mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 18, 2015 13:01:44 GMT -5
I do want those things...
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 18, 2015 13:04:11 GMT -5
Class items means hunter cloak, warlock bond, or titan mark. It's not actual exotic armor, just a fancier cosmetic thing that's supposed to grant an XP bonus. I doubt you'd miss out on much from not having it. That's not to say I wouldn't want it, but I'm not paying an extra $40 for a few items and shaders that probably won't see much use anyway. I'd just stick with the regular Taken King download at $40 if nothing gets changed. I'm hoping Bungie will address that in their weekly update this afternoon to put some of the speculation to rest and get things straightened out.
I'd also expect Taken King to be a much larger expansion than either of the prior 2 DLCs. They've already confirmed new public events, new patrols, a new patrol area (Oryx's Hive Dreadnaught ship thing), new crucible modes, a new raid, multiple new strikes, multiple new story missions, new gear, etc. I think it'll skew much closer to the full release end of the spectrum than the DLC end. If that's true I have no issue with the $40 price point, I just think all the collectors edition bonus stuff should be included for that $40 instead of making it $80, because $80 is excessive to say the least.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 18, 2015 13:14:20 GMT -5
One thing I saw on reddit showed a titan with a titan mark that had stat modifiers... I might look it up to find the pick.
And I agree with Hebbnh... I think we'll get more for our 40 than what is being advertised. But I'm still annoyed at what hte kinderguardians are getting
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jun 18, 2015 13:15:04 GMT -5
Price point wise let's compare this with DLCs.
TDB + HoW ($40 or $35 if purchases together):
1 raid 2 strikes (3 for PS) 2 sets of story missions 6 Crucible maps (8 for PS) PoE ToO + various new gears;
Taken King ($40): 3 subclasses (this is the main attraction to me) 1 raid (tied as the main attraction to me, hopefully at or even above VoG quality) 1 new enemy type (looks like mutated version of the existing enemies, but still very good to have) 1-2 strikes 1 sets of story missions (most likely) unknown number of Crucible maps (at least 3, maybe 6) 2 Crucible game modes (which probably should have been offered for free) + various new gears
I would say the pricing is fair enough.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 18, 2015 13:22:39 GMT -5
That's good to know. I thought the item class thing was armor and stuf.
If I listed my priorities, it would be 1) new Raid, and 2) Subclasses, 3) Guns/Armors, 4) New enemies, 5) new strike types. That's what I would like on new stuff. But on old stuff, I want to be able to play with the new armors and weapons.
Crucible maps and new game modes aren't very high on my list. I can't control the maps and I hardly play most of the game modes as it is.
Are we getting a new raid? I thought we were with HoW, but we didn't. I didn't see that listed. As far as the new enemy types, the Forbes article said as of now, it really isn't new. It's just a reskinned something. Going by your list Witty, I'm not sure if there's that much more there, to justify even $40. But with that, that's just nitpicking over a few dollars.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 18, 2015 13:44:28 GMT -5
That's good to know. I thought the item class thing was armor and stuf. If I listed my priorities, it would be 1) new Raid, and 2) Subclasses, 3) Guns/Armors, 4) New enemies, 5) new strike types. That's what I would like on new stuff. But on old stuff, I want to be able to play with the new armors and weapons. Crucible maps and new game modes aren't very high on my list. I can't control the maps and I hardly play most of the game modes as it is. Are we getting a new raid? I thought we were with HoW, but we didn't. I didn't see that listed. As far as the new enemy types, the Forbes article said as of now, it really isn't new. It's just a reskinned something. Going by your list Witty, I'm not sure if there's that much more there, to justify even $40. But with that, that's just nitpicking over a few dollars. There's definitely a new raid. The Taken do appear to be reskins of existing enemies, but they have all new movements and attacks in addition to the appearance differences. So kind of half new or 3/4 new, I guess? The vidoc thing Bungie put out was fairly informative:
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wings
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Post by wings on Jun 18, 2015 14:03:32 GMT -5
Gears of War 4 is also scheduled to release at that time, but there are probably not much interest from bros here I will be. Shotgunners go rolling!
