Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 26, 2015 1:16:39 GMT -5
Bungie/Activision whatever. Mistakes have been made with Destiny. Disappointments were had. Expectations were not met. Destiny was my first run in with Bungie and right off the bat I thought "huh, Gearbox did it better." Yet...I have nothing but praise for HoW. Its been almost a week now with HoW and I am really impressed by this DLC. Now, I was originally very disappointed that there was no raid. I have many friends who said they would not be coming back because of that reason exclusively (yet for reasons I will mention...most of them have come back). These are friends that are familiar with the Borderlands-ey/Diablo-ey system, the very same system that Destiny was sold as pre-beta. No similar system? Disappointment. Raids were seen as the ONE redeeming quality that Destiny had (I wrote a thread about this notion a while ago). No raid? No game. Now... I think Bungie did something exceedingly smart here. They didn't play into expectations. Instead, they righted past wrongs. They put it behind a paywall that other games (cough...Titanfall...cough) might fix for free, but they fixed them nonetheless and in a way that I'm happy I spent some money on it because of the content put forth. I'll list a few of my past complaints and the way that Bungie fixed them. I'll start off easy... The story kinda sucked. In my opinion, HoW's story is good. Like...really good...for an FPS. The acting is solid. The awoken lady is super enthusiastic and the house of judgment guy's voicework is pure awesome. "defuse the booombs. OOOOOOOR. Die." They are still playing with the grimore cards and that stuff really should be made a part of the game (even throw them on the screen during loading times ala Skyrim). I'm expecting more from now on. I wanted transmogrification so I could look different beyond mere shader. They added etheric light so I could be a warlock unicorn or a hunter with pokeballs on his knees. Solid. I wanted a way to grind for something rewarding if I wanted to put more time into the game than someone else.: This was a major complaint I had with the game early on, though I came to understand it. Bungie doesn't want players with more time to get ahead. The minority would be worlds ahead and the major would be behind...and no one likes being behind. If Bungie wants to play smart, they play to the majority. This is why we had weekly limits. This is why we STILL have weekly limits. However, they added "key farming" to the game. You get this key from that enemy and you get that loot. This really interested me. Many of my friends would sit at skywatch and wait for wolves while doing something important IRL. This also introduced a sort of sparrow race that I found surprisingly enjoyable. The mystery of what they keys did was also pretty solid...which leads me to my next point... I needed better, more diverse rewards. IMO this is the best part. We got reforging. We got PoE armor that rolls differently and supports you against different types of enemies. We got an infusion of AWESOME new exotic armor. We got new weapon perks. We got varying elements on guns. This is Destiny playing its flawed loot system to its strengths. Its no Borderlands loot system though...and things still need improving. I want to be able to fight enemy X and have a better change of receiving exotic Y as a reward. However, increasing the loot pool is a step in the right direction. PvP Kind sucks compared to other games.Crucible always felt like it lacked this "je ne sais quoi." Iron banner could be cool, but it was always a slog to get through. I want to rewind to a younger Dumien for a minute. A while ago I wrote a rather lengthy post about an old game that died a tragic death. That game was one of my favorites. It did alot wrong and but it did alot right too. The main thing it did right was host a weekend event called "gunslinger" that required players to win 5-7 games in a row to receive the top prizes. You lose? You are out. Back to the beginning with you. The rewards for 5-7 were highly sought after and valued highly in the player market. It was totally awesome and all sorts of frustrating. The adrenaline was real. And that was an online children's card game. This was a mediocre PvP that somehow is now elevated. Trials of Osiris is like...the best thing Destiny has done in my past memory. I'm not going to spout some elitist nonsense like redditites will do. I'm also not going to take the opposing redditite approach and say that