malgato
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Post by malgato on Jan 8, 2015 15:45:15 GMT -5
Planet Destiny has a review of Hunger of Crota. They said (and I agree), that it is the next best thing to Gjallahorn. The cluster bombs don't hit quite as hard as Wolfpack rounds, and they don't track. That is the difference. But HoC is only a legendary, while Gjallahorn is an exotic. Gjallahorn wins, clearly, but there are times when using a different exotic is important or preferable, and in those cases HoC is a great substitute. Witty, level up your HoC. I think you are selling it a little short. Fully leveled it hits pretty hard.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 8, 2015 15:55:19 GMT -5
I don't mind a few checkpoints being doable solo, in fact I think it makes sense, but there should definitely be a point in the raid where you just can't do it if you're solo.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 8, 2015 16:04:37 GMT -5
On the other hand... I assume it's only soloable by someone who is basically already level 31 if not 32... At 32 you are actually slightly over leveled for normal mode CsE and should be playing hard, (except it's not available yet). I doubt even a 32 could solo hard, or I hope not anyway.
If CsE is only soloable by people who have done it enough to have technically "finished" it and gotten level 32 then I'm actually kinda okay with that. If 31's can solo it then I'm not so sure unless it at least requires some fully upgraded raid weapons, because you can get to 31 without ever stepping into a raid, or even a nightfall. I'm 30 and have never done a NF. *shrug*
All I know is CsE on Hard... better step it up a notch.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 8, 2015 16:09:44 GMT -5
Hopefully I'll get a Hunger of Crota from one of our raid completions tonight. If so, I'll post a thorough comparison once I'm able to fully upgrade HoC. My initial thought is that HoC might be the next best thing to Gjallarhorn and is still probably really good, but that doesn't mean the two are in the same class. Really good <<< best single target burst damage in the game. We'll see though!
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wings
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Post by wings on Jan 8, 2015 16:55:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure why anybody bought just the base game for Destiny and not the DLC. Sure, the DLC is a bit overpriced, but I have no regrets for my digital guardian edition. it is ovepriced when you compare, say, Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragons Keep in Borderlands 2 for a quarter of the price. I'd have bought the DLC if Bungie didn't shaft vanilla players by providing no alternative for the Weekly Heroic and Nightfall events when DLC is in rotation. For a game hellbent on player retention, this is sure counterproductive. And this may get worse with upcoming DLC content.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Jan 8, 2015 16:57:31 GMT -5
Hopefully I'll get a Hunger of Crota from one of our raid completions tonight. If so, I'll post a thorough comparison once I'm able to fully upgrade HoC. My initial thought is that HoC might be the next best thing to Gjallarhorn and is still probably really good, but that doesn't mean the two are in the same class. Really good <<< best single target burst damage in the game. We'll see though! I think that is a good assessment. HoC is the next best thing, but Gjallarhorn is still the best without question. But you aren't totally gimped if you only have HoC, because it is still very good, and it gives you the flexibility to use another exotic (Icebreaker...!).
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Jan 8, 2015 16:58:26 GMT -5
P.S. I love my Icebreaker.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 8, 2015 17:11:52 GMT -5
Sure, will fully level up Hunger once I get all 3 of my characters to level 32 and have the 18 Radiant Energy to spare for the final 3 upgrades. Meanwhile for me personally 331 attack Truth might still be the best RL.
I still have doubts about Hunger as a "good enough" replacement for Gjallar though. I talked to a few players who seriously want to shelf Gjallar in favor of exotic primary, and they feel that Hunger is way too weak to make that work.
Talking about exotic, any bros who haven't got around finishing Thorn bounty and fully leveling it up, you need to seriously get on it. It is an amazing exotic, IMHO the best primary, and overall ranked 3rd on my list right behind GJallarhorn and Ice Breaker. Thorn + Black Hammer + Hunger combo packs some of the most serious firepower in Destiny.
