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Post by ingulit on Jan 4, 2014 21:08:42 GMT -5
Full disclosure: I really liked Black Ops II (while it had some flaws, it is still my favorite COD thus far), primarily because it was one of the least frustrating CODs I've played. I knew going into Ghosts that there were going to be a lot of things that would probably irk me, and while I've gotten over most things, there is still one thing that is extrodinarily irritating: IEDs.
In my mind, Black Ops II did the whole "place-and-forget" explosives thing perfectly with the Bouncing Betty + Claymore combo, and good god do I prefer it to Ghosts' system. If you wanted an omnidirectional and/or throwable explosive, you had the Betty, but that was balanced by the fact that skilled players could avoid the explosion. If you wanted an explosive that is very difficult to avoid, you had the claymore, but because they are not omnidirectional, require planting, and are reasonably visible due to the tripwires, they were balanced by the fact that they required skill to use properly.
IEDs took all of this skill testing and completely threw it out the window. Now you have a throwable and difficult to see explosive that sticks to anything (compounding the difficulty in spotting them since they aren't just on the ground) that is omnidirectional and nearly impossible to avoid once triggered. Now, instead of requiring tactical placement and weighing tradeoffs between the explosives, you have an obscenely easy to use equipment that mandates wasting points on Blast Shield or Sitrep to avoid. I'd much rather be skill tested by a Betty or be killed by a skillfully placed Claymore than have this stupid perk tax caused by this equipment.
I really, really hope the next game returns to the old equipment combo, because IEDs are beyond aggrivating this this game. /rant
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Slick
True Bro
Taking the piss
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Post by Slick on Jan 4, 2014 21:33:32 GMT -5
Sitrep Bro is worth it. Run assault, and have fun farming the support streaks.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Jan 4, 2014 21:58:03 GMT -5
Yeah, that sounds about right; nothing aggravates me more than said taxes. The IED, while not invincible, throws a lot of interesting dynamics right out of the window. :c
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Post by kryptdawg on Jan 5, 2014 0:40:10 GMT -5
Doge > IED in annoyance Its super low killstreak and almost unavoidable in CQB and take lots of bullets to kill unlike IEDs Dog has no counter besides ballistic vests like i was fine with k9 unit cuz it was high killstreak but it take 5 kills to get this thing(4 with hardline) also ive been seeing lot less IEDs and more dogs
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Post by mw2baller on Jan 5, 2014 1:19:12 GMT -5
Also claymores and betties were balanced by engineer, EMPs, and blast shield which were really useful things that did more than just counter mines.
IEDs count for like 90% of my explosive deaths. I've died to 0 canister bombs, fausts, and semtex launchers, less than 5 total semtexes and frags, a few c4s and noobtoobs across less than 5 games, and countless IEDs.
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Post by MastaQ on Jan 5, 2014 1:45:12 GMT -5
Also claymores and betties were balanced by engineer, EMPs, and blast shield which were really useful things that did more than just counter mines. IEDs count for like 90% of my explosive deaths. I've died to 0 canister bombs, fausts, and semtex launchers, less than 5 total semtexes and frags, a few c4s and Skill Cannons across less than 5 games, and countless IEDs. Seriously, there is almost zero reason to use anything but IEDs in this game (unless you're making a more specialized C4/shield class). C4 just takes too long to use, it's better to just set an IED and forget it.
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Post by ingulit on Jan 5, 2014 1:53:59 GMT -5
Doge > IED in annoyance Its super low killstreak and almost unavoidable in CQB and take lots of bullets to kill unlike IEDs Dog has no counter besides ballistic vests like i was fine with k9 unit cuz it was high killstreak but it take 5 kills to get this thing(4 with hardline) also ive been seeing lot less IEDs and more dogs This is the other main complaint I have with the game; dogs are STUPID low on the killstreak ladder, and the only reason I can fathom as to why its spot wasn't switched with the Trinity Rocket is because of the damn microtransaction Wolf that requires frequent Dog usage to be worth the money. If it has to be in the game, I'd be much happier with it at between 7-9 points, but it's way too good (and frequently and infuriatingly undetectible due to its small size and near quiet approach) to be sitting at 5.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jan 5, 2014 9:22:52 GMT -5
IEDs comparatively are much more powerful in terms of usability. It's basically a lethal silent shock charge. That being said I've run into a lot less of them for some reason. Also W@W betties are still best betties. No flashing lights and smallest profile
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Jan 5, 2014 10:15:33 GMT -5
The doge isn't even that good. It usually either does nothing or gets you a single revenge kill. It's only really good in FFA Tremor.
