Spawn system

[fuloser]

So what affects spawns in MW2?

Obviously enemy presence. A grenade about to explode. Bullets flying.


But what I have also been hearing is things like:

1. Having a UAV will result in better spawns.

2. Cold-blooded is a double edge sword in that
A) Your presence will not effect the enemies spawns because "The Game" does not know you are there.

a) This will cause people to spawn around you and can get you easy kills and someone on the other team will complain saying what the hell I spawned right next to him!

b) This will cause people to spawn around you and can get easily killed and you will scream at your tv saying what the hell he spawned right behind me!


Can anyone verify this? Anything in the code that anyone knows of that effects spawns? I know depending on game type, and number of players the spawns can be greatly effected.

For example: Play 1v1 on derail. People will say omfg derail is to big to play 1 on 1.....no it isn't. I guarantee you when you die you will spawn not to far from the other guy just out of line of sight, basically 1v1 seems to end up shrinking the map size to the size of rust by using spawn areas, regardless of what map you are playing.


Also I have heard many people say that the spawn system is crap and halo's was so much better. I really disagree with this statement.

1) In halo i could aim my sniper rifle right at a spawn and a guy would spawn there and boom, easy head shot.

2) In MW2 besides when using a Gunner Chopper, missile, or AC130.....I really can't think of any times I have actually SEEN someone spawn, as in poof there they are, right out of thin air.

Also if you say yes you have, think about how many times, now compare that to how many spawns take place a game, how many games you have played.......you see my point.

[playn]

i highly doubt UAV has anything to do with spawn placement
if it does then thats just a fail on IW's part

[fuloser]

Dec 30, 2009 22:32:52 GMT -5 playn said:

i highly doubt UAV has anything to do with spawn placement
if it does then thats just a fail on IW's part

Why would it be a fail? you are stealth, why shouldn't you be able to go into enemy turf? what would the point of stealth be if you killed on person then the entire team respawns on the other side of the map?

[fuloser]

Dec 30, 2009 22:39:12 GMT -5 fuloser said:

Dec 30, 2009 22:32:52 GMT -5 playn said:

i highly doubt UAV has anything to do with spawn placement
if it does then thats just a fail on IW's part

Also by UAV, people might actually be thinking of how recon works. If I know where an enemy is, for instance I see him, you won't spawn next to him, but instead spawn near me to help me engage the enemy.

this would be player awareness factor. Obviously a UAV tells everyone where almost everyone is, hence UAV helps the player awareness factor.

[mw0swedeking]

I'll just say that whenever I try and go into the enemy spawn or flank around behind with my CB class what ends up happening is my team spawns behind me and screws over my position.

[playn]

it would be fail because why make the spawn system only work properly when a UAV is out? thats just ridiculous. the spawn system should always be at its very best all the time

[fuloser]

Dec 31, 2009 0:15:50 GMT -5 playn said:

it would be fail because why make the spawn system only work properly when a UAV is out? thats just ridiculous. the spawn system should always be at its very best all the time

No I have only heard it works "better" when a UAV is out because almost all enemy positions are "known"

This may have something to do with how spawns in a lot of games work.

For instance:

You have a 10m bubble around you, your value is -500 to your enemies, +1000 to your allies.

When you die you want to respawn in positive areas, for instance, next to an ally, cause he is +1000, and not right next to the enemy because he is -500.

Anything outside these bubbles is 0

Cold-Blood may shrink your bubble from 10m to 5m.

This is how spawn traps work. The area immediately around you is high positive because you have a lot of ally's there, the area all around you is super negative.

This is why when you are spawn trapping the other team you do not want to "push" to far in, you are bringing your negative bubble in too close and will cause the game to eventually randomly spawn the other team somewhere else on the map.

When someone is glowing on the radar this may make there spawn bubble "increase" to something like 15m, this making the spawns better. It may also increase the enemies negative values as an alternative method.

These are the numbers we need to find ;D

[fuloser]

Dec 30, 2009 23:34:30 GMT -5 mw0swedeking said:

I'll just say that whenever I try and go into the enemy spawn or flank around behind with my CB class what ends up happening is my team spawns behind me and screws over my position.

Your team is dieing to much

Also about the bubble spawns, If cold-blood does effect spawn bubbles then if you have CB on then enemies should appear to spawn closer than normal to you at times when compared to not having it.

