Hurdling Claymores

[wrl]

Very informative site you have here - i've been reading for the past few weeks ... anything for a few extra kills!

anyway, I notice players are jumping over claymores - do you need a perk to do this or is it just speed and timing?

thanks for any info

you are my bro, bro

[scubasteve]

I find that jumping after tripping claymores is generally a bad idea. Whenever im sprinting with lightweight i find that i almost never die when tripping claymores, jumping with lightweight would probly be the same. There are better ways to deal with claymores than jumping though.

[wrl]

ah so lightweight will get you through them - thanks for that - my reactions are pretty good so I always step back when I hear the click - i'm quite a cautious player anyway - 50% of the time I reckon I survive a claymore going off

I was just wondering though if a perk helped because most of the time i'm what I call a "semi camper" - I plot up in a room with only one or two entrances and a view of a high traffic area and and plant claymores - I use a Famas + M1014 (extended mags) with scavenger pro so when someone detonates them I collect theirs and replant - if they detonate a claymore but dont die then I switch to the M1014 and clear up - i'll sit on a room for 5 or 6 kills until it gets too hot to stay and then move and set up again - it works great for me when i'm in this mood but I also run and gun with dual MP5K's and a shotty if I get bored

anyway, recently i've noticed opponents either running straight through them without the claymore tripping or in a few cases actually jumping over them

so yeah I just wondered if a perk helped to do this as i'll experiment with it on my run and gun classes

cheers again

[mw0swedeking]

part of it is just how the claymore is placed...

\_/ <---There is our claymore, if you go past it parallel to the actual claymore, it is not hard to run past the small distance that the claymore damages before it goes off. If you're farther away you have less chance, and if you're running straight at it, it should detonate before you can go past (assuming you triggered it at it's max distance).

[wrl]

cheers for that - I always place them at a slight angle to a door so you cant spot them as easily but i'll have to be more careful if you can get through them easier with lightweight

it just made me wonder because like today I was playing skidrow and was in the room facing the video store with the rail gun in - I had a claymore at each door (as you would) and was using the Famas to pick off anyone coming through the store - I checked my right and saw a guy running towards the steps leading up to the rail gun so I backed off into the corner of the room facing the door with the M1014 and waited for him to either trip the mine and die, trip it and run in with his arms hanging off or flash/nade the room and then shoot the mine (if they do this I go prone or take cover) but this guy clear jumped the mine without it tripping, or fizzing or anything

he still got a face full of shotty but it did stump me for a bit!

it happened again a few games later but I wasnt watching if it was the same guy - maybe he has a technique for jumping them?!

[scubasteve]

The perk: Lightweight.

[dchoi41]

You'd probably have noticed from your radar, but jammer pro will also delay claymore detonation for 3 seconds.

[edgalang]

dchoi41: is the most accurate...however the perk is called "Scrambler Pro". I have seen as many as 3 guys run past the same claymore WITHOUT killing any of them. I always have this perk on when fighting in a group. Perfect when you have one man army, so I can dynamically switch between a group (scrambler pro) or a solo (ninja pro) offensive.

[hotobu]

Well if you have OMA you can do what I do sometimes. Put a C4 in the Claymore's blast area. You can Lightweight Marathon all you want, but you ain't out running that.

[xenon]

SitRep is good for spotting enemy claymores (and Pro version let you pretty much penetrate kill opponents that does not have NInja Pro without ever see them). Pack a high damage rifle with FMJ and you are set to detonate them enemy Claymores through walls, ceilings or floors...

Scrambler Pro let you delay claymores up to 3 seconds. You could probably crawl pass it in final stand without dying from the claymore.

Lightweight let you sprint /or sprint+jump/ over almost all claymores.

Being careful and walking really slow you can trigger the claymore and back down behind cover before it explode.

I believe the blast shield equipment or Riot Shield Primary weapon (or both, they stack) let you survive a claymore at the edge of the blast radius, but not in Touch Football mode.

