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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 25, 2016 9:56:46 GMT -5
i mean...on their own that works. with zarya the real danger is when she buffs a reaper or something and they just muscle into your team from around a corner. you have to focus him down because he can down most classes in the game in under a second. and with heals and zarya herself in the mix thats a lot of damage to worry about. with reinhardt it doesnt change that there should be some people just spotting out raw damage from behind the shield. you have to keep peeking for the orb to not just vanish from the reinhardt (if he even let himself take the orb in the first place) and if theres a mcree or a 76 or a pharah or whatever then theres a good chance a zen could get picked from the spam alone before the shield breaks. pub mentality might be different between platforms though. i find people are surprisingly coordinated when it comes to their tanks. There's no coordination on PS4, it seems. I put a Zarya shield on a teammate, they will almost certainly run behind cover. You can pop Transcendence directly on a friendly Reinhardt, I assure you, he will not take down his shield to swing his hammer the entire time. Teammates will run past enemies pooping all over their helpless medics and tanks without giving a second thought at helping. Two pro-tips I have picked up: - Because a random will choose Widowmaker, no matter how inappropriate the situation, and will do absolutely nothing but handicap your team, I have taken to immediately selecting Widowmaker, then switching right as the game starts, just to deter randoms from selecting her. - On the Assault maps (Hanamura, Temple of Anubis, Volskya) the best method for attack seems to be to have a Winston or D.va immediately rush up and over the choke point and go to A, and survive as long as possible/take out turrets. Teams in pubs are generally ill-equipped to deal with this. Some of them will rush back to A, creating a mismatch for your team at the choke point, and then at the point. If you then immediately rush straight to B, with your tank once again ignoring all enemies, you have the opportunity to prevent them from setting up any defenses and continue to shoot divided, disorganized enemies.
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Gamma
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Overwatch
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Post by Gamma on Jun 25, 2016 15:05:07 GMT -5
The game's been out for a while now; would you recommend it for purely solo play?
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Den
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Post by Den on Jun 25, 2016 17:16:13 GMT -5
Damn right. Given the style of this game, even just two or three people working well together can roll over a team of six randoms who really just do their own thing according to their role, the only thing that could stop them being a very skilled Offense hero beating them in direct combat. Whenever I'm going it alone, I can usually tell when I'm going up against a team that has a group in it - it's when my side gets steamrolled.
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Den
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Post by Den on Jun 26, 2016 2:44:20 GMT -5
Pfffff silly consoles. So his turret's going down to 10 damage per shot. Roughly adding on 2-6 seconds to how long one of them can kill a player depending on Lv1 or Lv2 and the player's max health.
Bastion's transform can't possibly go any faster than its current 0.5 seconds. That's already close enough to instantaneous. Bastion can go Turret > Recon > Turret in the same amount of time it takes to reload the turret. 2.0 seconds. 1.5 to prepare the minigun, 0.5 to be able to run again.
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Post by Aphoristic on Jun 26, 2016 3:33:48 GMT -5
TTK in seconds: HP | Level 1 | Level 2 | Level 3 | 150 | 5=>7 | 2.5=>3.5 | 1=>1.5 | 200 | 7=>9.5 | 3.5=>4.75 | 1.5=>2 | 250 | 8.5=>12 | 4.25=>6 | 1.8=>2.6 |
The level 3 is annoying to do since there are 2 streams of damage. At worst it's only half a second more time.
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Den
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Post by Den on Jun 26, 2016 6:29:58 GMT -5
Perhaps there's more they'll do to it. I'd imagine a targeting delay would be ideal. From what I can see in the Training Range, Toblerone's Tourette reacts instantly as soon as even a sliver of a character model hits its line of sight (to the point that if you're able to see the bare side of it, it will start shooting you with its particle effect going through the wall), the only delay being in the time it takes for it to rotate to face a target. Its turn speed lets it do a 180° in 0.2 seconds at the most (and Level 2 may even turn a bit faster). If it's facing your direction when you turn that corner, it's instant damage.