When I actually get a Gjallar (if that ever happens), I think that I'll have a dilemma at my hand. There are a list of exotic primary weapons I fall in love with that would have to compete with Gjallar for the exotic slot:
1) Thorn is just simply awesome, both PvE and PvP; 2) MiDA for high agility and big knock back power; 3) Bad Juju for the ease of erasing tier 1 enemies without having to reload, and speed up supers cooldowns; 4) Vex Mythoclast for serious power against solar shielded enemies in PvE and OP over almost all other automatic primary weapons in PvP (IMHO including Suros); 5) TLW (The Last Word) as best PvP weapon to fire from hip; etc.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jan 9, 2015 6:58:20 GMT -5
They will all be DLC items. As long as Obsidian Mind is one of them, I'm perfectly fine with that. I doubt it will be sold any time soon because of how strong it is, just like why the Heart of Praxic Fure has still never been sold by Xur. So now Starfire Protocol is the new Voidfang Vestments.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 9, 2015 7:35:28 GMT -5
Another week, another waste of time.
Recap -
New Stuff to buy
.....StarFire Protocol (Warlock chest) for the umpteenth straight week. Again? .....The exotic available to purchases? (drum roll) ....the Last Word. WTF? Really? The worst of the three hand cannons? Yes. (Thorn and Hawkmoon are better)
Xfurbish stuff to buy
......Apotheosis Veil (Helmet - Warlock). That's nice. Offer a refurbish item (again) that was never ever originally sold. Or ever dropped. Great. ......Heart of the Praxic Fire (Chest - Warlock). See above. Doesn't matter here, as i don't need any chest pieces.
Guns to refurbish?
Does this matter? No. By this point in time (5th week or the new DLC), everyone has already refurbished their favorite exotic to 331, or redid it through the bounty. I have a 300 Plan C and MIDA MT, but i don't see any point in spending 7,400 glimmer to make either of those two 331 weapons. Why bother? Slightly more damage is nice, but those two guns aren't difference makers and it sucks to have them hogging a spot with their exotic status. Like why upgrade my Plan C from 300 to 331? I already have like three other 331 Fusion rifles that do 331 damage. What's the point?
Nice to see Xur including the Gjallorhorn into the mix yet again....rubbing it in my face. I've only finished countless NF's, VoG's, and everything else under the sun for months now, ...and have never seen this gun. But hey, he's offering it for upgrading.
So what to buy? I might buy some heavy packs. That's being sold.
This whole Xur thing has got to go. It's become a ridiculously stupid feature in this game.
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wings
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Post by wings on Jan 9, 2015 8:25:09 GMT -5
No need to log into the game for Xur. Just check Reddit.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 9, 2015 9:06:15 GMT -5
No need to log into the game for Xur. Just check Reddit. I typically log on, sign on most mornings. I get up to check on the kids around 5:45am to 6am. Then have nothing to do as we don't open our office until 8am. I have a five to ten min commute, so have close to two hours to kill. What to do? Five min to look at everything on the internet, 20 min to shower, ...i'll often use the remaining time to do a few Destiny bounties while sitting around.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 9, 2015 9:48:22 GMT -5
Looks like I can rexurbish Plan C. I'm not sure if Starfire Protocol is any good... I'm more keen on getting a legendary chest piece though, so I can use either of my exotic arms.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 9, 2015 10:29:19 GMT -5
I'm pretty happy about Starfire Protocol since I missed it while on vacation last week. It seems like a really good piece for Sunsingers, allowing you to take the touch of flame or angel of light perks while still being able to have 2 fusion grenades (which are my favorite Warlock grenades). Combine touch of flame with the Viking funeral perk and you'll be doing a ton of additional damage over time. Lucky Raspberry will be useful for my Hunter. Otherwise, pretty meh. At least there's heavy ammo again! I dropped 15 coins stocking myself back up.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 9, 2015 10:37:55 GMT -5
Ahhh... Well I might have to think about Starfire Protocol after all, then. Because I do love incinerating grenades, but also love 2 grenades... That sounds really good. Plus I could actually use that due to it being chest.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 9, 2015 10:50:35 GMT -5
I think it's better than Heart of the Praxic Fire, the heretofore proclaimed best exotic for Sunsingers. Disclaimer: I don't own HotPF. Then again, practically nobody else does either since Xur hasn't sold it (even though he's had it available to upgrade several times -- troll move and a half there).
