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Post by iw5000 on Jan 20, 2015 9:50:11 GMT -5
This isn't anything new here. At least to people here. We all know the following:
1. Obsidion Mind Exotic helmet - It's 4th skill tree meter is "Nova Bomb kills reduce the cooldown of your next Nova Bomb"
2. Exotic Gun 'Bad JuJu' - Perk - Install refill/reload on the gun, AND each kill reduces the cooldown of your super by 7.5 sec per kill.
I'm running my 3rd Warlock, lv 32, with 272 with my intellect. Using Voidwalker.
3. Voidwalker Melee modifier - Using the "Soul Rip" (3rd one) Killing an enemy with Energy Drain reduces the cooldown of Nova Bomb
So anyways, the fun here is going to do the Crota entry stage, the Abyss solo. There are plenty of people doing it solo on YouTube, even now post patch through various cheese (ledge jump) and legit solo methods like Hunter invisibility and/or using solar grenades by the Warlock.
But the above VoidWalker route is pretty fun too. I can't say I have accomplished it yet. I messed around with this last night and pre-work this morning for about a half hour. I came close a number of times. Got into the 8 to 11 range of lampposts, even up past the knight near the end. It's very fun and doable, to run this route chaining the above weapons. Linking up four weapons to clear off the thrall. 1. Your grenade. 2. Your Super. and 3. The BadJujU, 4. Your melee. If you work your timing right, it is very doable to almost keep all the above chaining off of each other and just keep rolling right past each lamppost.
Run up to 2nd lamppost. Toss a grenade and get kills. Grenade freezes thrall. Shoot some to finish your super.
Run to 3rd lamppost. Use super. Wipes out most all the thrall, and gets you your next super.
Run to 4th lamppost. Use Super.
etc...
What messes the above up? When LESS thrall attack you. When you get to later lamps, like 6 to 10, the thrall can spread out. One or two attacking here, one or two from there. They are easy enough to kill, but the time spent shooting them slows you down. As well as their few numbers, doesn't recharge your super enough. The key here is to try to always keep a grenade handy, as that's your free ticket out when you are in a bind. Toss it next to you, it wipes them all out, and freezes them for about five seconds.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 20, 2015 10:02:33 GMT -5
Sounds/looks like fun! More fun than cheesing anyway. For reference:
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wings
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Post by wings on Jan 20, 2015 10:11:08 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 20, 2015 10:11:20 GMT -5
And that's why I will never be a YouTuber, because I am always days late in doing video game stuff  But yeah, what he did in the video. That's what I was getting at. * note. for the record...that guy isn't solo. He's got someone on the map with him. Yes, a dead person, but even having another person on the map with you, seems to reduce the #'s of thrall coming at you. At least it feels like that when I have done it. It seems easier with more people. At 1:24 to 1:45... Those two lampposts are tricky to do, as the thrall spread out. That's what I was referring to in my post. |
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 20, 2015 10:13:20 GMT -5
This OP, is why I went to do the Iron Banner.
But then I do dumb stuff like forget to switch to juju and drop 8 bounties into my Icebreaker and Vanquisher....