they should make getting to the Lighthouse any easier. What I will say is that Destiny desperately needed a truly difficult challenge that every player could at the very least... respect. No way to cheese this. No pushing the other players off a ledge or disconnecting to make them kneel in place. No spots where the enemies can't shoot you but you can shoot them. You just need to get a group of friends and practice, practice, practice. Its not on all the time so the people who enjoy it can look forward to it. Its there just enough of the time so you can grab a team together and work on strategies. It is always the same map so you can get exceptionally good at said strategies. Now, they can improve this even further. They can add side switches at every round or at the half. The map seems to ever so slightly favor the team spawning outside. However, the indoor team has the objective spawn when time is up. I think that is the give/take balance. The rewards in Osiris are insane. Getting to the Lighthouse feels incredible. It actually felt so incredible that I instantly took a screenshot of the cutscene they give you and put it as my wallpaper. Lots to explore here. And that walkway to the chest? You feel badass. They also give you a not-too-OP primary with a random damage type. These are crucible-centric weapons and not the best for PvE, but they feel pretty good. They also don't simply outdo the PvP weapons you might already have. The real reward is the extra etheric light. Now for two problems I didn't have but other people did...that got fixed. Raids are now more accessible than ever. My friend Speedy stopped playing destiny since VoG. A friend of his got him to play again and with vanguard/crucible marks alone, he got to level 32 and quickly level 33. Wow. Imagine this for a new player who might want to experience VoG. House of wolves provides you with all the tools. (spoilers) Hell they even give you a mini tutorial in that one mission (/spoilers). The PoE 28 matchmaking and free keys you get via story will get new players some serviceable weapons to take on the two raids. People needed friends to get into raiding. This might seem like a big "duh" but this is apparently a problem people were having (by scanning the reddits). What do you do if you don't have friends and you are anti social? Well PoE has matchmaking for 28. This essentially functions as a gateway drug into the rest of the expansion. You get your chances at keys. You get your chance at a rerollable queen's weapon. You get your exotic chance for the week. You get to play with two people who share you interests. Friends will be made. Players will want to do more than 28. Gotta get those armor cores. Gonna have to make that leap. Bungie so smart. Finally, A problem I didn't even know I had. It was an unknown unknown. Prison of Elders is too good. Bungie figured out how to make a procedurally generated raid. Yup. I've already said why i like it in another thread...but yeah. Solid. Level 35 is no joke. I look forward to see what people will do when Skolas isn't on solar burn. Either way...its gonna take some teamwork. Year 2's raids are going to have to put some better pants on.
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Post by iw5000 on May 26, 2015 7:14:07 GMT -5
At the risk of annoying people on this board, who will say i am just complaining to complain....
...regarding the story. You say this, "HoW's story is good. Like...really good...for an FPS".
I have to ask, and i don't mean to be dismissive. What did i miss? I did the story with one of my characters, or at least the play through missions that enable one to do the Lv 28 PoE. I'm pretty sure that was the end. And nothing really happened. There really wasn't a story. I don't recall any long cut scenes telling a plot. There wasn't any movie type of things to explain plot lines. Was i supposed to do something more? Different? All i recall is the tower place with the two characters, that gave you missions. But both missions were kind of stale, and very easy. There was also a voice character who was supposed to be a wolf, who kind of grumbled a bit (but was a bit hard to understand) Again, not trying to hate for just hating purposes, ....but I truly and honestly couldn't tell you a single thing about a story with HoW. All i really know is from what i read online in the pre-release promotional material. The wolves who were controlled by the Awoken lady rebelled. She wants Guardians to help her put them back in their wolf cages. What more is there?
