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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 27, 2014 18:38:07 GMT -5
If you didn't know the EM1 has a fire time of 0 ms, meaning that it fires every frame. This is good an all on consoles, but it means that on PCs, it can fire faster than it's supposed to due to the higher possible frame rates on PC (which has a maximum of 91 FPS).
A single frame on consoles at 60 FPS takes 16.67 ms (that's 1000 / 60).
So give the EM1 a fire time of 16 ms. This doesn't affect it on consoles since it'll always be ready to fire on each new frame since the cool down is faster than a single frame.
However, the increased fire time will cause it have a slower and more consistent rate of fire on PC.
This thread is now about how Sledgehammer doesn't play test.
Why do XMGs (and, to a lesser extent, the EM1) need long shots? Why do the Pytaek and Ameli need hip fire kills? Why is the EPM3 even in the game?
Who thought that 50 triple kills with the original timer was even remotely acceptable?
Why is stock unlocked with hip fire kills?
If Glen removed Dead Silence because he didn't want obligatory perks, why is there Toughness?
Do the developers still think a red dot sight is equivalent to literally any other class selectable?
Why can't I stop eating tamales?
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 27, 2014 18:44:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure how well I understand frame rounding, but wouldn't a 16 ms delay make it detrimental to have a frame rate higher than 60 fps? It seems that would mean that the delay would make it only shoot once every 2 frames at 91 fps you would shoot at 2730 RPM? Whereas at 60 fps it is able to shoot every frame, achieving 3600 RPM?
Since a frame at 91 fps is about 11ms, a 16ms firetime would mean two frames have to pass (22ms) for each hitscan fired, making the effective firetime at 22ms. 22ms shots is 2728 RPM (using unrounded numbers it's 2730 RPM)
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 27, 2014 18:56:53 GMT -5
Yeah, probably.
However, on consoles, literally any value between 0 and 16 will result in no difference to current behavior.
Something else to remember is that frame rate is not rock solid on PC. Some people have beast rigs. Some people tweak the game until it works well on their hardware. But most people don't. Most people's frame rates are fluctuating all over the place.
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 27, 2014 19:01:24 GMT -5
If Glen removed Dead Silence because he didn't want obligatory perks, why is there Toughness? Never used Toughness. Is it good? I would consider Blast Suppressor to be the most "obligatory" perk. But I do miss my Dead Silence. Exo Mute was a cute and fun idea, but the experiment failed. It needs to completely mute ALL sound (including character voice, exo suit movement, bomb planting) and the timer needs to last 3x longer. Actually, all of the non-overclock/cloak exo abilities need to have their timers tripled.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 27, 2014 19:05:39 GMT -5
I like Toughness. Makes me feel like a big guy.
Marvel hasn't revealed the multiplier for Toughness, but it's probably low. However, flinch is a major factor in one on one gun fights and thus I appreciate any reduction.
I don't use Blast Suppressor except for guns that don't need Scavenger or Toughness. I just don't boost if I know I'm near enemies. I'm the lame guy taking the ladders.
Exo movements can be sound whored easily and thus using them recklessly is a dumb idea, perk or not.
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Post by dunsparceflinch on Dec 27, 2014 21:07:15 GMT -5
yeah, they should have just made "dead silence" and "amplify" but for exo movements only.
On topic:
- how did they manage to be the first team to misalign (EDIT: DEFAULT) sniper scopes? - why does the bulldog need 25 double kills for extended mags? - why are the Mk14 and AMR9 in this game? - How is it they made the variants individually but can't patch them individually? - Why would you say you are going to listen to the community, then only respond to trolls?
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Dec 27, 2014 21:23:38 GMT -5
MW2 in general had some...unique features.
