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Post by mrbone2u on Dec 19, 2014 21:50:34 GMT -5
Why everyone is bitching around the steel bite(Damage +3, Accuracy -2, Fire Rate -1)? It shoots at 810 rpm (720 console). The hole puncher (Damage +2, Accuracy -1, Handling -1) maintains the 900 rpm losing less accuracy. i dont think anyone was bitching about it, most of us would be happy to get it
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Post by xFEARtheSHIELDx on Dec 20, 2014 11:41:56 GMT -5
Best: AR- BAL27 (inferno variant imo best gun period) SMG- ASM1 (magnitude & speakeasy very very good variants) Sniper- MORS Shotgun- Bulldog LMG- Amelli Pistol- RW1 Worst: AR- Mk14 (would be good if it was 2-3hk or 1hit to the head) *honorable mention- AE4 SMG- AMR Sniper- NA45 (virtually unusable in core modes) Shotgun- S12 LMG- EMP3 (not sure how this even made it on the game) Pistol- atlas 45 I agree with all of this, but I'd like to add a note about the NA45. I feel like many people write this gun off too quickly. The key to using it is actually trying to NOT hit players, but hitting the ground/wall near them. Definitely try it out with Danger Close as well. It's probably the best area denial weapon in the game, and easily the most fun I've ever had with a sniper rifle. That said, I do have the elite variant Ravager, with +3 damage, so maybe the base version isn't as fun. It doesn't need any attachments, but then again I haven't unlocked stock or irons yet.
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Post by mrbone2u on Dec 20, 2014 12:48:49 GMT -5
Best: AR- BAL27 (inferno variant imo best gun period) SMG- ASM1 (magnitude & speakeasy very very good variants) Sniper- MORS Shotgun- Bulldog LMG- Amelli Pistol- RW1 Worst: AR- Mk14 (would be good if it was 2-3hk or 1hit to the head) *honorable mention- AE4 SMG- AMR Sniper- NA45 (virtually unusable in core modes) Shotgun- S12 LMG- EMP3 (not sure how this even made it on the game) Pistol- atlas 45 I agree with all of this, but I'd like to add a note about the NA45. I feel like many people write this gun off too quickly. The key to using it is actually trying to NOT hit players, but hitting the ground/wall near them. Definitely try it out with Danger Close as well. It's probably the best area denial weapon in the game, and easily the most fun I've ever had with a sniper rifle. That said, I do have the elite variant Ravager, with +3 damage, so maybe the base version isn't as fun. It doesn't need any attachments, but then again I haven't unlocked stock or irons yet. Is there any evidence that danger close has an effect on the explosive round?
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ThatGuy
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 20, 2014 13:48:56 GMT -5
Is the mk14 w/ +1 Damage a 2Hk at close range (anywear to the body)?
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Post by Ironforce92 on Dec 20, 2014 19:12:41 GMT -5
Damage increases only min damage not max.
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 20, 2014 19:26:09 GMT -5
Damage increases only min damage not max. From my own testing, I don't think that's true at all. Each variant seems to be it's own unique weapon, rather than just being affected by some common modifier. For example, the MP11 Goliath has it's mid-range damage increased from 24 to 30+. I wouldn't be surprised if it's max damage is also higher. Or maybe on some weapons the max damage is decreased while the minimum is increased, and some vice-versa.
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Post by hard1ine on Dec 20, 2014 22:15:51 GMT -5
S Tier: BAL-27 ASM1
A Tier: AK-12 KF5
B Tier: HBRa3 IMR SAC3 EM1
C Tier: SN6 RW1
D Tier: Every other gun that isn't mentioned in this post
F Tier: Mk 14 EPM3 Tac-19 S-12 Bulldog
Worst weapon balancing since MP40's at War.
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ThatGuy
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Post by ThatGuy on Dec 21, 2014 4:10:38 GMT -5
Ik heard someone say that the tac19 w/ advanced rifeling does decreas its 1hk range (but does increas its max range) can anyone confirm?
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 21, 2014 4:40:16 GMT -5
Ik heard someone say that the tac19 w/ advanced rifeling does decreas its 1hk range (but does increas its max range) can anyone confirm? Nothing that marvel has showed us would suggest anything of the sort. Advanced rifling is a flat 1.25x multiplier to all range drop-offs. The pellet count and the damage-per-pellet values should stay the same. What your friend is experiencing is the random nature of pellet spread.