Also compare your spawns and distance to enemies when a UAV is up vs not..

Obviously this is very hard to test, this is why some type of code is needed.

[n1gh7]

fuloser

the spawns in this game are not like halo's. use the search thing to find the thread about cod4's spawn system. we need to use that as a starting point, not halo's

[fuloser]

Dec 31, 2009 1:30:22 GMT -5 n1gh7 said:

fuloser

the spawns in this game are not like halo's. use the search thing to find the thread about cod4's spawn system. we need to use that as a starting point, not halo's

It's an example, and yes, most games actually use that system, its the depth of the system that varies game to game.

I have searched but to much non related stuff shows up in searches, type in cod in google and you can see what perks the new MW2 game will have!......when it is realesed....lol.

[fuloser]

Dec 31, 2009 1:30:22 GMT -5 n1gh7 said:

fuloser

the spawns in this game are not like halo's. use the search thing to find the thread about cod4's spawn system. we need to use that as a starting point, not halo's

Also nothing but complaints show up

[scubasteve]

So damn often do i see someone die then kill me when i watch kill cams, it pisses me off.

[Indy_Bones]

I don't care how they've worked out the spawn system, but it's seriously crap tbh.

I've had a number of occurences where it respawns me about 2-3 feet in front of an enemy, the problem being that I'm facing the opposite way, so don't even get chance to shoot them before I'm hit in the back. This in itself is annoying, but when it happens 4 times in a row (on Sub Base yesterday), then it's pad smashingly annoying.

Add this to constant spawns in the middle of nowhere with no cover in sight when the enemy has a chopper gunner/harrier/pave low etc, along with spawns right under AC-130 shots or predators, and the highly annoying spawns right in the path of a claymore, and you've got a seriously poor system.

[a20ftgreatwhite]

the way i see it is the game only has so many spots it can spot you on a map, i get this because i generally spawn from the same points depending on the situation. i feel that mw2 tends to spawn you closer to the enemy that killed you while trying to spawn you close to your teammates. i like this idea sorta but when you got enemies positioned around the map and it being a smaller map well i mean shit it has to spawn you somewhere ya know. if you wanted the game to avoid putting you into a bad spot it have to take into account a lot of stuff. idk.. also i think the game factors the exact moment you spawn too, like i dont think it takes into account if the enemy has marathon and lightweight and just happens to be running in the direction your gonna spawn in or if a predator is going to hit there. idk just my 2cents, it fustrates me too sometimes

[fuloser]

Dec 31, 2009 5:18:04 GMT -5 a20ftgreatwhite said:

the way i see it is the game only has so many spots it can spot you on a map, i get this because i generally spawn from the same points depending on the situation. i feel that mw2 tends to spawn you closer to the enemy that killed you while trying to spawn you close to your teammates. i like this idea sorta but when you got enemies positioned around the map and it being a smaller map well i mean doo-doo it has to spawn you somewhere ya know. if you wanted the game to avoid putting you into a bad spot it have to take into account a lot of stuff. idk.. also i think the game factors the exact moment you spawn too, like i dont think it takes into account if the enemy has marathon and lightweight and just happens to be running in the direction your gonna spawn in or if a predator is going to hit there. idk just my 2cents, it fustrates me too sometimes

Yeah all games run an algorithm right at the moment you are about to spawn. If the spawn is clear at that moment in time, you can spawn there.

The game definitely has spawn points, but there may be over 200 of them on each map.

[Indy_Bones]

Dec 31, 2009 10:35:57 GMT -5 fuloser said:

Yeah all games run an algorithm right at the moment you are about to spawn. If the spawn is clear at that moment in time, you can spawn there.

The game definitely has spawn points, but there may be over 200 of them on each map.

Assuming that's the case (and I appreciate we have no figures for this), it's almost criminal that with so many spawn points, the game is seemingly unable to put you in a fair position half of the time.

At most there are 9 opposing players on the map, so even if each player was covering 10 spawn points each, there should still be loads available that don't cause instakill from behind when you arrive there...

[n1gh7]

check this: denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=102&page=1

[Den]

While still similar to COD4/COD2 spawn zones, MW2's spawn logic uses arrays of spawnpoints littered throughout the map, governed by line of sight and measuring the "weight" between proximity to enemies and allies.

