markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 18, 2017 16:12:31 GMT -5
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bradman
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Post by bradman on May 18, 2017 16:26:49 GMT -5
In-game LFG, like I thought.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on May 18, 2017 16:37:46 GMT -5
Ya done Foxtroted up Bungie. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 18, 2017 18:11:10 GMT -5
Probably 30 FPS for regular PS4 and PS4 Pro at 4K, but mebbe 60 FPS for PS4 Pro at 1080p? I hope so, that's been kinda the standard thing for the PS4 Pro stuff. I'll have to check out some videos later. Sounds cool so far.
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Post by godzilla on May 18, 2017 23:59:09 GMT -5
Probably 30 FPS for regular PS4 and PS4 Pro at 4K, but mebbe 60 FPS for PS4 Pro at 1080p? I hope so, that's been kinda the standard thing for the PS4 Pro stuff. I'll have to check out some videos later. Sounds cool so far. Destiny 2 is a locked 30 FPS on console. Now while PS4 Pro doesn't quite have the hardware to push 60 FPS for a game that's 30 at the same resolution (see Dark Souls 3, some of the PS4 racers like Project Cars), Scorpio definitely would have. Disappointing, especially when you consider Titanfall 2 and Doom both look and run great on a standard PS4 at 60 FPS. That interview link also confirms no dedicated servers, and the interviewee dodges the question when asked about tick rate improvements in Destiny 2. |
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wings
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Post by wings on May 19, 2017 2:46:25 GMT -5
Probably 30 FPS for regular PS4 and PS4 Pro at 4K, but mebbe 60 FPS for PS4 Pro at 1080p? I hope so, that's been kinda the standard thing for the PS4 Pro stuff. I'll have to check out some videos later. Sounds cool so far. Destiny 2 is a locked 30 FPS on console. Now while PS4 Pro doesn't quite have the hardware to push 60 FPS for a game that's 30 at the same resolution (see Dark Souls 3, some of the PS4 racers like Project Cars), Scorpio definitely would have. Disappointing, especially when you consider Titanfall 2 and Doom both look and run great on a standard PS4 at 60 FPS. That interview link also confirms no dedicated servers, and the interviewee dodges the question when asked about tick rate improvements in Destiny 2. The cynic in me expected 30 FPS and no dedicated servers. Having read all the trollop from plastic nerds on Reddit on how previous generation was holding back Destiny 1, I see huge trolling potential here. I would have liked 60 FPS, but it doesn't provide extra visual fidelity like I've seen people claim. Crysis 3 runs at 30 FPS and still owns a lot of newer games running at 60 FPS for graphics. |
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wings
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Post by wings on May 19, 2017 3:02:19 GMT -5
PVP modes rescaled for 4v4 instead of 6v6 or 3v3. I imagine this is because 6v6 don't always get lobbies filled across all skill levels and reduces the matchmaking time to start a match, whilst allowing for balance updates to be more compatible with competitively play since Destiny 1 has had balance updates where either threes or sixes suffer or benefit from a specific change, e.g. the special ammo loss upon death is largely okay for sixes to encourage primary play but it's Ice Breaker spam in threes, or the Firebolt nerf made facing Sunsingers more tolerable with Thorn being used in threes but encourage players in sixes to swap to fusion grenades (and now nearly everyone complains about them herp derp). No idea how large the maps will be but I guess if I wanted longer ranged engagements, I'm going to have to go elsewhere for that. Overall, I'd say the stuff looks good. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 19, 2017 9:13:17 GMT -5
Now while PS4 Pro doesn't quite have the hardware to push 60 FPS for a game that's 30 at the same resolution (see Dark Souls 3, some of the PS4 racers like Project Cars), Scorpio definitely would have. That's silly. If the game supports 4k resolution @ 30 FPS that is 4 times the fill rate of 1080p @ 30 FPS. 1080p @ 60 FPS is only 2X the fill rate. Now I'm sure it's not exactly the same, because to render more frames you do have to also advance the timeframe more often, but those calculations would mostly just be interpolations anyway and not likely to be the bottleneck. So if they have decided to cap PS4 Pro at 30 FPS it's not the hardware that is the limitation. More than likely they are doing it for consistency and multiplayer balance. 60 FPS would give players an advantage in Crucible and it could result in odd behaviors with things that often get tied to framerate such as physics. They would effectively have to test everything twice for 30 FPS and 60 FPS. I think it's unfortunate, but oh well. I assume there will be other graphical enhancements for the PS4 Pro's that are not hooked up to 4K displays. |
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 19, 2017 9:16:47 GMT -5
IF what I saw was 30 fps, I'm okay with it.