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Post by thebb22 on Jan 9, 2015 11:02:31 GMT -5
I've had HotPF for weeks now. Personally, I don't know why everyone is so bent out of shape about it. Reduces cooldowns while Radiance is active...great, you get to throw one extra grenade before Radiance runs out? Big deal. Having a second fusion grenade sounds way more useful.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 9, 2015 11:06:55 GMT -5
Really? I already throw grenades almost as fast as I can when I have radiance... Maybe having 2 helps with that because it keeps charging grenade from the time you have 1 until you throw it instead of wasting charge time when you only have 1 grenade, but still. I'm pretty sure I've thrown at least 5 or 6 in one super use. Getting an extra one really doesn't sound too useful. heh
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Post by thebb22 on Jan 9, 2015 11:12:39 GMT -5
That's what I'm saying. I throw as many grenades as humanly possible during Radiance as well. But it seems to me that having the HotPF equipped is only going to let you throw an extra one or possibly two grenades during that time anyway. Just doesn't really seem that useful. I'd rather just have an extra Fusion Grenade at all times, and then be able to run a different perk aside from the double grenade perk.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 9, 2015 11:43:29 GMT -5
I'm actually excited for this armor now. Two grenades that both ignite... that sounds pretty devastating, especially when I do hit Radiance and start tossing them everywhere. People are gonna hurt! I foresee many many post mortems next Iron Banner. ;3
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 9, 2015 11:53:52 GMT -5
Tempted to pick up the chest piece, as I have an exotic (unfurbished) helm and exotic (refurbished) gauntlets... but no exotic chest piece
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 9, 2015 12:00:48 GMT -5
I'm pretty happy about Starfire Protocol since I missed it while on vacation last week. It seems like a really good piece for Sunsingers, allowing you to take the touch of flame or angel of light perks while still being able to have 2 fusion grenades (which are my favorite Warlock grenades). Combine touch of flame with the Viking funeral perk and you'll be doing a ton of additional damage over time. Lucky Raspberry will be useful for my Hunter. Otherwise, pretty meh. At least there's heavy ammo again! I dropped 15 coins stocking myself back up. I go back and forth on what you said. I have a fully leveled Starfire and what you put down is great. Stacking the armor, with those perks...great. But then you have to give up the Solar Grenade. My thoughts... Solar grenade just seems to be more useful against mobs. First, it lasts 3.5 seconds, so it can deliver 350d (100 per sec) rather than 165 max with a fusion. Second, most enemies are dumb and won't move at least for a second, so you instantly have 200d minimum, on more than one enemy. Even if you are giving up the 'Touch of Flame' perk as you are using double grenades (as in your example), the ToF perk is at most only giving fusion grenades a 20% buff. 165 becomes 195. No big deal imho. And in PvP, solar grenades really seem to fvck with people when playing control. They move off the grenade, but ALWAYS misjudge it's range (13') and it's 3.5 sec length. The other problem with the Starfire is this. I would have go give up the Skull exotic 36 helmet. This helmet gives increased grenade throw abilities, and replenishes super energy meter with each grenade kill. I don't know what the buff is here, but it seems to help when using the above two solar grenade spam system. Solars often will get 2-3 kills on dumb enemies. With double solars, I can keep dropping them every 20 seconds. So 8-9 kills a minute? The helmet buff basically doubles the super replenish time, then giving around 6 sec bonus rather than 3. So it reduces the cooldown 25 sec or so every minute. Maybe a 30% reduction in Super cooldown?