If people find my questions to be to much hating, then please... just ignore them. I'm not trying to piss on anyone's Wheaties. Just trying to understand if i missed some part of the game that i was supposed to play. Missed a download? Missed a side quest? Skipped a cut scene? I had to have missed something, because what i saw, was lame.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 26, 2015 8:37:10 GMT -5
At the risk of annoying people on this board, who will say i am just complaining to complain.... ...regarding the story. You say this, " HoW's story is good. Like...really good...for an FPS".I have to ask, and i don't mean to be dismissive. What did i miss? I did the story with one of my characters, or at least the play through missions that enable one to do the Lv 28 PoE. I'm pretty sure that was the end. And nothing really happened. There really wasn't a story. I don't recall any long cut scenes telling a plot. There wasn't any movie type of things to explain plot lines. Was i supposed to do something more? Different? All i recall is the tower place with the two characters, that gave you missions. But both missions were kind of stale, and very easy. There was also a voice character who was supposed to be a wolf, who kind of grumbled a bit (but was a bit hard to understand) Again, not trying to hate for just hating purposes, ....but I truly and honestly couldn't tell you a single thing about a story with HoW. All i really know is from what i read online in the pre-release promotional material. The wolves who were controlled by the Awoken lady rebelled. She wants Guardians to help her put them back in their wolf cages. What more is there? If people find my questions to be to much hating, then please... just ignore them. I'm not trying to piss on anyone's Wheaties. Just trying to understand if i missed some part of the game that i was supposed to play. Missed a download? Missed a side quest? Skipped a cut scene? I had to have missed something, because what i saw, was lame. Skolas believes he's some "Kell of Kells" dude prophesized to bring the Fallen back to prevalence or something. After the Wolves betray the Queen, he tries to take over all the other Fallen houses (Winter, Kings, etc) to expand his reach. We're trying to make sure that doesn't happen. In the meantime, he breaks into the VoG and tries to steal/utilize Vex technology for his own means. In the last mission, you have Fallen teleporting around like the Vex do, so whatever his plan was kind of worked, but then we capture him. At some point (possibly only in Grimoire cards, I can't recall) it's revealed that the Fallen suffered a collapse similar to the one humanity is supposedly currently enduring. That's what Skolas is trying to lead the Fallen back from. There's a ton more detail in the Grimoire, which Dumien alluded to. It's unfortunate that so much is hidden there, because if you go and try to piece some of the stuff together there's the makings of a very intriguing story. Many intriguing stories, actually.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 26, 2015 8:54:57 GMT -5
There's a ton more detail in the Grimoire, which Dumien alluded to. It's unfortunate that so much is hidden there, because if you go and try to piece some of the stuff together there's the makings of a very intriguing story. Many intriguing stories, actually. That has always been the issue. I was hoping to see the House of Kings on our side to fight the House of Wolves judging what Variks says in one of the missions but nope (the one where Variks says Skolas will meet his match if he sets foot in the House of Kings). We have to be awesome heroes who are killing machines left right and centre, which is getting tiresome of a general theme of shooters. And there's the Grimoire there to suggest far more interesting paths the campaign can take.
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Post by iw5000 on May 26, 2015 9:23:27 GMT -5
Well, Dumien has to be backfilling in the Grimiore cards information onto his playing, to come up with that type of excitement for the story. What you said Heb (of the story) I don't know how anyone could have possibly gotten all that detail from just playing a few story missions with the DLC. There wasn't that much info. And what was said, was almost, kind of, incomprehensible and garbled.
Maybe I should read the Grimoire cards. Maybe that's the key. But being totally honest here, I haven't a clue as to where to even find them. Website? On XBL? In the game? But to me, that just doesn't hold a lot of interest.
Anyways. Not a huge deal. I don't play this game for the story. If I want a good story, i'll read a book or watch a show.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 26, 2015 9:27:44 GMT -5
PvP Kind sucks compared to other games.Crucible always felt like it lacked this "je ne sais quoi." Iron banner could be cool, but it was always a slog to get through. I want to rewind to a younger Dumien for a minute. A while ago I wrote a rather lengthy post about an old game that died a tragic death. That game was one of my favorites. It did alot wrong and but it did alot right too. The main thing it did right was host a weekend event called "gunslinger" that required players to win 5-7 games in a row to receive the top prizes. You lose? You are out. Back to the beginning with you. The rewards for 5-7 were highly sought after and valued highly in the player market. It was totally awesome and all sorts of frustrating. The adrenaline was real. And that was an online children's card game. This was a mediocre PvP that somehow is now elevated. Trials of Osiris is like...the best thing Destiny has done in my past memory. I'm not going to spout some elitist nonsense like redditites will do. I'm also not going to take the opposing redditite approach and say that they should make getting to the Lighthouse any easier. What I will say is that Destiny desperately needed a truly difficult challenge that every player could at the