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Post by -3055- on Apr 16, 2013 8:48:10 GMT -5
Don't forget akimbo fmg9 "nerf"
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 16, 2013 9:36:50 GMT -5
Bit late to the thread - Remove snipers They don't fit into the game at all and just annoying railguns. You have enough trouble with balance just remove them. If you feel the need to have snipers in the game just remove the power to railgun, force snipers who want to play aggrevise to use iron sights or have no one hit kill power at close range. Removing snipers would be the worst idea you could come up with. Do they need to be less effective up close? Yes. Do they need to be removed? No. They do create positive gameplay when used correctly (for sniping targets from a distance), and taking that away would be stupid. .....actually, in terms of creating 'positive gameplay', snipers do just the opposite in just about all the objective games. The inspire bad gameplay. If one is playing solo, as soon as you see a bunch of snipers on your team, you might has chalk up another 'Loss', as 99.999% of the people who play this game are incapable of contributing anything to Objective, while sniping. That is reality. Think about it. You are playing solo on Domination and see four other 'snipers' on your team. You think they will be helping to secure the flag? Fvck no. Those kiddies will be racing to the few obvious dumb sniping spots on the typical CoD map, or the back of your side, and sitting there going 8-11, 7-6, etc.. doing absolutely nothing to help anyone. With the present setup of CoD, how this game works, sniping is a junk class. Now don't get me wrong. Sniping is fun. It feels good to actually aim, get the one shot kill, all that stuff. But in a game dominated by a 22.5 meter average encounter range, a gun best used at 50+ meters is worthless. It's only real use is a small 'role player' within a group, when you know you have other people to handle the meat and potatoes stuff. So the question to ask is this. Do you want better gameplay? Or do you want to sell out and give kids a cool gun to screw around with?
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42
True Bro
Bingo Bango Bongo
Posts: 1,588
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Post by 42 on Apr 16, 2013 11:41:37 GMT -5
Remove stats please. The lead to "bad behavior" from some players. Or if not only make players stats visible if they choose so. Bob I hope this extremely long post is a joke. There's so many conflicting ideas it doesn't make a bit of sense.
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Post by smokingb0b on Apr 16, 2013 12:17:17 GMT -5
Remove stats please. The lead to "bad behavior" from some players. Or if not only make players stats visible if they choose so. Bob I hope this extremely long post is a joke. There's so many conflicting ideas it doesn't make a bit of sense. Such as?
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Apr 16, 2013 12:33:08 GMT -5
Stats will never be removed as it's a marketing tool, rightly or wrongly.
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Post by smokingb0b on Apr 16, 2013 12:43:06 GMT -5
Stats will never be removed as it's a marketing tool, rightly or wrongly. I did also add that they could let players choose to turn them off.
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Post by smokingb0b on Apr 16, 2013 12:59:02 GMT -5
That would completely nullify the idea of it fixing "bad behaviour" Maybe, but give players the option, that's all I suggested. Either-ways no one would know if it would work or not, unless they try. "Stats will never be removed as it's a marketing tool, rightly or wrongly" And are you suggesting that sales would plummet if they removed stats? I suspect many would whine about it, but buy the game anyway.
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mmacola
True Bro
the brazilian guy
Posts: 1,995
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Post by mmacola on Apr 16, 2013 14:16:07 GMT -5
Every time I see NegFour avatar, it's different. Make up your mind man
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42
True Bro
Bingo Bango Bongo
Posts: 1,588
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Post by 42 on Apr 16, 2013 14:25:12 GMT -5
Every time I see NegFour avatar, it's different. Make up your mind man What fun would that be?
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Usagi on Apr 16, 2013 14:38:53 GMT -5
For the love of all that is holy, PLEASE put K/D spread in the TDM scoreboard.
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Post by smokingb0b on Apr 16, 2013 14:51:08 GMT -5
Maybe, but give players the option, that's all I suggested. Either-ways no one would know if it would work or not, unless they try. "Stats will never be removed as it's a marketing tool, rightly or wrongly" And are you suggesting that sales would plummet if they removed stats? I suspect many would whine about it, but buy the game anyway. I can certainly imagine more people avoiding the next game if stat tracking was removed, and I'd imagine the group that cares is far larger than the group the would jump at the chance to buy a cod without them. At the very least it wouldn't be a risk I would take. What else are they going to play/buy? The market is not exactly flush with COD like games. People knew Death Streaks were back in MW3, hardly put a dent in the sales. Its a single aspect to the game, one I think we can do without. Anyway its just an idea, which i think is the point of the Thread. Good or bad post them all, and let the devs sort them out.