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 9, 2015 12:39:00 GMT -5
I'm pretty happy about Starfire Protocol since I missed it while on vacation last week. It seems like a really good piece for Sunsingers, allowing you to take the touch of flame or angel of light perks while still being able to have 2 fusion grenades (which are my favorite Warlock grenades). Combine touch of flame with the Viking funeral perk and you'll be doing a ton of additional damage over time. Lucky Raspberry will be useful for my Hunter. Otherwise, pretty meh. At least there's heavy ammo again! I dropped 15 coins stocking myself back up. I go back and forth on what you said. I have a fully leveled Starfire and what you put down is great. Stacking the armor, with those perks...great. But then you have to give up the Solar Grenade. My thoughts... Solar grenade just seems to be more useful against mobs. First, it lasts 3.5 seconds, so it can deliver 350d rather than 165 max with a fusion. Second, most enemies are dumb and won't move at least for a second, so you instantly have 200d minimum, on more than one enemy. Even if you are giving up the 'Touch of Flame' perk as you are using double grenades (as in your example), the ToF perk is at most only giving fusion grenades a 20% buff. 165 becomes 195. No big deal imho. And in PvP, solar grenades really seem to fvck with people when playing control. They move off the grenade, but ALWAYS misjudge it's range (13') and it's 3.5 sec length. The other problem with the Starfire is this. I would have go give up the Skull exotic 36 helmet. This helmet gives increased grenade throw abilities, and replenishes super energy meter with each grenade kill. I don't know what the buff is here, but it seems to help when using the above two solar grenade spam system. Solars often will get 2-3 kills on dumb enemies. With double solars, I can keep dropping them every 20 seconds. So 8-9 kills a minute? The helmet buff basically doubles the super replenish time, then giving around 6 sec bonus rather than 3. So it reduces the cooldown 25 sec or so every minute. Maybe a 30% reduction in Super cooldown? I actually don't care for the solar grenades (or vortex grenades for voidwalkers) all that much in PvE. They have their uses, but I really like the big damage (much more than 165) you get from sticking an enemy with a fusion grenade. I'll admit that they aren't very good when they don't stick, but sticking is really easy, it's like they have auto aim or something. Stick a thrall and there's a good chance you blow up all the others in the pack. Throw a solar grenade, and watch them all take a little damage, stand there until it goes away, then resume their attack. Solars are great for keeping thrall off you in the first part of Crota's End, bad at killing Swordbearers and Knights efficiently later on. It all comes down to personal preference, and Starfire matches mine pretty well. I'm going to have to try Skull while running Sunsinger -- it should work pretty well the way you described even though it's supposed to be more of a Voidwalker specific item. I use it all the time as a Voidwalker in conjunction with Bad Juju, and Skull gives you the Hunger perk for free (it doesn't explicitly say this, but that's what the "siphoning abilities are improved" thing actually means). Add in the Embrace the Void perk, and all your abilities end up reducing the cooldown of other abilities. It's a grenade and super extravaganza! Not quite as awesome as an Obsidian Mind + Bad Juju "all Nova Bomb all the time" build would be, but probably the next best thing.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 9, 2015 12:53:03 GMT -5
Comments on Warlock chests:
1) I had the same doubts regarding the "Heart of Praxic Fire". Lots of veteran Destiny players swear behind it though, I think to unleash its power the Warlock should completely change their mentality to use Supers offensively and aggressively, instead of relying Fireborn for a second life. Imagine this:
a) Max intellect build with Bad Juju; b) Use "Radiant Skin" instead of Fireborn so you are much harder to kill in Radiance mode; c) Use "Radiant Will" to increase the duration of your Super;
You'll have Super all the time and every time you do, you can either obliterate a large crowd of minions with grenade+melee combo, or bombard a boss with twice as many solar grenades as you usually have so he has no place to run away to. You will also be dropping tons of orbs for your teammates, get everybody else to use Super faster.
In other words, instead of greatly under utilizing the Super by only turning yourself into a more robust "cat" with 2 lives, you make yourself into a war god in gold flames.