I would assume that in the future, we'll get more info about PVP
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bradman
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Post by bradman on May 19, 2017 9:22:29 GMT -5
No dedis and 30fps are bummers. Otherwise, I like what I'm seeing from this new expansion.
Native 4K for Pro is going to be nice.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 19, 2017 9:28:30 GMT -5
Let's also remember that e3 is coming up and I'm sure they've saved some goodies for that?
And here's a youtube vid... if you want it
at the 1:05 markish, Luke S comes out and says that the PSPro couldn't run the game at 60fps... at least they're being honest
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Destiny 2
May 19, 2017 10:00:01 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by GodMars on May 19, 2017 10:00:01 GMT -5
Hands-on reports have it being more of the same, with some tweaks. And if the PVP is going to be the same lag-fest it was in the first one, I'll pass.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 19, 2017 13:05:13 GMT -5
A few more thoughts after watching a bunch of gameplay vids this morning:
- People saying this looks like a DLC or expansion: Please do everyone a favor and shut the actual fuck up. Seriously. What did you expect, Dark Souls 4 disguised as an FPS? The game was always going to look and feel similar to Destiny with some new features and refinements added. Of course it does, obviously. It's a sequel for shit's sake, not a new IP.
- New sublclass abilities (Titan wall, warlock heal ring, etc) looked cool. Should have some strategic uses in both PvE and PvP.
- The strike looked and played like a current strike, but the sense of scale was much larger. Very large combat areas, a lot of Vault of Glass style jumping/platforming stuff. Basically what I'd expect.
- Kinetic-elemental-power weapon setup replacing primary-special-heavy is interesting. Not sure how I feel about it for PvE, depends on power ammo drop frequency and how effective your two "primary" weapons are. Didn't seem like the strike boss was overly spongy though considering most damage was done by small arms and not power weapons, so that's a good sign.
- Very much a fan of the new 4v4 PvP direction. 6v6 always seemed a little too chaotic, and 3v3 was always a little too slow for my tastes.
- Also a fan of the new weapon loadout system for PvP. Feels like a return to Halo mechanics almost. Looks like supers and power weapons are now the only things that can one-shot now, which is great, and primaries have longer TTKs. Should reward primary gunskill and accuracy much more than it's rewarded currently, where ability spam reigns supreme.
- 30 FPS for console sucks. No two ways about it. I guess I understand it for PvE due to the bigger environments and enemy counts, but I don't know what the excuse is for PvP. Too jarring to jump from PvP at 60 back to PvE at 30 maybe? At least they were honest about it though, saying the PS4 Pro straight up couldn't handle 60 FPS. They did refuse to mention anything regarding the Scorpio -- maybe there's hope for 60 FPS there, but I won't be keeping my hopes up.
- PvP matchmaking is supposed to go back to being connection-based, even for Trials which right now attempts to match teams with similar win totals. Hopefully it's pure CBMM and zero SBMM, which should alleviate a decent amount of the lag issues I'd expect.
With that said, I'm pretty excited, and I'm totally sold unless the beta is a disaster. Now I just have to figure out whether I want to switch to PC or stay on the Xbox, or maybe do both. Decisions, decisions.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 19, 2017 13:23:48 GMT -5
Also looking back now, the PvP special economy nerf makes total sense, or it would if NLB, Icebreaker, etc didn't exist. They're basically conditioning us to pick up special ammo now at the same intervals power ammo is spawning in D2, and to rely on primaries (sidearm is a primary in D2) more instead of special weapons which will no longer be a thing. I still don't like that change for the D1 sandbox, but at least now with some context it's more understandable.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 19, 2017 13:30:23 GMT -5
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wings
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Post by wings on May 20, 2017 7:48:09 GMT -5
Now while PS4 Pro doesn't quite have the hardware to push 60 FPS for a game that's 30 at the same resolution (see Dark Souls 3, some of the PS4 racers like Project Cars), Scorpio definitely would have. That's silly. If the game supports 4k resolution @ 30 FPS that is 4 times the fill rate of 1080p @ 30 FPS. 1080p @ 60 FPS is only 2X the fill rate. Now I'm sure it's not exactly the same, because to render more frames you do have to also advance the timeframe more often, but those calculations would mostly just be interpolations anyway and not likely to be the bottleneck. So if they have decided to cap PS4 Pro at 30 FPS it's not the hardware that is the limitation. More than likely they are doing it for consistency and multiplayer balance. 60 FPS would give players an advantage in Crucible and it could result in odd behaviors with things that often get tied to framerate such as physics. They would effectively have to test everything twice for 30 FPS and 60 FPS. I think it's unfortunate, but oh well. I assume there will be other graphical enhancements for the PS4 Pro's that are not hooked up to 4K displays. If they were bothered about technological differences providing in-game advantages perhaps they should freeze lagging players in the Crucible so red bar players never top the leaderboard and/or boot them like Rainbow Six: Siege. The decision probably involves a marketing angle to promote 4K as it looks better on adverts than 60 FPS. You could easily have 30 FPS for PvE and 60 FPS for PvP like other games. Stuck with 30 FPS and no dedicated servers on a game that wants to have a competitive scene means I keep checking the date to see if it's the 1st of April. |
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Destiny 2
May 20, 2017 8:09:23 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by GodMars on May 20, 2017 8:09:23 GMT -5
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Post by iw5000 on May 24, 2017 10:22:51 GMT -5
What's the current console situation like? I haven't looked at anything in a looooonnnng time.
