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Post by hotobu on Dec 27, 2009 9:26:02 GMT -5
I'm new to the CoD series, and after asking someone Killcams are apparently not a new thing. I'd still like to hear some people's opinions on them. I abhor them. I detest the idea of the guy who you just killed having your exact location, and possibly the locations of some of your teammates. Couple this with the terrible spawns in this game and it's like IW wants people to go around revenge killing. This is part of the reason I've taken a liking to Touch Football, but the problem there is that there's not much variety. Cold Blooded dominates which makes kill streaks a bit useless, and in accordance with that people run with Ninja on to complement the game type. I'd love to see an option to simply turn off the Kill Cams for regular mode, or perhaps make it a deathstreak perk.
What do you think?
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mdnl
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Post by mdnl on Dec 27, 2009 9:36:27 GMT -5
The idea of it being a deathsteak perk is pretty good and 2 or 3 would seem decent and it would remove the amount of painkillers in the game too.
Someone call IW.
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Post by explosion101 on Dec 27, 2009 10:08:02 GMT -5
Final Stand should not have more health than Last Stand also T_T
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Post by legacy on Dec 27, 2009 11:08:27 GMT -5
I never had a problem with the killcam, I want people to try and revenge kill me. They usually make bad mistakes when holding a grudge (at least I know I do). If there were no killcams then tactical loitering would be even worst. The deathstreak idea is not a bad one tho.
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gus
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Post by gus on Dec 27, 2009 11:38:21 GMT -5
What do people mean by saying "touch football"?
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Post by cptmacmillan on Dec 27, 2009 12:28:06 GMT -5
On this board there are filters for some words. One of those words is H ardcore, which gets changed into things like hardcore.
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Post by ramsen on Dec 27, 2009 12:28:49 GMT -5
This forum has crazy filters  If you say hard.core it turns into Touch Football edit: I'm too slow |
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dog
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Post by dog on Dec 27, 2009 13:12:32 GMT -5
Hardcore
Hah! It didn't get filtered. ;D
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Post by mw0swedeking on Dec 27, 2009 14:34:32 GMT -5
There should not be both final stand AND last stand. And I do like killcams, they are a deterrent to staying in the same place. But if it makes you feel any better, it seems that no one really watches them, so it's not as bad a problem as you think. One reason I like them is I can gauge my connection based on the comparison of killcam and gameplay. shit these hardcore motherfuckers  |
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Post by kcpwnsgman on Dec 27, 2009 21:52:53 GMT -5
I HATE when people complain and turn it off in cod4, it is very useful to figure out how you died, i use it to become a better player, not to track a sniper's location when i die like everyone else seems to use it for...
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das147369
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Post by das147369 on Dec 27, 2009 22:36:25 GMT -5
I despise the killcams. Why? Because everytime I watch one I'm reminded of the terrible laggy hosts and shoddy IW netcode. I'm sprinting, I see someone and aim and fire seeing hit indicators but in the killcam I'm still sprinting when I die. And of course then I start to reload, see someone so I duck behind cover without getting hit, finish reloading and pop back up to fire but what do I see in the killcam? Me getting shot in the middle of the reload animation. And it sure doesn't matter how many bars I have or what color they are, this happens more often than not and sure makes me rage.
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Post by rocketshiptothemoo on Dec 27, 2009 22:42:27 GMT -5
Since most people skip the killcam anyway I don't see the problem. Plus it helps weasel out campers a little.
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 27, 2009 23:14:19 GMT -5
I despise the killcams. Why? Because everytime I watch one I'm reminded of the terrible laggy hosts and shoddy IW netcode. I'm sprinting, I see someone and aim and fire seeing hit indicators but in the killcam I'm still sprinting when I die. And of course then I start to reload, see someone so I duck behind cover without getting hit, finish reloading and pop back up to fire but what do I see in the killcam? Me getting shot in the middle of the reload animation. And it sure doesn't matter how many bars I have or what color they are, this happens more often than not and sure makes me rage. Don't shoot the messenger. That's the fault of lag and bad netcode. The killcam is your friend. Personally, I love it, because it punishes tactical loitering (since they nerfed grenades, every bit counts), but also adds another layer to the game. I love killing a guy, making him think I'm going a certain direction, or sitting in one spot, and then killing him again when he's trying to get me after he respawns. |
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 28, 2009 1:39:57 GMT -5
kill cams in core are good. without them, noone would ever learn.