very least... respect. No way to cheese this. No pushing the other players off a ledge or disconnecting to make them kneel in place. No spots where the enemies can't shoot you but you can shoot them. You just need to get a group of friends and practice, practice, practice. Its not on all the time so the people who enjoy it can look forward to it. Its there just enough of the time so you can grab a team together and work on strategies. It is always the same map so you can get exceptionally good at said strategies. Now, they can improve this even further. They can add side switches at every round or at the half. The map seems to ever so slightly favor the team spawning outside. However, the indoor team has the objective spawn when time is up. I think that is the give/take balance. The rewards in Osiris are insane. Getting to the Lighthouse feels incredible. It actually felt so incredible that I instantly took a screenshot of the cutscene they give you and put it as my wallpaper. Lots to explore here. And that walkway to the chest? You feel badass. They also give you a not-too-OP primary with a random damage type. These are crucible-centric weapons and not the best for PvE, but they feel pretty good. They also don't simply outdo the PvP weapons you might already have. The real reward is the extra etheric light. Could not agree more. Trials is fantastic. THebb, Beav, and I started out 2-2 I think (with one loss forgiven and one free win due to the boons), then got our crap together and facerolled 5 teams in a row 5-1 or 5-2. The last game to cash out our ticket with 9 wins, we were up 4-1 I think, and due to some tactical errors and over-aggressive play thinking we had the game won, we let the other team tie us up at 4-4, before we closed out the final round with a win. That last round was the most adrenaline-filled thing I've done in Destiny since beating Atheon for the very first time, and that round didn't even matter! We were already shut out of the Lighthouse and were already guaranteed the gold tier package regardless. I can't imagine a game like that while needing that win to get to the Lighthouse, it'd just amp things up even more. Cashing out a 9-1 ticket on our first Trials attempt was a great feeling. I was worried about even making it to five wins for the new armor, and thinking I might not ever see the Lighthouse. Well, expectations have officially been raised LOL. iw5000: If you're looking for a competitive, strategy-based PvP mode, this is it. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Just make sure you bring your Thorn/Red Death/The Last Word, Felwinter's or a good sniper, and a rocket launcher with tracking and/or proximity detonation (preferably, at least). This is easily the best PvP experience I've had to date.
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Post by beavenge on May 26, 2015 11:15:56 GMT -5
Well, Dumien has to be backfilling in the Grimiore cards information onto his playing, to come up with that type of excitement for the story. What you said Heb (of the story) I don't know how anyone could have possibly gotten all that detail from just playing a few story missions with the DLC. There wasn't that much info. And what was said, was almost, kind of, incomprehensible and garbled. Maybe I should read the Grimoire cards. Maybe that's the key. But being totally honest here, I haven't a clue as to where to even find them. Website? On XBL? In the game? But to me, that just doesn't hold a lot of interest. Anyways. Not a huge deal. I don't play this game for the story. If I want a good story, i'll read a book or watch a show. Most of what Dumien + Hebbnh were talking about was from the mission loading screen and mid-mission chatter, completing the new strike, Prison of Elders, along with interacting with NPCs at the Reef. I paid a bit more attention the 2nd time around with the story missions, and not watching TV or listening to music on the side helped (same?). Not everyone has time for that, though. The Grimoire cards aren't totally necessary, but good supplemental background info. If you only want to see what you've collected, log onto your Bungie.net account and there's a nifty Grimoire card section for your guardians. If you want to see a list of ALL the cards, there's destinygamewiki.com/wiki/Grimoire_Cards along with a lot of other sites. Bungie really needs to make some way of accessing those in game, though. I'm personally just glad we know why we're shooting the thing besides "It's bad, mmm'kay?"
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 26, 2015 11:43:46 GMT -5
Actually the part about how the Fallen had their own collapse was the only bit about the HoW story that was from the Grimoire. All the rest was there, mostly told to you over the coms by Variks either during the loading or mid mission. It's basically just voice over narration on top of the missions, although it does actually lend something to them and tell you what the Wolves are doing in each of the locations you're going to. You do have to listen to the NPC's to follow it. I'm not gonna talk it up like the best story ever. I was a bit disappointed as well that we didn't ever get in a situation where we were fighting the Wolves alongside Kings. I think that would have been awesome, especially they way they built up the Kings and suggested they were more of a threat. It would have been awesome to fight off the Wolves side by side only to have them turn on you and give you a hell of a fight. Maybe for a change you actually just fight your way out and retreat from the Kings instead of always being death incarnate to everything you come across. I think that could have setup a great storyline for later, having the Kings become a huge threat. But... oh well... Riding into VoG and having to fight Wolves in there was kinda cool and then at the top of the tower I did think it was really cool that the Wolves did get Vex technology and Skolas was bringing Wolves through time and space to fight for him.
