in time to relive those days with a 250 ms connection.
Lets say i have host 1/3 of the time, a good connection 1/3 of the time, and am at a disadvantage to the host (and the whole other team) 1/3 of the time. Then for 2/3 of the time I'm either going to wreck or not even notice any ping issues at all. 1/3 of the time I'll notice it, and some of those games won't be very fun because I won't be able to compete very well. But, still some of those 1/3 games will be completely playable, because AT WORST it will feel like every game being played right now on BLOPS 2.
I guess I just mean I don't want to feel a disconnect between what I'm seeing and what is actually happening. Instant deaths, and 'holy crap how does he have such fast reaction time' just make me feel like not playing. Old days, you could just try to find a new lobby (AFTER THE GAME ENDED !!!) and try again. Now, there's just no point because I'm always playing in a lagfest.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Jan 15, 2013 17:20:11 GMT -5
copy+paste mousey.
the difference in COD4/5 lag and everything else is that you could load up 2 hit kill weapons in cod4/5 and simply pre-fire at all times. you still die a lot, but you've got 30 round mags, bullets that penetrate EVERYTHING with lots of damage, penetrate as many people as you care to line up. so you could *deal* with the lag much better provided you stuck to CQB & medium range and were NOT not fighting someone with a good connection at long range.
plus there was near constant UAV coverage and people were not "silent".
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Post by parryhotter on Jan 15, 2013 18:00:04 GMT -5
copy+paste mousey. the difference in COD4/5 lag and everything else is that you could load up 2 hit kill weapons in cod4/5 and simply pre-fire at all times. you still die a lot, but you've got 30 round mags, bullets that penetrate EVERYTHING with lots of damage, penetrate as many people as you care to line up. so you could *deal* with the lag much better provided you stuck to CQB & medium range and were NOT not fighting someone with a good connection at long range. plus there was near constant UAV coverage and people were not "silent". So then, what is wrong with this system? I'm interpreting what you're saying as "the lag is the same in all games". But you even state that I can deal with it better in the old system. So why fix what ain't broke ? If the limitation is crappy internet connections here in the U.S. then the developers need to try to work to maximize what we've got rather than try to optimize for a situation we're not currently in. In my opinion though, long range combat was much less effected by lag than CQB, which brought with it all the corner/cover/prone abuse as seen in the videos.
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Post by parryhotter on Jan 15, 2013 18:02:35 GMT -5
Really though, for me its a moot point. I had way more fun in Cod4 than in any others. And it's been a mostly steady decline since then
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Jan 15, 2013 18:45:33 GMT -5
Didn't play CoD4 Didn't play WaW MW2 was amazing at the time BO was disappointing at first, but I've since come to appreciate the things it did right MW3 was the lowest point for me... probably mostly due to unrealistic expectations, tbh
I've been enjoying BOII a great deal. If it wasn't for the regrettable approach to netcode, it would be the best Call of Duty experience yet, all things considered. (More maps that were better would be nice, too.)
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Post by bucket415 on Jan 16, 2013 7:30:36 GMT -5
The lag is different. The game problems are different. All the complaints on the previous games were balance related. Hosts used to have an advantage....now since BLOPS 1 the lag, "lag comp", frame rate issues, etc are far and away WORSE. I've played thousands of hours of this shit. It's super apparent.
