Weapon Discussions

[epicer]

Decided I'd like to start a thread discussing various mechanics and techincalities of a few particular weapons. Feel free if you would like to add your own weapon and discussion.

*Updated*

Sniper Rifles:
*The Intervention supposedly recenters faster after the bolt is pulled, but it's innoticable and unlikely as the Intervention actually has faster sway than the other Sniper Rifles, but perhaps faster sway=quicker time to recenter? Can it be tested? The Intervention should be balanced with 1hit kill to limbs in my opinion. Seems like the only weapon inferior to others of its class in every possible conceivable way...
*The Barrett .50 cal is obviously falsely represented in terms of power in this game.the Barrett should have 100 damage with 100x multiplier to the head and infinite penetration, and be capable of dismemberment like its counterpart in WaW. And while carrying a Barrett you should be slowed down to 70% movement speed, and ADS when not prone should take 2 seconds. Also, after every shot the shooter receives 10 damage from the recoil. Adding a different playstyle will at least encourage others to use the Intervention...
*Apparently the Barrett .50 has the highest penetration in-game. Seems likely considering that it uses the highest caliber round in the game.

Assault Rifles:
*M4 vs ACR? Through testing, I find that the slightly more significant recoil of the M4 will rarely throw off a shot. Aside from the slightly higher RoF, everyone assumes the ACR is superior to the M4 in every way. Personally I think the iron sights of the M4 is far better than the stupid obstructive iron sights of the ACR, which retardedly bounces up while firing to make following your target much harder. The same applies when using reflex sights. For this reason, I find the M4 slightly better while aiming and tracking a target. If anything, the kick of the weapon makes more bullets hit your intended target if you're slightly off. I also love the sound the M4 makes.

Shotguns:
*All shotguns suffer range reduction from attaching a Suppressor.
*What does the grip do for the SPAS-12? Hypothetically increases accuracy, range or pump rate? Supposed to reduce recoil, but everyone knows that's pointless for a pump-action shotgun.
*Everyone knows they have been nerfed in terms of range and damage while akimboed in the recent patch. But testing shows while used with Bling Pro to add FMJ to the Akimbo set up, the range returns to that of before the patch. The damage still seems to reduced though, as well as spread.
*The M1014 and Striker both have a fire rate cap, the Rangers fire as fast as someone can click/tap the triggers, generally faster than the than the delay between the muscle reaction of the less used right click finger. For this reason double tapping one button or trigger is a better idea for killing an enemy than firing both barrels, as it overcomes reload when facing multiple enemies in a short period of time.

Handguns:
*The USP seems to have less muzzle recoil than the M9 in MW2, opposite that of CoD4? Difficult to be tested due to variables such as manual firing speed. Anyway, the USP seems to be slightly better due to its much longer 2 hit kill range with Stopping power. But seriously, if you consider it, every single handgun is inferior to the Rafficca unless you want the silly Tactical Knife attachment which actually reduces your ability to kill an enemy unless you have auto-aim commando.

[toysrme]

the ranger simply has the highest ROF allowable by the game engine. in previous COD's this was noted as 1200rpm.

im not sure why the ITV is in the game either other than make bolt action people that dont know the difference happy.

[revolution]

Technicalities for the Ak47:
-It sways when it has any attachment on it.

Technicalities for M16:
-It has a VERY slight idle sway
-You have to hold your breath to steady a Thermal scope on an M16

[i8]

the barrett .50cal in this game does not fire a .50cal bullet this one is the weaker semi auto version it still has that name because its a trademark of the company

[snakex]

Dec 28, 2009 8:44:27 GMT -5 epicer said:

Decided I'd like to start a thread discussing various mechanics and techincalities of a few particular weapons. Feel free if you would like to add your own weapon and discussion. Excuse me if I'm sounding stupid at the moment, it's 1 am in the morning.

-SPAS-12-

-Uses of grip
*What does it do? Hypothetically increases accuracy, range or pump rate? Supposed to reduce recoil, but everyone knows that's pointless for a pump-action shotgun. What did grip do for the W1200 in CoD4, can anyone relate to it?
-When silenced
*Apparently the range is not reduced at all, or reduced very slightly in comparison to the other suppressed shotguns. Possibly reduces damage. Confirmation please.

