Titanfall 2 maps discussion thread

[wittyscorpion]

Stumbled onto this little gem: bird's eye view of all TF2 stock maps, thought it would be pretty cool to share especially on the eve of Angel City's arrival. While we are at it, might as well purpose this thread for general map discussion.

How do you rank these maps, from the most favorite to least favorite?

[wittyscorpion]

Just for reference, 15 stock maps of the original TF. (TF1 had 24 maps with stock + DLC, TF2 needs to do better...)

Specifically speaking, Angel City:

[Will]

It really shows why we all dislike Complex and Crash Site so much. It's all of the negative/inaccessible space, making the map feel very "laned" with long corridors, rather than the fun, open, swiss-cheese style maps of the original.

Highlighted in red what I am talking about:

[mannon]

I'm not totally opposed to them. Specifically when I'm running Scorch I kinda like complex and I enjoyed crash site with Northstar. Though on the pilot side of things yeah, not so much. Here's hoping they keep pumping out TF1 maps for us. I would honestly like to have them all! heh

You definitely have a good point, though. Hell I only saw the Research base (A) on crash site for the first time last night. I wandered around a bit before getting bored and moving on. On attrition that thing's completely abandoned. Nobody bothers with it. heh I can see why too, it has nothing to offer. It's a damn cul-de-sac. For the titans the entire map is basically just a loop. As a pilot you've got some options but the main titan lanes are so wide that your parkour has to be pretty on point or you wind up in an awkward jump you can't quite make and turn into a ground potato with not all that many exits from the titan lane. I was kinda hoping it would be more like Relic, but oh well.

[wittyscorpion]

Crash Site seems to be designed as a shooting range map . Almost none of the walls are "grab-able" for chaining wall runs which discourages fast movement, and long shooting lanes for sniping.

[mannon]

There are some, but I think you have to study the map and practice if you want to take a 100% parkour route around it. I'd bet that it's possible, even without the grapple, but it's not obvious and probably not easy. I imagine you have to keep your speed up to do it as well. Whiff a jump or have to make a correction and lose your speed and you may not make the next one. Grapple is pretty handy on this map. I imagine stim would be as well, and maybe even cloak for evading titan death, though you better have the kit that hides your trails.

You would think that the ship in the middle would be more complex, but it's really simple. I guess it's more of a figure 8 for titans since they can go through the ship.

[qupie]

I personally love complex. That map was made to wallrun around with a sidewinder and wreck face.

In general I agree, those maps are less fun because of the lanes style. But I feel having 1 or 2 of those maps is perfectly fine and a really nice change of pace. But we really need some of those TF1 style maps as well. 2/9 is too much (and boomtown is actually kind of similarly restricted).

[Pegasus Actual]

[wittyscorpion]

One thing to keep in mind is that TF2 is trying to broken its appeal by making modes like Pilot vs. Pilot more fun. While TF1 maps are good for Titan battles, many of them are not great for pilot combat.

I think Crash Site and possibly Complex are designed with that in mind.

And in general, while TF2 did a lot things right, one area that seriously needs improvement is maps. First of all, only 9 maps? TF1 had 15 maps at the time of release, that's a major let down. Secondly, the map quality needs improvement as well. They should consider

1) making game mode specific maps, mainly for Pilot vs. Pilot and LTS;

2) making maps on which grapple can be very useful;

3) giving Northstar some unique sight lines, say only from an elevated position behind buildings that only her jumps can reach;

[mannon]

I'm not hugely in favor of mode specific maps, either. The way I see it every mode specific map is one less map I'll get to play since I'm not a huge fan of all the various modes and mostly stick to attrition. By making a map mode specific you vastly limit the payoff since only a small subset of players will actually play it. Personally I'd rather just have maps more similar to the TF1 maps which to me felt like they played pretty well both on foot and in titan.

I personally am very much against making any areas of the maps exclusive to any one thing whether that be grapple or Northstar flying, ect. That's not to say I think there shouldn't be advantages. They just shouldn't be fully exclusive. I think it's better if grapple and Northstar's flight can be used for shortcuts and new routes rather than getting to places that are otherwise unobtainable. One exception would be I would allow Northstar to land on buildings as long as it's not a huge advantage. In fact I'd say it would usually be a bad place to be since you would be so exposed, but it could get you a sightline to snipe across the map and then drop off the back of the building when you catch some return fire. It would have to be buildings not so huge that other titans couldn't possibly get to you, though. Like basically small enough you can be melee'd from at least one side of the building in addition to being pretty much super exposed. Mostly it would be useful for getting over things, though. You could also give Northstar some more air cover. Some signs, radar dishes, towers, ect strategically placed to allow Northstar to get an advantage from flying but have some amount of cover as well.