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Jun 18, 2015 14:20:52 GMT -5
One thing I saw on reddit showed a titan with a titan mark that had stat modifiers... I might look it up to find the pick. And I agree with Hebbnh... I think we'll get more for our 40 than what is being advertised. But I'm still annoyed at what hte kinderguardians are getting I'm glad, though, that they are trying to attract new players with this sort of relaunch. I can live with what's being given out, it's just that I'm not gonna spend the extra to get it.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 18, 2015 14:25:31 GMT -5
Agreed.... and even though I was half joking when I suggested it, I really can see Destiny doing microtransactions to give us those extra things.
Dance move pack - 2.99 Emotes pack - 2.99
I'm sure at the end of december, we'll get a thank you gift for playing destiny
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 18, 2015 14:27:25 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 18, 2015 15:52:40 GMT -5
The bungie developer with the handlebar 'stache....
...I wouldn't let him be near my kids.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 19, 2015 8:54:46 GMT -5
The bungie developer with the handlebar 'stache.... ...I wouldn't let him be near my kids. Dave samuel... the FX artist @ 3:50? He's the star of the show!!!
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wings
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Post by wings on Jun 19, 2015 9:45:11 GMT -5
Well the DLC went up from £28 to £40. I can get a new game for £40 so I might not get this DLC.
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bradman
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Post by bradman on Jun 20, 2015 10:13:27 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 22, 2015 9:07:49 GMT -5
Interesting article by Forbes. It kind of touches upon a few points I have made in the past. One of which, is Destiny's insistence on forcing players to keep grinding. And yes, they have taken steps to reduced this with HoW, but it's still there. And yes, that is part of the MM) (or whatever you call this type of game), the grind/loot cycle... but ... at some point, many first timers to this genre might get tired of it. At some point, it's no longer a challenge or even remotely fun to keep having the Charlie Brown/Lucy football thing keep occurring. Maybe fun for the Destiny developers who insist this is the only way to keep people playing, but imho, many people who aren't hard core MMO'ers (like me), will just say enough after so many times. And yes, these people who might leave can be told to " suck it up, tough sh1t, don't like it, don't play", which seems to be the attitude this board takes at times, but at some point, that might not work. Destiny won't exist to well if the numbers fall to low. You need players. The people who play 20 hours a week, owning every part of the game and are maxed out studs.....they will basically become ensnared in an example of bragging contest about being the tallest person at a little-person party. Yeah, who cares. So maybe it's Destiny that needs to adapt. That is one of the good points made by the article. Anyways, here's the article. "Destiny's 'The Taken King' Has To Bring Lapsed Players Back Into The Fold" www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/06/21/destinys-the-taken-king-has-to-bring-lapsed-players-back-into-the-fold/
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 22, 2015 9:43:50 GMT -5
Eh, my feelings on that are kind of mixed. He makes some decent points about needing to bring "lapsed" players back, but he's vastly overstating the grind/time needed to get from 20 to 32. It shouldn't take anywhere near a month to amass the marks you need to buy your way to 32, first of all. And that's assuming you buy every piece, and don't get anything from raids, rank up packages, RNG engram decryption, don't use any exotic armor, don't play Iron Banner, and so on. That's a stretch to say the least. We all know how CE gives out armor like candy for 5-10 minutes of effort, Iron Banner rank 3 is easily attainable playing an hour or two over a couple days, etc.