Oh well, I woulda had to level them anyways
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 20, 2015 10:20:53 GMT -5
Yeah, that's essentially what I am doing, but doing it with the Exotic Obsidion Mind, ...and not the Raid helmet. Obsidion Mind is better. It has a skill meter that says, "Nova Bomb kills reduce the cooldown of your next Nova Bomb"" Not sure how much of a reduction it is, but it seems noticeable. |
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 20, 2015 10:28:22 GMT -5
This OP, is why I went to do the Iron Banner. But then I do dumb stuff like forget to switch to juju and drop 8 bounties into my Icebreaker and Vanquisher.... Oh well, I woulda had to level them anyways The BadJuJu really isn't that good of a weapon, even with all the above stacking stuff. 1. The JuJu's best ability (no-reload/super charge) is only good when it KILLS. And the thing is, when you are going against a tough enemy like something on the VoG Praetorian's, or Atheon, Oracles, or even tough Knights on Crota....the JuJu doesn't kill fast then. It shoots spitballs. What good is a faster cooldown on kills, if the gun is taking 7 to 10 seconds to kill? Not good. On stuff like that, you NEED 4 to 6 seconds per kill. Anything longer and you are not helping the team. So reality is, when the crap hits the fan, you will end up swapping out the JuJu. 2. The above stacking/repeating super stuff, is best used in tough situations, that derive their difficulty out of a large mass of enemies swarming all around. How many situations are like that in Destiny? Crota's Abyss section. Ok. Uh...thinking. I can't think of any more. I'm sure there's one or two more, but you get the point. The above fun stacking stuff being used to be OP against tough situations is very very very situational. 3. So what does that leave you? The above stacking is mostly an OP fun tactic that you will mostly use in situations where it doesn't matter what you use, you are just AIBot-stomping. Maybe it helps you get a mundane 12 min mission done in 10 minutes. Yay. That's where this stuff will be used almost all the time. |
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 20, 2015 10:49:37 GMT -5
I have some questions on this. Which is best for two of the modifiers.
Grenade: Type > Vortex Grenade
Jumping: Teleport or 2nd option.
Nova Bomb: - Modifier > Vortex (1st one) Creates a fixed radius vortex that damages enemies over time.
Melee(Energy Drain): Modifier > Soul Rip (When killing an enemy with Energy Drain you receive a boost to the cooldown of your Super (Nova Bomb).
Skills: first meter > Battle Recovery and Speed
Modifier: Not sure. "Hunger" - Increases the length of your Energy Drain effect. Or... "Annihilate" - increases radius of Nova Bomb and Grenades.
Stats: 2nd one. Training focused on Speed
Modifier: Not sure. "Embrace the Void" (#3). damaging enemies with Nova or grenade, triggers the energy drain effect. Or #1 "Vortex Mastery". Increases duration of both the Nova vortex effect and the vortex effect of the grenades.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 20, 2015 11:09:22 GMT -5
I have some questions on this. Which is best for two of the modifiers. Grenade: Type > Vortex Grenade Jumping: Teleport or 2nd option. Nova Bomb: - Modifier > Vortex (1st one) Creates a fixed radius vortex that damages enemies over time. Melee(Energy Drain): Modifier > Soul Rip (When killing an enemy with Energy Drain you receive a boost to the cooldown of your Super (Nova Bomb). Skills: first meter > Battle Recovery and Speed Modifier: Not sure. "Hunger" - Increases the length of your Energy Drain effect. Or... "Annihilate" - increases radius of Nova Bomb and Grenades. Stats: 2nd one. Training focused on Speed Modifier: Not sure. "Embrace the Void" (#3). damaging enemies with Nova or grenade, triggers the energy drain effect. Or #1 "Vortex Mastery". Increases duration of both the Nova vortex effect and the vortex effect of the grenades. For soloing the Thrall Abyss specifically, I'd go with a) Annihilate and b) Vortex Mastery. Annihilate for sure to potentially kill more thrall with each Nova Bomb and grenade to charge the next Nova Bomb faster, and Vortex Mastery to buy you more time to stand in the vortex field while you lower the weight of darkness and kill some thrall with Bad Juju, also helping to charge Nova Bomb faster. Bloom probably wouldn't be a bad choice either, as the enemies you kill with Nova Bomb, melees, and grenades will explode and kill even more enemies, but I don't know if it'd be better than the extra time Vortex Mastery buys you. Also the exploding enemies could damage you, which might cause an accidental suicide. |
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 20, 2015 11:20:23 GMT -5
With the above, not sure what is best.