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Brick2urface
True Bro
Putting the "laughter" back in "slaughter"
Posts: 1,606
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Post by Brick2urface on Apr 16, 2013 15:22:09 GMT -5
I very much doubt that not having stat tracking would significantly decrease the number of people buying the game. But that is why I proposed ranked and unranked lobbies so that players can have it both ways. Or just have a way of toggling stat recording on and off like whats his face said.
Although I like my idea better.
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Post by smokingb0b on Apr 16, 2013 15:31:37 GMT -5
They don't need an equivalent shooter, merely losing popularity with their players is a bad move. I mean arena shooters like quake and ut04 used to be the big thing, but they weren't killed off by some similar game that was slightly more appealing, they drowned in their own piss. And yes all ideas are allowed to be said, but you did pose the question as to how it may affect sales. Yes I did, so we will agree to disagree on this one. "I very much doubt that not having stat tracking would significantly decrease the number of people buying the game. But that is why I proposed ranked and unranked lobbies so that players can have it both ways. Or just have a way of toggling stat recording on and off like whats his face said. Although I like my idea better." So do I I never thought of that.
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Post by Aphoristic on Apr 16, 2013 15:59:58 GMT -5
Removing snipers would be the worst idea you could come up with. Do they need to be less effective up close? Yes. Do they need to be removed? No. They do create positive gameplay when used correctly (for sniping targets from a distance), and taking that away would be stupid. .....actually, in terms of creating 'positive gameplay', snipers do just the opposite in just about all the objective games. The inspire bad gameplay. If one is playing solo, as soon as you see a bunch of snipers on your team, you might has chalk up another 'Loss', as 99.999% of the people who play this game are incapable of contributing anything to Objective, while sniping. That is reality. Think about it. You are playing solo on Domination and see four other 'snipers' on your team. You think they will be helping to secure the flag? Fvck no. Those kiddies will be racing to the few obvious dumb sniping spots on the typical CoD map, or the back of your side, and sitting there going 8-11, 7-6, etc.. doing absolutely nothing to help anyone. With the present setup of CoD, how this game works, sniping is a junk class. Now don't get me wrong. Sniping is fun. It feels good to actually aim, get the one shot kill, all that stuff. But in a game dominated by a 22.5 meter average encounter range, a gun best used at 50+ meters is worthless. It's only real use is a small 'role player' within a group, when you know you have other people to handle the meat and potatoes stuff. So the question to ask is this. Do you want better gameplay? Or do you want to sell out and give kids a cool gun to screw around with? False. Snipers are not a bad thing in objective games. It has uses in defending objectives and picking people off who are in otherwise fortified positions. The problem of having 5 kiddos on your team with snipers doing nothing isn't the fault of the snipers. It is the fault of the players. Until some movement happens in the playerbase to make people actually think about what classes each other are using, there is no way to fix this. Removing snipers would only serve to piss off almost everyone in the community.
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adw1983
True Bro
Red Frostraven
Posts: 244
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Post by adw1983 on Apr 16, 2013 20:24:47 GMT -5
I just remembered something. At first, I thought it was a dream. But then... ... One word struck me: Distance. I walked over to my window. I can see the hillside on the other side of the lake, 3 000 meters away. Before any fanboys or girls jump to the gun already; I don't want 3 000 meter maps. How about a map with 100 meter sightlines? Here's a map layout to show what I'm thinking of: img703.imageshack.us/img703/9370/100mranges.jpg4 buildings, each with 6-8 tailored positions with overview, the map non-cluttered, but with a rational amount of cover to allow movement. Even when a player KNOWS the other player is behind the trucks -- he cannot predict which way that player will sprint out, and needs a good aim to hit the player before he gets to the next truck or can dive into a crater. Craters are deep enough to hide players fully from the buildings and provides camo and cover advantages versus people in buildings, who are more free to move than those in craters. The house on the top has the most overview of all locations, but is wood and has planked fence on the porch that can be seen through partially. X and Y are bombsites, Z is the demolition tiebreaker bombsite. A, B and C are domination positions. The forest should provide full concealment from all houses, and especially pose a threat to building 1. The forest is disadvantaged to building 3, and is neutral to building 2 and 4. The playground provides concealment. The third floor on building Two is on the same height as the porch on building 4, and the third floor in building 3 is the tallest position on the map. God, I miss making maps. (I like to make player-sized targets and automate a shooting ground/gallery in games that support custom map creation. I made a fantastic CS1.6 shooting ground with torso-head targets that fell down for 30 seconds each time you hit them twice, and remained down for another 30 second for each time you downed another. Underground on that same map I made moving targets that could be started and returned to the start by pushing a button, allowing you to see where you hit on the target. Finally, I made a village with 3d-targets that were downed when you hit them thrice. The only problem that stopped me from publishing it was that the map crashed when you looked up towards the skybox in the north-east corner -- and then I forfeited PC-gaming for the 360.) ... LET US MAKE CUSTOM MAPS FOR THE 360!!!!!