Flash and Stun both disable the claymore (and the camper) for a few seconds so that it will not trigger. They have an AoE effect that goes through walls and floors which disable Claymores. There does not have to be a line of sight from the flash/stun to the claymore, as long as it is in range.

Explosives, such as frag, semtex, C4, n00b, launcers etc also detonate claymores...

[cptmacmillan]

Pack a high damage rifle with FMJ and you are set to detonate them enemy Claymores through walls, ceilings or floors...

Along with C4. Nothing like a good penetration kill gotten because you shot a c4 through a wall right as it was set.

I believe the blast shield equipment or Riot Shield Primary weapon (or both, they stack) let you survive a claymore at the edge of the blast radius, but not in Touch Football mode.

The blast shield doesn't let you survive any explosions in hardcore, with the exception of being on the very edge of the blast radius. On the other hand, if you angle your riot shield right, you can take 0 damage from the claymore even if you're at point blank, which means you'll survive it even in Hardcore.

[explosion101]

I love to use commando to fly past the claymore the guy set up

[mw0swedeking]

that's right, commando teleportation could do it, but it's kinda a douchebag move.

[mannon]

I do love using claymore+c4. You don't want to use it anywhere near you though, for obvious reasons. ;p As for jumping over the claymore at a guess the blast and detection arc is probably not limited to 2 dimensions.

You can see the lasers showing the horizontal arc. Vertically it almost certainly tapers down to the actual claymore as well, thus if you jump over the narrow end of the arc you can probably make it.

I couldn't tell you if it's actually cone shaped or more like a wedge, I'd suspect cone, though as it's a simpler shape as well as a bit more logical. But logic and realism are only minor things in game design. ;p

Since we're on the subject what are the best ways to use claymores to insure that they are both hard to see and most likely to kill and damage enemies. I mean I suppose you could always just plant it inside the room a little facing directly out the door so that there is almost no way to get through it without setting it off, but of course nearly everyone will see it.

I've been trying planting it to one side of the doorway and angling it to face more into the room. I've also been trying to put it a couple feet to the side of the door instead of right next to it since people would run through too fast right next to the door, but the greater the angle I put on it the closer I need to plant it.

They are much trickier than the betties in W@W but don't seem to have any extra range. That's probably for the best, though. Betties were a little cheap.

[revolution]

yeah scrambler pro also delays claymores, and (i think?) you can actually throw a stun at a claymore and it will malfunction...

[jlayman920]

Dec 28, 2009 12:18:58 GMT -5 mannon said:

Since we're on the subject what are the best ways to use claymores to insure that they are both hard to see and most likely to kill and damage enemies. I mean I suppose you could always just plant it inside the room a little facing directly out the door so that there is almost no way to get through it without setting it off, but of course nearly everyone will see it.

I've been trying planting it to one side of the doorway and angling it to face more into the room. I've also been trying to put it a couple feet to the side of the door instead of right next to it since people would run through too fast right next to the door, but the greater the angle I put on it the closer I need to plant it.

If planting it in a room, I try to angle it so that one edge of the beam is parallel with the door opening and it is angled out into the room.

Not that it's any great secret but if you play domination, always set one up toward the B flag in the poppy field on Afghan and the small garden beside A on Estate. You can leave the flag and it is almost a guaranteed defend and kill.

[mdnl]

Dec 28, 2009 12:18:58 GMT -5 mannon said:

Since we're on the subject what are the best ways to use claymores to insure that they are both hard to see and most likely to kill and damage enemies. I mean I suppose you could always just plant it inside the room a little facing directly out the door so that there is almost no way to get through it without setting it off, but of course nearly everyone will see it.

1. If there is a wall by the doorway use that to cover the claymore and face the claymore back into the room, it's practically impossible to avoid.

2. If no such wall exists you want to run one beam along the wall and the other facing the room, it's a smaller chance but unless they have lightweight or scrambler it should work.