[wittyscorpion]

PvP and LTS are unique enough modes with dedicated player population that probably warrant them to have specifically designed maps:

1) PvP: no need for Titan accessible tall wide paths, exclusive indoors are fine, complex verticality and elaborate wall run setup are welcome;
2) LTS: no need for buildings with interior (except for windows that can shoot through);

On grapple: with a significant innovation such as this added to the game, it is a shame that it does not provide the expected benefits that rival the other tac abilities. I am not saying that there should be spots that only reachable through grappling, what I am hoping for is that user of grapple can move around maps and/or reach certain power positions much faster, similar to what Stim can help players race from point A to point B (say CTF) faster;

On Northstar: Northstar already has advantages of obtaining certain sight lines that others can't, but I am not sure how much advantage that provides (LTS specific maps probably can change that). I suspect that such power positions are still yet to be discovered, because otherwise it is hard to explain why this Titan feels so UP in an otherwise fairly well balanced meta (once Tone can no long chain cores of course).

[wittyscorpion]

With Angel City Most Wanted:

1) if you have early access to Angel City map you can start playing today at 4pm in the 24/7 playlist only.
2) If you do not have early access then it's live on 12/2 at 4pm PST at which time Angel City will be added to map rotation for other playlists.
3) players who did not preorder can play Angel City early as well, just have a friend who preordered create a Network, join that Network, and have that friend invite Network to the playlist.

[Will]

Mode-specific maps is a terrible idea. Pilot vs pilot shouldn't even be a thing, nor should Skirmish. Also Amped Hardpoint is the dumbest concept ever... you get more points for tactical loitering your starting flag than you do for seeking out and attacking enemy flags?

Attrition, Hardpoint (not amped), LTS, and Capture the Flag are the only true game modes. Ideally, there would also be a "quickplay" button on the home screen that launches you into a Mix Tape lobby.

[wittyscorpion]

I agree on Amped Hardpoint is a terrible idea. Bad players now have an excuse to camp at their spawn, to "amp" the hard point.

IMHO Pilot vs. Pilot is not bad, I don't mind playing it once in a while in mixed tape. I believe it can be a lot more fun if it has some dedicated maps with tighter space but more interesting parkour friendly layout. It can be a starting point for CoD players, once they feel comfortable there then move on to Titan game modes.

PvP removes 2 x-factors that make CoD players uncomfortable: 1) AIs, 2) Titans. If it can lower the entry point for CoD players, it is a solid idea on expanding the franchise's appeal.

CTF should really be put on the first page. Have it on second page effectively killed it.

[Will]

I think the opposite is true - Pilot vs Pilot would turn off newer/COD players, because they would get shitstomped by someone who knows how to parkour properly. Attrition is the best game mode for them, and it really is what will suck a new player in and make them fall in love, with the massive epic scale battle going on around them. Titanfall 1 Attrition was soooooo immersive. A lot of that died in T2, especially with the matches being random factions fighting for no apparent reason (seriously, Respawn needs to make all matches IMC vs Militia again!!! They can still let us choose our announcer/dropship faction...)

Respawn pushing Bounty Cunt so hard is really hurting this game, because that game mode is VERY complicated/confusing for new players, and is just a less-fun version of Attrition in general.

[wittyscorpion]

I agree Attrition is a noob-friendly game mode for players who don't play a lot FPS. When I say PvP is a good entry point for CoD fans, I am talking about players who have played a lot of CoD and generally obsess with K/Ds. For them, AIs and Titans are kinda pointless and "counter-fun".

[mannon]

I don't think you even need dedicated maps to optimize pilot v pilot anyway. Pilots are already optimized to operate in a shared space. Nearly all the weapons are accurate at long range even if you're hipfiring and doing your flying squirrel routine and all the parkour mechanics allow you to traverse larger spaces quickly and make use of verticality. Honestly all we really need is maps more like TF1. I feel like they were better balanced in TF1 with lots of pilot only building spaces. And they pretty much already were optimized for parkour. I'm still learning TF2 maps so I can't really parkour from one end to the other yet nor can I say if that has really changed or not. But I know in the first game you could definitely parkour all the way around most of the maps. One thing I do miss is the zip lines. They were risky, but also an easy way to get up high and fast to start a route and they also supplemented areas that weren't as easy to parkour across.