-Intervention-

-Benefits?
*Supposedly recenters faster after the bolt is pulled, but it's innoticable and unlikely as the Intervention actually has faster sway than the other Sniper Rifles, but perhaps faster sway=quicker time to recenter? Can it be tested? Seems to be inferior in EVERY WAY to the Barrett .50 caliber. The Intervention should be balanced with 1hit kill to limbs, even though the .50 caliber round from the Barrett should have 100 damage with 100x multiplier to the head and infinite penetration, and be capable of dismemberment like its counterpart in WaW. And while carrying a Barrett you should be slowed down to 70% movement speed, and ADS when not prone should take 2 seconds. Also, after every shot the shooter receives 10 damage from the recoil.

-Shotguns in general-

-Damage
*Sources indicate that all shotguns fire 6-8 pellets a shot dealing 35 damage each. Would this render Stopping Power comepletely useless? Except for the shotguns with damage falloff like the SPAS.
-Fire rate
*M1014 and Striker have the same fire rate cap? The Ranger seems to be the only shot gun with an uncapped fire rate. For this reason, each Akimboed Ranger should be fired seperately to minimize time vulnerable while reloading.


Gah, my mind's blank I'll think up of something next morning. Meanwhile discuss my poorly structured post. I'll try to keep this constantly updated.

look my shotguns stats.
every shotgun has his own dmg and range, with and without silencer.
and not every shotgun deals with 35dmg
example: spas have 40dmg per pellet and aa-12 20dmg per pellet
and SP makes sense to use it. and with SP the Ranger have105dmg

[sleep]

I'm pretty sure the spas-12 has it's range reduced to about 2/3 of it's normal range when silenced, like the other shotguns. also, i thought it dealt flat damage per pellet, no?

[sleep]

further, I think the grip is in fact rather useless with the spas. I prefer extended mags for this gun.

[acidsnow]

As I've said before, the SPAS-12 does not benefit from the Grip, because it fires so slowly that it has already re-centered before the next shot is ready to fire. And that FMJ is glitched on the SPAS-12, and does not function whatsoever! ...The only attachment I use on it is extended-mags (until IW patches the FMJ problem).

[cptmacmillan]

Somebody PLEASE tell me where it was confirmed FMJ doesn't work on SPAS-12! The only thing I've seen is that the fireworks don't show up, not that it doesn't work. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want proof.

[ice597]

internvention and barrett should at least get OHK supressed w/o sp
i find that the range of the spas 12 is reduced by what appears to be a quarter to a third for me when i throw a supressor on it, at least the OHK range.
From the saying ablility to penetrate any wall, you are saying you can just shoot it right across favela in the buildings?

[acidsnow]

Dec 28, 2009 18:22:50 GMT -5 cptmacmillan said:

Somebody PLEASE tell me where it was confirmed FMJ doesn't work on SPAS-12! The only thing I've seen is that the fireworks don't show up, not that it doesn't work. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want proof.

This forum is full of info, if there's something you don't believe then test it yourself.

[cptmacmillan]

Yes sir.

I mostly tested some killstreak stuff, but I did the SPAS while I was at it. The test involved a thin wall, no stopping power or steady aim, shot aimed at torso (no ADS), with both players standing right up on the wall.

With regular: 33 damage registered four times. Three were headshots and one was a bodyshot, all did same damage so no headshot modifier.

With FMJ: 33 damage three times, 27 damage one time. The 27 seemed completely random, not sure what caused it. Regardless there did not appear to be any increase in damage.

Because I cared about killstreaks more I only did this test once figuring it would be enough, I could repeat it ten times or so if anybody wants me to.

[epicer]

Updated.

[xg08zero]

hmmm didn't cross my mind that the grip reduces recoil, not increases accuracy, so true, the grip on the Spas-12 is a waste

guess I should get to work on extended mags. shame that none of its attachments are particularly useful (I use SoH Pro with my Spas-12 class, so even extended mags is so-so)

[mannon]

Dec 28, 2009 13:10:49 GMT -5 revolution said:

Technicalities for the Ak47:
-It sways when it has any attachment on it.

Technicalities for M16:
-It has a VERY slight idle sway
-You have to hold your breath to steady a Thermal scope on an M16

The AK47 has sway with all attachments except the ACOG. Apparently IW decided that the extra recoil was enough and it didn't need sway with an ACOG, though oddly enough it will sway with FMJ, or HBS, ect...

The M16 like a few other weapons has a very apparent breathing type of animation that looks like idle sway, but actually does not move the sights off target.

Thermal scopes are scopes and not reflex sights. Holding your breath to steady the sway while using a thermal is not limited to the M16. In other words, thermal scope adds sway.