2) Starfire Protocol is not nearly as great. Yes, you can now free your last column and consider "Touch of Flame", but Fusion Grenades are just OK with it. You do a bit more damage to the boss, but they usually have some kind of resistance.
It is still a solid piece though, especially if you have Vex Mythclast. Vex is one of the few primary weapons that could have ammo problems, so carry more ammo can be quite useful. Combine that with your favorite Fusion Rifle special you'll be able to have a much easier time in both PvP and PvE.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 9, 2015 12:53:45 GMT -5
Ooohhhh.... I always forget the names of the grenades and mistakenly thought the fusion ones were the AoE... which is actually solar. Okay well I can see how this might still benefit me for PvE. It could be good vs bosses to put some more hurt on and maybe with touch of flame you could still ignite groups? I'm not sure.
But if I can't use it with solar grenades then that definitely limits me. I run solar grenades almost exclusively. I only switch to fusion occasionally for big bosses. In fact I tend to run firebolt more often, to use against wizards.
For PvP this seems like it won't benefit me at all. It basically gives me touch of flame for free, but limits me to fusion and since I'm dropping voidfang I also lose spawning with full grenades. Do fusion grenades even need touch of flame in PvP to kill? I dunno. In clash or another game type maybe. For control running double solars with voidfang is nasty business. Hell the more I die the more grenades I get so it sort of directly counters low KDR, and if fighting over B hardcore I can zerg it a few times then hit my super and carpet the place in AoE death.
I'll probably still get it, though. Would be nice to have something I can use besides voidfang... Although, having grenades on spawn can be quite useful in PvE as well sometimes. I can literally zerg from a checkpoint if need be and have 2 grenades each spawn.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 9, 2015 12:57:35 GMT -5
I actually don't care for the solar grenades (or vortex grenades for voidwalkers) all that much in PvE. They have their uses, but I really like the big damage (much more than 165) you get from sticking an enemy with a fusion grenade. I'll admit that they aren't very good when they don't stick, but sticking is really easy, it's like they have auto aim or something. Stick a thrall and there's a good chance you blow up all the others in the pack. Throw a solar grenade, and watch them all take a little damage, stand there until it goes away, then resume their attack. Solars are great for keeping thrall off you in the first part of Crota's End, bad at killing Swordbearers and Knights efficiently later on. It all comes down to personal preference, and Starfire matches mine pretty well. I think with the solars, the key is what you said. Why I like them in tight spots. If the enemy(s) doesn't die, they "Stand there until it goes away". That's precisely what I want the enemies to do in hard areas. Just don't move for two seconds. That helps me, so I can reload, regroup and then take them out in the next sequence. Solar will constantly chase just about any tough opponent back or off a spot. I got my info on the grenade stuff a while back. This place. www.destinygamewiki.com/wiki/Fusion_GrenadeIt says the area of affect is small. So flak damage is minimal? And the above site says the total damage is 165d if it sticks. If I toss a solar, it does 100d instantly, then will deal another 100d at the 1 sec mark. Most all enemies, even knights, will stay still for a second. If you can sneak in the third sec, you are up to 300d.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 9, 2015 12:59:53 GMT -5
I haven't been through CsE but I actually love using solars on Knights. I shoot them until they hide behind shield then just toss the grenade right at the shield. They usually just sit there for the full duration taking damage. If it doesn't kill them it at least negates shield healing and keeps their shields down until they drop shield and I can pop 'em.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 9, 2015 13:07:26 GMT -5