That being said I wouldn't have any problem with Bungie straight up gifting those "lapsed" players some armor and weapons to get them caught up either. I don't think it'd do all that much good though, because people that gave up on the game after a month or whatever the first time around probably aren't going to stick around for the long haul anyway, but it wouldn't hurt anything.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jun 22, 2015 9:57:22 GMT -5
The 80 dollar is destiny + TDB + HOW + TK. That is what you are paying 80 bucks for. This set ALSO contains a few bonuses. (three class items (=cosmetics) three dance moves and three shaders. it is not as if these 40 bucks are for those cosmetic bonuses only. Btw, all new class items get xp-boosts, not only the limited edition ones. Other players can buy the TK only for 40 bucks. That is the comparison. Will it be worth 40 bucks? I surely hope so, I am not sure yet. But please don't say the $80 version is obligatory. That is comparable to saying I need to buy the COD + Xbox 360, because I want that swag looking controller. But it is $300. COD is overpriced. Bungie/activion made a very very stupid move, that is for sure though. We can all agree there, but lets not follow Reddit and completely exaggerate a few cosmetics. So again: VERY VERY STUPID, but please, it is 9 cosmetic items in a game with hundreds of everything (except for the dance moves I really want ) edit: oops, didn't read the 3rd page yet
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 22, 2015 10:09:36 GMT -5
As I mentioned in a different thread, I had the pleasure of sherpaing 2 new titans to the game last night. They were just like the type of players that is mentioned in that article. They played destiny, took a break from it for different reasons, then were very disappointed by TDB, took another break, but are giving Destiny one last shot. They never did the Nexus raid before, as matchmaking wasn't offered back then. They're both level 32.5 players having done very few raids and mostly events... they just bought vanguard armour and used an exotic that they got from Xur. In that article, it states that the players should be given a massive light jump of armour. But it won't piss anyone off, because it exists already. Buying 3 pieces of vanguard eq and an exotic takes you 32. And because gauntlets, boots, and chest are all 75 marks... 2 VG eq's + exotic helm and a green armour... takes you to level 29.5. Next week at the reset, grind out 25 more marks to buy the last set of VG eq... and you're 32. With weekly matchmaking, with the Wolves that pop up during events... it's not hard to get what you need. Hell, I did tons of events with bradman with his baby hunter... all he had to do was hit the boss once or twice and let me do the rest... and he got to access the chest. It's just like killing the devil walker as a level 6... hurt it to enter the event and crawl away and let the big boys do the rest. Destiny has enough built in mechanics to make the task of obtaining upper light levels easier than ever... no more commendations... instant 42 new exotics... no worries about mats grinding... it's all gone. It's never been easier. The only sticking point that might happen is that in order to do the DLC older strikes (Will of Crota and the HoW ones) that you will have to finish the story line; boo hoo... shaddup and kill things and level yer gear
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jun 22, 2015 10:35:20 GMT -5
The guy who wrote that article clearly hasn't played destiny for a while. I would even like to bet he didn't even play any DLC at all, he probably just read some stuff online.
1. Buying the previous dlc's is a nonissue. New players get that for free in the $80 version, which is a great deal if you never played destiny, in any way you look at it. For the lapsed players who would like to prepare for TK beforehand, you don't have to buy the DLC. Players without DLC can easily get to lvl 33, and even to lvl 34 in the end (EL from nightfall and IB) 2. The biggest complaint I heard this DLC around is: the grind is too SHORT. It might be biased because of the group I play with. But I only play during the weekends and have three lvl 34's and 10 EL to spare. It is probably because the new rewards are kinda lackluster (or just suck...) and not really worth grinding for. IMHO bungie didn't make the best move by making old weapons valid again, but that is probably an unpopular opinion (this is 99% for PvE, PvP actually got some very cool weapon options and got a great boost this DLC, raid weapons also were never OP in pvp). The only thing they can (and should) do now is make the new weapons at least as overpowered as the VoG/CE weapons and increase the difficulty of their content. So make firefly, field scout and all the best perks available for stock weapons. Why would I ever want to reroll an hand cannon with kinetic damage for the best perks if I can have an ARC one with even better perks? Why would I reroll a rocket launcher to get one with tracking and solar if I can get HoC with tracking AND cluster bombs? They didn't really think the EL thing through if you aks me. EL + weaker new perks = removing all the fun in collecting new stuff. 3. Level gap? this guy clearly didn't do his homework. The armour vendor you can buy is light 36 off the bat. Get four of those and you are already lvl 32. Play a weekly heroic, a lvl 32 PoE and some other content and you will have enough coins to buy an exotic from xur and an armour piece from varicks, which will get you to lvl 33 easily. That is not even taking all those legendary engrams into consideration. Something which is not rare at all anymore these days. Over the course of two weeks a casual player with some time will probably be lvl 31+.
Other than that, I think there is pretty good evidence the non-light level will be raised by TK, completely removing the need for light gear in the first place...
p.s. lets all call the taken king "TK" or something. TTK is way to confusing with all the stats talk (time to kill)
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 22, 2015 10:45:50 GMT -5
few thoughts
- I don't think you are seeing the correct viewpoint.
- The point of his article is lapsed players. Not the players who are obsessing on re-rolling weapons hundreds of times for the right roll, and fine tuning PoE tactics. The latter are playing regardless of what Bungie does. It really doesn't matter what you think, lik eif the grind is to short for example. You will keep playing regardless. The former, those are who might be needed if this game hopes to stay around. That was the point of the article.
