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Post by Marvel4 on Feb 8, 2013 4:34:04 GMT -5
Standard: 1.020 On SMGs: 1.015
This probably modifies adsViewKickCenterSpeedScale...
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Post by lalaca on Feb 8, 2013 4:44:07 GMT -5
So we are to understand that as... a 2% increase to centerspeed? :?
Provided that's the right variable it modifies. ._.;;
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Feb 8, 2013 4:47:31 GMT -5
lold
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Feb 8, 2013 5:52:54 GMT -5
What's probably more hilarious is the ACOG gives another 2% bonus on ARs and LMGs...
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Feb 8, 2013 6:34:57 GMT -5
So a 2% increase on ARs and LMGs, and 1.5% increase on SMGs? Subtle. I think we found our problem.
Thanks for the data Marvel4.
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Amirror
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Post by Amirror on Feb 8, 2013 6:36:40 GMT -5
What's probably more funny is the ACOG gives another 2% bonus on ARs and LMGs... ACOG does the same thing for ARs and LMGs as grip does? If that's true, then ARs and LMGs can combine Grip + ACOG for a total of a 4% increase in viewkick centerspeed (I think). Still, that's pretty subtle.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Feb 8, 2013 6:49:46 GMT -5
Yep. I kinda miss those +400 center speed grips from mw2...
Come to think of it, I vaguely remember a member on this forum saying the grip only increases center speed by 2% back when BO2 released but we all blew it off like it was false lol.
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Post by lalaca on Feb 8, 2013 6:50:22 GMT -5
Funny; ACOG used to increase recoil in previous games by decreasing centerspeed.
I guess in this game it increases centerspeed to make up for the increase in visual recoil that the higher zoom provides.
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Post by KingVaroon on Feb 8, 2013 7:59:07 GMT -5
I wish we knew where to look to see how the game mathematically uses that value
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Post by -3055- on Feb 8, 2013 8:00:53 GMT -5
It probably doesn't...
"2%? That's it? Fuck that, I ain't changing shit"
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Post by iw5000 on Feb 8, 2013 10:09:20 GMT -5
I use grip on a number of weapons. It feels like it helps, so i use it.
I also have an indirect sort of test I did with it not long ago. When my stats accidentally reset a week or so ago....i ended up starting from scratch. And when I did with the PDW, I used nothing but Grip and Long Barrell as my main attachments. After about 50 levels or so...my accuracy on the PDW was about 2pts higher than it was prior to the reset.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 8, 2013 11:04:55 GMT -5
Oh Treyarch....
it really seems like they tried to follow the whole BF3 philosophy with attachments in this game, where a gun with a particular attachment has absolutely no advantage over the same gun with no attachments at all. The funny thing is they cost you 1 out of your 10 points. I mean look at ext mags - not only do you get only a 25-33% increase mag size compared to the old 50%, you also have a 10% reload time penalty to pay for that small capacity increase. So you have practically a net gain of 0.
How the hell is extended mags, select fire, rapid fire, or a 1.5% increase in centerspeed the same value to your class as the actual primary weapon itself? The only attachments actually worth a whole point in this game are the Laser Sight, Suppressor, and Target Finder. And maybe the Long Barrel, but that's pushing it because it should have been 25%.
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Post by iw5000 on Feb 8, 2013 11:35:02 GMT -5
So what's the conclusion of the story? If most all attachments are weak, is it better to go without any on a gun, go naked....and then load up on perks and/or grenades?
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moses
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Post by moses on Feb 8, 2013 12:07:47 GMT -5
I mean look at ext mags - not only do you get only a 25-33% increase mag size compared to the old 50%, you also have a 10% reload time penalty to pay for that small capacity increase. So you have practically a net gain of 0. How the hell is extended mags, select fire, rapid fire, or a 1.5% increase in centerspeed the same value to your class as the actual primary weapon itself? The only attachments actually worth a whole point in this game are the Laser Sight, Suppressor, and Target Finder. And maybe the Long Barrel, but that's pushing it because it should have been 25%. Extended Mags gives a big benefit to some guns, like the 30 ammo guns. It reliably adds the ability to handle another foe in multi--man engagements, and gives you some spray leeway if it's needed - though rare it does help in some fights. It's not very logical to say a 50% increase in capacity is equal in strength to a 10% reload speed reduction; it's a situational bonus, which can't be measured directly. Apples and oranges. Most attachments ARE doo-doo and aren't worth the CaC point or even the slot for an attachment, but surely you can see merit in Stock, Quickdraw, EM, and in some cases Fast Mags.
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Post by bucket415 on Feb 8, 2013 12:29:05 GMT -5
Oh Treyarch.... it really seems like they tried to follow the whole BF3 philosophy with attachments in this game, where a gun with a particular attachment has absolutely no advantage over the same gun with no attachments at all. The funny thing is they cost you 1 out of your 10 points. I mean look at ext mags - not only do you get only a 25-33% increase mag size compared to the old 50%, you also have a 10% reload time penalty to pay for that small capacity increase. So you have practically a net gain of 0. How the hell is extended mags, select fire, rapid fire, or a 1.5% increase in centerspeed the same value to your class as the actual primary weapon itself? The only attachments actually worth a whole point in this game are the Laser Sight, Suppressor, and Target Finder. And maybe the Long Barrel, but that's pushing it because it should have been 25%. You forgot stock & quickdraw.