Also, if using scavenger don't always make the same placement, they will get wise to it, try moving into another part of the building and putting the fresh claymore there.

The guy will try and trip the old placement then realise you're no longer around so will get back to his rushing and BOOM, he's dead.

[wrl]

hey mdnl and everyone else thanks

btw mdnl i'll try 1 & 2 and see how it goes - just prestiged again so I have to wait til level 42 (I think) for claymores now anyway - shouldnt be toooo long!

I've fallen in love with the FAMAS all over again - superb AR

thanks again

[ssog]

Dec 28, 2009 12:18:58 GMT -5 mannon said:

Since we're on the subject what are the best ways to use claymores to insure that they are both hard to see and most likely to kill and damage enemies. I mean I suppose you could always just plant it inside the room a little facing directly out the door so that there is almost no way to get through it without setting it off, but of course nearly everyone will see it.

I've been trying planting it to one side of the doorway and angling it to face more into the room. I've also been trying to put it a couple feet to the side of the door instead of right next to it since people would run through too fast right next to the door, but the greater the angle I put on it the closer I need to plant it.

They are much trickier than the betties in W@W but don't seem to have any extra range. That's probably for the best, though. Betties were a little cheap.

Personally, I consider myself a bit of a claymore connoisseur (I joke with my friends that they're the only reason I go positive, though there's a lot of truth to it). I actually prefer them to Betties, to be honest- I think they're straight-up more powerful. If you use them right, they're just as likely to get a kill in the hot zone, but you can use the "blind spots" to your advantage.

Anyway, there are only two times when you want to point a claymore directly at a doorway. The first time is when traffic flow frequently runs ACROSS the doorway even if the player has no intention of entering the building. For an example of this, think of the two houses on the western edge of Wasteland. A lot of people will flank around the map, sneaking behind those houses without ever entering. If you pop a claymore pointing directly outwards, then anyone running ACROSS the door will get toasted, as well as anyone entering the house. As an added bonus, thanks to the map boundaries, traffic is guaranteed to keep going cross-wise, meaning nobody can step back and look into the house without stepping into the killzone. Another great location for one of these "facing the door" plants is in the two-story house on the eastern edge of invasion. The only two ways into the house are the window and the door that you have to crouch under. Because it's on the second floor, the only way anyone can see a "directly outwards" claymore on the door is if they're already in the killzone. The window is exactly the same, although I prefer claymoring up the door and then tactical loitering the window because you'll get a lot of action down that street, and the window provides a better vantage than the balcony, imo.

The other time you'll want to put a claymore pointing outwards is if you're using it as a distraction. For instance, I might plant an extremely obvious claymore in one building, then go camp in a building across the way and pick off people who stop to blow up my decoy plant, or who rush into the other building assuming someone must be hiding in there.

A guy called outfoxem made a giant PDF claymore guide back in CoD4 that was pretty much required reading for anyone with aspirations of planting claymores. The original PDF is no longer available online, but someone has reposted the guide in its entirety right here. It's really mostly a starting point, but it'll give you an incredible foundation to build on.

[mannon]

Nifty guide, thanks. I was already more or less trying to work this stuff out on my own, but I had underestimated the range of them so it's good to know.

[wrl]

sweet guide - i'll deffo try planting with one beam running along the wall

thanks

[legacy]

I have had a little trouble adjusting to claymores.(and i am grateful not too many people seem to be using them) But I played W@W ALOT and betties where everywhere, so much so all my classes had bomb squad (except the anti-tank ones)

In W@W I trained myself to stop short when I ran into a betty, and maybe I would survive. MW2 I find it better to just continue sprinting and get to the other side of the claymore. Scrambler Pro and Lightweight nullified them and overall just running through them seems to work nicely.