- I think his point is that IF a lapsed player comes back, he isn't exactly going to be in the position to get stuff quick. Look at your own example using the PoE Lv 32. That's a horrible example. If a lapsed player comes back, he won't be in position to do that right away. Take me for example. I haven't been on that much due to being busy and I haven't even tried the level 32 PoE yet. Not even once yet. If I haven't done it, then it's a fair assumption to make that a lapsed player of a few months is going to have even a harder shot. The player won't probably have a ton of friends around.
I'm not saying it's hard to level either, but you have to take it from the perspective of being lapsed. No one on this board can remotely have that point of view.
That's the thing CoD always did well. Each year when the new game came out, everyone got a clean slate & fresh start. Destiny doesn't do that. You feel like you are behind, once you step off the leveling/grinding train. Yes, part of that 'feeling' may be irrational, but it is there. And a game that continues to lose 10-20% of it's player base with each DLC/update, is not one that will have much hope. Especially a game based on group play. Look at how hard CoD took a hit in the past two years.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jun 22, 2015 10:55:36 GMT -5
Yeah I understand it is about lapsed players. But even for them, the road ahead has never been easier. The points he is making like:
"Even recently, after liking House of Wolves quite a bit, I tried to goad one of my old fireteam friends into playing again. But once he realized that he’d not only have to buy The Dark Below, but also grind for quite a while to get his light level up to the point where House of Wolves would even be playable, he didn’t even want to bother." Are a clear way of pointing out he doesn't really know anything about the last few months of this game. Nobody who has any knowledge of this game would let a friend believe they have to buy TDB to get to lvl 32, because it is simply not true. There is a faster AND cheaper way. Just run some strikes/weekly/nightfall/crucible.
Especially with the new crucible mark system, you can be from lvl 20 to lvl 31+ in like five hours. I understand a grind is not really luring in players who stopped playing, but that is why they are probably raising the ligh-less (TM) lvl. So everybody has to lvl their characters from 20-30/40? again. This will most probably be done through the story missions. Completely forgetting something like this while stating other non-factual or very debatable "facts" makes me believe the article seems to be quite selective about facts, just to make a point.
Like he wrote the conclusion first, and then went online to find some arguments/filling text to put in front of it.
He does raise an interesting topic with the lapsed players though. A very important one as well. But keeping the vast playerbase satisfied is at least as important if you aks me.
edit: As for COD, It always felt like an enormous grind to me to get to the good stuff, as before that it was often just dying as little as possible while gaining as much xp as possible. (like getting counter perks like ghost etc, or getting claymores etc) Not all COD's did that. But once I missed launch week and I felt severely gimped until I got rid of that huge ass first prestige grind.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jun 22, 2015 11:07:24 GMT -5
That's a good point too, that the base level will almost surely be raised when The Taken King comes out. In other words, having all green gear will probably put you at level 30 (or higher, even), all blue gear will be somewhere around 35ish, and the level cap with all endgame legendary gear will be 40. Obviously those are just guesstimates, but something along those lines, anyway. Meaning anyone who's coming back after a long hiatus is going to be bumped up significantly without doing anything or maybe by just completing story missions.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 22, 2015 11:22:56 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of the CoD comparisons...
[balljockeying free post]
Because CoD comes out with a new game, from a new developer, and interest usually shuts down after what... march? Destiny has released DLCs... added content, not brand new games... So the expectation of a brand new experience is unfair: TDB was never Destiny 2, nor is HoW Destiny 3... it's more Destiny 1.2 and Destiny 1.3. It's the same Destiny 1 with add ons. You can expect a different game experience from COD Ghosts, AW, and BO2... because you are getting different games and not the same game with 3 different DLCs made by 3 different companies
As I told my brother in law who got the game a bit ago and doesn't play it anymore: If you're going to play Destiny, you have to accept that you'll have to grind out to get where you want to be. You cannot realistically expect to game for 5 hours and get the same goods and content and be at the same level as someone who has 5 weeks of pure game time. I mean, it's possible with the RNG system to get lucky and have the best content drop for you right away... but it's not realisitic. You cannot realistically expect to not pay for certain content and get the same goodies for that content. He quit and I doubt he'll come back.