about 4 days after the game came out i was ranked 107th in the world in kills... partly because i was winning FFA matches outright every 8-9min and partly because i had the game 11 days early.
without kill cams the 150,000 of us that were playing atleast a week early on north american servers would all have like 100:1 kdr's and everyone that bought the game would have quit in the first week it came out from being spawn killed left & right.
if you dont like kill cams, play hardcore.
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moses
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Post by moses on Dec 28, 2009 1:45:54 GMT -5
I like the Kill Cams. Generally I only watch it if I got killed by someone in a skilled way (as in, I died way too fast and want to make sure the guy who just bested me wasn't hip firing from twenty feet away and got super lucky).
What bothered me about MW2's Kill Cams, after hundreds of hours of playing, with the easiest of modifications and what I thought many fans would ask for ... is to not have the ability to turn them off in Core. I know it's ingrained in all our heads to mash reload every time we die, but why not give us an option? Because we'll suddenly want to watch a bunch of cams even though we all skip 19/20 of them?
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fred
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Post by fred on Dec 28, 2009 2:08:18 GMT -5
Cold Blooded dominates which makes kill streaks a bit useless ... I agree most killstreaks are neutralized. However some of the seldom/less used area-effect kill-streaks come into their own: Precison Airstrike and Stealth Bomber. Cold Blooded does nothing to stop either (other than making it harder to target) and they cannot be shot down (to my knowledge). Those kill streaks that can be destroyed will be destroyed quickly by a good team. Not many good teams though ... |
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Post by ssog on Dec 28, 2009 3:02:20 GMT -5
Since most people skip the killcam anyway I don't see the problem. This. Even the people who desperately need to watch the killcams don't wind up watching the killcams. You won't believe how many times I wind up with the Accolade for the fewest deaths *AND* the Accolade for the most time watching killcams. Seriously, I had a match where I went 10-2 and got the "most time watching killcams" accolade. Someone on the other team had 19 deaths! How does someone with 2 deaths spend more time watching killcams than someone with 19?! I play at a slower pace, so I make a point of watching every single killcam, unless it's Headquarters and my team is about to capture the HQ, or I've got a Tactical Insertion down, or there's some other pressing reason why I need to respawn IMMEDIATELY or risk losing a major tactical advantage. I don't get a lot of kills, but I also don't get a lot of deaths, so it's not like I'm watching 15 cams a match or anything. I figure that 30 seconds a match could be put to much better use learning from my mistakes than rushing back into the game so I can just make them all over again. |
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Post by Indy_Bones on Dec 28, 2009 6:12:27 GMT -5
Personally I hate the killcams, having come from a VERY long CS background.
In CS I always used to record vids of my games and watch them back later to see where I was getting shot from etc. This enabled me to learn from my mistakes, but not adversely impacting on an opposing player who may have got into a good position.
The killcam is horrible if you're a sniper, as the whole premise is normally to find a spot that's well hidden, but with good vision of a certain area, and wait from someone to appear. With the killcam, this means snipers either have to constantly be on the move to a new spot, or hope that the people they do take out, aren't intent on instant revenge because they know exactly where they are...
As for the suggestion that it helps stop tactical loitering, I again feel that it's your own fault for being killed by someone tactical loitering, so why punish them for your shoddy play? People who play a slower paced, more tactical game rarely suffer much from campers, it's the nutters who sprint round the map 24/7 using akimbo 1887's/knife etc that tend to get caught out most - because they're not paying enough attention to their surroundings. Let's face it, it is a wargame - not an athletics meeting...
I'd love a new mode that takes elements from both core and HC and blends them together.
A) No killcams
B) Full health
C) Either no re-spawn or re-spawn delay of at least 10-15 secs
D) Friendly fire on
E) HUD active
Give me a mode like this and I'd be a very happy bunny.