Perhaps they could go the TF2 Sentry route and have that alarming beep and a half/one second/however long firing delay.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jun 27, 2016 19:16:11 GMT -5
mccree is kind of a joke right now
bring back old fan (cant believe im typing this), smack a 6s cooldown on it and call it a day
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Den
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Post by Den on Jun 28, 2016 8:51:16 GMT -5
McCree hasn't really changed. His recent nerf hasn't done anything to him (besides no longer being an Everything-Killer, now only a 3/4 of everything Killer) except make people realize that Roadhog is effectively ten times better at everything McCree does except pinpoint long range damage. Where McCree's Flash works out to about meters meters, Roadhog's reaches twenty. Where McCree can deal a lot of damage at point blank with Fan over the course of a second, Roadhog can do so with his right click in one shot. Where McCree is nothing special when it comes to survivability with 200 HP and a paltry Roll, Roadhog has three times the health, plus a powerful self-heal plus his Abilities cool down much faster. And because every map and game mode is small spaces, chokepoints and fighting over a single location, Roadhog is almost always going to be in range to hook enemies.
Despite all that, McCree is still good thanks to still being one of the best long range sharpshooters. What he lacks in power per shot, he makes up for with hitscans and a fairly rapid rate of fire.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 28, 2016 9:15:31 GMT -5
How do the rewards work in competitive? Has there been any indication of how voice chat will work on console?
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jun 28, 2016 9:45:02 GMT -5
I dont agree with that Den. While it's true that Roadhog is now the new McCree (sits with and protects your supports while dealing damage), McCree before was much more versatile. Put old McCree back in and both Roadhog and Reaper disappear again Now with McCree gone (he fell off a cliff in terms of pickrate) really the only way to deal with Roadhog (and tank busting) is Reaper, who is more of a semi-counter anyway, and other Roadhogs. As a midrange skirmisher McCree is pretty much outclassed by Soldier, who deals more damage at longer range (mccrees falloff starts at 18 metres, soldiers at 35!) in a more forgiving manner and thus is the go-to answer for Pharah. McCrees only niche is based around his stun, which is not enough with Roadhog being a thing and the other DPS classes seemingly not struggling at dealing with Tracers/Genjis enough How do the rewards work in competitive? Has there been any indication of how voice chat will work on console? winning a competitive match gives you a competitive credit, with which currently you can only get golden guns with at 300 each. At the end of a competitive season, said to be 2.5 months, you get a yet unspecified amount of credits based on the rank you reached
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 29, 2016 10:28:43 GMT -5
How do the rewards work in competitive? Has there been any indication of how voice chat will work on console? winning a competitive match gives you a competitive credit, with which currently you can only get golden guns with at 300 each. At the end of a competitive season, said to be 2.5 months, you get a yet unspecified amount of credits based on the rank you reached Hmmm. Interesting to see what the bonus credits for rank will be. Based on wins, you'd assume people will earn somewhere around 1.5 credits per hour, if you assume an average game time of 20 minutes and a 50% win rate. So that would be 200 hours in the season, or 20 hours per week. Even higher rates (33 hours/week) for the first season, which will only be 1.5 months. How much does the average match increase or decrease your rank? Is it one level on average?
