Shotgun discussion

[Q*Bert]

Hey, long time lurker, first time poster. I'd like to know your experiences with all the shotguns. I have Modern Warfare 2 for the Xbox 360 so I do not have the Winchester update. Did the update effectively balance them?

Also does anyone know the draw times? Besides the flip-cock animation I noticed that some shotguns pull out faster than others. I been using akimbo Rangers recently and they feel like they pull out the fastest. Why do they do the most damage? If you have to be that close for them to even hit marker, doesn't that make them out-classed against the AA12? It has more ammo, slightly more range and more attachments. Anyone know why Rangers lead the way?

You are my bro, bro.

[cptmacmillan]

Rangers vs. AA12: both fire extremely fast, however one has 8mag and one has 4 shots. Rangers have a quicker reload, more backup ammo, and far more damage plus put out the first two shots even faster than the AA12 (at the same time vs. in quick succession). AA12 is on the other end of the spectrum with the lowest damage of any shotgun, making it take 2 or 3 shots often. AA12s variety of attachments are mostly useless.

[Den]

For PC, reducing the range of the 1887 Akimbo has made its almost non-existent overnight.
There are now a lot of players using almost every other shotgun from the SPAS to the M1014.
Akimbo Ranger looks to be taking over in the 1887's stead as the one-hit (or... two-hits-at-the-same-time) wonder.
Overall, all of the shotguns are now getting some showtime.

Getting the Drop and Raise time of weapons is trickier than the rate of fire since one is always paired with another and the exact moment they change is out of view.
Approximations will be much more loose than what could be done with the Rate of Fire.

There are other things to consider, such as the "FirstRaiseTime" of some weapons being different than all following RaiseTimes, like taking the cap off of the Javelin and flipping the safety on the PP2000.
There are also different times when switching between a weapon and equipment, then back to the weapon, or the QuickRaise and QuickDrop times.
And Primaries will use QuickDropTime when switching to a handgun but normal RaiseTime when going back to the primary.

I'm only just starting my third prestige (since more Custom Slots means less exiting a Private Match to change them) but so far for shotguns, it appears that it takes about :

0.85 to 0.9 seconds to both Drop and Raise the SPAS.
0.8 seconds to Raise and 0.7 seconds to Drop the AA-12.

Oh yeah, not on the chart yet, the AA-12 has a fireTime of 0.15.
400 Rounds Per Minute.

[Q*Bert]

I can't wait for the update. Anyone level 67 and over uses the Winchesters. I imagine still using it minus the akimbo. For now I have been using the AA-12. Whenever I use the Rangers, the enemy is always the exact distance to where my gun looks like confetti. So what does everyone else use and why? I'm curious to know.

[juice]

I've messed a bit with all the shotguns, and I think I like the SPAS the best. It's range is just incredible for a shotgun, and it's almost always OSK. I hate when I pull out a shotgun, and the bullets just vanish to its poor range, so its the SPAS for me.

[sleep]

Dec 22, 2009 16:58:04 GMT -5 juice said:

I've messed a bit with all the shotguns, and I think I like the SPAS the best. It's range is just incredible for a shotgun, and it's almost always OSK. I hate when I pull out a shotgun, and the bullets just vanish to its poor range, so its the SPAS for me.

agreed

[scb]

My personal preference is the Striker. Two things about me though, a) I don't aim nearly as well as I'd like, and b) I'm the type of guy who empties the gun. The Rangers are ok most of the time, but as I unconsciously pull both triggers two times, I'll find myself up a creek if I miss or there's a 2nd guy. For me, the Striker has enough oomph to 1-2 shot someone if I'm coming around a corner (I dunno, I fire like 4), yet still has so many shots left over you're not out of luck if there's a 2nd or 3rd guy (assuming you can keep yourself from reloading right away). Also, with the Striker, you have to get the Grip attachment, it's a difference of night and day.

[Indy_Bones]

Interestingly I've gone from Akimbo Rangers to using a Masterkey shottie just because of the extra flexibility it allows me with my secondary weapon.

I've always hated having to decide between a machine pistol/shotgun/launcher for my secondary, but now I just use the masterkey and have a Stinger as my secondary and get the best of both worlds.

I generally use FAM16 for weapon choice so mid-long range is great, the masterkey takes care of the short-mid range, and the Stinger as my anti-air go to. Combine this with Scavenger, CB and Ninja, and I'm a happy bunny

Indy.

[n1gh7]

Dec 22, 2009 14:51:33 GMT -5 Den said:

I'm only just starting my third prestige (since more Custom Slots means less exiting a Private Match to change them) but so far for shotguns, it appears that it takes about :

what prestiges do u get slots?

[Den]

Odd numbers for each new Custom Slot.

[ramsen]

Dec 22, 2009 17:23:13 GMT -5 Indy_Bones said:

Interestingly I've gone from Akimbo Rangers to using a Masterkey shottie just because of the extra flexibility it allows me with my secondary weapon.