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Post by mw2baller on Feb 8, 2013 12:48:36 GMT -5
attachments are fine imo. The only ones I can think of as being utter shit are grip, RDS, holo sight, RF, SF (except on FAL), hybrid, and acog (except on snipers). Basically grip, all sights that don't do anything cool, and the fire rate modification attachments. Every other attachment has a clear use that helps. Extended mags and fast mags are both useful on certain guns. For example the type 25 typically gives me 2 kills per mag. With EM it's 3, so I can comfortably kill 3 people without having to duck behind cover and reload before killing the third. Quick reloads are supposed to help during gunfights or between them. Considering that most guns kill in like half a second at most (after accuracy), giving yourself a 0.5-1 second advantage can help a lot.
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Post by wg4f on Feb 8, 2013 12:53:36 GMT -5
I'd say the top tier ones are quickdraw, stock, mms, and silencer. Honorable mentions to akimbo, long barrel, laser, exmags, and Skill Cannon for being far more situational (silencer i guess is too) but definitely useful on some weapons. Does mms lower recenter speed?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Feb 8, 2013 12:57:04 GMT -5
I'd say the top tier ones are quickdraw, stock, mms, and silencer. Honorable mentions to akimbo, long barrel, laser, exmags, and Skill Cannon for being far more situational (silencer i guess is too) but definitely useful on some weapons. Does mms lower recenter speed? That's a good question that I would like to know the answer as well. I mainly use MMS on PDW and lately I feel that with MMS the weapon does "appear" to have a bit more recoil.
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Post by Marvel4 on Feb 8, 2013 13:07:53 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Feb 8, 2013 13:19:23 GMT -5
Advanced bros probably find sights useless, but I like Reflex/EOTech/Hybrid and I think that they provide significant help to mediocre players like me.
Specifically:
1) I really enjoy BO2's reticule design. They not only have different shapes, but more importantly, different colors. To me personally the color aspect is quite important.
Also the functional ones (i.e.: not the high level unlocks like mustache, skull, etc) has good transparency designs that make them useful but not intrusive.
For Reflex: my favorite is the yellow drop shot. For EOTech: my favorite is the green cross.
2) Although the majority of the BO2 weapons have decent iron sight, there are a few exceptions. For me personally, the iron sights on Chicom and FAL are preventing me from making good long shots. After putting EOTech on, the difference in long shots ability feel like night and day.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Feb 8, 2013 13:46:06 GMT -5
Rofl at 2% increase.
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Post by Morshu on Feb 8, 2013 13:57:47 GMT -5
This perfectly demonstrates the point I trying to make back in my dried out thread. Almost everything has become so subtle there is hardly anyway to differ your playstyle from anything other than point and shoot.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Feb 8, 2013 14:01:16 GMT -5
So what's the conclusion of the story? If most all attachments are weak, is it better to go without any on a gun, go naked....and then load up on perks and/or grenades? yes. Basically its much more effective to stockpile perks and equipment than attachments.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 8, 2013 14:21:31 GMT -5
This perfectly demonstrates the point I trying to make back in my dried out thread. Almost everything has become so subtle there is hardly anyway to differ your playstyle from anything other than point and shoot. Thats what CoD is. When we had shit like Commando, SoH Pro, SP, Juggernoob, Second Chance, etc... perks decided the outcomes more than the players did.
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Post by drift0r on Feb 8, 2013 16:50:05 GMT -5
Marvel4, Mousey, or really anyone that knows:
Are the attachments stackable? Just looking at the stat charts says ACOG and Grip have the same effect. What if you used both of them? Double the effect? So would that be a 4% increase or still just 2% total?
Also, I'm going to give the good old wall tests a go again with ACOG+Grip vs. the same gun with a silencer. Considering the changes are so small it's highly unlikely anything would show like the MW2/3 patterns. Any gun recommendations? I was just looking at the MTAR and AN94.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 8, 2013 16:56:52 GMT -5
Marvel4, Mousey, or really anyone that knows: Are the attachments stackable? Just looking at the stat charts says ACOG and Grip have the same effect. What if you used both of them? Double the effect? So would that be a 4% increase or still just 2% total? Also, I'm going to give the good old wall tests a go again with ACOG+Grip vs. the same gun with a silencer. Considering the changes are so small it's highly unlikely anything would show like the MW2/3 patterns. Any gun recommendations? I was just looking at the MTAR and AN94. Our best guess is that the multipliers stack multiplicatively. For example, with the ACOG and Grip, an assault rifle will get a centerspeed increase of 1.02*1.02 = 1.0404, or 4.04%. Also, I think I'll have my recoil plots updated to include attachment combinations by sometime tonight if you want to use those as a reference.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 8, 2013 16:59:10 GMT -5
Have the plots show more bursts plox.
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Post by Morshu on Feb 8, 2013 17:03:08 GMT -5
Stack or not thats 2 wasted points. 2-4% centerspeed increase is lol-ably small. I really don't think its worth wasting your time making a vid out of. Maybe somewhere you can point out these stats with another vid but thats about it. Gotta keep your subscribes coming back for spicy info. The grip should be 10-15% increase in centerspeed to be somewhat useful. (Kick for mw3 was a 20% recoil reduction, HUGE difference from BO2's grip.)
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 8, 2013 17:06:45 GMT -5
Have the plots show more bursts plox. Wrong thread . I'm doing an update as we speak, though. I'll take that request into consideration.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 8, 2013 17:08:37 GMT -5
Stack or not thats 2 wasted points. 2-4% centerspeed increase is lol-ably small. I really don't think its worth wasting your time making a vid out of. Maybe somewhere you can point out these stats with another vid but thats about it. Gotta keep your subscribes coming back for spicy info. The grip should be 10-15% increase in centerspeed to be somewhat useful. (Kick for mw3 was a 20% recoil reduction, HUGE difference from BO2's grip.) It's worth making a video about for precisely these reasons. The fact that the gain in CenterSpeed is relatively smaller compared to previous titles confirms what everyone believed to be true about the Grip attachment.
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