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Post by spifnar on Dec 28, 2009 13:25:43 GMT -5
Silencers+CBPro+Ghillie suit = It's good to have killcams. And as people have said, it forces people to move, which helps a game flow.
Not that I'd be against more game types with killcam off. But then again I also wouldn't mind more 30-health game types with killcam on
Killcam also helps a lot in relaxing me regarding lag vs aim-bot. Nothing more annoying than having your reflexes spot on, putting two M16 bursts into someone the millisecond you see them come around the corner...and dying. The killcam gives you the server view of what happens and you realize it's a lag death, not an aimbot (PC)
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Post by taboolexicon on Dec 28, 2009 15:51:32 GMT -5
I think a Zero-Killcam perk would be awesome. That way, instead of Ninja, you might use Anti-Killcam or whatever you would call it.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Dec 28, 2009 16:31:01 GMT -5
no that would be terrible, that would be named camper and camper pro. there are spots in this game where you can NOT be seen. (like in some bushes) combine that with a sillenced FAMAS and cold blooded pro and you'll ruin the game.
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Post by taboolexicon on Dec 28, 2009 16:41:34 GMT -5
Hmm. I see your point, but I don't think that it would ruin the game.
Usually, if you get shot and killed, you have a pretty good idea of where it came from -- if you're paying attention, that is. Campers are going to camp regardless. This perk might make them a little more effective at tactical loitering, but you should be able to sniff out a camper after he gets you once. I see it being a help to snipers mostly. IRL, not that this is RL, but IRL snipers are slow-movers. They find a spot with good cover and wait for a good shot. You can't do that very well as the game is now. To combat this, when I am sniping, I'm constantly on the move.
It'd be a good perk to compete with Ninja Pro or Cold Blooded. If you want to use it, you gotta give up something that helps campers. I imagine some people would love it while others wouldn't bother. Campers would get a little benefit out of it, but experienced players should be able to take out campers without too much trouble. . . not that I'm great at it all the time.
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Post by king631 on Dec 28, 2009 16:43:14 GMT -5
Last night one of my clan memebers had nukes in back to back games and was cut just short of a third... legit, no boosting... both nukes came due to chopper gunner --- how can you say killstreaks don't work or are negated? Also, what's the deal with the filters anyway? Why filter the word Hardc0re? ... sorry , new to the site and to message boards in general ... thanks!
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Post by taboolexicon on Dec 28, 2009 16:46:08 GMT -5
Hey king,
I think what they meant by killstreaks being negated is that in HC, people often use coldblooded which makes them much more difficult to kill with common killstreak rewards like the chopper gunner and AC130.
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Post by king631 on Dec 28, 2009 17:01:50 GMT -5
Gotcha, thanks Taboo. That makes sense... the common use of coldblooded and ninja in HC basically takes away heartbeat sensors and thermal sights too. That's why even though I played HC exclusively on WaW ... I refuse to play it on MW2. Too slow paced. The reduced damage in core versus previous COD games has made it a much beter game, overall with good balance. The killcam is a tough adjustment but worth making for the superior gameplay.
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Post by cptmacmillan on Dec 29, 2009 6:39:04 GMT -5
Hardcore is filtered as a joke.
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Post by bradqqqqq on Dec 29, 2009 9:37:27 GMT -5
Hardcore is nothing like it is in Call of duty 4. In call of duty 4 you could relax and play a game at the perfect speed. The Hardcore TDM's would make it to 750 points and not just if the other team was dominating. I have seen 700 to 750 point games last game. In this game for Hardcore games end at 4000 to 4000. Its really bugging me and it makes Hardcore no fun. Hardcore HQ is only used for handgun kills for tact knife.