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 27, 2014 22:36:09 GMT -5
Eh, misaligned sights aren't -that- big of a deal. I mean, it sucks, but at least it's consistent and you can adjust for them accordingly. Back in my day, we had ADS spread and we liked it.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Dec 27, 2014 23:15:49 GMT -5
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Dec 28, 2014 3:12:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure how well I understand frame rounding, but wouldn't a 16 ms delay make it detrimental to have a frame rate higher than 60 fps? It seems that would mean that the delay would make it only shoot once every 2 frames at 91 fps you would shoot at 2730 RPM? Whereas at 60 fps it is able to shoot every frame, achieving 3600 RPM? Since a frame at 91 fps is about 11ms, a 16ms firetime would mean two frames have to pass (22ms) for each hitscan fired, making the effective firetime at 22ms. 22ms shots is 2728 RPM (using unrounded numbers it's 2730 RPM) Yes, that's exactly how it would behave. Maybe if they just finally fixed this god forsaken engine flaw we wouldn't have this problem. But that's just how it is. Maybe their justification for the higher RPM is that the recoil also increases with fps and is considerably higher than it is on console. Doesn't matter much when you hipfire all the time, but it's something. They should have just left the damage at 5-4-3 on PC and it would be fine.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 28, 2014 3:13:49 GMT -5
Do you know why Mexicans make tamales for Christmas?
Because tamales are amazing. They're so good. This is my last one for today. Probably.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Dec 28, 2014 3:33:37 GMT -5
If you didn't know the EM1 has a fire time of 0 ms, meaning that it fires every frame. This is good an all on consoles, but it means that on PCs, it can fire faster than it's supposed to due to the higher possible frame rates on PC (which has a maximum of 91 FPS). A single frame on consoles at 60 FPS takes 16.67 ms (that's 1000 / 60). So give the EM1 a fire time of 16 ms. This doesn't affect it on consoles since it'll always be ready to fire on each new frame since the cool down is faster than a single frame. EM1: talking about ROF is a bit confusing as there is no "damage" related to a "single" shot. EM1 "touches" the target, although we can talk about damage of the first "touch", what happens later is not what rifles do. It is a "laser" - it "produces dmg". I 'll create a new thread and produce some testing results, I have some pre-patch data, I am curious what is changed. denkirson.proboards.com/post/199705/thread
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 29, 2014 11:02:22 GMT -5
You know what, better idea.
The problem with this original idea was what Wheatley said: it reduces the fire rate on PC to 2700 RPM. That's not a bad thing, but it's not what I wanted to do.
So idea: BO2 introduced guns that vary fire rate over time. All of these have an initial fire rate and then change to some other fire rate.
What if a gun oscillated between two fire rates? There are only so many viable fire rates at 60 FPS, but you could effectively create other fire rates by blending the fire rates that do work.
For example, you could have a gun that fires at 900 RPM and then at 720 RPM, etc., and effectively have an 810 RPM gun.
Marvel can confirm, but I suspect that BO2 (and thus also AW) have an initial and default fire rates defined. This means that the above would require more code to implement, but it should be supported by the engine.
Regarding the EM1, this would allow the creation of a gun that fires every two out of three frames on at 90 FPS, thereby bringing the fire rate much more in line with consoles.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 29, 2014 13:16:12 GMT -5
I am wholly convinced every weapon had 25 double kills for extended mags. It was then changed to 6 or whatever and the devs simply forgot about the Bulldog because it's obvious none of these guys play shotguns.
...it probably took them multiple attempts to get that trailer shot where the guy gets a one shot with the Tac.
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Will
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Post by Will on Dec 29, 2014 13:28:50 GMT -5
There are a lot of removed attachments too. All of the pistols will have challenges and awards to give you Advanced Rifling, but it is not an attachment selection for 3 of them.
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r
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Post by r on Dec 29, 2014 14:02:59 GMT -5
At 16ms, the EM1 would fire more slowly on PC than on console. At about 30ms, they would fire equally fast at 63Hz and 91Hz.
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pachiderm
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Post by pachiderm on Dec 29, 2014 18:14:46 GMT -5
At 16ms, the EM1 would fire more slowly on PC than on console. At about 30ms, they would fire equally fast at 63Hz and 91Hz. At which point they would both suck.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 29, 2014 18:36:56 GMT -5
Nah, just increase its damage to compensate.
It'd be a different gun, but it'd be a more consistent gun.
I think adjusting fire rate assuming a constant 91 FPS is stupid because so few PC players actually have that.
r's suggestion is probably the best one yet: halve the EM1's fire rate, but double its damage or something. 1800 RPM would work at both 60 and 90 FPS and the gun would behave similarly.
(Because higher damage but lower fire rate is affected by missed shots, the damage would probably have to be increased by just slightly more than twofold to compensate. Conveniently, 17 hits to kill isn't divisible by 2 anyway, so rounding down to 8 hits (13 damage) does exactly this.)
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