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 29, 2016 10:57:55 GMT -5
When should I be using Roadhog? I fundamentally understand when to use the other tanks - Reinhardt to shield to take out entrenched targets; D.va for pushing points/payload and clearing with her ultimate; Winston for pushing and countering the likes of Mercy, Tracer, Symmetra; Zarya for area control. But Roadhog I'm not sure what to do with except go off to the side and try to get 1v1 fights. He can't really do much against other tanks, he can't shield himself or teammates, he has no mobility to escape anything. Is he just a counter to Pharah?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 11:23:45 GMT -5
When should I be using Roadhog? I fundamentally understand when to use the other tanks - Reinhardt to shield to take out entrenched targets; D.va for pushing points/payload and clearing with her ultimate; Winston for pushing and countering the likes of Mercy, Tracer, Symmetra; Zarya for area control. But Roadhog I'm not sure what to do with except go off to the side and try to get 1v1 fights. He can't really do much against other tanks, he can't shield himself or teammates, he has no mobility to escape anything. Is he just a counter to Pharah? He excels at disrupting enemy formations. Anyone who gets hooked that isn't a tank is pretty much dead against Roadhog's huge damage up close. His role is to hook Support heroes, Bastions in sentry mode, remove Reinhardt from shielding enemies, any enemy hero that is alone etc. which allows his team to push forward or get a breather in defense. He can also counter dodgy heroes like Genji and Tracer but you need to have good aim with the Hook to do it. So, a Tank class that plays more like a Offense class because he is shit at protection others other than tanking some occasional shots and self healing it.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jun 29, 2016 18:20:03 GMT -5
sudden death is an absolute joke
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jun 29, 2016 18:52:36 GMT -5
even the payload hybrid maps are ass because of it
win with a landslide in timing, still get Foxtroted because of a coinflip. its insanely stupid how this was even considered an improvement from their previous system
also reconnect timers are hilariously short (1 min in a game without a pause function? come on)
All in all not impressed. feels like regular quick play in terms of player skill level and commitment too and ive only had 1 guy react to my in-game voice chat out of like 11 matches
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Jun 29, 2016 21:17:44 GMT -5
Die mouse. Roadhog uses a shotgun so he's cool.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 29, 2016 21:58:14 GMT -5
What asshole would make a graph that has a line and bars that show the exact same data?
Why do they add up to more than 600%?
People are using Lucio on defense in 80% of games on PC in competitive, and literally never using Zenyatta? Pharah is the 6th most used character overall but is used 0% of the time in King of the Hill? Mei and Bastion are basically never used as well? The top six defense characters are Mercy, Lucio, Soldier, Reaper, Reinhardt, and Roadhog - are there not health packs on PC? Do these numbers look correct to you guys?
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jun 30, 2016 5:24:43 GMT -5
competitive koth maps are apparently bugged and only take the first round in account for calibrating and skill rating (which still doesnt make sense, as you'd apparently be a better player if you have the game go to a full 3-2 instead of a 3-0?) but whatevs
since koth maps do jack shit for your rating, Id wait with calibrating unless you want to be stuck at a lower rank than youre supposed to be
oh and ill eat crow on that zenyatta prediction hero is apparently worse than hanzo. fukin roadhog though
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Den
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Post by Den on Jun 30, 2016 10:58:25 GMT -5
People are using Lucio on defense in 80% of games on PC in competitive, and literally never using Zenyatta? Pharah is the 6th most used character overall but is used 0% of the time in King of the Hill? Mei and Bastion are basically never used as well? The top six defense characters are Mercy, Lucio, Soldier, Reaper, Reinhardt, and Roadhog - are there not health packs on PC? Do these numbers look correct to you guys? Yes, that's about right. Lucio AND Mercy are mandatory for nearly every map. Mercy's healing & Resurrection combined with Lucio's speed & BREAK IT DOWN means maximum ability to contest a point and for the others on the team to fight a lot more aggressively. With few exceptions, they are always in a team at all times. Zenyatta is a nobody. His ability to stick an enemy with Discord and deal "a lot" of damage is a non-benefit because the would-be victim is just going to take a step back for a second. His healing is tertiary to his design, not nearly as good as either Mercy nor Lucio NOR Soldier 76. His projectiles are weak, his orbs take a moment to reach their target, so he has downtime on both healing and Discord as well as issues targeting the one he actually wishes to affect because of the lockon system