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 21, 2014 8:52:11 GMT -5
How is the Tac-19 not on this list? Well I play hard core and the Tac-19 has 30 minimum damage with incredible range. It is an absolute beast there, snagging 1 hit kills from any normal encounter range. I love just flying around maps with that thing. Just 1 pellet has to connect. So it's actually beneficial to use variants with less accuracy (more hipfire spread) so you can have even worse aim and still hit your target. If they increased the low damage to 34, would that make it more viable in core? Or would that become overpowered Alright I just tried using the Tac-19 in core, as my daily challenge has to do with Uplink. Jesus Foxtroting Christ, I now know what you guys are talking about. What an absolute piece of garbage. It's so much fun in hard core, but in core this thing is unusable. (using the base model with advanced rifling and extended mags) Maybe a +damage variant would be usable, if it cuts it from 4 pellets to 3? (damage>34)
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Post by strokedem on Dec 21, 2014 10:29:03 GMT -5
I agree with all of this, but I'd like to add a note about the NA45. I feel like many people write this gun off too quickly. The key to using it is actually trying to NOT hit players, but hitting the ground/wall near them. Definitely try it out with Danger Close as well. It's probably the best area denial weapon in the game, and easily the most fun I've ever had with a sniper rifle. That said, I do have the elite variant Ravager, with +3 damage, so maybe the base version isn't as fun. It doesn't need any attachments, but then again I haven't unlocked stock or irons yet. Is there any evidence that danger close has an effect on the explosive round? I know flak jacket has an effect. Ive stuck someone with a semtex and got a hitmarker. That should never happen. But about the NA45, I bet the +3 damage elite version is a huge help. When I played with it I was using the other elite version "Screamin" which has -1 damage and I could only do well in HC.
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Post by brcm on Dec 21, 2014 11:26:19 GMT -5
Well I play hard core and the Tac-19 has 30 minimum damage with incredible range. It is an absolute beast there, snagging 1 hit kills from any normal encounter range. I love just flying around maps with that thing. Just 1 pellet has to connect. So it's actually beneficial to use variants with less accuracy (more hipfire spread) so you can have even worse aim and still hit your target. If they increased the low damage to 34, would that make it more viable in core? Or would that become overpowered Alright I just tried using the Tac-19 in core, as my daily challenge has to do with Uplink. Jesus Foxtroting Christ, I now know what you guys are talking about. What an absolute piece of garbage. It's so much fun in hard core, but in core this thing is unusable. (using the base model with advanced rifling and extended mags) Maybe a +damage variant would be usable, if it cuts it from 4 pellets to 3? (damage>34) I have the Tac-19 roundhouse variant (+1 range and fire rate, -1 handling and mobility), and it's the most usable shotgun I've played with in AW. I use laser sight and advanced rifling (and extended mags). With all of those attachments - and lightweight and overclock - you won't feel like your getting run over by other weapons. You have to really get a feel for that 1 shot kill range and play to it, but it's fun to use. I almost exclusively hip fire it. My other variants for it are the Bang Stick and Jab, but neither are better. I also have the S-12 Whirlwind and it's probably the best S-12 variant. However, it's still shit. The range is so short and the damage is so low you really do have to be close to knifing distance to get consistency. It's strength (and I use that term lightly) is room clearing. By that I mean if you are playing an objective game like hardpoint or momentum and you will be encountering multiple enemies in a small space it's viable. However, if there is only 1 enemy, you might as well just knife him. You have to be that fucking close. I've been running behind an enemy and empty an entire clip into him - getting hitmarkers - and he didn't die. I think it's an accuracy/spread problem. And he was well within the range where 1-2 shots from the Tac Roundhouse would have killed him. The S-12 should be a secondary. The bulldoge is the worst shotgun in my opinion. It would probably be quite good if the fire rate was higher - but I also noticed that AW offer no increase fire rate variants of this particular gun. I can get one-shot kills at longer ranges with the Tac-19 and I can get faster closer range multi-kills with the S-12. The bulldog has no middle ground of viability. I'm still hoping for the Face Hammer variant because I think it MIGHT be a considerable upgrade. Tl;dr: From my experience, the best shotgun is the Tac-19 Roundhouse for standard game modes. The S-12 is viable in VERY specific situations. The Bulldoge is garbage (but am waiting to try the Face Hammer).