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adw1983
True Bro
Red Frostraven
Posts: 244
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Post by adw1983 on Apr 16, 2013 21:38:18 GMT -5
After MW3 and BO2 -- tactical players DESERVE a map that large and that open. A map where when you spot a player, you can lay out a plan that will take 20 seconds or more to fulfill, where you actually flank that person in the actual intended meaning of the word "flanking" as a term for a tactical manouver.
God I miss the times where spawning, rounding a corner and flanking weren't the one and same thing,
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adw1983
True Bro
Red Frostraven
Posts: 244
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Post by adw1983 on Apr 17, 2013 2:05:04 GMT -5
End by timeout? Not with my super-psycic anti-sniper skills.
Give me a sniper opponent -- and my pure unadultered HATE for the playstyle will yield me the superpower of Bane Bullets.
...
I was going to upload a clip from yesterday where I shot a sniper through two walls on drone, just by hearing him fire from that position and knowing the walls are thin between us -- but ... the game was not in my recent games list. CURSES!
I was from inside the "robot room" closest to our spawn, shot 5 rounds through the hallway walls and killied him when he fired a shot from the top of the stairs towards the helipad.
...
As for kills and deaths: ONLY RECORD KD IN TEAM DEATHMATCH.
In Free for All -- winning 30-25 is no better nor worse than winning 25-5 on the time running out.
In every other game mode excluding Kill Confirmed -- you can win a game without one kill. In kill confirmed, going 10-10 can be better than going 20-10: 10-10 with 10 confirms and 10 denies is better than 20-10 with 5 confirms and 0 denies.
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adw1983
True Bro
Red Frostraven
Posts: 244
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Post by adw1983 on Apr 17, 2013 5:14:34 GMT -5
"May be smokingb0b was thinking of Unreal and/or Trials. In Trials you can make your own levels and the best ones submitted to the developers get into DLC and the creators get prizes. I forget what the rewards were but the levels in Trials were superbly made and it's great to see the creativity unleashed" That's the idea....Will never happen though ALL because of the Penis. Bobby Kotick's worst nightmare. The phone rings at the middle of the night. "Erhm... Yes? Eh... Bobby here?" "Sorry for calling 3 in the morning but... Eh. You know that custom map contest?" "Yes. The winner was some european guy, a 23 year old." "Actually. No. It was a 16 year old guy -- the brother of the man who submitted the map." "Oh... no. Please... Tell me they didn't..." "They... They did." "How... how bad is it?" "There's a tower, and if you climb the tower, you can see..." "See what? Why didn't the tester find this?!" "You can see...*Sob* The testers... You had to climb a car and jump to get to the ladder... and then... when you climb to the top. *Sob* It's all over youtube and twitter is full of screenshots!" "See what? WHAT CAN YOU SEE?!" ..."Dildos! Dildos everywhere!"
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 17, 2013 5:21:47 GMT -5
It's all about encounters per minute. And Treyarch and IW have very strict guidelines/targets that they feel they HAVE to maintain.
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adw1983
True Bro
Red Frostraven
Posts: 244
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Post by adw1983 on Apr 17, 2013 6:12:36 GMT -5
The problem with demolition is that it requires both targets to be destroyed -- when the original and balanced game mode Search and Destroy uses 2 bombsides BECAUSE of the defender-advantage.
Problems with dealing with the last bombsite comes from the inherent imbalance of the game mode's requirements from the attackers -- and partially from the placement of the bombsites relative to the defenders' and attackers' spawns.