I've always hated having to decide between a machine pistol/shotgun/launcher for my secondary, but now I just use the masterkey and have a Stinger as my secondary and get the best of both worlds.

I generally use FAM16 for weapon choice so mid-long range is great, the masterkey takes care of the short-mid range, and the Stinger as my anti-air go to. Combine this with Scavenger, CB and Ninja, and I'm a happy bunny

Indy.

I tried doing this with my FAMAS, but it seemed too weak without stopping power and steady aim. At that point the FAMAS was a better close range weapon just firing from the hip so I gave it up. What set up are you using with it?

[bobysk8]

on ps3, im still encountering quite a few 1887's, and they still do awefully well, but there clearly not as strong or long ranged as before.
Encountered a guy tactical loitering with akimbo rangers earlier, very annoying.

I tend to prefer pistols due to the tactical knife and quicker switch (you really notice it after using machine pistols as well)

[toad]

If you have a setup with Stopping Power, the Spas-12 is excellent. However, without stopping power, it's ability is hindered quite considerably IMO. I like using the M1014 with a fast moving setup. Its ability to fire off 4 shots in a shorter time than the Spas-12 can fire a second has saved me numerous times.

[Indy_Bones]

Dec 22, 2009 21:52:11 GMT -5 ramsen said:

I tried doing this with my FAMAS, but it seemed too weak without stopping power and steady aim. At that point the FAMAS was a better close range weapon just firing from the hip so I gave it up. What set up are you using with it?

FAMAS with Shotgun Attachment
Stinger
Semtex
Stun Grenade
Scavenger Pro
Cold Blooded Pro
Ninja/Last Stand Pro

I find the FAMAS to be highy accurate with the initial 1-2 bursts which means game over for the opponent assuming you can aim straight. It should just take a single burst to put them down - stopping power or not. The main time I find it takes 2 bursts is either at extreme long range (unless I get lucky with a HS), or sometimes when a player is moving quickly from left to right as they somehow seem to move out of the way of one of the bullets...

The stotgun attachment is an easy OHK at close range, but has the advantage of more range compared to other options giving it more versatility at the expense of damage at a longer range.

Other than that it's not a problem. Positioning is a key factor however, and I don't feel the FAMAS is the right choice for a more traditional hip-firing run-and-gunner.

There's no reason you couldn't change Cold Blooded for Stopping Power, but I find it suits my playstyle far more.

Hope this helps

Indy.

[mannon]

I generally prefer CB to SP myself, although with a FAMAS I tend to favor SP for the long range 1 burst kill potential as I like fighting at range. It also cuts the TTK in half at close range and eliminates those annoying 1 hit miss no kills. It's nearly impossible to not kill with a burst when using SP unless you miss completely. But by that same token it actually makes the FAM16 pretty decent for close range fighting.

It won't be so good for run and gunning, however, because it's far too easy to miss your first shot if both you and your opponent are juking and dodging each other.

A shotgun attachment might be better for run and gunning, but it will function similar to the burst fire anyway, being high damage low ROF, the only real benefit seems to be that it would not require as tight of aim. That might do in a pinch.

An alternative would be to pack a silencer on your FAM16 and use Ninja so that in CQC they don't know where you are until it's too late and your burst kills very quickly. You could do that with either SP or CB, depending on your play style. If you don't psudo-snipe with it then you don't really need SP, although I personally do still enjoy the improved lethality and faster TTK. SP also means that you'll do more penetration damage which could be useful if you're running around with ninja and have good hearing/speakers/sound system, though the FAM16 is definitely sub optimal for wall spraying.

It is, however, very good at penetration kills when you know exactly where the guy is. Like if you just see little bits like the top of his head or the tip of his gun poking out of cover but not enough to get a headshot. You can just aim for where you think is centermass and let the burst do the work.

I think I'm more inclined to try the Masterkey on my lower damage AR's that don't perform too well at close range. My ACR with CB for example. I almost never use SP on it since getting one more bullet is generally not hard to do with it's accuracy, but in close quarters the TTK is definitely a bit lacking. And considering I'm running with OMA a lot lately I don't even have the option of using a secondary.

However, the tube just seems more versatile, still has a fast CQ TTK so long as you don't miss, and I can get more ammo for it in 3 seconds. (Unlocked OMA:Pro the same night I first started using it, easy.)

[rave]

Is it just me or does it seem like the single 1887 fires faster now?

[chyros]

Dec 23, 2009 8:20:56 GMT -5 rave said:

Is it just me or does it seem like the single 1887 fires faster now?

I think it's just you . I didn't notice anything myself. But that may be me ofc.

With stopping power on, I like the SPAS-12 a lot. Without it, I'd go for a winch, striker or M1014, all of which don't really need SP as much. I can't stand Rangers myself though, range is hardly longer than a knife stab.

[chip sandwich]

I think the Striker is my favorite, closely followed by the M1014 and SPAS-12. I use the 1887 occasionally, but it tends to get me killed if I miss. I hate the AA-12 though, it always seems to take me half a clip to kill a guy. I'm not a fan of Rangers or underbarrel either.