for his abilities. Also Discord is hard to see since it only gives the HUD element to Zenyatta and not the rest of his team. As he is, Zen is a waste of a slot and the team is better off with another natural damage dealer. Pharah has the advantage of attacking from a distance, denying an area with suppressing fire, flanking and using cover in Assault and Escort maps. Not so in Control maps which are almost always open spaces where everyone is going to constantly crash the control point and fight in the area immediately around it. Rather than superficial splash damage, you're better off with more guaranteed damage characters like 76 and Reaper, Lucio who can get himself and allies to the point quick, and tanks who can contest the point for as long as possible. Mei and Bastion are basically less effective versions of other heroes in an organized team. Too specialized, too weak in many areas. Mei's area denial focus with walls and slowing enemies is way better performed by any Tank, Pharah and Junkrat. In the thick of things, she's not going to survive long enough to freeze one enemy before the rest come down on her. While she's ice-cubed, she's not helping. While her wall's up, she's blocking both the enemy and her allies, really just means the enemy has a couple seconds to group up. Bastion's Turret mode requires support, specifically a Reinhardt to shield him (that's why there's that tiny bit of use in Control maps). Without any cover, anywhere he can possibly set up is easily dealt with. If he sets up in a safe spot, said safe spot means that he's waiting for the enemy to push further forward, so he's doing nothing and the rest of his team is fighting 5v6. When they do get to his corner, it just takes some pecking at him from around the corner by a Pharah, 76 or even a damn Mercy. On the move, Bastion is a dramatically weaker 76. Crappier gun, can only heal himself, no sprint. After McCree and Widow's nerf, it is easy to see how Mercy, Lucio, Reaper, 76, Rein and Roadhog are the top picks. Mercy and Lucio are obvious. Heals and speed as mentioned before. Reaper and 76 are the powerhouses in different fields. Reaper a flanker who can vaporize hundreds of health with a single shot, 76 a frontline fighter with high damage potential and secondary medic. Rein for cover and disruptions, plus the very useful HAMMER DOWN. Roadhog (taking Widow and McCree's place) for singling out important targets with a hook and being one of the best point-contesting heroes. Competitive is all about surefire, guaranteed strategies with the most reliable tactics. Aiming is paramount, which is why it falls on to the hitscan/melee/shotgun characters over those who need to lead projectile. Experimentation and unusual strategies is done in less serious scrimmages or when one side is dominating so hard that the winners screw around and the losers are scrambling to find some unconventional victory plan.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 30, 2016 11:39:33 GMT -5
Yeah I didn't realize it was just a small sample of the highest level of play.
I understand why Zen is relatively garbage on PC. On console, I don't have to worry about getting sniped by a Widowmaker while I'm on defense, I'd say it happens once every few games or so. I also have the benefit of relying on Torb (and Symmetra) armor, and having 250 health makes him a lot less squishy. I also have the benefit of shooting a lot of enemies in the back as once they focus first on getting rid of the turrets. It'll be interesting to see how things play out with the Torb nerf on console. Hopefully it won't make Zen worthless for a month or two until we get the next patch.
I honestly thought Zarya would be a little higher than she is. I figured she'd see much higher usage on offense/koh. I have nightmares about a fully charged Zarya coming around a corner at me, and that's on console where they probably can't even aim.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Jul 3, 2016 12:31:54 GMT -5
You love weird things.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jul 3, 2016 13:12:38 GMT -5
Really enjoying competitive so far. Difficulty has been fairly similar, but randoms are not doing things to give me brain aneurysms as often. Torb nerf is an improvement, but he still feels broken for defending a point.
I haven't had too many games go to sudden death, but had one on Numbani where neither team captured the payload. I think it's 5 minutes you have to capture the payload, so at that point we were 10 minutes in to the match. We lost the coin flip and then had 2 minutes to capture, failed, and lost. I can't imagine the expected win rates were 50/50 in that situation. Giving one team 5 minutes to capture or lose, and making the other beat their time feels like a more appropriate game duration and more even odds.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jul 3, 2016 14:29:45 GMT -5
Been seeing a lot more torb even in competitive play on pc. he really didnt deserve the reputation he had before, even though there's only merit in playing him on some specific defence points
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jul 4, 2016 5:36:18 GMT -5
I thought the Torb nerf didn't go through yet? Did they speed that up with last patch?
