has the famas and m16 been changed as well?

[playn]

do you reckon they have? ive been finding it a LOT harder to kill with them now

a few days ago i was using the silenced famas w/ thermal sight and it was taking about 2-3 bursts to kill at medium range right in the chest/stomach. whereas a week ago it would be 1burst kill from pretty much any range

then today i was using the m16 and it too took about 2-3bursts to kill silenced, and this was in close range (a few bullets may of missed for this one but enough hit to ensure a kill.. or would have)

idk if its just me but they feel a lot toned down now

[xg08zero]

just played tons of games with my beloved Famas + ACOG (hate all you want I love the ACOG) and I haven't felt a difference - still strong as ever.

prob just a bad day

[juice]

I sprayed walls yesterday to test the bullet spray of the famas and M16, and it seems like every couple bursts or so, one of the bullets will go way off. Is this recoil always been there? I thought FAMAS was always a laser like the ACR....

[toad]

I was using the Famas with the ACOG the other day and it was terrible! I could swear all 3 bullets were hitting and I was using Stopping Power, but no kills!

When back to the iron sights + silencer + Cold Blooded for my stealth setup and it was awesome. Perhaps something a bit dodgy going on with the ACOG and this weapon?

[mannon]

ACOG increases recoil which could potentially widen the spread of the burst some. But since the burst happens so fast it's done before the recoil puts you very far off target and even if the kick pushes further it won't impact the burst spread unless it actually moves faster.

ACOG does not affect damage, though. In core the only way to not kill with 1 burst is if 1 or more bullets miss or penetrate something first, reducing damage, or if the other player has Painkiller.

Still no patch on xbox, though. So I couldn't say for sure if there's any change or not. I doubt it unless they increased recoil or something.

[ssog]

Dec 22, 2009 3:49:49 GMT -5 juice said:

I sprayed walls yesterday to test the bullet spray of the famas and M16, and it seems like every couple bursts or so, one of the bullets will go way off. Is this recoil always been there? I thought FAMAS was always a laser like the ACR....

The FAMAS and M16 have recoil that falls about halfway between the SCAR and the M4. So not only is the ACR more accurate, but the M4 is, as well.

[kcpwnsgman]

I'm surprised no one has noticed the issues with lag and dropped shots, frequently i see the m16 or famas (or just m16 in cod4) kill me with one bullet, even though technically its two at the same second at the same location.

When I use them I either get the 3 shots doing normal damage, one or two shots doing pseudo increased damage to compensate for lag, or I land all the shots multiple times (3 hit indicators in each burst, landing multiple bursts) and they still live.

they are way too inconsistent when it takes anywhere from 1-6+ shots to kill someone :\

[bobysk8]

i felt the m16 being a bit weaker yestarday, i just put it down to me missing though, not sure it was frustrating tho

[mannon]

I haven't had any problems with the FAM16. I've been working on ACR and UMP and thus not using either, but I ran out of ammo on my UMP AA class and couldn't OMA to switch so I picked up an M16 and it felt the same as always... point, click, they die.

I've generally only gotten phantom hits that did not kill whenever firing on someone that killed me immediately after, and the simple explanation is they killed me before my shots made it to the Host, which is easy to verify via the kill cam. As for killing in fewer rounds it is more likely that the extremely fast burst is simply resulting in both hits arriving to the Host and then to your client so quickly that they appear to happen simultaneously on your end. The shots happen in a tiny fraction of a second, much faster than the game attempts to send packets to the Host or from the Host to you.

[toad]

Mannon - I was playing yesterday on Scrapyard, when I got a rediculous kill against me! Maybe you can explain? The enemy was in one of the metal bunkers, I was close to the entrance, and could see him looking at me. As I was re-loading, I quickly ran to his right, out of view, and I died like a whole second after I thought I was out of view. It was a head shot too, with the Famas I think. I watched the replay... It showed him seeing me, it clearly showed me run away from his view, actually out of sight. It showed him fire a burst from the hip close to the edge of the bunker, where I was briefly standing, and it was a kill.

If it even showed me out of sight on the replay, is it possible that the replay isn't actually what he saw? I.e., the replay in this instance was more what I would expect to see, as I was positive I moved out of his line of fire. Normally the replays I watch show me just standing there looking dumb when I get shot. LOL. But this instance was like the other way around. Weird.

[mannon]

I've actually been wondering what get's used for the replays and this would seem to fit a theory I have that the replay is simply the sequence of events from the Host's point of view. If that is the case then what happened was he probably shot you on his end just before or as you started running and got a lucky headshot with his hipfire before you had really moved much on his end which is delayed even more than the Host.

For the replay, however, the Host simply shows things from it's own point of view and you move sooner, but since the lag compensation still results in a hit and kill it shows you getting hit and killed after you moved.

In order to actually show things from the enemy's point of view the Host would have to go back and compensate for the delay between it and the killing player or actually request the replay from the killing player's client to play it from his point of view.

My feeling is that IW took the easier path and let the Host simply replay things from it's own point of view. This also explains the many times you will see killing shots in the replays which appear that they should have been a miss. If the target was moving there is potential for the replay of the target's position to get out of sync from both player's perspectives.

This is just theory of course, but it would seem to fit what we know of the netcode. Prediction could still fix a lot of the desynchronization in a lot of cases, though, too, and I have no way of knowing or testing how much prediction MW2 uses. It obviously uses some otherwise enemies would move very jerkily, but again too much would also result in some quirks.

[toad]

Interesting stuff!

I must admit, it's not the first time this sort of thing has happened to me. I've had a few instances where you KNOW you've moved into cover, but they still get you. Replay 99% of the time shows you getting hit before you move, BUT, I've now had a couple of these reverse scenarios, where the replay actually back your own point of view, and clearly shows you getting out the way before the shot is fired.

[mannon]

Probably more likely to happen when your killer has a high ping and isn't getting your movement data from the Host very quickly. Additionally if you are the host then the replay should practically be things from your point of view, though he still aims and hits from his point of view which could result in his aimed shots appearing to miss but still resulting in hit markers and kills in the replay, theoretically. ;p

I think it seems to explain some replay wonkiness I've observed, though.

[king631]

Okay... slightly off topic, but... I just got a text messagae that there was patch today on the 360. Can anyone confirm? If so, same changes I would assume?

[mannon]

Yeah looks like the patch that had already hit PC finally hit XBL.

[toad]

Thanks for the explanations mannon.