[ecomni]

Dec 22, 2009 14:51:33 GMT -5 Den said:

For PC, reducing the range of the 1887 Akimbo has made its almost non-existent overnight.
There are now a lot of players using almost every other shotgun from the SPAS to the M1014.
Akimbo Ranger looks to be taking over in the 1887's stead as the one-hit (or... two-hits-at-the-same-time) wonder.
Overall, all of the shotguns are now getting some showtime.

Heh, as I said, all the shotguns seemed very balanced, except for akimbo 1887s.


As for main topic, Rangers have always been my go-to. I used to like the Striker, but the low damage is pretty noticeable when going up against more than one person. Now, my fav is the M1014 with SoH. I'm trying to get extended mags with it so I can possibly use it and Scavenger on my "C4 whore" class.

[mannon]

My C4 is on my Danger Close + One Man Army + Tube class. ;p Even if I didn't use OMA for any other class I think I'd keep it instead of Scavenger on that one. heh 3 Second resupply is pretty sweet, though I suppose I could drop it for Scav and pack another launcher... but with a tube I don't really need another launcher.

[explosion101]

It took me a while to realize just how far the Masterkey even shot, flew past the 87's, even before the patch.

However, at this distance it's very difficult to get kills, even with SP and Steady Aim.

I'll try using it moar often now, I'm interested in the versatility.

[ecomni]

Dec 23, 2009 14:59:29 GMT -5 mannon said:

My C4 is on my Danger Close + One Man Army + Tube class. ;p Even if I didn't use OMA for any other class I think I'd keep it instead of Scavenger on that one. heh 3 Second resupply is pretty sweet, though I suppose I could drop it for Scav and pack another launcher... but with a tube I don't really need another launcher.

Heh, my tube class uses Claymores. Better to protect your position while you're busy pro-piping.

I think Scavenger has one key role that OMA can't supplant and that is close quarters Riot Shield defense. The 3-second OMA refreshes can be very bad when upclose defending a point. And while it's not required, it is nice having a secondary with the Riot Shield, particularly a shotgun since it's all CQC. So being able to use Scavenger for extra mags on the M1014 which runs out of ammo way too fast as well being able to put C4 around the objective and resupply after kills seems like a good idea. Only around 200 more kills before I get extended mags for that. Yay?


The Masterkey seems to be a little better suited for Touch Football, but it seems completely up to chance whether you kill someone or not. Sometimes I can kill someone at a very nice SPAS/1887 range; other times they only eat one pellet and I get killed while trying to pump another shell.

[Indy_Bones]

Dec 23, 2009 14:59:29 GMT -5 mannon said:

... but with a tube I don't really need another launcher.

Which is fine if you have no interest in taking down the enemies air support, but a tube will not cut any ice against a harrier or CG.

If you're just playing FFA or similar and looking purely for the frag count, then the tube does pack a real punch in this area, but for more team based game types, being able to take down their killstreaks whilst maintaining your own ability to kill at either close or long range takes the win for me, hence the masterkey choice.

It may not be as strong as other shotgun options (Ranger etc for real damage close in), but that's the tradeoff for keeping your secondary slot free for alternatives, hell you could even run OMA with it, and switch to a class with AA options and still maintain your kill ability.

Versatility is the key for me...

[mannon]

My DangerTube class has OMA so I just switch to my AA class anytime I need to drop a harrier. I can't switch back but it's got CB and a decent weapon as well as Scavenger. I also have a separate class for claymores. I like keeping the C4 on my danger close class but I've got C4 and tactical insertion on two other OMA classes anytime I wanna setup a campsite. You can't beat OMA for versatility. ;p

I haven't been doing objectives lately so I don't have a shield class setup at the moment. I probably won't use OMA on it since for HQ I'll want blast shield and that means I can't use a throwing knife as a poor man's secondary, but I dunno. I kinda like the idea of switching from it to something more offensive once the HQ changes. But it would be harder to get to the objective and then attempt to switch to the shield without dying.

I flip flop on whether I'd rather use a shotgun or magnum on my shield. I like the quick switch of the mag, but still need to unlock akimbo. I've not really used the shotties enough to decide which I like, except not the Rangers. lol I swear you gotta be in knife range to use those.

[Q*Bert]

Does FMJ increase the range of the the shotguns? The 360 just got the update and testing on highrise, I discovered that akimbo FMJ 1887 hit farther than a single 1887 with no attachments.

[Q*Bert]

Sorry for double post, I think there is a bug in the 360 update. The 1887 have the same range whether you use FMJ, Akimbo, or no attachments, however, if you use bling, they use their old range.

[snakex]

no, qbert look on my weapon chart, then u see it´s decrease

[Q*Bert]

This is from testing on the console. The bling 1887's have their old range.

[snakex]

i tested always on xbox360

[snakex]

all my stats based on the xbox360.
and i tested every time, when an update came out