It will attempt to put players at an ideal range from and out of sight from the enemy, at least 1600 units of measurement - while being at the spawnpoint nearest the most allies.

Along with enemy location, there is also a favoring of spawning next to live players - a camper hiding in the ass end of nowhere can hinder a team by being in a crappy spot far away from the objectives.

There are also a few things in the spawnlogic that indicate that excessive deaths will cause the team to spawn way way away. So a gruesome battle over a Headquarters will not go in favor of those who suicidally rush into the point only to be killed.

Basically, it does what WaW did, but with safeguards to prevent stuff like spawning in the same room as an enemy and being split in half at two opposite spawnpoints on the map.

_spawnlogic.gsc is huge at 50kb of text, only a few other .gsc files are bigger than that.
I've only taken a brief look at it so far.

[n1gh7]

@den

Do you have a background in coding or did you learn how to interpret the.gsc rips and code as you charted the games? or what?

[Den]

Bit of both.

Also, the developer //notes help.

[mannon]

Nice to know how it works or attempts to. ;p I suppose that spawning nearish to enemies keeps the pace up, but damn it gets me killed a lot too as I'm dealing with spawn disorientation and trying to figure out where my teammates and the enemies are relative to my new location.

[mw0swedeking]

I was playing a little CoD4 last night, which is still awesome, but geez I noticed how bad those spawns were. It didn't help that the team I was playing against was horrible, but I saw herds of them coming out of corners of the map all the time. I got two collaterals and a 4 kill silenced USP spree as everyone walked out in front of me not knowing I was there. And once I got killed because 4 or 5 guys spawned immediately behind me.

[scb]

One time on Derail on a whim I dropped a claymore on my team's initial spawn point. After traveling about 3/4 of the way across the map I saw the +100. I about fell on the floor laughing.

The current system bugs me a lot of the time though. I kind of expect being shot after about two steps on a map like Rust, but on some place like Sub Base, I really don't see a reason for it. I generally play Team Deathmatch and about a third of that map isn't really used.

I would prefer there to be an option for whether you want to spawn closer to your team or further away from your enemies. I've has situations where I've died to an AC130 while Cold Blooded, simply because another person and I have spawned in the same place at the same time.

[toad]

What Den has posted makes sense, although I think the "spawn logic" fails with regard to the 1600 units of measurements. Many times I've spawned with my back to the enemy, just a few feet away.

Players definitely spawn from other players. I like to run off at the beginning of a game, and it doesn't take long before my team start spawning next to me. Very annoying, as I'm trying to be all sneaky with Cold Blooded, Ninja, Silencer etc.

[mw0swedeking]

Jan 2, 2010 3:52:35 GMT -5 scb said:

One time on Derail on a whim I dropped a claymore on my team's initial spawn point. After traveling about 3/4 of the way across the map I saw the +100. I about fell on the floor laughing.

I have tried to do that but it never worked for me. I just assumed it wouldn't work so I stopped)

[ssog]

Jan 2, 2010 3:52:35 GMT -5 scb said:

One time on Derail on a whim I dropped a claymore on my team's initial spawn point. After traveling about 3/4 of the way across the map I saw the +100. I about fell on the floor laughing.

It's far more likely that you caught a would-be flanker sniffing around your spawn for stragglers than it is that an enemy actually spawned inside your claymore. The only time I've ever gotten anyone to spawn in a claymore is when I've dropped one on a Tactical Insertion.

[mannon]

Actually I don't think it's all that unlikely at all. I get constantly annoyed while playing Highrise in TDM when I go to the trouble of claymoring our stairs and sneaking through the tunnels to the enemy building to catch them from behind and by the time I get there it's changed hands and our team is respawning there instead. That happened to me several times in one game on Highrise. I finally just gave up on flanking them, it was impossible. I'd have done better hiding in some far off corner of our own base and waiting for it to become their base. ;p

I think the 1600 units of measure does work, but absolutely does not take movement into consideration and doesn't face you towards nearby enemies or anything. Since it doesn't account for movement an enemy moving your direction is already much closer on their end than on the Host or your end, due to latency.

Personally I'd rather spawn further away and have to run a little ways to get to the action than get spawn killed. As is I usually roll with Painkiller just to keep the frustration down and I don't even really like Painkiller, it's just the only thing short of a tactical insertion that I can use to fight bad respawns.