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Post by sirknumskull on Jan 5, 2014 10:59:40 GMT -5
It's not about it's effectiveness (which isn't really great), it's about how annoying it is. Martyr-Dog is as annoying as martyrdom.
Same goes for IEDs. No skill required, but they are avoidable if you listen for them while coming around corners. Even without blast shield you can get out of the lethal radius. It's alot harder than avoiding BO2 betties though.
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Post by bmac39 on Jan 5, 2014 13:08:00 GMT -5
Dogs are the best reason to have everyone on your team run Ballistic Vests.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jan 5, 2014 13:12:03 GMT -5
Dogs are the best reason to have everyone on your team run Ballistic Vests. Conversely having your entire team running dogs and AP rounds makes for rage lulzy games in case they pull out Vests
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ookjawa
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Post by ookjawa on Jan 5, 2014 13:28:46 GMT -5
Rushers are already at enough of a disadvantage in CoD games. The fact that I can't run past the lethal range of those goofy IEDs with Agility and Marathon (unlike most of the other planted explosives in the series) is incredibly annoying.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jan 5, 2014 14:23:41 GMT -5
Rushers are already at enough of a disadvantage in CoD games. What? Black Ops 2 favoured rushing game play a lot, hence the rage over the PDW and the MSMC at the start of the game. ARs and SMGs were only really the main gun types. Sniping in maps that are about the size of two blocks on my street? Dropshot ability and no limb multipliers of less than 1 mean rush monkeys can use their reflexes far too easily. Scavenger promoted rushing game play as it refilled everything. Want a refill? Rush for that kill. Small 3 lane MLG maps still puts rushers at a disadvantage to you? Ghost perk only active when players are moving even snipers? Good way to get people like my who have never "run and gun" with a sniper rifle to learn how to railgun. The only disadvantage for rushing is the consistent overly nerfing of shotguns but that's just to shut up the SMG monkeys.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jan 5, 2014 15:26:06 GMT -5
IEDs took all of this skill testing and completely threw it out the window. Now you have a throwable and difficult to see explosive that sticks to anything (compounding the difficulty in spotting them since they aren't just on the ground) that is omnidirectional and nearly impossible to avoid once triggered. Thank you for the tip - I forgot I could use ceiling to place IED ... I had more kills per use w/ clays than w/ IED. BO2 clays: 20.3% kills Ghost IED: 18.7% kills Mines in Ghost must be omnidirectional and hard to spot from a distance, otherwise they could be easily avoided or destroyed or impossible to place correctly. I agree, IED might be annoying, same w/ dogs or other lethal toys. but in COD:MP one guy's frustration is other guy's glory, and FPS w/ no glory would die fast so as long as lethal things are properly balanced they are just okay.. Adapt, use it and hv fun. Guys who use IED reveal team's spawn, so using SitRep you have info about direction the enemies will be coming from ... On huge maps any additional info is priceless. overusing IED = defeat. (well, I play TDM excl.)