[toysrme]

Dec 27, 2009 22:31:41 GMT -5 hotobu said:

Well if you have OMA you can do what I do sometimes. Put a C4 in the Claymore's blast area. You can Lightweight Marathon all you want, but you ain't out running that.

i do that in FFA also. (2nd story shower favela)
perks dont save someone when a claymore trips a C4 ;D

[ssog]

Dec 31, 2009 14:20:36 GMT -5 legacy said:

I have had a little trouble adjusting to claymores.(and i am grateful not too many people seem to be using them) But I played W@W ALOT and betties where everywhere, so much so all my classes had bomb squad (except the anti-tank ones)

In W@W I trained myself to stop short when I ran into a betty, and maybe I would survive. MW2 I find it better to just continue sprinting and get to the other side of the claymore. Scrambler Pro and Lightweight nullified them and overall just running through them seems to work nicely.

The only reason you can run through a claymore is because people aren't planting correctly. If someone does a really good claymore plant, the only way to survive is to slowly step in, then immediately back up when you get the click. And even that won't work against some particularly diabolical plants (i.e. where the claymore is in the opposite location of what you expect, so backing away from where you think it is still leaves you in the cone of where it really is).

Whenever I'm playing against my clan, they know I'm going to be planting claymores. It's what I do. I'd go so far as to say it's really the only thing that I do exceptionally well. I'm an average player who is awesome with claymores. Despite the fact that they know it's coming, I still get a kill on 80+% of my triggers (and most of the non-kills are a result of Scrambler, Flash/Stun grenades, or Semtex). Against randoms on XBox Live, make that 95% of my triggers unless I get greedy and go back to the well too many times (i.e. keep planting a claymore in the same location until the enemy finally figures out where it is and defuses).

A perfectly planted claymore will be well concealed, yet still angled enough that anyone who tries to sprint through will be sprinting at an angle to the claymore rather than parallel, which spells doom. Good claymore planters account for direction of travel.

[mannon]

Planting it back a ways like in that guide not only helps conceal the lasers and ensures people are running through the wide part of the wedge, it also makes it impossible to run though or jump over the narrow part even if they know it's there, thus no more hurdling.

My mistake was obviously in thinking that Claymores had a very short range like the betties did in W@W. Betties were almost always best planted as close to the doorway as possible while remaining concealed unless the enemy was expecting that.

It's almost ashame you can only plant claymores in the ground. ;p But then wall claymores would be just ebil. hehe C4 on the other hand can be planted on anything, and you can use a claymore for a trigger. It's a bit overkill, but still if you have the time to set it up why not. ;p

It's not necessarily the best for defending a tactical loitering spot, though. The nice thing about claymores for that job is their directionality. You can literally sit right next to your claymore safe and sound even if it gets tripped. But you don't want to be anywhere near your own C4, it's just embarrassing getting killed by your own trap.

[hotobu]

It's not true that a well placed Claymore can't be outran. Marathon + Lightweight will still let people outrun even the most perfectly placed Claymore. Tacking on an SMG makes it even more avoidable. The only way to make sure that there's no escape is to put down a C4 on top. I've seen guys with Marathon Lightweight and a care package flare get blown up by that. Depending on where you're putting your Claymore and how the other team plays you're likely to get some double kills like that.

[ssog]

Jan 2, 2010 11:25:22 GMT -5 hotobu said:

It's not true that a well placed Claymore can't be outran. Marathon + Lightweight will still let people outrun even the most perfectly placed Claymore. Tacking on an SMG makes it even more avoidable. The only way to make sure that there's no escape is to put down a C4 on top. I've seen guys with Marathon Lightweight and a care package flare get blown up by that. Depending on where you're putting your Claymore and how the other team plays you're likely to get some double kills like that.

Marathon+Lightweight+SMG will allow someone to outrun a claymore... provided they're running parallel to it, or at a shallow angle (say, under 30 degrees). Of course, if the guy can run at a shallow angle, then it wasn't a perfectly placed claymore.