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Post by strokedem on Dec 21, 2014 12:04:54 GMT -5
I have the face hammer. Its alright. Only good for two kills, 3 max before having to reload. I really only use it with overkill on my sniper class. With fast hands it can be a life saver. I also have the roundhouse. I prefer the facehammer because of the fire rate.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 21, 2014 16:46:34 GMT -5
Well I play hard core and the Tac-19 has 30 minimum damage with incredible range. It is an absolute beast there, snagging 1 hit kills from any normal encounter range. I love just flying around maps with that thing. Just 1 pellet has to connect. So it's actually beneficial to use variants with less accuracy (more hipfire spread) so you can have even worse aim and still hit your target. If they increased the low damage to 34, would that make it more viable in core? Or would that become overpowered Alright I just tried using the Tac-19 in core, as my daily challenge has to do with Uplink. Jesus Foxtroting Christ, I now know what you guys are talking about. What an absolute piece of garbage. It's so much fun in hard core, but in core this thing is unusable. (using the base model with advanced rifling and extended mags) Maybe a +damage variant would be usable, if it cuts it from 4 pellets to 3? (damage>34) Yeah, the 30 damage per pellet wouldn't be so bad if it had some tight SMG spread and BO2 style ADS, but the LMG style spread means you are usually hitting with less than half the pellets. A +damage variant increases it to 9 pellets which would increase the odds of hitting with at least 4 pellets, but only a little.
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Post by wg4f on Jan 1, 2015 14:33:04 GMT -5
Worst weapon balancing since MP40's at War. Someone didn't play BO1 haha
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asasa
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fuck
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Post by asasa on Jan 1, 2015 14:51:17 GMT -5
Worst gun in game without any doubt is the EMP3.
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Post by cashmoves on Jan 1, 2015 15:49:41 GMT -5
grach is absolutely unusable. even in Touch Football its unusable. its a 5 shot kill and a two bullet burst... meaning, you have to literally burst THREE times to take a guy out. its beyond dreadful and it might keep me from actually getting royal camo on pistols. and i always max out pistols in cod.
its unbelievably bad.
atlas isn't good, but its still usable, you just have to know you gotta land 4 shots. period. three bursts to kill though, with awful gunkick, its just horrendous. inexcusable.
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Post by r00stad00ks on Jan 2, 2015 4:50:40 GMT -5
Best AR - AK Hair trigger/ARX Steel bite. I don't notice the negative stats on the ARX but I sure feel the positives. From personal experience the hair trigger outclasses the other full auto AR's and I prefer it over the RIP.
Best SMG - KF5 Breakneck. I break it out when a momentum lobby gets taken over by ASM1's and I think it's honestly on par or better than the ASM1. I may change my mind if I get the Goliath or speakeasy.
Best Shotgun - Bulldog Facehammer. I think it's very good and I have had some really good games with it. I'm still really irritated that you need 25 double kills for extended mags...
Best LMG - Ameli I like a bunch of the variants on this gun and can't pick a favorite.
Skipping Snipers and handguns because I don't use them.
Worst AR - Would probably have to be the MK14 with the variants that hurt the range. I don't mind it but it clearly is the weakest AR.
Wort SMG - AMR9 by a mile. I can't stand this thing and the only way to use it is as a attachment on a grenade launcher.
Worst Shotgun - S12, not breaking any new ground by calling this thing hot garbage.
Worst Heavy - EPM3 the one positive thing I can say is that it isn't as bad as the S12.
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banana
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Post by banana on Jan 2, 2015 13:19:35 GMT -5
Interesting smg and AR choice
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Post by thegentleman on Jan 2, 2015 17:20:57 GMT -5
Best of what I've used:
MP11 Goliath: melts when I have a decent connection, and keeps me generally alive when I don't. I typically run rifling, rapid fire, foregrip. Foregrip and silencer is another nice option for a max 5hk at all ranges.
Ameli Heavy: whenever I get pissed off and am having a bad time in a lobby, I have a class with foregrip, stock, and silencer. About 60% of the time this small class change is enough from breaking even to getting a bombing run + goliath streak.