Comments on Warlock chests: 1) I had the same doubts regarding the "Heart of Praxic Fire". Lots of veteran Destiny players swear behind it though, I think to unleash its power the Warlock should completely change their mentality to use Supers offensively and aggressively, instead of relying Fireborn for a second life. Imagine this: a) Max intellect build with Bad Juju; b) Use "Radiant Skin" instead of Fireborn so you are much harder to kill in Radiance mode; c) Use "Radiant Will" to increase the duration of your Super; You'll have Super all the time and every time you do, you can either obliterate a large crowd of minions with grenade+melee combo, or bombard a boss with twice as many solar grenades as you usually have so he has no place to run away to. You will also be dropping tons of orbs for your teammates, get everybody else to use Super faster. In other words, instead of greatly under utilizing the Super by only turning yourself into a more robust "cat" with 2 lives, you make yourself into a war god in gold flames. 2) Starfire Protocol is not nearly as great. Yes, you can now free your last column and consider "Touch of Flame", but Fusion Grenades are just OK with it. You do a bit more damage to the boss, but they usually have some kind of resistance. It is still a solid piece though, especially if you have Vex Mythclast. Vex is one of the few primary weapons that could have ammo problems, so carry more ammo can be quite useful. Combine that with your favorite Fusion Rifle special you'll be able to have a much easier time in both PvP and PvE. Realistically, Radiance should be used offensively anyway, regardless of what exotic you're using. Fireborn is a crutch. A very useful crutch, but a crutch nonetheless. All HotPF does is reduce your cooldowns a bit more while using Radiance. That's great, but at most you're going to be able to toss one or two more grenades than usual. You're already throwing 6 to 8 grenades, so how much good is a couple more going to do you? I just don't see it being that useful in a general sense. The rest of the build is viable regardless of your exotic or grenade choice, too. Since THebb has it, maybe he'd be kind enough to do a comparison of maximum grenades with and without HotPF equipped. That would shine some more light on things I'd think.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 9, 2015 13:11:26 GMT -5
What I got from Xur this week: 1) I bought the Titan helmet only because I don't have it. Probably will be shelved in "mint" condition forever; 2) I re-bought Lucky Resperry and dismantled my current one, so essentially an upgrade. Why? Because the piece on sale have insanely high Intellect stats roll (150+ when fully upgraded), way more than my previous piece; 3) I re-upgraded Apotheosis Veil simply because it has 10 more Disciplines than my current piece. Might be a bit of waste because Veil is not a great armor piece, but since there is nothing else to spend my currency on, why not? 4) Restocked heavy ammo on all 3 characters to ~20 packs each; iw5000, to address your complaints about a) why offer upgrades repeatedly: this is because i) players are still getting old pieces from VoG, and ii) upgrades is a way to "up" the stats roll, like what I did with "Apotheosis Veil"; b) TLW: yes, it is a crappy hand cannon for PvE, not only the worst in all exotic HCs, but inferior to many legendary ones as well. HOWEVER, TLW is great fun to use in PvP and the best weapon to shoot from hip. It introduces different play style and refreshing "fashions" (dat twirl animation) into the otherwise somewhat repetitive game play; c) The more general question: why bother with "X" when "Y" is simply more superior? The answer is: variety. Customize my loadouts around an exotic weapon/armor to come up with a unique loadout and maximize its advantage is the biggest source of fun for me from playing Destiny. The missions are the same, the enemies are predicable, what's making me come back to Destiny again and again is the possibility to kill them in new ways (and of course loot . However, I am trying to push loot into secondary concerns, Fun should come first).
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 9, 2015 13:11:45 GMT -5
With solars I actually love them vs Thrall. Thrall usually have low enough health they die really easily to them. CsE being a bit of exception. Vs Thrall it works best if you can hit the lead Thrall in the face with it, that way you get them with the initial blast (yes there is one) as well as get a bunch into the AoE right away. This also brings it up off the floor which gives you more AoE potential than having half the sphere underground not doing anything. That's particularly key on a slope as it reduces the vertical silhouette of the effective AoE.
I'm also with IW on the enemies holding back and waiting. I'm totally cool with that. Time to either reload or shoot them in the face through the AoE. Or even rush in and palm smack them. The initial burst will hurt yourself, but the AoE is harmless to you, so I will often use them in close quarters just to get enemies off me for a moment.
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