1. Is it better to enlarge the radius of your Nova Bomb's vortex, as well as your Grenade's radius vortex....as well as make that Vortex last 'x' seconds longer. This could be good, because a bigger radius traps more Thrall (it's not like they will move away, you toss this stuff, they freeze) And a longer lasting radius, could give you more time when standing next to a lamppost. An extra 2 to 2 seconds might knock that meter down to 0x.
or
2. Is it better to use 'Hunger' and 'Embrace the Void', triggering the energy drain effect when an enemy is damaged, and then also increasing the length of that effect. This might be good, as each time the energy drain is triggered, and longer it is triggered, maybe gets you 'x' more kills, which therefore then further reduced the time between using your Nova Bomb.
Edit. Or do what Heb said, and take a mix of the above two. Good thoughts.
It would be interesting to have some hard numbers with the above. Like just how long is the extra duration on the Vortex?
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 20, 2015 11:31:03 GMT -5
I want to say normal vortex is 3 or 3.5 seconds, increased to 5 seconds with vortex mastery. IIRC, vortex mastery does the same thing for vortex grenades as using Sunbreakers would do for solar grenades on a Sunsinger.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 20, 2015 11:54:39 GMT -5
The BadJuJu really isn't that good of a weapon, even with all the above stacking stuff. 1. The JuJu's best ability (no-reload/super charge) is only good when it KILLS. And the thing is, when you are going against a tough enemy like something on the VoG Praetorian's, or Atheon, Oracles, or even tough Knights on Crota....the JuJu doesn't kill fast then. It shoots spitballs. What good is a faster cooldown on kills, if the gun is taking 7 to 10 seconds to kill? Not good. On stuff like that, you NEED 4 to 6 seconds per kill. Anything longer and you are not helping the team. So reality is, when the crap hits the fan, you will end up swapping out the JuJu. 2. The above stacking/repeating super stuff, is best used in tough situations, that derive their difficulty out of a large mass of enemies swarming all around. How many situations are like that in Destiny? Crota's Abyss section. Ok. Uh...thinking. I can't think of any more. I'm sure there's one or two more, but you get the point. The above fun stacking stuff being used to be OP against tough situations is very very very situational. 3. So what does that leave you? The above stacking is mostly an OP fun tactic that you will mostly use in situations where it doesn't matter what you use, you are just AIBot-stomping. Maybe it helps you get a mundane 12 min mission done in 10 minutes. Yay. That's where this stuff will be used almost all the time. 1. agreed... it's a trash clearer. But I like doing that. On my lone VOG normal run, we started to have success when I deliberately stopped shooting at the boss and cleared the trash and Oracles so my teammates wouldn't have to bother with them. dunno if that's a viable strategy when we do it hard mode... but it worked (well, that and we got another guy to run it with 6 instead of 5) 2. & 3. You make it sound like clearing out the Cosmodrome of level 1/2/3 dregs, vandals, and shanks is a bad thing. Someone's gotta do it, ya know. And the pay is good too |
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wings
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Post by wings on Jan 20, 2015 12:12:47 GMT -5
I suppose the Bad Juju can save you some expense in using heavy ammo for hordes of Thralls.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 20, 2015 14:27:08 GMT -5
On my lone VOG normal run, we started to have success when I deliberately stopped shooting at the boss and cleared the trash and Oracles so my teammates wouldn't have to bother with them. dunno if that's a viable strategy when we do it hard mode... but it worked (well, that and we got another guy to run it with 6 instead of 5) It's always viable, that stuff needs cleared out regardless of whether it's normal or hard. I guess the big question to ask, is if the BadJuJu is the best gun to do the job? At least for me, I tend to like to clear out the Supplicants (if I am doing it) from a safe distance away. No reason to get close to them. I'm not sure the BadJuJu is good at that range. It will get the job done, but ... a second here, a second there, it starts to add up. You spend an extra five or six seconds doing that, you can't get to other things. All in all, I am pretty sure there are much better/faster killing weapons in that primary spot. |
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 20, 2015 15:13:39 GMT -5
On my lone VOG normal run, we started to have success when I deliberately stopped shooting at the boss and cleared the trash and Oracles so my teammates wouldn't have to bother with them. dunno if that's a viable strategy when we do it hard mode... but it worked (well, that and we got another guy to run it with 6 instead of 5) It's always viable, that stuff needs cleared out regardless of whether it's normal or hard. I guess the big question to ask, is if the BadJuJu is the best gun to do the job? At least for me, I tend to like to clear out the Supplicants (if I am doing it) from a safe distance away. No reason to get close to them. I'm not sure the BadJuJu is good at that range. It will get the job done, but ... a second here, a second there, it starts to add up. You spend an extra five or six seconds doing that, you can't get to other things. All in all, I am pretty sure there are much better/faster killing weapons in that primary spot. For sure. TTK is very important |
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 21, 2015 14:10:12 GMT -5
Obsidian Mind takes your grinding for glimmer to the next level.