DLCs are not new games. They are add ons. They are toppings. One cannot expect to pay for 2 scoops of plain vanilla ice cream and expect it to taste the same 2 scoops of vanilla icecream with hotfudge, nuts, and sprinkles. I applaud Bungie for making it as easy as possible for new players to get to the top of the foodchain as possible... but they still have to work for it
But these arguments are getting old and stale and debately invalid. There is matchmaking now to get people to run weekly strikes for SC. There is matchmaking for level 28 POE. 4 pieces of vanguard EQ takes you straight to level 32 and putting on a new exotic takes you to level 32.5. Those who still complain about the light level jump either 1) are doing it wrong, 2) don't know what they're doing, or 3) haven't played HoW.
And now that people know about HoW, you can see it. You can tell those internet reviewers and youtube posters who have played HoW and know what's going on, and those who have barely scratched the surface. It's like those people who sit down and watch an entire sporting event, and those who just watch the highlights or read a short internet article about it. It's starting with the silly line that 'Destiny's not being creative because the Taken are just reskinned and dark shaded.' They're supposed to be that way: they're not new characters, they're altered. They're perverted by Oryx and altered... they're not new. They're given new skills and powers to alter the experience, not completely change it. It's the same thing with the tired old lines that 'Nothing is new, they just reused old levels and made them backwards.' Again... they're not supposed to be brand new, but different. In TTK, Oryx is invading us. He has come to kick out a$$e$ for what we did to Crota. So why would the Moon suddenly look different? Why would the Cosmodrome look different? We're not going to new places, the people of the new places are coming to us.
If one wants a new game, play a new game. If one wants to play a game with DLCs, one has to accept that those DLCs will offer additional content but won't fundamentally change from the original game. To use TDB as an example: if we're going to the moon to kill Crota, one shouldn't expect the moon nor the Hive to look and function dramatically differently than what they looked and functioned like before the DLC happened.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Jun 22, 2015 11:41:25 GMT -5
Not reading the article now, but really this whole grind thing seems a nonissue to me. My brother was level 25 just two weeks ago, only played a little the first of those two weeks then played a lot this last week and now he's 31 and we ran PoE28 yesterday so he's ready for 32 now and he has over a hundred marks so he's just waiting for the reset so he can get a few more and pickup a legendary helmet since he's still wearing a blue one. (Rare armors do still have light...)
The thing is getting players to 34 and end game ASAP actually can in fact be detrimental to the game. You say all those players doing all that PoE stuff and everything will play no matter what anyway so who cares if they max out quickly. I don't agree with that assessment. Some of them will, but some won't. The higher up the grind ladder you get the harder it is to progress. Pushing those players strait to the end could push a lot of players from the fun part of grinding the new DLC to the crappy part of the grind.
We call it a grind, but really there's no specific point where progression becomes grind, because it's all relative. If it feels like too much work to the next reward that actually improves our progress then it feels like a grind, if not then it's just progression. The further along you are the more grindy it gets. The game needs lots of easily achievable stuff to keep more casual players around, but it also needs lots of really grindy stuff to keep die hard players interesting month after month. If you give them nearly everything 1 week after the DLC comes out what are they going to do in all the months before TK is released? Some will play anyway. Others will get bored and wander off.
The best you can do then is to just reward players at a steady pace. Giving players a big fat handout would actually be less rewarding than spreading out those rewards over a reasonable amount of time. If you get it all at once it just feels like 1 reward. If you get rewards 5 times in a day it feels like it's raining rewards.
Basically it's all a juggling act and they have to go with something. No matter how grindy or nongrindy they make the game it's not going to be a fit for everyone, and people will argue about it. Personally, I think it's mostly okay up until the final tier of exotics collecting... although that is actually a fully optional goal. Neither having Ghorn nor every exotic is required for anything. Simply getting to the level cap is, honestly... not that hard. I will say part of the 20's does get a bit too grindy IMO just because you're too low level to do the end game activities so you're stuck doing patrols, bounties, and strikes. But it doesn't really take all that much work to get a few legendaries and start running at least the low level weeklies. I think I wish they had not increased the difficulty of the weeklies. I don't think that was necessary. I mean level 32, really? By the time you're able to run level 32 weeklies you've got access to NF, VoG, CE, PoE, IB, and maybe even ToO. Just running a weekly for a few coins is more like filler.