HoW definitely has a story. I don't know if it's that great, but it's there. I think that's because it's not our story it's Skolas's. He has a story. We on the other hand are once again sent off to do all the work even though we're surrounded by other capable fighters. The Reef should have their own army, hell their own fleet, from the looks of the. But the most effort the Queen musters is to have one Guardian go do all the work with a couple of her people to direct them. I understand that Bungie keeps us nameless nearly silent protagonists so it's easier for us to make the character our own. But there's a price for that. I didn't have a problem with it in Halo: Reach. But in Reach you weren't on your own going solo. You had a whole team behind you. They were stripped away bit by bit, but all the reasons for that were revealed in the story.
In Destiny you never ever ever team up with NPC's... Sometimes you team up with other guardians who are other players, but they are as mute as you. The worlds feel dead and lonely populated with nothing but enemies and other mute characterless warriors fighting them with little purpose. Sometimes their goals coincide with yours, sometimes they don't. Yet whenever the security of the whole city and the last of humanity is on the line it's always you alone who answer the call. Despite this when you go to the Tower or the Reef you see a small but thriving society complete with it's own military... that they never ever use to help you.
All in all the game is just really awkward. It wants to draw you in and make you feel like there's this whole larger world, but the logic doesn't fit. It's more like we're only playing glimpses of that world. Like the game is only the legend and the myth of the Guardians and we're reliving it in some shallow way.
Still... I found it more interesting than Eris's droning and at least this time the story did explain what all the enemies were doing in all those locations.
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Post by iw5000 on May 26, 2015 12:13:48 GMT -5
I honestly don't remember what Eris's role in anything was. I know who she is in the tower, but that's about it. Same deal with the HoW. I'm not even sure who the wolf is, that is doing the grumbling. Is this the character in the tower?
And yes, I guess this is partly may fault for not listening closely to whatever is being passed on to me. Maybe on my last story run i'll listen closer, but it's not really going to matter. I personally, just my opinion, found this story to be lame. There wasn't much there. And also agree with most of what Mannon said above. I guess it's one of those things. If you want the story to be great, you will find reasons to love it.
To put it out there again, ...this has no real baring on my enjoyment of the game. It's a non-issue. But if asked what I think about the story, in isolation ....., I got to give the main game and DLC's a fail. It's just weak. Especially when compared to other games like Halo, GTAV, Last of Us, etc..Destiny is kind of a mess. IMHO, a lot of untapped potential there. But what do I know, perhaps it's difficult to incorporate all the above ideas to make the plot fit better with the gaming. It really might not be possible in this type of FPSer game.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 26, 2015 12:29:46 GMT -5
I honestly don't remember what Eris's role in anything was. I know who she is in the tower, but that's about it. Same deal with the HoW. I'm not even sure who the wolf is, that is doing the grumbling. Is this the character in the tower? And yes, I guess this is partly may fault for not listening closely to whatever is being passed on to me. Maybe on my last story run i'll listen closer, but it's not really going to matter. I personally, just my opinion, found this story to be lame. And also agree with most of what Mannon said above. I guess it's one of those things. If you want the story to be great, you will find reasons to love it. To put it out there again, ...this has no real baring on my enjoyment of the game. It's a non-issue. But if asked what I think about the story, in isolation ....., I got to give the main game and DLC's a fail. It's just weak. Especially when compared to other games like Halo, GTAV, Last of Us, etc..Destiny is kind of a mess. IMHO, a lot of untapped potential there. But what do I know, perhaps it's difficult to incorporate all the above ideas to make the plot fit better with the gaming. It really might not be possible in this type of FPSer game. The wolf doing the grumbling is Variks. He's the vendor with the House of Judgement in the Reef, where you can trade armor and weapon cores from PoE for gear, buy new shaders, etc. Did you find the story lame after our explanation, or did you think it was lame because you didn't catch everything that was going on at the time during the missions? If the former, fair enough. If the latter, I'm not sure that's fair, but as you say it's not a big deal. Either way it could have probably been better than it was, but I do think it's a step up from what we've seen so far. There really is a ton of interesting stuff in the Grimoire if you take the time to look into it. You can get to it easily from the Destiny app. I don't know if they'll be able to add more of that stuff into the game, but I hope they're able to because it does help explain a lot of stuff in a deeper way that, over time, might rival some of the games you mentioned. We'll see.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 26, 2015 12:30:51 GMT -5
Well... if you don't pay attention to the story line, and then compare Destiny's story line to hall of fame franchises like GTA and Halo... I can understand why the story is not your cup of tea...