(For those unaware, the best grind for glimmer is the first Mars story, "Exclusion Zone". Go to open that door where he says "DOS is more complicated", pop a Resupply Code. There is a ship with red Cabal enemies, run past them to the right to that alley between the dunes leading to the dome, when you get there, the second ship will spawn, which drops a bunch of yellow Cabal, murder all of them, making sure not to kill every single enemy, let them kill you or suicide, repeat.)
Your Nova Bomb should take out roughly half of the Cabal majors, and by the time you die you should have your next super charged, so that you can quickly run through using a Nova Bomb every single time.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 21, 2015 14:17:56 GMT -5
Glimmer farming question:
I tried doing that Cabal one, and it got a bit hectic and the suiciding to restart took a while, at least for me. Plus, and I dunno if I had bad luck, but I didn't get that much. Or at least it felt a lot more like work to do
My glimmer farming place: teh 3 hive knights in the Cosmodrome. Easy to kill, 75 glimmer, and they drop silken codex's fairly frequently... It takes 30 seconds ish for the repop (run upstairs, kill the 3 fallen, run down, kill again) so that's 150 a minute... 2250 per 15 minutes... add in 5-10 silken codex's at 1000-2000k... that's 4+k over 15 minutes. And it's so fuggin easy to do
Is the Cabal one that much better?
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 21, 2015 14:32:34 GMT -5
The Exclusion Zone will outpace the three Hive Knights on the Cosmodrone Patrol (aka, 'three musketeers'). And not only will it outpace the three knights, but the three knights also tend to stop spawning after x number of attempts, forcing a person to reset which takes time. That never happens on the EZ. It's predictable. See below.
I tend to do it on level 20. I guess a person needs to match it up to their own level. The EZ offers a number of level choices, starting with Lv8 i believe. I wouldn't go that low.
Not sure why suicide to restart took a while? Always leave at least two enemies at the end. They'll kill you in a few seconds. What you want to avoid is leaving just one cabal enemy left, especially one with a shield. He kills to slow. If that happens, or they won't kill you, use a grenade and blow yourself up. If you do that, take care of business there....you always restart/respawn immediately at the point where the first dropship comes in. You DON'T have to start at the beginning of the mission (which then adds another 2 minutes of time) Do it right, it's immediate. Then wipe out the first dropship, and then as said above, wipe out the second drop shit. With the resupply codes, it's a couple hundred glimmer plus every few minutes. Plus all the engrams and other additional glimmer perks.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 21, 2015 14:38:57 GMT -5
so long as you run up and kill the 3 fallen, you won't (or at least I never did) had a problem that they didn't pop.