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ookjawa
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Post by ookjawa on Jan 5, 2014 17:10:32 GMT -5
Rushers are already at enough of a disadvantage in CoD games. What? Black Ops 2 favoured rushing game play a lot, hence the rage over the PDW and the MSMC at the start of the game. ARs and SMGs were only really the main gun types. Sniping in maps that are about the size of two blocks on my street? Dropshot ability and no limb multipliers of less than 1 mean rush monkeys can use their reflexes far too easily. Scavenger promoted rushing game play as it refilled everything. Want a refill? Rush for that kill. Small 3 lane MLG maps still puts rushers at a disadvantage to you? Ghost perk only active when players are moving even snipers? Good way to get people like my who have never "run and gun" with a sniper rifle to learn how to railgun. The only disadvantage for rushing is the consistent overly nerfing of shotguns but that's just to shut up the SMG monkeys. I agree that Blops 2 is the most friendly CoD for "rush monkeys" like me. For kill-based game modes though, you're still far better off slapping on some resistance perks and locking down a heavy cover/head glitch area with an AR than flying around the map with an SMG. Defensive play is a snoozefest to me, so I'll always encourage tweaks that make the game more active.
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Post by kryptdawg on Jan 5, 2014 20:42:58 GMT -5
What? Black Ops 2 favoured rushing game play a lot, hence the rage over the PDW and the MSMC at the start of the game. ARs and SMGs were only really the main gun types. Sniping in maps that are about the size of two blocks on my street? Dropshot ability and no limb multipliers of less than 1 mean rush monkeys can use their reflexes far too easily. Scavenger promoted rushing game play as it refilled everything. Want a refill? Rush for that kill. Small 3 lane MLG maps still puts rushers at a disadvantage to you? Ghost perk only active when players are moving even snipers? Good way to get people like my who have never "run and gun" with a sniper rifle to learn how to railgun. The only disadvantage for rushing is the consistent overly nerfing of shotguns but that's just to shut up the SMG monkeys. I agree that Blops 2 is the most friendly CoD for "rush monkeys" like me. For kill-based game modes though, you're still far better off slapping on some resistance perks and locking down a heavy cover/Mind Bullets area with an AR than flying around the map with an SMG. Defensive play is a snoozefest to me, so I'll always encourage tweaks that make the game more active. Like taking out lmgs, snipers, plantable lethals and tacticals, making less tall grass, illuminating corners, making penalties for siting in a corner for too long, and making mobility perks worth less. Yes, that is a good start
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wings
True Bro
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Post by wings on Jan 6, 2014 4:25:22 GMT -5
What? Black Ops 2 favoured rushing game play a lot, hence the rage over the PDW and the MSMC at the start of the game. ARs and SMGs were only really the main gun types. Sniping in maps that are about the size of two blocks on my street? Dropshot ability and no limb multipliers of less than 1 mean rush monkeys can use their reflexes far too easily. Scavenger promoted rushing game play as it refilled everything. Want a refill? Rush for that kill. Small 3 lane MLG maps still puts rushers at a disadvantage to you? Ghost perk only active when players are moving even snipers? Good way to get people like my who have never "run and gun" with a sniper rifle to learn how to railgun. The only disadvantage for rushing is the consistent overly nerfing of shotguns but that's just to shut up the SMG monkeys. I agree that Blops 2 is the most friendly CoD for "rush monkeys" like me. For kill-based game modes though, you're still far better off slapping on some resistance perks and locking down a heavy cover/Mind Bullets area with an AR than flying around the map with an SMG. Defensive play is a snoozefest to me, so I'll always encourage tweaks that make the game more active. I'd say MW3 favoured rushing a fair amount too, going by map design, but Assassin made tactical loitering much easier. The problem with favouring a particular play style is that it nerfs the weapon categories suited for another play style. Oh yeah, in BO2 if I wanted full mobility with an LMG (handy for Headquarters) I'm not nearly as mobile as I could be in MW3 and I'd be sacrificing a fair amount in the pick 10 system since Lightweight competes with Flak Jacket. Don't forget the lack of footstep sounds meant that defensive players could easily be more easily killed. It was far too easy to uproot snipers and heavy gunners when their best positions had up to 4 entrances to take them out. Some of us enjoy taking out a well guarded sniper located in a power position rather than having it handed it to us by seeing snipers feeling forced to lay shock charges on the map because they're sniping out in the open at ground level. If you're going to promote rushing game play ahead of defensive play, then you'd have to buff the movement speeds (base, ADS, strafe etc) for the defensive guns and give fast swap times for weapons by default. You know people will moan at that because snipers will have Sleight of Hand back from MW2. People even moaned at them using Quickdraw in MW3 despite going without arguably the best perk in the game. Have you tried Cranked? Sure people camp in that but I've had no problems topping the leaderboard on it "running and gunning" with an LMG (their best use in the game). If I can do that with an LMG, and I gimp my class because Stalker is a must for LMGs, then I'm sure MTAR users can. I wouldn't mind seeing Headquarters back since that promotes movement.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jan 6, 2014 5:03:19 GMT -5
IED placement is so so so predicable. Sure if you run around like a mad man, you need sitrep. But when you are going to get that camper that just killed you, there is only one or two places where he possibly placed that thing. I never shoot them, just step in, step out, step in, kill.