BAL Inferno: don't have this yet, but every time I pick one off the ground I get a little angry. Literally one of the best variants of the best gun in the game. I have the Carbon, but I'd trade the flat 4HK for beating every close-range AR user who comes up against me. Given the connection environment, every time I get killed by this it looks like I get one-shotted on my screen. Would love to get some AK variants, but the drops haven't paid off here.
Shotguns: I have way, way better luck with the Bulldog. At distances I expect to kill people, I can kill people with two or three shots. Far less frustrating than using the Tac-19. Rather than "maybe" one shot them, being in the habit of quickly shooting 3 times is easier to train myself to do. I feel like the shotguns should all have about 50 to 75% of the range they do considering that players are more mobile than ever before. Having to get into knifing range is a joke.
Worst:
AMR9 / SN6: I've been trying to use it recently just because it's so much of an odd duck. It seems like the pro pipe can one-burst kill at any distance on firing range with its +2 damage, but the fire rate is atrocious. Going to grind to get rapid fire and see if that makes any bit of a difference. I have less frustration using it as part of a riot shield class, as stunned people with less than a third of a mag of ammo are usually easier to two-burst. Poopy, but unusual. I actually like the SN6 less, because it literally has no reason to exist. According to the game, it should be the lowest recoil SMG, but I find the MP11, KF5, and ASM way easier to control, which begs the question of why use this at all. Even the Executioner +1 damage version cuts it to a 5hk at the farthest ranges in firing line (suppressed), but the recoil is so stupid and inconsistent there's no way to take advantage of the gun that far out. This has literally no niche.
S12: Tried the S12 the other day. Died several times after unleashing literal clouds of buckshot into people that were maybe 20 feet away, tops. Far, far worse than even the AA12 in MW3, which had set a low bar for any gun in any CoD game.
Launchers: each of these is an unmitigated pile of ass. For the molasses-slow draw time, glacial ADS time, and extremely limited ammo, you'd think that either the MAWS or MAHEM would be able to kill something if you've used Danger Close. Getting five kills with any launcher was by far the most frustrating daily challenge I've ever completed.
Special: tried really using the MDL grenade launcher. Its use is so situational and opportunity-cost heavy that it's really hard to make a case for it. When two or three danger close grenades are needed to get a kill (assuming you know, generally, where those grenades will explode), it begs the question of why one wouldn't just shoot some semtex or a frag and actually have a chance of blowing someone up.
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Post by cashmoves on Jan 2, 2015 19:26:27 GMT -5
I feel like the shotguns should all have about 50 to 75% of the range they do considering that players are more mobile than ever before. Having to get into knifing range is a joke. yep. try getting the point blank medals for royal camo on the pistols... its retarded. not as retarded as hip fire kills with the rail gun (even at kissing distance, you have about only a 60-70% of a kill...) but still pretty damn awful.
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 2, 2015 20:14:08 GMT -5
I feel like the shotguns should all have about 50 to 75% of the range they do considering that players are more mobile than ever before. Having to get into knifing range is a joke. yep. try getting the point blank medals for royal camo on the pistols... its retarded. not as retarded as hip fire kills with the rail gun (even at kissing distance, you have about only a 60-70% of a kill...) but still pretty gosh darn golly gee whiz awful. Meh I was able to get royalty on the pistols in a grand total of about 8 hours. For the point blank & sliding medals, use the tactical knife attachment and get knife kills (they count). For all other challenges, play on hard core.
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Post by cashmoves on Jan 3, 2015 9:49:05 GMT -5
yep. try getting the point blank medals for royal camo on the pistols... its retarded. not as retarded as hip fire kills with the rail gun (even at kissing distance, you have about only a 60-70% of a kill...) but still pretty gosh darn golly gee whiz awful. Meh I was able to get royalty on the pistols in a grand total of about 8 hours. For the point blank & sliding medals, use the tactical knife attachment and get knife kills (they count). For all other challenges, play on hard core. i thought that the tac knife did not count towards low blow medals but for some reason i think normal melee did... i can't remember, but i remember thinking, YES! i can just slide tac knife!, but then i dont think it worked. which is dumb. in fact, i dont think tac knife kills count at all towards your pistol actually. ive used it quite extensively, especially in S&D, which is a lot of fun. i actually might have to partially retract my previous statement, the akimbo grach is actually pretty good. i was surprised to see that the designer did not completely screw over the hipspread, its very usable. in my S&D class, i now have akimbo + EM on the grach and my MORS. of course, that wont ever outdo overkill ASM1, but it gets style points and is still effective in close range, which is all i need it to be. oddly enough, the akimbo machine pistols are not good. way way too many bullets to kill. the grach kills quickly for akimbo.