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 22, 2015 11:48:34 GMT -5
RE CoD points.
RE CoD (to Marco) Typically, CoD played throughout the summer, at least up and unto last year. Take BO2 (Nov 2013 to summer of 2014) BO2 remained pretty high well into the summer after it came out, with numbers well over 200,000 online during busy nights. Ghosts (2014) saw a dropoff, but still had 30,000 to 75,000 playing nightly (on XB360), even though it has split console issues going on, as well as some dislike due to it's campy nature. CoDAW? I have no clue, I stopped playing it. A case could be made it died out within a month of being out (pre-xmas). People left it in mass numbers after giving it a try, and deciding they didn't like it's helter-skelter, jerkish exo-jumping movement system. Times change.
RE CoD pt 2 (to qupie) - At least prior to CoDAW, a person could have everything they needed in a few hours, at least be on the same level playing field as anyone you came across when competing/playing again. I'm talking about unlocking things on the way from level 1 to level 50 (or whatever it was to Prestige). That stuff came fast. The only 'grindish' part of the game was IF you want to keep going to Prestige 10 or so. But that wasn't required. All you got for prestiging was new emblems and more create-a-class slots. I reset my stats in CoD Ghosts during the summer. I got to Prestige 1, and never prestige again. Never had too. Game played fine and i had everything in needed.You can't even compare CoD to Destiny in terms of grinding. Apples and oranges.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jun 22, 2015 11:50:40 GMT -5
I think I wish they had not increased the difficulty of the weeklies. I don't think that was necessary. I mean level 32, really? By the time you're able to run level 32 weeklies you've got access to NF, VoG, CE, PoE, IB, and maybe even ToO. Just running a weekly for a few coins is more like filler. Naw... they had to raise the level.. otherwise there'd be no challenge for those 34ers with ascended weapons. We'd just have to enter, zerg to the nexus, have him $hit himself with fear and burp out 9 coins. The only other way would be to add more modifiers but then you're encroaching on the nightfall. If you're going to make it so that you can get 4 VG armours to go straight to 32, you can't leave the weekly at 28... that's 4 levels without going to PoE... and 6 if you got the Kellbreaker gear. It'd turn the weekly into a 15 minute zerg fest where no one would die and some people could probably get more strange coins in the end than kills
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Post by iw5000 on Jun 22, 2015 11:54:29 GMT -5
Basically it's all a juggling act and they have to go with something. No matter how grindy or nongrindy they make the game it's not going to be a fit for everyone, and people will argue about it. I don't think anyone is really arguing here. I certainly wasn't. I didn't find the article to be argumentative either. I found it interesting because one, it came from Forbes. Which is widely read. And two, it's interesting from a design perspective, in terms of making and marketing a game. The balancing act of keeping things busy for heavy players while still attracting new blood. CoD got around this for years by simply coming out with a new game. It worked, up and until the console split and the 'new game' (AW) wasn't liked. Destiny? We'll see. The article made some interesting points I thought.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Jun 22, 2015 11:58:33 GMT -5
RE CoD points. RE CoD (to Marco) Typically, CoD played throughout the summer, at least up and unto last year. Take BO2 (Nov 2013 to summer of 2014) BO2 remained pretty high well into the summer after it came out, with numbers well over 200,000 online during busy nights. Ghosts (2014) saw a dropoff, but still had 30,000 to 75,000 playing nightly (on XB360), even though it has split console issues going on, as well as some dislike due to it's campy nature. CoDAW? I have no clue, I stopped playing it. A case could be made it died out within a month of being out (pre-xmas). People left it in mass numbers after giving it a try, and deciding they didn't like it's helter-skelter, jerkish exo-jumping movement system. Times change. I dunno if this is relevant or not, but I think one of the best things BO2 did was integrate DLC maps into the regular play list. I know that when my BinL didn't have the DLC, I could still game with him on the 12ish other maps... there was never that obvious exclusion; the new DLC maps just never loaded and matchmaking put us with others who never had the DLC. The #1 thing that made me quit CoD Ghosts was that they didn't have that integration... I bought the season pass and everything but because they never integrated the DLC maps into the regular rotation, I never played the DLC maps and quit, feeling I never got my money's worth. And this is coming from someone who lalalaloved to camp in MW3, BO2, and Ghosts. CoD:AW... the exosuits instantly turned me off and I never paid any attention to it. One of the nice things about HoW is that people who don't own the DLC can still do the wolf hunts, and go to the reef and all that... they just don't get the rewards. Which is perfectly logical in its expectations