That's also a reason why I rather liked the respawning in TFC. It was possbile sometimes to trap a team in their respawn room, but only with explosive spam, and they made it harder to do. I rather liked knowing I had a 98% safe place to respawn and always knowing which side of the map was ours and which was theirs. With MW2 it's sometimes difficult to tell where enemy territory is without a UAV. Hell I've played a game where I was flanking around the edge of the map and made a complete 360 of the entire map and then some without finding a single enemy. heh Granted that was bad luck, but it was due to not knowing where to go to find enemies. Nobody had a UAV up and they were only showing up sporadically on radar when they shot or were seen and killed, and they were all too far away to see in my minimap, but sitting there with the full map up only seemed to serve to make me stationary. It was rather annoying. I suppose I shoulda just suicided, then I'd have been close to enemies. ;p

[scb]

Jan 2, 2010 15:12:15 GMT -5 ssog said:

Jan 2, 2010 3:52:35 GMT -5 scb said:

One time on Derail on a whim I dropped a claymore on my team's initial spawn point. After traveling about 3/4 of the way across the map I saw the +100. I about fell on the floor laughing.

It's far more likely that you caught a would-be flanker sniffing around your spawn for stragglers than it is that an enemy actually spawned inside your claymore. The only time I've ever gotten anyone to spawn in a claymore is when I've dropped one on a Tactical Insertion.

I was on the Task Force 141 side of Derail, so the reason that I assumed it was someone respawning in that spot was because the initial TF141 spawn point is so far in the corner of that parking lot, it didn't seem to me like a place anybody would go (they'd just visually inspect that there was nobody there). But it is possible that either a) someone was just circling the edge of the map, or b) there was a straggler and someone just walked up to knife them.

My theory was that my team sprinted to the factory, and theirs sprinted to the building, so the sides got switched immediately, but who knows. I'll keep trying it and see if it ever happens again.

[bradqqqqq]

Three times today I saw my self spawn in the killcam.

[xenon]

Dec 30, 2009 22:39:12 GMT -5 fuloser said:

Dec 30, 2009 22:32:52 GMT -5 playn said:

i highly doubt UAV has anything to do with spawn placement
if it does then thats just a fail on IW's part

Why would it be a fail? you are stealth, why shouldn't you be able to go into enemy turf? what would the point of stealth be if you killed on person then the entire team respawns on the other side of the map?

If your entire team is on the other side and you are alone on the enemy side, they will spawn "around" you (close, but not in your direct line of sight - maybe just behind a wall or in the next room) - I have seen it several times.

Edit: for example, skidrow. Enemy team is at the machine gun nest and my team is at the other side. I rush over and kill 3-4 guys at the machinegun nest, walk back down the stairs almost down to the that green room. Stop. Rush back up. They spawned up in the machine gun nest again.

But if i would hang out in the machine gun nest they would spawn in the right or left side of the map (maybe close to the "sniper" tunnel or the "T-Junction" - depending on where their allies and my allies are at the moment of spawn).

I play on Touch Football, so the map is not rotating as fast as it normally does on death match.

Also, same map. If one member of the team for example camp in the two-story sniper building overlooking the "sniper tunnel" and keep him self alive while the rest of the team rotate around the map, killing and dying in the process. Odds are your team will still spawn at the two-story sniper building side of the map. If all members push the same way around the map (dying and killing their way), spawn locations for both teams will rotate around the map as you progress around it.

Same scenario, your team rush around the map - but this time without dying. The solo sniper in the two-story building will start to get enemies spawning in close proximity - in this case towards the containers behind the fence (think one of the teams have this as a start location - no direct line of sight to the two-story sniper building, but can picked off as they leave spawn).

Highrise, rushing tunnels under the map and up on the other side. Often most people on both teams have been killed and start to spawn at the new building. However, if playing defensively enough, not dying. Your team will still spawn at the side you left and you might get a few kills at the enemy side of the map. However, enemies will now probably spawn in the middle of the map (since your team "control" both buildings). Same as if your team is spread out on the crane side of the map your opponents will spawn on the far side (heli-pad side).

If YOU wish to keep spawn behind enemy lines, you use Tactical Insertion (that you can pick up and re-place as the battle moves on). You also need to constantly try to move to the opposite side of the map compared to your entire team.