tooros
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Post by tooros on Oct 28, 2014 10:17:13 GMT -5
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 28, 2014 10:18:40 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 28, 2014 10:48:53 GMT -5
yeah, but the Templar wasn't mentioned. He can still be grenade off the ledge.
Atheon won't be that bad.
1. It's going to require three people to know how to run relic on that last stage. That's the thing, as long as three people are very comfortable with it, odds are one of them will get transported. They can just call it out when transported ("i'll get relic"). The other two roles are easier to do....shooting oracles and helping clear out crap.
2. People on the outside? All that is going to be required here is some jumping/moving skills. You aren't transported, you are going to have to be able to move/adjust quick to the conflux pole and/or the high ledges to shoot sh1t. Three people on the outside, three people filling the spots.
The key will be doing damage. Getting Atheon down in two rounds or so.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 28, 2014 11:49:10 GMT -5
Thinking about this, I feel like it's going to make the "everyone huddle in the middle under the relic shield" Atheon strategy less prevalent, which may actually make the fight EASIER. Like we discussed some in another thread with that 30 minute run video you posted IW, with everyone spread out you're free to use rockets without worrying about blowing yourself up, won't have anyone getting in the way of your sniper shots, won't have to deal with shield glitches or splash damage that result in deaths or potential wipes, etc etc etc. Also, the relic holder will be able to use the relic super for big damage on Atheon instead of shielding everyone, adding to the group DPS output. I think there's a decent chance that 2 portal trips or less is going to become the norm for well-organized teams with highly upgraded weapons.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 28, 2014 12:12:57 GMT -5
Thinking about this, I feel like it's going to make the "everyone huddle in the middle under the relic shield" Atheon strategy less prevalent, which may actually make the fight EASIER. Like we discussed some in another thread with that 30 minute run video you posted IW, with everyone spread out you're free to use rockets without worrying about blowing yourself up, won't have anyone getting in the way of your sniper shots, won't have to deal with shield glitches or splash damage that result in deaths or potential wipes, etc etc etc. Also, the relic holder will be able to use the relic super for big damage on Atheon instead of shielding everyone, adding to the group DPS output. I think there's a decent chance that 2 portal trips or less is going to become the norm for well-organized teams with highly upgraded weapons. Agree. In that video, they had two guys stationed up high on the ledges of the Mars and Venus plates. Both were putting serious damage on Atheon while the portal teams went back. The Venus ledge spot was relatively safe too. Harpy's couldn't hit it and Atheon had a hard time. So all in all, I think this would work well. The three who don't get transported....immediately go to those three pre-picked spots. The two high up ledges...and the third guy just goes to the correct Mars/Venus plate to open it. Done. The two high up ledges shoot out the harpy's as they swarm the plate. Once that's clear....UNLOAD on Atheon. No reason at all two rockets and a full 6 clip of sniper bullets can't be put on atheon while waiting for the portal team. Here's the thing. After a cycle is over....the three people on the ledges/pedestal...odds are not all three of them will transported. Each has a 50% chance of losing their spot. Not all three will be picked. One or two of them will remain in their spot. So the reality is, proximity & slot availability will make the outside positions very easy to fill. For example. If i was portal on cycle one...and then for cycle two...I am on the outside....I just look around. If both 'high ledge' spots are still taken.. I am the pedestal person. Just rotate to the empty spot. It should be rather easy. The hardest part about this? Ledge jumping. You have to be able to hit your jumps on the first try, get to those spots within 5 seconds. |
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 28, 2014 12:28:38 GMT -5
The hardest part about this? Ledge jumping. You have to be able to hit your jumps on the first try, get to those spots within 5 seconds. You hear that, Witty? LOL!  |
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 28, 2014 13:28:48 GMT -5
The hardest part about this? Ledge jumping. You have to be able to hit your jumps on the first try, get to those spots within 5 seconds. You hear that, Witty? LOL! ...and Stone! |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 28, 2014 13:34:44 GMT -5
I am a jumping legend now Mal. Did you see all those jumps I made last now, in the secret VoG room?