Also, I think attacking the point is seen as the easier thing to do by the community, that is what all the rage is about with the coin flip. Spawn location is often closer for attackers, although that might be different on that map
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jul 4, 2016 14:28:46 GMT -5
tjorb nerf came with competitive i think? not sure as I dont play console
and ye, first point defence you generally only have 1 life as a team whereas the attacking team has some leeway. There's some exceptions like on Route 66, where dying in sudden death on the attacking side probably spells a loss. Then there's the issue that of course your hero picks are concealed on your first spawn wave, so it promotes unorthodox picks for the sake of it or just straight cheesing
Regardless, even if the system provided a perfect 50/50 winrate for both sides at all skill levels (highly doubt it does) its just not satisfying to have an otherwise mirrored matchup come down to a coinflip
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Post by qupie on Jul 5, 2016 7:01:24 GMT -5
No the Tjorb nerf comes up later, there were some pitchforks about that last week on reddit. I guess the patch was already pending with Microsoft/Sony, otherwise that seems like a pretty easy change of code to me. www.gamespot.com/articles/overwatch-ps4xbox-one-update-adds-competitive-play/1100-6441434/ I can see Tjorb being effective still after his nerf on console. Not in the must pick meta, but pretty decent. Some heroes gain greatly from armour (Zarya, Zenyatta, Symmetra) and the ability to alert your team of flankers and softening them up a little can be lifesaving (like on Volska). People simply need to learn to play with the guy himself as well, and not just as a turret repair dude. He is actually not that bad if you stay close to your team. I agree completely on the coin flip, it is stupid. Why don't they do it the same was as in the tournaments? p.s. Zarya <3
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Den
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Post by Den on Jul 5, 2016 14:26:15 GMT -5
Torb is underrated on PC, but he's still highly situational and dependent on having a competent team that can hold a frontline so that his turret isn't being immediately destroyed. As such, he's more often than not just a liability because his team is not really on the same page unless it's one of a few chokepoints where it just naturally happens.
Most underrated are his Armor Packs. Go scavenging after a skirmish and Torb can have up to 450 points of extra health in the form of Armor distributed to himself and his allies. Such a boost in total team health is like having an extra tank on the team covering everyone. Or playing aggressively with 200 scrap, Torbjorn has 300 Armor ready to drop for himself in an instant in the middle of a fight, healing himself bit by bit by throwing a pack down at his feet to renew the 75 points of Armor (or throwing packs out in the middle of the contested point where allies are like to run over them during battle, making Torb behave like a healer of sorts).
It's a real shame that something I thought was very helpful for Toblerone was patched out - Torbjorn's corpse used to pick up his own Scrap on death, essentially a free +25 on spawn as compensation. I think it would be great if he started with full Scrap during Setup time, allowing him to give 2/3 of his team the +75 Armor buff. It's pretty gosh darn golly gee whiz risky for him to go out into no man's land where all the scrap is and all the deaths take place just to make use of one of his core abilities.
The coin flip Sudden Death is the dumbest of dumb things. Why would they not just base it on Par Time? whoever captured faster wins. Or keep the Sudden Death in. Whoever gets the coin flip to attack the first point sets the par time and the second team has to beat it.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Jul 5, 2016 18:40:01 GMT -5
tjorbs swap sweep trick should just become his regular speed for one
and koth is indeed a mess because of overtime mechanics. apparently blizz is hosting a 100k tourney (? gosugamers mentioned this cant find it anywhere though) with hero stacking allowed, so enjoy 2 teams of double lucio, tracer and winston whenever koth pops up
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Den
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Post by Den on Jul 6, 2016 18:03:50 GMT -5
What happens when the organized tournament holders go by Blizzard's rules. Insane hero stacking. Compositions of 2/2/2 of the same heroes and then 5 Tracers in KOTH just constantly tapping the point to keep Overtime going until they can break the enemy off of it with Pulse bombs. Horrendously long KOTH matches because of the 3/5 rounds and the overtime extension. Hanamura, Anubis and Volskaya being avoided like the plague because of their cruddy design... but now comp teams having to pick and choose which plague they want to avoid, 2CP or KOTH.
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Den
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Post by Den on Jul 6, 2016 18:57:21 GMT -5
At least that tweet was in response to console "four Torbjorn at once is OP what're we supposed to do". Hopefully hopefully hopefully when they see this issue coming up at the high tier of play (and this "meta" begins to take over the random comp matches, creating a great skew in their analytics), they'll at least do something about it for competitive mode.
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