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Apr 17, 2013 8:56:46 GMT -5
I can certainly imagine more people avoiding the next game if stat tracking was removed, and I'd imagine the group that cares is far larger than the group the would jump at the chance to buy a cod without them. At the very least it wouldn't be a risk I would take. What else are they going to play/buy? The market is not exactly flush with COD like games. People knew Death Streaks were back in MW3, hardly put a dent in the sales. Its a single aspect to the game, one I think we can do without. Anyway its just an idea, which i think is the point of the Thread. Good or bad post them all, and let the devs sort them out. Ever since the emphasis on stats was made into BO1 with the incorporation of the Combat Record sales have increased upon each title and the common consensus I feel from regular COD gamers is that MW2 is the best multiplayer title, although I prefer COD4 over it by a fair margin. And various stats are clan requirements upon joining, which started in MW3. COD has largely been about adding stuff to keep existing COD gamers happy, whether it's stats, killstreaks, buffing and nerfing perks from previous titles for the next title, theatre mode or game types that originated from other series. Disaffected COD players tend to start playing a variety of games rather than a direct competitor. Some of my friends, including myself, have taken breaks from BO2 and most of us are playing different games. It's a great game for social purposes with friends as it's the most likely game that everyone has. Speaking of deathstreaks, I've seen people moan about them in MW3 because they took it as gospel that Last Stand, or its equivalent, will not be making a return after Robert Bowling's speech at some games conference or whatever it was. All I remember is Robert Bowling shouting "**** you Last Stand!" and then having a facial impression of *I gotta get of here before this game is released*.
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Post by smokingb0b on Apr 17, 2013 10:59:01 GMT -5
What else are they going to play/buy? The market is not exactly flush with COD like games. People knew Death Streaks were back in MW3, hardly put a dent in the sales. Its a single aspect to the game, one I think we can do without. Anyway its just an idea, which i think is the point of the Thread. Good or bad post them all, and let the devs sort them out. Ever since the emphasis on stats was made into BO1 with the incorporation of the Combat Record sales have increased upon each title and the common consensus I feel from regular COD gamers is that MW2 is the best multiplayer title, although I prefer COD4 over it by a fair margin. And various stats are clan requirements upon joining, which started in MW3. COD has largely been about adding stuff to keep existing COD gamers happy, whether it's stats, killstreaks, buffing and nerfing perks from previous titles for the next title, theatre mode or game types that originated from other series. Disaffected COD players tend to start playing a variety of games rather than a direct competitor. Some of my friends, including myself, have taken breaks from BO2 and most of us are playing different games. It's a great game for social purposes with friends as it's the most likely game that everyone has. Speaking of deathstreaks, I've seen people moan about them in MW3 because they took it as gospel that Last Stand, or its equivalent, will not be making a return after Robert Bowling's speech at some games conference or whatever it was. All I remember is Robert Bowling shouting "**** you Last Stand!" and then having a facial impression of *I gotta get of here before this game is released*. Stats tracking had nothing to do with the sales of Blops, rather YouTube sold the game for them. MW2 was really when YouTube took off. And given the issues in that game, Blops was always going to be a hit. In my experience disaffected COD player still play COD, its a unique and familiar experience, that as of now, cant be got anywhere else. (Activision) have a monopoly on it and monopoly's are never a good thing.
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Apr 17, 2013 11:21:28 GMT -5
So why did BO1 sell more units than MW2 if Youtube helped sell the copies? There was plenty of footage of MW2 on Youtube, which often gets cited as being bad - Youtube Heroes advocating OMA and DC, 1337 QS with the Intervention etc. Killstreaks were weaker in BO1 than MW2 and there will be a number of players who play COD for streaks. And I'm sure most people prefer modern to futuristic settings in shooters than previous eras, though I don't have anything to back that up. May be some of the bad points in MW2 meant that BO1 was always going to outsell MW2. I still think stats have an important role in the series or neither IW nor 3arc would bother expanding on it in subsequent releases. It would seem pointless additional work, especially as each studio releases titles bi-annually, that stat tracking must matter to a substantial number of gamers.
I'd be happy to see stats gone personally I know it's never going to happen. Can you imagine if we can global statistics on attachment usage? Player with the most kills with the Target Finder will be getting a rough ride from the 'community'.
As for the disaffected gamers, some people have completely disbanded COD for Battlefield or Halo. I'm not one of them but I'm guessing it's certainly not a minimal number. I find playing BO2 less often is a better way to deal with any issues I might have and play other games to keep BO2 fresh than play it like 24/7 and then get sick of it totally.
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Usagi on Apr 17, 2013 11:26:11 GMT -5
Wait, someone said that the MW3 shotguns were good? I never thought I'd see the day... Whoever it was that said that - I can't be arsed to quote your huge post - the R870 does not pump too fast. If it was as powerful as the MW2 SPAS then maybe, but it's weak as hell. I don't agree that shotguns should be completely unforgiving though. Perhaps the most unforgiving class, but some wiggle room should still be allowed, like how snipers can quick-scope and no-scope to compensate a little for it's reliance on controlling engagements. I'd prefer that stats stay in the game (as if they're going to take them out ) because I like to see how I stack up against other payers despite being just a better-than-average player. I also like being able to see if I'm improving.