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 28, 2014 13:50:21 GMT -5
I am a jumping legend now Mal. Did you see all those jumps I made last now, in the secret VoG room? This is true. You have become a hard core parkour champion. Practice does make perfect. |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 28, 2014 13:51:42 GMT -5
I am a jumping legend now Mal. Did you see all those jumps I made last now, in the secret VoG room? This is true. You have become a hard core parkour champion. Practice does make perfect. That is my new training ground where I work out a few times a week. We need to send Witty there. |
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 28, 2014 13:58:09 GMT -5
I can get to that ledge OK (first try not guaranteed, within 3 times ). I am still having trouble with the jumping puzzle in the middle. Maybe on Thursday somebody can get me to that checkpoint on one of my characters so I can practice myself. |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 28, 2014 14:21:31 GMT -5
I can get to that ledge OK (first try not guaranteed, within 3 times ). I am still having trouble with the jumping puzzle in the middle. Maybe on Thursday somebody can get me to that checkpoint on one of my characters so I can practice myself. You and I should go into the VoG Secret Room and do some reps Witty. You don't have to do an official run. We use the sneak method to get into the Vault, and then from that point, there are no enemies. We can just practice jumping. The secret room has all kinds of very difficult jumps. |
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 28, 2014 14:25:30 GMT -5
Sounds great. Let's do that the next time we are online at the same time. I just need to know where the room is and I can do the rest myself.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 28, 2014 14:42:35 GMT -5
it's a good area to practice, as it's fun to explore while the jumps can create some tension.
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 28, 2014 22:15:52 GMT -5
The VoG hard mode was quite hard tonight. We only had two 30's and ending up not finishing when one of them had to leave. The problem wasn't the random teleporting, but the lack of firepower in the teleporting teams.
On the positive side, I played with the heb's ang got two Nightfalls done, as well as two Weekly lv28 Heroic strikes....both my characters done for the week.
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Post by Pharq as guest on Oct 28, 2014 23:25:59 GMT -5
The VoG hard mode was quite hard tonight. We only had two 30's and ending up not finishing when one of them had to leave. The problem wasn't the random teleporting, but the lack of firepower in the teleporting teams. On the positive side, I played with the heb's ang got two Nightfalls done, as well as two Weekly lv28 Heroic strikes....both my characters done for the week. this is pretty much the reason it will be tough, if you are doing hard you should have several people comfortable with the relic, but the difficult part is that the oracles are a gear check, a fully upgraded epilogue on a level 30 barely downs 1 in a standard clip. shadow prices and equivalents need ammo perks etc, so bring your suros/hardlight/monte carlo and vision of confluence. also how are people finding supplicants now? im thinking they may be the next part, mostly because you need to keep their numbers down as a stray supplicant downing somebody destroys alot of momentum. |
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 29, 2014 9:48:58 GMT -5
On the positive side, I played with the heb's ang got two Nightfalls done, as well as two Weekly lv28 Heroic strikes....both my characters done for the week. Yep, fun times! My two characters are done for the week also apart from dailies and raids. Time to level up my 18 Titan! |
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 29, 2014 13:54:46 GMT -5
I should be able to have 1 character reaching level 29 by the end of the week, so I guess it is not too early to talk about what I need to be competent enough on VoG hard (will not attempt to do it until I have 2 more weeks worth of runs on normal, say 3-5 more):
1) fully upgraded 29 Sunsinger;
2) fully upgraded Ice Breaker (solar) / Plan-C (arc) as special;
3) fully upgraded void Unfriendly Giant as heavy;
4) Solid enough legendary AutoR (fully upgraded Grim Citizen III) and ScoutR (not yet fully upgraded but I like it better because it is more "punchy");
4) 10+ heavy synthesis;
Am I ready gear wise?