The only problem with the 3 musketeers is that if someone else wants to get in on the action, they can screw up the respawns because it is on patrol and no on a mission.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 21, 2015 14:45:58 GMT -5
so long as you run up and kill the 3 fallen, you won't (or at least I never did) had a problem that they didn't pop. The only problem with the 3 musketeers is that if someone else wants to get in on the action, they can screw up the respawns because it is on patrol and no on a mission. Sometimes the top three monsters don't spawn in. After five or six cycles, I've found this to be the case. And yes, it's very common for someone else to show up and screw things up. That never happens on the EZ. Another thing. You get to kill more sh1t on the EZ. If you are stacking bounties, (100 headshots, 30 melee kills, Super kills, etc..), EZ offers more kills per second. |
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 21, 2015 14:56:34 GMT -5
I've always negated that by looping around the big stone they hide around. So even if they aren't there, the Hive will still respawn
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 21, 2015 15:18:22 GMT -5
FWIW, if you're doing Exclusion Zone right you should be getting ~450 glimmer every run, not including the network keys that drop frequently. Each run should take 90 seconds max and 60 seconds or less if you have it down to a science. You'll easily cap your glimmer in an hour there, with plenty of network keys to spare.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 21, 2015 15:25:12 GMT -5
FWIW, if you're doing Exclusion Zone right you should be getting ~450 glimmer every run, not including the network keys that drop frequently. Each run should take 90 seconds max and 60 seconds or less if you have it down to a science. You'll easily cap your glimmer in an hour there, with plenty of network keys to spare. I just made up my 'couple hundred glimmer every few minutes'. Threw a number up. I couldn't remember the exact numbers. That sounds about right, what you said. I did it this morning, went from like 1,000 to 9,000 in twenty minutes. |
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 21, 2015 17:57:18 GMT -5
As has been said, yes, Exclusion Zone is far better. You need to make sure heroic is on. With Voidwalker, I'd say that runs should be even shorter than hebbnh says - 60 seconds max. You sprint out, get to that spot on the right, turn back and shoot a bunch of guys that you ran past until the majors move to the spot where you drop your Nova Bomb, hit them with the Nova Bomb, and then kill remaining majors as fast as possible with no regard for your safety until either you die or there are no majors left. Continuing to kill any red enemies at that point is counterproductive, it actually reduces your rate of glimmer earned per minute. Unfortunately, Voidwalker doesn't have any grenades all that useful for killing yourself (if not running Voidwalker, find a grenade that'll kill you and throw it at your feet). Your best bet for a quick death is to use a launcher with Surplus (more heavy ammo drops) and use it to either take out the last enemy you want to kill from a very close distance, or test the durability of your leg armor. markopolo Remind me and I'll show you how to run it next time you're on. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 21, 2015 18:02:02 GMT -5
What about just being at point blank range when you use your super? That should do a ton of self damage, then you can kill a few more while they chip away at your health. I don't know how much self damage the grenades do, they definitely can hurt you though, even the AoE ones have an initial burst that hurts you. Could at least help keep you from starting regen. Rockets are a sure thing, though. I should know from my multiple suicides in VoG. ;3
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 21, 2015 18:06:47 GMT -5
Being at point blank when using your super means that one enemy is going to absorb most of the super, you won't get nearly as many kills from it, and you'll either have to take longer clearing the rest of the majors or settle for less glimmer per run. Running around without regard for safety generally does the trick. You can also get killed by fire from the ship.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jan 21, 2015 18:08:24 GMT -5
I see. Haven't really tried it, myself, since I generally run sunbro. ;3
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 21, 2015 18:11:56 GMT -5
Me too, but Radiance isn't too useful when the objective is to die.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 21, 2015 23:26:43 GMT -5
Heb's numbers are the most accurate i have seen. I just measured myself over two ten minute sequences, to test it out.
I averaged around 385 glimmer per minute, both cycles. Not including network keys, at which i got 12 in the 20 minutes i did this. Not sure what my average length of cycle was, but probably under a minute. 50 seconds or so? This was due to me dying to fast a number of times. If i wasn't set up with a super or grenades, i'll just kill myself quickly. When i did get a full cycle in, the few times i checked it was around 1:15 or so.
So about 7,700 glimmer in the twenty minutes i did it. After i cashed in the network keys, that added another 2,400 glimmer. So all told, 10,100 glimmer in 20 minutes. That comes out to 505 glimmer per minute.
Edit. Also should add in the 12 pieces of equipment and guns i broke down, from getting engrams. That adds a couple hundred more glimmer onto the above total.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 22, 2015 9:58:50 GMT -5
markopolo Remind me and I'll show you how to run it next time you're on. I'm maxxed again, but we'll see after Xur and running some stuff. |
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