They were very annoying the first few weeks of play, and still are sometimes, but nowhere as annoying as MW2 claymore abuse for example. Also as an IED user on about half my classes, I felt way more potent in MW2/BO2 with booby traps than I do now. (probably 90% due to scavenger) Hell, even in mw3 without scavenger it was easier to abuse equipment than in ghosts IMHO (yeas portable radar, I am looking at you)
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jan 6, 2014 7:15:42 GMT -5
Rushers are already at enough of a disadvantage in CoD games. The fact that I can't run past the lethal range of those goofy IEDs with Agility and Marathon (unlike most of the other planted explosives in the series) is incredibly annoying. What disadvantage does rushing have again?
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ookjawa
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Post by ookjawa on Jan 6, 2014 13:21:51 GMT -5
I'd say MW3 favoured rushing a fair amount too, going by map design, but Assassin made tactical loitering much easier. The problem with favouring a particular play style is that it nerfs the weapon categories suited for another play style. Oh yeah, in BO2 if I wanted full mobility with an LMG (handy for Headquarters) I'm not nearly as mobile as I could be in MW3 and I'd be sacrificing a fair amount in the pick 10 system since Lightweight competes with Flak Jacket. Don't forget the lack of footstep sounds meant that defensive players could easily be more easily killed. It was far too easy to uproot snipers and heavy gunners when their best positions had up to 4 entrances to take them out. Some of us enjoy taking out a well guarded sniper located in a power position rather than having it handed it to us by seeing snipers feeling forced to lay shock charges on the map because they're sniping out in the open at ground level. If you're going to promote rushing game play ahead of defensive play, then you'd have to buff the movement speeds (base, ADS, strafe etc) for the defensive guns and give fast swap times for weapons by default. You know people will moan at that because snipers will have Sleight of Hand back from MW2. People even moaned at them using Quickdraw in MW3 despite going without arguably the best perk in the game. Have you tried Cranked? Sure people camp in that but I've had no problems topping the leaderboard on it "running and gunning" with an LMG (their best use in the game). If I can do that with an LMG, and I gimp my class because Stalker is a must for LMGs, then I'm sure MTAR users can. I wouldn't mind seeing Headquarters back since that promotes movement. I get where you're coming from. Honestly, outside of the IEDs, spawns, and a few of the maps/map spots (windowpalooza on Warhawk, for example), I think Ghosts is a fairly well balanced and enjoyable CoD for most play styles. Rushers should be at a slight disadvantage; I shouldn't win most gunfights against players behind cover, nor should I be able to fly around the map and flank the enemy team over and over with impunity. The high risk/high reward factor is what makes it fun. In general, I'm just not a fan of mechanics that further encourage defensive play. I have tried Cranked, and like it quite a bit. I usually play with friends who don't enjoy it as much as I do though, so most of my time is spent playing KC.
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Post by hard1ine on Jan 16, 2014 20:39:04 GMT -5
What disadvantage does rushing have again? It takes skill and rational thought to rush effectively. Campers just need their IEDs and a Tracker Sight.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Jan 16, 2014 20:40:38 GMT -5
What disadvantage does rushing have again? Campers just need Amplify. Fix'd. :3
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Jan 16, 2014 20:50:00 GMT -5
Rushers are already at enough of a disadvantage in CoD games. The fact that I can't run past the lethal range of those goofy IEDs with Agility and Marathon (unlike most of the other planted explosives in the series) is incredibly annoying. As long as taking cover/holding choke points is more advantageous than constantly running out in the open campers will have the edge on rushers.