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qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
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Post by qupie on Jun 22, 2015 12:02:54 GMT -5
The thing is getting players to 34 and end game ASAP actually can in fact be detrimental to the game. You say all those players doing all that PoE stuff and everything will play no matter what anyway so who cares if they max out quickly. I don't agree with that assessment. Some of them will, but some won't. The higher up the grind ladder you get the harder it is to progress. Pushing those players strait to the end could push a lot of players from the fun part of grinding the new DLC to the crappy part of the grind. We call it a grind, but really there's no specific point where progression becomes grind, because it's all relative. If it feels like too much work to the next reward that actually improves our progress then it feels like a grind, if not then it's just progression. The further along you are the more grindy it gets. The game needs lots of easily achievable stuff to keep more casual players around, but it also needs lots of really grindy stuff to keep die hard players interesting month after month. If you give them nearly everything 1 week after the DLC comes out what are they going to do in all the months before TK is released? Some will play anyway. Others will get bored and wander off. The best you can do then is to just reward players at a steady pace. Giving players a big fat handout would actually be less rewarding than spreading out those rewards over a reasonable amount of time. If you get it all at once it just feels like 1 reward. If you get rewards 5 times in a day it feels like it's raining rewards. This! Of coarse there are loads of players who don't want to grind, but there are also loads of players who really like to grind. It is the biggest strong point of destiny, probably combined with gunplay. Bungie will never be able to make everybody happy. That is why they need to do as much as possible to let the hardcore players still have a grind while not putting the casual players at a too big disadvantage. The new exotic armours are a great example of this. The hardcore players have most of them already, as they had a huge stack of motes of light laying around. They probably burned through those real quick, re-balancing the economies a bit after the speaker update. Now some of them need to wait a little while before they can reforge their favorite weapons. The Etheric light upgrade for weapons was a noob move imho, but the armour can actually be quite fun! especially with ToO, it is very important to have the best modifiers and perks on your armour. This makes matching pieces real fun and it is a great way to make etheric light still desirable for those players who play ALLOT. For the casual players, they will probably earn some EL now and then, just enough to upgrade their favorite weapons and armour. Just fast enough to keep it fun and just slow enough to give them an incentive for playing. There are people in my group who already have EVERYTHING. and by that I mean everything. That sucks for them, as they start to look for other games now (except when trials is around). Some ppl hate to grind, some love it. But I would personally like it if bungie put a bit more grinding in TK, we are playing destiny after all. If ppl don't like any form of grinding they shouldn't be playing this game in the first place. It is what makes Destiny different from the other FPSs.
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qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
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Post by qupie on Jun 22, 2015 12:05:04 GMT -5
RE CoD points. RE CoD pt 2 (to qupie) - At least prior to CoDAW, a person could have everything they needed in a few hours, at least be on the same level playing field as anyone you came across when competing/playing again. I'm talking about unlocking things on the way from level 1 to level 50 (or whatever it was to Prestige). That stuff came fast. The only 'grindish' part of the game was IF you want to keep going to Prestige 10 or so. But that wasn't required. All you got for prestiging was new emblems and more create-a-class slots. I reset my stats in CoD Ghosts during the summer. I got to Prestige 1, and never prestige again. Never had too. Game played fine and i had everything in needed.You can't even compare CoD to Destiny in terms of grinding. Apples and oranges. Sorry, but BO2 to ghost was hellalot longer than a few hours. It took me about a week... (RL, not game time, game time was probably something like 20-25 hours per prestige?) And THAT was what I called a grind, because I don't like dying because I don't have something. PvE grinding is no big deal if you like the gunplay, but PvP can be horrible if you are losing because of disadvantages. While it might be a pitfall for destiny, I see it as an huge advantage. To add on an old game for once, instead of rebuilding it over and over again. I always wanted an COD with the maps, weapons and killstreaks from ALL the previous ones, figure how awesome that would have been. (WITH proper balancing that is)
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