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 3, 2015 10:07:37 GMT -5
Meh I was able to get royalty on the pistols in a grand total of about 8 hours. For the point blank & sliding medals, use the tactical knife attachment and get knife kills (they count). For all other challenges, play on hard core. i thought that the tac knife did not count towards low blow medals but for some reason i think normal melee did... i can't remember, but i remember thinking, YES! i can just slide tac knife!, but then i dont think it worked. which is dumb. in fact, i dont think tac knife kills count at all towards your pistol actually. The tac knife does indeed work for low blow medals, I can guarantee that, there is no way I would have completed the RW1 without it.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Jan 3, 2015 14:54:09 GMT -5
[The Grach] is a 5 shot kill It's a 3 shot kill at point blank and a 4 shot kill where you should be using it. The MDL should have attachments that modify the grenades. Frags that explode on impact would be hard to balance, but stuns or thermals that explode on contact would be hilarious and balanced. Actually, the MDL should just come with variable grenades by default. I want a tactical grenade launcher, gosh darn it. As a primary, it should also be affected by Scavenger.
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Post by thegentleman on Jan 3, 2015 15:02:24 GMT -5
The One Wood Grach variant is even better. Tried it on firing range and was getting 4HKs out to a surprisingly long distance. To me that puts it on par with the Atlas as a secondary.
I mean, it's still not great by any stretch of the imagination, but I had some okay luck farting around with it as part of a shield class.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Jan 3, 2015 15:08:13 GMT -5
I played with it against bots and, even in the four shot kill range, the TTK is laughably bad due to the burst delay.
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Post by cashmoves on Jan 3, 2015 17:38:59 GMT -5
i thought that the tac knife did not count towards low blow medals but for some reason i think normal melee did... i can't remember, but i remember thinking, YES! i can just slide tac knife!, but then i dont think it worked. which is dumb. in fact, i dont think tac knife kills count at all towards your pistol actually. The tac knife does indeed work for low blow medals, I can guarantee that, there is no way I would have completed the RW1 without it. sorry, you are definitely right. i remember now a low blow kill i got in S&D with the tac knife. i remember it specifically because i got 64,100 XP for that game of S&D, which was a record for me. hopefully i am not also wrong about the melee counting towards the pistol medal... because i really thought that normal melee's counted when i was trying to get that camo.
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Will
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Post by Will on Jan 4, 2015 12:38:48 GMT -5
The tac knife does indeed work for low blow medals, I can guarantee that, there is no way I would have completed the RW1 without it. sorry, you are definitely right. i remember now a low blow kill i got in S&D with the tac knife. i remember it specifically because i got 64,100 XP for that game of S&D, which was a record for me. hopefully i am not also wrong about the melee counting towards the pistol medal... because i really thought that normal melee's counted when i was trying to get that camo. It will only count towards the pistol camo if you have the tac knife attachment on.
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Post by r00stad00ks on Jan 5, 2015 6:44:46 GMT -5
I wanted to pop in and update my sniper and handguns thoughts.
I actually kind of like the NA 45. It is a really stupid gun and I can't see it working in most game modes but I have had a lot more fun than I was expecting with it in momentum. If you can get a fell for it I suggest using it with fast hands and the atlas 20MM. It's a surprising fun combo but don't expect to be going super positive either.
For handguns I would like to say that the grach and the atlas 45 are complete and total garbage. I think the executioner was a better gun and dual wielded are much more fun gun than these. I really wish I knew why these had to be so bad. I really liked the grach and the p226 in ghosts and loved the tac 45 in blops 2. Now we get these awful piles... The RW-1 and PDW aren't that bad though.
I had to rant a little bit about the pistols because I am still pretty hot about how bad they are.
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