Some people actually prefer the Intervention for faster reloads or just find it easier to line up shots with. I find that I'm able to line up a second shot just a tad quicker with the Barret, but not by much due to the recoil. For me it's a tradeoff due to having more total ammo, but I like to reload after every kill so the faster reload is very welcome. The Intervention feels like it floats back to idle while the Barret feels more like it darts back to center and then idles, just because the recoil is so fast and strait, which makes it easier for me, but not everyone. In practical terms these are the same gun with only subtle differences. One's practical ROF is hard limited by the firetime, while the other is limited by recoil, though you can spam at very close targets. Both are outclassed by the WA2000 and M21EBR as far as I'm concerned, though. Even the bigger 1HK area when going SP without a silencer just isn't as valuable to me. (If I do happen to hit the stomach with the WA2K or M21 I can still follow up with a second shot but if I hit a limb or nothing at all with a Barret or Intervention I'm basically screwed. On top of that the WA2K and M21are better for hitting multiple targets before they can yell sniper and run away.)

ACR vs M4 depends on what you prefer and what you're doing with them. For me the M4 ROF isn't enough faster than the ACR to be more than negligible, especially since I prefer longer range fights. Besides, ACR headshots FTW. I still aim for centermass with the M4. But it does have it's uses and some will prefer it.

For testing FMJ if a wall is too thin it might not offer enough damage reduction to properly test. You ideally need a wall that will result in something like a 1/2 reduction on damage vs no penetration. Do the testing within the minimum range of the gun for maximum damage, and do a no penetration test with the same methodology at the same range for a control. If FMJ works based on the same rules as Deep Impact then it should boost a 1/2 damage reduced penetration up to 90% or 95% damage, if it's functioning at all, otherwise of course you should still get 1/2 damage.

Aside from that I've heard elsewhere on this board that FMJ is bugged on the Spas and not working, so personally I'm inclined to believe it, especially since you can clearly see the lack of fireworks.

[mw0swedeking]

FAL: This gone seems almost entirely worthless. At any range or with lateral movement, the practical RoF is about the same as the FAMAS or M16, which are both one burst kills. Add to that that it has the lowest range of any AR, making it's 2 shot kill range significantly shorter than the rest which makes it a semi auto SCAR with a longer reload, bad sights, and more recoil (I think). Sure it gets little benefit from stopping power (except for aforementioned range, which it could be argued makes it very reliant on SP), but all the ARs are pretty much fine without SP also. Anyways, I still use it sometimes because I am personally opposed to the FAMAS and M16, but it seems like possibly the worst gun in the game.

[chip sandwich]

^ I used to be personally opposed to the M16, Explosives and "tactical loitering", but in MW2 I really don't care anymore. So long as I don't stay in a 512 unit radius without earning any objective based points for 60 seconds, how I kill people doesn't really bother me. Anyway...

Desert Eagle: Honestly, this thing just depresses me. It used to be good without being too OP (the fake recoil obscured long range targets quite a bit), but now it is absolutely horrible. Not only does it have much more sight recoil than the .44, but it also seems to have a completely arbitrary fire rate cap as well as hip recoil. Sure, it has one more bullet and faster reload, but the .44 has a better add time, which kind of nullifies that advantage. There are a bunch of other former favorites or cinematic weapons (i.e. AK-47, Barrett, Intervention, SPAS-12, Model 1887, M16A4) which can function well, but apparently the Desert Eagle was too popular in CoD 4, and needed to be relegated to "niche weapon".

[ssog]

Dec 31, 2009 6:14:54 GMT -5 chip sandwich said:

^ I used to be personally opposed to the M16, Explosives and "tactical loitering", but in MW2 I really don't care anymore. So long as I don't stay in a 512 unit radius without earning any objective based points for 60 seconds, how I kill people doesn't really bother me. Anyway...

Desert Eagle: Honestly, this thing just depresses me. It used to be good without being too OP (the fake recoil obscured long range targets quite a bit), but now it is absolutely horrible. Not only does it have much more sight recoil than the .44, but it also seems to have a completely arbitrary fire rate cap as well as hip recoil. Sure, it has one more bullet and faster reload, but the .44 has a better add time, which kind of nullifies that advantage. There are a bunch of other former favorites or cinematic weapons (i.e. AK-47, Barrett, Intervention, SPAS-12, Model 1887, M16A4) which can function well, but apparently the Desert Eagle was too popular in CoD 4, and needed to be relegated to "niche weapon".

The AK-47 and M16 both got nerfed, too. The AK-47 is a balanced gun that the developers then gave idle (making it underpowered compared to its peers), and the M16 is strictly inferior to the FAMAS. Add in the fact that the MP5 is the worst SMG (or, at least, fighting hard with the Vector for that distinction), and all of a sudden the four most popular weapons in CoD4 all rate as "worst in class" in MW2.