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Post by ssog on Dec 30, 2009 6:34:41 GMT -5
Hard core is nothing like it is in Call of duty 4. In call of duty 4 you could relax and play a game at the perfect speed. The Hard core TDM's would make it to 750 points and not just if the other team was dominating. I have seen 700 to 750 point games last game. In this game for Hard core games end at 4000 to 4000. Its really bugging me and it makes Hard core no fun. Hard core HQ is only used for handgun kills for tact knife. I played HC almost exclusively in CoD4 (probably 95% of my games), and I don't know what you were playing, but in my experience, games *RARELY* ended shy of the full 10 minutes because one team hit 75 kills. I've also seen at least a dozen game-winning killcams in HC so far in MW2. I'd say both games play at the same pace on average*. *note: I said on average. I'm not talking about Derail. That map is unplayable. |
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Post by bradqqqqq on Dec 30, 2009 6:53:32 GMT -5
Hard core is nothing like it is in Call of duty 4. In call of duty 4 you could relax and play a game at the perfect speed. The Hard core TDM's would make it to 750 points and not just if the other team was dominating. I have seen 700 to 750 point games last game. In this game for Hard core games end at 4000 to 4000. Its really bugging me and it makes Hard core no fun. Hard core HQ is only used for handgun kills for tact knife. I played HC almost exclusively in CoD4 (probably 95% of my games), and I don't know what you were playing, but in my experience, games *RARELY* ended shy of the full 10 minutes because one team hit 75 kills. I've also seen at least a dozen game-winning killcams in HC so far in MW2. I'd say both games play at the same pace on average*. *note: I said on average. I'm not talking about Derail. That map is unplayable. And estate, and a few other maps. Actaully thinking about it... I mostly played HC HQ in the last game. That game had better maps and bigger sight lines. But i think this game is bigger maps with smaller sight lines. Touch Football feels slower in this game even when I did play Hard core TDM. Kill cam should be a one death deathstreak. Meaning as if you die your next life you get it no matter what. Hardline pro has no effect on it and no deathstreaks for hardcore. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 30, 2009 8:34:08 GMT -5
I like the killcams. They are good for those WTF! moments that happen to us all. I think the reason there's not an option to simply disable them on your end is because you wouldn't be able to turn them back on for any specific death, while with the current system you can skip to your heart's content and then dynamically watch one if you decide it's worthwhile. I do wish you could skip it before it starts the killcam, though. You should be able to mash X the moment you die, no matter how you died, without having to watch your death on your end and wait for it to replay on the killcam before you can skip it.
BTW Is it just me or does Copycat become completely unusable without the killcam? I had killcams turned off while testing something else in split screen and I didn't seem to be able to use copycat even when it activated.
Having said that it does make it particularly difficult to snipe traditionally instead of running around noscoping.
Rather than taking them out completely I suggest a half measure as a perk or perhaps activated automatically when you get killed by a scoped weapon (only if the shooter was actually scoped in on you, though.) My suggestion is to still have a killcam, but instead of showing literally the killer's point of view put the cam into a 3rd person view from the direction of the killing shot. It would still show you how you died and what mistake you likely made, but only give you a general idea where the sniper was.
Having said that I don't think we need to make tactical loitering too much easier for snipers, thus I kinda like the idea of making it a perk or something where it's a tradeoff.
I'm not in favor of making it a deathstreak, though. That's a tradeoff on the wrong end, making it cost the guy that just died instead of the killer. He's already dead, you gotta kick him while he's down too? Let the people that die have their deathstreaks, they have essentially earned it. After all, kill streaks reward players that are already doing well with yet more ways to pwn everybody that's having a piss poor match. That's profoundly unfair. It's like giving the team that can score 3 touchdowns without the enemy team getting any another 3 more free touchdowns. WTF? It's not fair, but it is fun, and it makes people actually value their lives instead of just taking any risk they can. Plus in MW2 the KS rewards aren't nearly so unbalancing since you can actually counter all the really dangerous ones and sometimes even turn the tables and use them to your advantage instead. So I'm not anti KS. But I'm very in favor of Death Streaks, because anybody doing that poorly I think deserves a little help
Perhaps one option would be to add the killcam nerf to Scrambler to make it not quite such a terrible perk, while at the same time becoming a trade off for campers. (You would avoid giving up your exact location by nerfing the killcam of your victims, but would give away your general location via the map static.) It could even be the pro ability, though the Scrambler challenges don't mesh well with sniper tactical loitering. Still though, I think that it would work well with it. You would still get people trying to rage kill campers after, only rather than having the exact location they would have a general idea and would go searching for static, putting themselves deliberately within the no radar zone. That would help them find the camper's general location, but would also be completely abusable by the camper if they aren't careful.
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