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 26, 2015 12:39:13 GMT -5
I think it's still possible to tell a good story in this kind of an FPS. One of the things hurting Destiny the most is the silent protagonist. Then again Half-Life did that, but still managed a good story. That kind of thing might be a bit more difficult in a game with Destiny's formula, but I think there are ways.
I think Bungie has fallen into a trap, though. They have trapped themselves into a largely formulaic combat sandbox where the rules they have written for themselves seem to prevent them from doing anything really engaging. They give us a maximum of freedom and minimize opportunities for bad NPC's to get in the way, but that also holds us back. Yes, every guardian we see out there is another player, and in one way that's really cool. But it also means that no guardians anywhere, ever, have anything to do with the plot unless we go back to the tower and even then only to not tell us about the great battle.
We never have an opportunity to actually save anything or work with anyone, we just go kill things. They barely even talk to us on the coms while we're doing it. Cortana was nothing but a voice in our heads 95% of the time in Halo, but she had WAY more character and influence. There are so many things they could do to make this feel like a more dynamic setting, but they won't do it.
At least in HoW they actually do talk to us over coms a bit and they are actually telling us things that have something to do with what we're doing. Eris talked too, but was mostly just doing her Eor impression. She always makes me chuckle when I go back to the tower and hear her droning on. She's so one dimensional! That's the point with her, I get it. But still. The extent to which Destiny kept her on target with that one thing amuses me. Every single line she says has that droopy dog kinda sadness to it.
Now what would have been cool is if the Queen sent us out with the Crows. When you start one of the missions you'd see their ship in orbit with you and when you drop down they fly over. Even if Bungie wanted to keep all your fighting solo the Crows could drop down and go after a secondary target. Maybe in one stretch they support you from their ship, flying overhead taking out enemies while you try to make it across a huge battlefield. Not kill everything in it, just get across it. Then a squad of Crows gets in trouble and you gotta go save them... ect... Just think back to all the stuff in Halo. Why has Bungie forgotten everything they did in Halo? Yes I know they've committed to this co-op everywhere with converging in public areas model, and that does put some limits on it, but I still think there's plenty they could do. Hell just look at the first mission. In that mission you actually do go into the Divide in a personal instance just for you, not a public instance of it. They have the technology for that, to even use the public spaces for anything they want to. They should do that more.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 26, 2015 12:43:12 GMT -5
Not putting the grimoir in game just feels lazy to me. It's nothing but text. What's so hard about that? The speaker's area looks kinda like a library, put a console in there we can access to activate a UI that shows us the grimoir we've unlocked. Or just be really lazy and slap it in the settings menu. I don't care. It should be in game.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 26, 2015 12:45:36 GMT -5
I think that Destiny is a game that's going to be a decade long franchise that is pacing themselves and all of the "wouldn't it be cool if..." stuff will be revealed in later games/dlcs.
wanting everything now defeats the purpose of it later
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wings
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Post by wings on May 26, 2015 12:46:25 GMT -5
Well... if you don't pay attention to the story line, and then compare Destiny's story line to hall of fame franchises like GTA and Halo... I can understand why the story is not your cup of tea... Or Mass Effect too.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 26, 2015 12:49:33 GMT -5
Not putting the grimoir in game just feels lazy to me. It's nothing but text. What's so hard about that? The speaker's area looks kinda like a library, put a console in there we can access to activate a UI that shows us the grimoir we've unlocked. Or just be really lazy and slap it in the settings menu. I don't care. It should be in game. IMHO If they can't give us more vault space... (or something else that is universally desired) ... I highly doubt they'll make an area of the game where they have to code in what each individualized player has unlocked. It'd be nice, but it's probably not worth the time and effort... hell, I'd sooner they code Eva Levante to give us customizable shaders before making the speakers area an accessible library Personally, grimore is nice and I enjoy looking at it offline... but when I'm gaming, I'm gaming... I'm unlocking grimoire cards, not reading them
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 26, 2015 13:00:35 GMT -5
Bungie could learn a lot from Bioware. They have been doing games with metric tons of story yet with player created characters that they couldn't design around, and have been doing that for decades. What Bungie has done feels half-assed in a way. They give us character customization, but barely. We get to decide what our faces look like, and then hide them behind helmets for 99% of the game. We do get shaders, but they don't apply to most exotics, and there aren't enough of them, and they apply to our entire outfit. At least we finally can pick our favorite legendary gear to ascend now, although most will just ascend what they have or min/max stats and thus still not be able to make any sort of personal choices there. There are the class armor items, but unless you're a Hunter they are pretty lame and there aren't very many of them. The closest we can come to customizing our weapons is picking perks which might change the sights on them. We can't even name our characters. Ultimately the only choices you can make to customize your character that really make much of a difference are picking your gender and your shader.