Look at the two claymores in mdnl's picture. Those claymores cannot be outrun. The first claymore, because anyone will be running almost perpendicular to the claymore (certain doom), and the second claymore because there's not enough room to clear the blast by running perfectly parallel, the guy would have to curve towards the claymore to clear the blast, and there just wouldn't be enough time. Now, give someone a CP grenade and they can clear those two claymores, but Marathon/Lightweight alone won't cut it.

Also, who says perfect claymores are always planted where someone can sprint? Smart claymore users will claymore up objects that people hurdle over or crouch under, meaning they can't possibly sprint.

If planted in a location where the other guy CAN sprint, the key to claymores is using traffic patterns to force the enemy to run perpendicular to the claymore. Either plant it around a corner where the person is forced to turn and run directly towards the claymore, or plant it out of sight in a location where someone will enter the triggering radius directly by the claymore and then run directly AWAY from it

[hotobu]

Marathon+Lightweight+SMG will allow someone to outrun a claymore... provided they're running parallel to it, or at a shallow angle (say, under 30 degrees). Of course, if the guy can run at a shallow angle, then it wasn't a perfectly placed claymore.

Look at the two claymores in mdnl's picture. Those claymores cannot be outrun. The first claymore, because anyone will be running almost perpendicular to the claymore (certain doom), and the second claymore because there's not enough room to clear the blast by running perfectly parallel, the guy would have to curve towards the claymore to clear the blast, and there just wouldn't be enough time. Now, give someone a CP grenade and they can clear those two claymores, but Marathon/Lightweight alone won't cut it.

False. I've sat in bushes and watched people with Marathon and Lightweight outrun Claymores placed exactly like that. Sometimes I've even had Danger Close on at the time.

Also, who says perfect claymores are always planted where someone can sprint? Smart claymore users will claymore up objects that people hurdle over or crouch under, meaning they can't possibly sprint.

If planted in a location where the other guy CAN sprint, the key to claymores is using traffic patterns to force the enemy to run perpendicular to the claymore. Either plant it around a corner where the person is forced to turn and run directly towards the claymore, or plant it out of sight in a location where someone will enter the triggering radius directly by the claymore and then run directly AWAY from it

Get this theorycraft BS the fuck out of here. Not every doorway or throughway presents such an opportunity.

[ssog]

Jan 2, 2010 21:56:16 GMT -5 hotobu said:

Get this theorycraft BS the Foxtrot out of here. Not every doorway or throughway presents such an opportunity.

Well, luckily for me there's no rule that says I have to plant a claymore at every doorway or throughway, then.

You're absolutely right. Maybe 75% of doors and corners aren't ideally suited for claymores. That's why I plant my claymores at the other 25%. It's not like there's such a shortage of great locations that I'm ever forced to resort to good locations, instead.

[novanleon]

Dec 28, 2009 14:09:32 GMT -5 mdnl said:

Dec 28, 2009 12:18:58 GMT -5 mannon said:

Since we're on the subject what are the best ways to use claymores to insure that they are both hard to see and most likely to kill and damage enemies. I mean I suppose you could always just plant it inside the room a little facing directly out the door so that there is almost no way to get through it without setting it off, but of course nearly everyone will see it.

1. If there is a wall by the doorway use that to cover the claymore and face the claymore back into the room, it's practically impossible to avoid.

2. If no such wall exists you want to run one beam along the wall and the other facing the room, it's a smaller chance but unless they have lightweight or scrambler it should work.



Also, if using scavenger don't always make the same placement, they will get wise to it, try moving into another part of the building and putting the fresh claymore there.

The guy will try and trip the old placement then realise you're no longer around so will get back to his rushing and BOOM, he's dead.

Placement #1 is very effective and great for trapping the "Commando Runners". You will always have problems with Scrambler Pro though.

Placement #2 can be made more effective by pulling it back away from the door, causing it to trigger at the full extend of it's range. This way, if anyone runs in, it's much more likely to capture them in the full spread of the explosion and makes it harder to run by.