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Post by ilikev8 on Dec 22, 2009 18:53:06 GMT -5
Would a weapon with a high ROF (M4, Vector, Uzi) be better for close range hipfiring than a weapon that has a superior TTK or damage but a slow ROF? (Scar-H, UMP .45) Would the higher rate of fire increase chances of hitting a target?
And does anybody think the Burst Firing Assault Rifles (M16/Famas) are superior at close range hipshooting than there automatic counterparts? The 3 round burst comes out at 925 RPM but there is a short delay between bursts, but if you get the first burst on them, they are good as dead, since no other AR deals that much damage, then again hipfire spread seems to be random and all luck and either the burst fails and gets you killed, or you kill everything close range if you get 2 bullets on them.
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zeebo
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Post by zeebo on Dec 22, 2009 19:15:20 GMT -5
I think it's all about personal preference. I prefer TTK > ROF in close range because I'll be spraying from hip (most likely) and if we start firing at the same time, I want them to die first (obviously).
TTK is important at med to long range too, but I really enjoy ROF at range. Most likely, your opponent will also be ADS to shoot you, the more bullets you land will cause the "damage kick" and his aim will be difficult to recover.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 22, 2009 19:56:10 GMT -5
A mixture of speed and power. The best combination of shots to kill and time between shots leads to the best Time To Kill.
But simply, the fewer shots you need to land, the better.
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Post by bobysk8 on Dec 22, 2009 22:35:23 GMT -5
i generally go for the more powerful guns up close, tar, scar etc
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Post by xenon on Dec 23, 2009 3:30:02 GMT -5
in a 1v1 situation where both shoot at the same time from the hip a higher rate of fire (Glock-18, Vector, MP5k, PP2000, TMP, M240, F2000, P90, UZI etc) together with a smaller reticle (Glock-18, Vector, MP5k, PP2000, TMP, P90, Uzi etc) let you hit more bullets (which will cause more hit-kick on your opponent which in return will reduce his overall TTK).
At this range recoil does not really matter. At all. Even F2000, AK47 or SMG+Rapid Fire will be excellent - as long as you are close enough to avoid ADS. Even akimbo shotguns or machine pistols will be viable and more or less make TTK = TTK * 0,5 - Akimbo SMGs get a much bigger reticle and will not be as efficient (except maybe at melee or melee-short range)
hard to say just how much recoil, rate of fire, reticle size, and damage per bullet effect your TTK. If we make some general assumptions and break it down into a few different ranges i would say it pan out something like this:
at melee range all your bullets will hit and TTK will be most important (pretty much knife or shotguns win with their 0.0 sec TTK).
at melee-short range even assault rifles are good for hip fire and TTK is probably still the most important and shotguns win. Hip Fire from Burst weapon will pretty much hit three random spots within the reticle. At this range SMG attachment rapid fire have a TTK = TTK*0.75 for all SMGs, the increased recoil does not matter with hip-fire but the increased rate of fire will do wonders.
at short range reticle size start to matter. smg's still hit pretty much all their bullets from the hip (TTK is uneffected, rapid fire attachment still reduce TTK by 33%) while assault rifles will start missing a few bullets (unless you got steady aim - TTK start to drop). Shotguns probably still rule.
at short-medium range shotguns, except maybe SPAS-12, start to get useless, smg's miss a few bullets which will reduce TTK a bit - unless you got steady aim - and ARs probably need to start using ADS (which further reduce TTK but the delay is cut in half by slight of hand and you can start shooting a few bullets from the hip during the animation. When you ADS things like recoil start to matter more and more).
at medium-long and at long range SMG damage drop (compared to ARs) and even with steady aim you would need to ADS. Recoil start to matter more and more at this range. Most SMGs have higher recoil than most ARs and Rapid Fire will screw your ADS recoil big time. Low recoil weapons such as FAMAS, M16A4, ACR and M4 will not get as reduced TTK as higher recoil rifles such as F2000, AK47, TAR-21 and to some extent SCAR-H.
at long-extreme range ARs drop in damage (compared to LMGs). without stopping power burst weapons require two bursts, but with stopping power FAM/16/Raffie probably rule this range together with low TTK LMGs and of course sniper rifles (when they one-hit-kill).
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 23, 2009 8:35:30 GMT -5
FAM16 with SP is pretty damn good at long range especially with a thermal scope. I don't know about the Raffie.
I can say that the FAM16 still performs quite well at close range with and without SP, though SP cuts the TTK in half. It's still not as fast at 0TTK weapons, but I don't generally feel the need to switch weapons like I sometimes do with other AR's. It's not as good for run and gunning, though because you need to make sure that your first burst or at least your second lands on target or you're ROF is going to get you killed a lot.
The SCAR and TAR do seem to perform decently at close range, though I feel more confident with my FAM16 than spraying.
I have a hard time with SMG's, possibly because I've trained myself to automatically use ADS instead of hipfiring. With the AR's there's not much reason not to ADS unless you need to keep your mobility. Not that I wait for the ADS, but as long as the crosshairs are on target I'll fire and ADS at the same time. The exceptions are if you have a scope or maybe an ACOG which will actually limit your vision quite a bit at close range, and possibly if you're taking damage that will throw your aim off, though I feel like if they are far enough away to miss from the damage kick it's probably far enough to miss from hipfiring as well.
I think I'll have to play with the Machine Pistols when I get the chance since I could akimbo them to force myself to hipfire. I'd try the same with SMG's but the loss of hipfire accuracy pretty well lames them.
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Post by bobysk8 on Dec 23, 2009 22:12:52 GMT -5
On Cod4 i was a massive fan of steady aim and hip firing, as it always seemed to get me kills, but now i just can't get into it, i think its mainly due to the stronger knifes, so if your in hip firing range its just quicker to knife.
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