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Post by bucket415 on Jan 16, 2013 13:06:53 GMT -5
Who looks at it that way? A legit death is a legit death. SP, Jugg, etc have nothing to do with being put a half a second plus behind other players in the game. They have nothing to do with frame rate freezes when a enemy is near you. You can tell somthing is off when its lag or artificial lag or frame rate issues. When the jugg hit marker pops up, you might question the players sexuality, but you're not cursing the game for being broken. These last few games have been broken. (At least on PS3, which has the worst of it.) It simply does not function properly, at a connection level, in terms of how the game ran on COD4, W@W and MW2.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Jan 16, 2013 13:43:49 GMT -5
When the jugg hit marker pops up, you might question the players sexuality Win
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Jan 16, 2013 14:23:55 GMT -5
I'm sure we wouldve had people complaining about lag if they didn't have stopping power, jugg, or sonicboom to blame it on. Not true. Going back to those games, you have about 20 milliseconds delay on top of your ping AT THE MAXIMUM. In Black Ops 2, you have about 200 milliseconds delay on top of your ping ON AVERAGE. The MAJORITY of the delays we experience in Black Ops 2 is the lag comp delaying everything beyond the point of any reason, often adding twice our ping on top of our actual ping -- making a 75 ping connection feel like a 250 ping connection in CoD4. Worst of all: YOU CANNOT use cover to your advantage anymore, unless you came from cover and fired 3 rounds before immediately returning to cover. Case of point: You are in the open, and cannot see anyone. You see an enemy rounding a corner JUST as you get behind cover, 30 meters away from this player. Now. He has a 250 millisecond delay (his ping is only 50, but the game adds an absurd delay for smoothing) You have a 250 millisecond delay (your ping is only 50, but the game adds an absurd delay for smoothing. In essence, that means that he rounded the corner a quarter second ago on his screen. He sees you a quarter second BEFORE you round the corner on YOUR SCREEN. Meaning that he has already seen you for a quarter second, and have time to aim down his sights and fire at you, while you linger a quarter second behind in the open before you round the corner on his screen -- more than enough time for him to kill you. This KILLS you. IT KILLS anyone who does not abuse the system. You CANNOT escape. You SHOULD ALWAYS be behind cover and ALWAYS move into the open, and ALWAYS return to cover IMMEDIATELY after exposing yourself and not seeing someone you can take advantage of. It's horrible. Example 2: You fire 20 rounds blindly at a corner and return to cover. An opponent not on your screen enters your line of fire just as you stop shooting, and shoot you dead while you're behind cover. He actually walked into your line of fire, stupidly, but did not get hit: You do not hit him because you fired before he entered your line of fire -- even though he could STAND in your rain of bullets AND KILL YOU on his screen!! Nothing like this would have happened in CoD4 unless playing across continents, because the delays are much smaller. ... In fact, the only thing they needed to fix was matchmaking, so that europeans didn't always have to play against americans on american hosts or vice versa. They could've added client hit detection, too, and used lag compensation solely for positioning of players and cutting away redundant actions from dead players, ensuring that people don't kill eachother all the time.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Jan 16, 2013 14:36:44 GMT -5
There's no way of knowing 20ms was the max artificial ping. Those games could have had the same 100-200ms artificial ping around launch but got patched up.
They do multiple lag/latency patches for every cod game so you can't compare a two month old game with three to four year old games.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Jan 16, 2013 14:59:59 GMT -5
I'm just over it at this point. More times than not, I do escape. I kill opposing players behind cover, and when I die, it's still more often than not because I put myself in a bad position or my aim was off. Yes, it's not a good approach to the netcode, I have no idea why they took that route, they should just copy/paste MW2's, blah, blah, blah. It's far outside the realm of what should be considered competitive, and shame on 3arc. Thing is, we're all playing the same game, and we all have to deal with the same BS. Good players are still stomping bad ones. Everyone knows about the problem, and it's time to start getting good kids instead of being limp d1ck pvssy f@gs about it. Baseline delay? It's not what we wanted, but it's what we're stuck with.
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adw1983
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Post by adw1983 on Jan 16, 2013 15:28:27 GMT -5
The problem is, when a REAL GAME COMES OUT -- I don't want to be like a leper and expect massive advantages whenever I round a corner, nor do I want to be paranoid about moving out from cover or moving away from an area because if an enemy comes, he will have up to half a second of pidgeon-shooting at me before I'm actually in safety.
1: I'm there on my screen. An enemy sees me on his screen. 2: I'm not there on my screen. The enemy is fully sighted and has shot enough shots to kill. 3: I die far behind the cover. My body is teleported back to the corner.
I see an enemy, but I'm reloading, so I back up. I get hit, but he's not in my screen and I continue to back up, and he continues to hit me and kills me while he's not in my screen. All the time he's not in my screen, the whole of him is visible for me in the killcam at all time and I'm fully exposed to him on his screen, and look like an idiot on the killcam.
Sure, I can just take an SMG with lightweight and just win games by abusing the system, but once again: Winning by abusing the lag does not make me a better player. On the contrary, it will only make me a worse player, and my real life reflexes are blunted like a sword used to break stones.
I'm not stuck with it, because I've quit. It ruins my skills, reflexes and mind.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Jan 16, 2013 16:20:42 GMT -5
Well, then, the problem is solved.
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