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adw1983
True Bro
Red Frostraven
Posts: 244
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Post by adw1983 on Apr 17, 2013 11:36:59 GMT -5
Hours played:
1: CoD4 2: MW2 3: BO 4: MW3 5: BO2
It's not because I get tired of the games, but because the maps just keep getting worse and worse -- and it's clear which games got the most development time.66yyyyyyh
Edit: My son sais hi: "66yyyyyh"
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Post by smokingb0b on Apr 17, 2013 11:40:45 GMT -5
Wait, someone said that the MW3 shotguns were good? I never thought I'd see the day... Whoever it was that said that - I can't be arsed to quote your huge post - the R870 does not pump too fast. If it was as powerful as the MW2 SPAS then maybe, but it's weak as hell. I don't agree that shotguns should be completely unforgiving though. Perhaps the most unforgiving class, but some wiggle room should still be allowed, like how snipers can quick-scope and no-scope to compensate a little for it's reliance on controlling engagements. I'd prefer that stats stay in the game (as if they're going to take them out ) because I like to see how I stack up against other payers despite being just a better-than-average player. I also like being able to see if I'm improving. The spas with Damage in MW3 was fine as long you got a good connection, run Specialist and get the range and its a monster. The R870 is monster up close, and it pumps wayyyyy to fast ...and my most used gun... wings. Popularity. Youtube made the series popular.
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Usagi
True Bro
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Post by Usagi on Apr 17, 2013 12:00:08 GMT -5
The spas with Damage in MW3 was fine as long you got a good connection, run Specialist and get the range and its a monster. fine as long you got a good connection Right, just like every other gun in MW3. Good connections aren't something that MW3 is known for. Any gun is good in very specific circumstances. When compared to other guns that can do well in almost all situations they encounter, mainly ARs and SMGs, shotguns need to be very powerful to compensate.
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Post by smokingb0b on Apr 17, 2013 12:12:45 GMT -5
The series was popular well before it became a youtube phenomena. Cod4 only lost out to halo 3 on xbox for 2k7. Hell, cod2 was the most popular 360 launch title by far. Yes it was popular, but only to an extent. but YouTube sent it into the stratosphere. Look at the world at war and cod 4 numbers, right before MW2 and YouTube came along,
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Brick2urface
True Bro
Putting the "laughter" back in "slaughter"
Posts: 1,606
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Post by Brick2urface on Apr 17, 2013 12:33:14 GMT -5
Wait, someone said that the MW3 shotguns were good? I never thought I'd see the day... Whoever it was that said that - I can't be arsed to quote your huge post - the R870 does not pump too fast. If it was as powerful as the MW2 SPAS then maybe, but it's weak as hell. I don't agree that shotguns should be completely unforgiving though. Perhaps the most unforgiving class, but some wiggle room should still be allowed, like how snipers can quick-scope and no-scope to compensate a little for it's reliance on controlling engagements. I'd prefer that stats stay in the game (as if they're going to take them out ) because I like to see how I stack up against other payers despite being just a better-than-average player. I also like being able to see if I'm improving. The spas with Damage in MW3 was fine as long you got a good connection, run Specialist and get the range and its a monster. The R870 is monster up close, and it pumps wayyyyy to fast ...and my most used gun... wings. Popularity. Youtube made the series popular. Spas with damage was still relatively unreliable up close. I alone have literally dozens (likely 60+) of hitmarker vids with the damage spas from mw3. It is not "fine" compared to the other weapons in mw3. Neither was its specialist bonus performance either compared to specialist's effects on the performance of other weapons as well. The 870 has the shortest one shot kill range of any pump shotgun in cod history. And it is a 2/8 pellet kill up close which was the standard for pump shotguns from cod 1 to mw2. The 2/8 pellet kill is nothing new to cod. And the 870 only fires 9 more rpm over the stakeout from blops 1. The 870 is an absolutely terrible shotgun compared to almost any other shotgun in any other cod game.
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Post by smokingb0b on Apr 17, 2013 12:54:45 GMT -5
Correlation =/= causation. Tell that to the marketing department at EA, who sent their BF4 demo to all the big you-tubers. I would wager the marketing department at Activision would tell you the same. Also look at halo, far less popular on YouTube, sales are pertty static "]
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