Some of the TF2 maps are a bit awkward for pilots, but I don't think that means you need to design maps just for pilots to have ones that aren't awkward.

As for pilot v pilot in general... The community asked for it in the first game and got it. It's basically Titanfall's "hardcore" mode... It's a terrible mode to play the game that not only removes many of the game's key features it even effectively nerfs a lot of the pilot loadout options if there's no titans or ais to worry about so it kills the diversity even more. Having said that, I'm still glad it's there for people that want to do that. Some will just play it here and there and others will play nothing but pilot v pilot. Personally, I'm staying out of it.

I'd actually like to see some new kind of game modes that focus more on Titanfall's key features. The whole capture point kind of thing really kind of runs counter to TF's mobility focused gameplay in general. That's what's nice about attrition. It actually does focus on TF's key features since both the titans and high mobility are great for taking out minions to increase score and reduce cooldowns. It would be interesting to come up with some new kinds of objectives that could focus more on parkour and titans than traditional ones, although I could see some modes from other games working in TF as well if done right. You could have bomb planting objectives or even an AI VIP titan to escort, ect.

[trizzydizzy]

Ooh, I like the idea of parkour/mobility themed mode.

How about a single flag type game where the objective is for your team to hold on to the flag as long as possible? Whichever team holds on to it for a total of 10 mins wins.

[mannon]

I like it. How about we make it not just about keeping the flag so you can't park it and hole up or hide. Something like 1 flag with multiple cap locations where you can score. Or else simply make it distance traveled with the flag rather than time to keep you on the move. Then reward both flag carriers and killers of flag carriers with time off their titan cooldowns, but you drop the flag if you get in your titan.


How about a mode where both teams have the flying drones from single player zipping around the map roughly following routes. You get a couple that attack and one spy-drone that doesn't attack but will mark all enemies it can see within a certain range on the map, (also improving AI's aim). The catch is you don't want to just blow them all up. You want to chase them down and rodeo them. Successfully rodeo one of the flying turrets and you not only destroy it but rip out a battery. But to score you need to rodeo the enemy team's single spy-drone, hack it to steal intel, then bring that intel back to your spy-drone. Hacking it also disables it, but a new one will spawn as soon as you either cap the data or get killed. Kinda complicated, but could be simplified. I just like the idea of basically having to catch the golden snitch. ;p


You could also have a FFA mode where everybody's titan timer is very short so that you can call them down almost any time, but nobody has any power, unless you have the 1 battery on the map. Sort of a asymmetrical pilots vs titan thing, only once the titan goes down it's a race to get that battery. Not the best mode since titan vs pilot is not the most fun combat in the game, but I kinda like the idea of going king kong on a bunch of pilots. You'd have to make it so that you don't drop THE battery until the titan blows up, though. If a single rodeo would take you out that would be too annoying.

[mannon]

Not so much a game mode, but I think it would be cool to have a map where the battle takes place on a big ship like that mission from single player. It would need to be a bit bigger and more complex, but it could also have some sort of open hanger or something so it could actually be multi level. What would make it really interesting and not just window dressing is if we had some smaller ships that would fly past and pilots could parkour off of and especially if the main ship could bank to either side, changing the dynamics of the map. You could even have it bank in response to the weight of the titans on top of it.

[qupie]

Nov 29, 2016 16:45:04 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

One thing to keep in mind is that TF2 is trying to broken its appeal by making modes like Pilot vs. Pilot more fun. While TF1 maps are good for Titan battles, many of them are not great for pilot combat.

I think Crash Site and possibly Complex are designed with that in mind.

And in general, while TF2 did a lot things right, one area that seriously needs improvement is maps. First of all, only 9 maps? TF1 had 15 maps at the time of release, that's a major let down. Secondly, the map quality needs improvement as well. They should consider

1) making game mode specific maps, mainly for Pilot vs. Pilot and LTS;

2) making maps on which grapple can be very useful;

3) giving Northstar some unique sight lines, say only from an elevated position behind buildings that only her jumps can reach;

Could be, but crash site is pure horror in PvP imho. I don't mind it soo much in game modes with minions, and I feel it is actually really good for CTF. But PvP or TvT is just a gigantic clusterfuck of corner campers and whole teams looking at a doorway.