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 29, 2014 14:01:35 GMT -5
I think you might have trouble during oracle phases. Having a weapon that does bonus oracle damage would help quite a bit. Hard mode oracles are supposed to be a real bitch to take down.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 29, 2014 14:06:23 GMT -5
I think you might have trouble during oracle phases. Having a weapon that does bonus oracle damage would help quite a bit. Hard mode oracles are supposed to be a real bitch to take down. What kind of weapons would I need? |
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Post by iw5000 on Oct 29, 2014 14:12:29 GMT -5
I think you might have trouble during oracle phases. Having a weapon that does bonus oracle damage would help quite a bit. Hard mode oracles are supposed to be a real bitch to take down. Agree. Here's a problem though. The problem with that is the only weapon I am aware of that does bonus Oracle damage (Vision of Confluence)...at least for me, didn't seem to be taking down Oracles that fast in the last Atheon stage (when being transported to Mars or Venus). I was bringing them down, but it was just so slow. I felt like I was barely keeping up with things. btw, my VoC is fully leveled. |
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Oct 29, 2014 14:16:28 GMT -5
I think most raid-specific weapons give bonus oracle damage. Atheon's Epilogue, Vision of Confluence, the Hezen rocket, the raid shotgun.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 29, 2014 14:17:53 GMT -5
One of the raid-exclusive ones. Atheon's Epilogue, Praedyth's Revenge, Hezen Vengeance, Found Verdict, Vision of Confluence, etc. Of course the only problem is you have to actually be lucky enough to get one of them to drop for you which is easier said than done of course.
Another idea: See if you can find a hard raid checkpoint at the oracle phase before the Templar fight, and try to test out your weapons there. If you can't kill an oracle before getting marked, then you probably need better weapons. From what I've read they can take around twice as much damage on hard mode. 2 golden gun shots instead of 1, almost a full mag from a maxed Atheon's Epilogue, mag and a half at least from Grim Citizen -- something along those lines. I can't verify for sure as I haven't tried it yet.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 29, 2014 14:20:38 GMT -5
Good info. This will help me de-prioritize the need of reaching level 29, until I am truly ready. Translation: If Xur sells crappy exotic Warlock armor again, I am not going to bite the bullet and buy it |
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Post by 2piece on Oct 29, 2014 14:23:07 GMT -5
The Oracles take quite a few more bullets to taken down in the hard mode and having a Raid weapon (VoC, Atheon's Epilogue, etc) is one of the only ways to keep up with them and it can still be very difficult.
I was using the Corrective Measure (Raid LMG) last night during the Atheon fight and when I got teleported it seemed to down the Oracles pretty quickly.
VoC and AE are two of the best primaries to carry during the HM raid.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 29, 2014 14:24:30 GMT -5
I do have Hezen's Vengeance though, is it good against Oracle? Not fully upgraded yet as I have not spent much time on it, due to Unfriendly Giant's (void) awesomeness at taking out Praetorians.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Oct 29, 2014 14:41:01 GMT -5
I'd have to imagine one rocket would be enough to take down an oracle, two rockets would for sure. However, even if it's just one, now you're burning all your rockets on oracles leaving you with none to use on Atheon. Probably only useful in an emergency "have to kill this oracle immediately" situation.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 29, 2014 14:46:16 GMT -5
I'd have to imagine one rocket would be enough to take down an oracle, two rockets would for sure. However, even if it's just one, now you're burning all your rockets on oracles leaving you with none to use on Atheon. Probably only useful in an emergency "have to kill this oracle immediately" situation. Sounds like I may need to prioritize Hunter for level 29 before Warlock, as I can golden gun Atheon without having to consider reserving heavy ammo for that. My hunter is ready, I just don't like the aspect of wasting 18 shards (only have 1 raid gear, so need to fully upgrade a non-raid legendary to get there if I don't get lucky on Raid gear drops) |
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Post by TheHawkNY on Oct 29, 2014 14:57:42 GMT -5
I'd have to imagine one rocket would be enough to take down an oracle, two rockets would for sure. However, even if it's just one, now you're burning all your rockets on oracles leaving you with none to use on Atheon. Probably only useful in an emergency "have to kill this oracle immediately" situation. Sounds like I may need to prioritize Hunter for level 29 before Warlock, as I can golden gun Atheon without having to consider reserving heavy ammo for that. My hunter is ready, I just don't like the aspect of wasting 18 shards (only have 1 raid gear, so need to fully upgrade a non-raid legendary to get there if I don't get lucky on Raid gear drops) I'd go with the Warlock. The golden gun doesn't do that much damage. Also, the Hunter doesn't have the ability to come back to life when downed, which is kinda huge. |
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Oct 29, 2014 15:07:34 GMT -5
Good to know, thanks.
One thing I realized this week is that I should never get too attached to a single objective (say reaching level 29), because otherwise the game quickly becomes too grindy and unfun. So I have decided to just let things happen naturally, as long as I am having fun.
I see a lot of frustrations on the forum lately, my guess is that they all sorta due to this.
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