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Post by Nintendon't on Jan 16, 2014 20:55:04 GMT -5
What disadvantage does rushing have again? It takes skill and rational thought to rush effectively. Campers just need their IEDs and a Tracker Sight. Tracker sight is straight up garbage, why would anyone even bother with it?
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Jan 16, 2014 20:58:45 GMT -5
I think being either a "rusher" or a "camper" is dum as a mouse. In CoD you needed to do both to be an adaptive player and an adaptive player is a smart player.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jan 16, 2014 21:19:28 GMT -5
What disadvantage does rushing have again? It takes skill and rational thought to rush effectively. Campers just need their IEDs and a Tracker Sight. Tracker sight is crap IEDs are a minor, easily countered, nuisance. As for amplify, Dead Silence.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jan 16, 2014 21:33:15 GMT -5
What disadvantage does rushing have again? Well the defender gets an ads advantage and can use a stronger gun, but pure gunfight advantage is only measurable in tdm. In obj gametypes theres obviously more benefits to being a mobile class. I'll give you that, but even in TDM a good flank can take out entrenched enemies, especially in these maps that break a traditional 3 lane traffic pattern. Each has their pros and cons but generally tactical loitering is only as effective as people blindly rushing into the campsite. As far as I understand it the game has always given the advantage to the mover and the disadvantage to the moved upon, at least in terms of connectivity.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Jan 16, 2014 21:54:03 GMT -5
I think being either a "rusher" or a "camper" is dum as a mouse. In CoD you needed to do both to be an adaptive player and an adaptive player is a smart player. So true. Personally, I think it was a mistake to have equipment be refillable in BO2. I'll take the one or two max IEDs per life over Crisis of Infinite Claymores any day even if IEDs are occasionally annoying, and I do say occasionally—SitRep is nowhere near as close to a "perk tax" as DS, Amp, and even Focus are, not to mention all but the most deviously placed IEDs can be avoided if you react fast enough. (I'm in favor of getting rid of all set-and-forget bullshi t myself, but that's another tale for another time.) And seriously, if IEDs were ever the greatest of our concerns, we'd have arrived. Lastly, let's not perpetuate the notion that CoD doesn't favor "rushers" or reward active players because the game strongly favors active players. The most adept players and the ones who win games are the ones who win games are the ones who can rack up a lot of kills in a short period of time consistently. Lying in wait or "patrolling" a small portion of the map might work in a lobby with weak players (which is most lobbies, sure) but winning against competent players absolutely necessitates swift and decisive action. Even the simple act of turning a corner favors the player in motion over the player at rest.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Jan 17, 2014 4:24:52 GMT -5
Yes, it's not a hueg advantage—I mention it merely to illustrate that being an "AR/SMG monkey" is more often than not simply the best, most expedient strategy for winning games outside of extenuating circumstances which call for hunkering down or otherwise going on the defensive... and I just don't understand faulting another player for attempting to play intelligently if that means they aren't sprinting. If it's more sensible to adopt a defensive posture, why should the player in question exchange a strong position for a weaker one in a game that's overwhelmingly about positioning? Camping is just a convenient scapegoat for most players, and most players are not adept a game that's essentially a simple formula.
Sure, sometimes it's a pain in the ass. I played with a friend (his first Ghosts session ever, and he hated it) tonight on Prison Break against a full party of determined sharpshooters on Prison Break who were absolutely adamant about holding down their spawn(s). It made for a close game that went to time with our team barely edging them out. They'd keep setting up and we'd have to keep painstakingly breaking that setup... and yeah, it was annoying, but not even remotely close to unfair like so many players seem to suggest... but I guess—like I said—most players just aren't adept.
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