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markopolo
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Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
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Post by markopolo on May 26, 2015 13:12:46 GMT -5
Meh....
character creation is what.. 10 minutes out of your entire playing time? Shaders apply to all exotics that aren't chest I love my warlock class items... the green flaming one from Eris is still my fave to date... I just wish they did something attribute wise Naming my characters? Does that really matter?
I mean... sure, it'd be nice to do all of these things... but I'd ditch them in heartbeat for +5 more vault space on everything and/or a customizable shader, sparrow, or jumpship creator.
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Post by iw5000 on May 26, 2015 13:15:58 GMT -5
I think that Destiny is a game that's going to be a decade long franchise that is pacing themselves and all of the "wouldn't it be cool if..." stuff will be revealed in later games/dlcs. wanting everything now defeats the purpose of it later Uh, imho no. Bungie isn't doing some clever big secret plot reveal to be announced later in some M Night Shalayhan type plot twist reveal, like that's the reason for their story failures. No, no and no. Please, that's insulting to even pass that off on here. Any lack of interesting plot or story, or failure to deliver, is attributable to a whole host of other reasons, none of which involve that. I think you are reaching a bit, to try and pin the blame on me, that everything is just due to me 'not paying attention'. Was I not paying attention when the game came out too? When Crota dropped? Possibly, but those two segments were universally panned and made fun of by the critics too (in regards to plot delivery) As far as HoW? Like I admitted after reading some people's thoughts, maybe I should have paid more attention. But come on, there wasn't that much information on the story dropped, at least I remember. And passing off a mumbling unintelligible Yoda sounding wolf as the mechanism for plot telling, WHILE I am shooting and exploding shit, is kind of weak. That's not really good delivery, especially when you consider people like me are trying to rush through it, as well as how other great games have also handled plot mechanics/delivery too.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 26, 2015 14:18:33 GMT -5
All of the questions of plot asked in posts above, were explained in game. By your own admission, you didn't listen closely to the story line. I don't know what else to say other than that.
As for the story line... listen, I'm not going to suggest it's this epic, sweeping, grandiose story that is original and never been done before and is perfect in every which way shape or form. What I am suggesting, as I had posted, is that Destiny's story line will be revealed over an extended time and not just in 1 game and a bunch of DLC's.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 26, 2015 15:02:24 GMT -5
The HoW story is a step in the right direction. The fact that there is a grimore card about the disciples of osiris and you can find the dead bodies in the secret room of the lighthouse gives me that dark souls vibe (Bungie originally said they were inspired by dark souls and even included easter eggs pertaining to that series). This is the first time I got that vibe here. Bungie is finally paying attention to the potential of their lore.
Dude...when I saw the trailer...and the fallen....in the vault...
I got hyped.
Even though that mission was short I still think it was awesome and really elevated the final mission where skolas fuses the wolves with the vex tech.
Edit: I should also do a post where I talk about why the new exotics (weapons and armor) are a step/leap in the right direction. Bungie seems to be paying attention to the niches that need to be filled in order to have a cohesive PvE experience.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 26, 2015 15:06:11 GMT -5
Agreed
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Post by iw5000 on May 26, 2015 15:06:18 GMT -5
All of the questions of plot asked in posts above, were explained in game. By your own admission, you didn't listen closely to the story line. I don't know what else to say other than that. As for the story line... listen, I'm not going to suggest it's this epic, sweeping, grandiose story that is original and never been done before and is perfect in every which way shape or form. What I am suggesting, as I had posted, is that Destiny's story line will be revealed over an extended time and not just in 1 game and a bunch of DLC's. 1. 'How' you tell a story now (in the present), ...and how the details of the story ultimately end up later, are two separate things. Bungie can release the world's best book five years from now explaining every single Destiny plot detail in a rich GRRM'esque storytelling tone, but that's not going to make how the plot was delivered in this game (this year, 'now') suddenly be better. 2. Yes, 'by my own admission', I didn't listen closely. But you know what? As I just said, 'how' you tell a story is huge. And having some garbled, sort of unintelligible Yoda sounding wolf spit out supposed plot details while I am blowing up video game stuff in a mission, ...isn't exactly very good storytelling. IMHO, that format kind of sucks. Anyone who tries to convince me that doing a few story missions while this wolf characters spit out some background details...is on the same level as other great video game plot/stories, is nuts. Not even remotely close. And not even remotely close to even other past mediocre video game story lines. That crappy Walking Dead video game a few years ago, it's story line got me MUCH more involved than anything Destiny has done. Listen, not worth debating. As I said, the whole plot/story stuff is meaningless to me. I just found it wanting and kind of lame.....so I tossed in my two cents. And debating this with you, is pointless as you'll defend Bungie to death on everything. We are all different. Different strokes, for different folks.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 26, 2015 15:06:51 GMT -5
The Story is no halo, but 10x better than eris. I think they want to pass a vibe that very few people actually know the story. There are entities who are keeping it from us. If you read the grimore and reddit about the grimore, I really start to appreciate it. We still don't know if the traveler is the good guy, if the speaker is actually a good guy, what the traveler is, if we are actually the good guys, why those 4 races all don't like us, and last but not least, wheither we will simply be discarded by the traveler if it is done with us (like what seemed to have happened to the fallen).
I believe this is the vibe they are trying to give to the "story". You gotta look it up and theories for yourself. There is no truth out there (yet) it is all vage hints. And while I would enjoy a clear story, I don't think they will really change that. They will never explain everything, and I start to see why. There are complete message boards having great lengthy discussions about all those topics. Which some ppl enjoy. It also is very handy if you plan to get a game going for several itterations. As almost nothing is set in stone atm
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Post by iw5000 on May 26, 2015 15:13:22 GMT -5
The Story is no halo, but 10x better than eris. I think they want to pass a vibe that very few people actually know the story. There are entities who are keeping it from us. If you read the grimore and reddit about the grimore, I really start to appreciate it. We still don't know if the traveler is the good guy, if the speaker is actually a good guy, what the traveler is, if we are actually the good guys, why those 4 races all don't like us, and last but not least, wheither we will simply be discarded by the traveler if it is done with us (like what seemed to have happened to the fallen). I believe this is the vibe they are trying to give to the "story". You gotta look it up and theories for yourself. There is no truth out there (yet) it is all vage hints. And while I would enjoy a clear story, I don't think they will really change that. They will never explain everything, and I start to see why. There are complete message boards having great lengthy discussions about all those topics. Which some ppl enjoy. It also is very handy if you plan to get a game going for several itterations. As almost nothing is set in stone atm I hear what you are saying, but why would I want to invest another dozen or more hours of my time reading up on outside source material for the story/plot of the game....when Bungie obviously didn't even think enough of the plot when releasing the game. I saw all the mistakes and goofs with it. They are all over the place, and have nothing do with 'saving things' to surprise us M Night Shalayhan style later. It was mostly all due to cost cutting, some key people leaving, laziness with resources and a few other things. (Grimore cards were a cheap way to cover their mistakes) I go and spend time doing that, writing up tons of ideas and theories on the plot, and surprise twists, ...just comes across as one big troll job by Bungie. They didn't put any effort into this originally, why should I do it for them?
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 26, 2015 15:23:09 GMT -5
It is not really for me either, I have to comute allot lately, that is the only reason I have been reading up up on it. But I don't think it is all about laziness and budget. I think they did it (partially) deliberate. I am not trying to make excuses, the story telling is not that good, but I think that is what they were aiming for (in the end).
I actually do prefer story during missions over cutscenes though, for the same reason. I play to shoot stuff, not to watch a video. Especially as every mission will be recycled again and again and again, I prefer this way of story telling.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on May 26, 2015 16:20:37 GMT -5
I see the Guardians as placeholders for European Colonialists. Going to different worlds, plundering the resources, and wiping out the native populations.
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