Obviously Xbox One and PS4, but what's up with the PS$ Pro and this new Xbox thing coming out?
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bradman
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Post by bradman on May 24, 2017 12:29:10 GMT -5
They are 4K capable model revisions.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on May 24, 2017 12:43:36 GMT -5
They're more powerful versions of the PS4 and XB1, but for D2 it doesn't look like they're going to have much/any advantage over the standard consoles. They are 4K capable if you've got a TV/monitor that can take advantage of that, though. Unless the Scorpio can run D2 at 60 FPS, I don't see much reason to upgrade.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 24, 2017 14:26:06 GMT -5
They're more powerful versions of the PS4 and XB1, but for D2 it doesn't look like they're going to have much/any advantage over the standard consoles. They are 4K capable if you've got a TV/monitor that can take advantage of that, though. Unless the Scorpio can run D2 at 60 FPS, I don't see much reason to upgrade. IIRC, Console D2 is 30 fps, regardless of the console... Computer D2 is 60 fps. If the PSPro didn't have the testicular fortitude to run D2, I'd be surprised if Scorpio could... or would, for that matter. Givenh how Bungie and Sony are so snuggly wuggly in bed with one another... it would kill the romantic vibe if Bungie were to dutchoven Sony by letting their competition be able to run D2 at a faster, desired frame rate. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 24, 2017 14:55:11 GMT -5
Is PC locked at 60 or uncapped?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 24, 2017 15:06:36 GMT -5
If the PSPro didn't have the testicular fortitude to run D2, I'd be surprised if Scorpio could... I still call shenanigans on that. 60 FPS @ 1080p is half the fill rate of 30 FPS @ 4K. So how can the system magically chug away at 4K resolutions but doesn't have half the power to do 60 FPS at a lower resolution? Fill rate isn't everything, but it is the main bottleneck. I doubt the extra interpolation needed to double the framerate would amount to much, otherwise it would be a major factor in frame rates of all games and that is very much not what we see in PC land where we get to actually uncap frame rates and tweak things. Not that we've been able to do that with Destiny specifically, but I seriously doubt that the engine works in a way completely different from almost every other 3D game. Personally I think it's just Bungie taking the easy way. Trying to do 60 FPS would mean a lot more work to make sure everything worked properly at framerates in excess of 30... of course they're gonna have to do all that anyway for PC, but then PC release is delayed so they have more time. *shrug* It also means fewer hassles... like not having to worry about keeping things fair between 30 and 60 FPS players. And it gives them the chance to throw on some other graphical niceties for the 1080p crowd if they choose. I figure they'll at least have oversampled AA or something. |
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 24, 2017 15:20:13 GMT -5
Is PC locked at 60 or uncapped? |
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 24, 2017 15:21:37 GMT -5
If the PSPro didn't have the testicular fortitude to run D2, I'd be surprised if Scorpio could... I still call shenanigans on that. 60 FPS @ 1080p is half the fill rate of 30 FPS @ 4K. So how can the system magically chug away at 4K resolutions but doesn't have half the power to do 60 FPS at a lower resolution? Fill rate isn't everything, but it is the main bottleneck. I doubt the extra interpolation needed to double the framerate would amount to much, otherwise it would be a major factor in frame rates of all games and that is very much not what we see in PC land where we get to actually uncap frame rates and tweak things. Not that we've been able to do that with Destiny specifically, but I seriously doubt that the engine works in a way completely different from almost every other 3D game. Personally I think it's just Bungie taking the easy way. Trying to do 60 FPS would mean a lot more work to make sure everything worked properly at framerates in excess of 30... of course they're gonna have to do all that anyway for PC, but then PC release is delayed so they have more time. *shrug* It also means fewer hassles... like not having to worry about keeping things fair between 30 and 60 FPS players. And it gives them the chance to throw on some other graphical niceties for the 1080p crowd if they choose. I figure they'll at least have oversampled AA or something. As I said before, what was shown at the reveal looked pretty nice, so I'm more than happy not to spend more money to upgrade my tv and ps4 |
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Post by godzilla on May 24, 2017 16:06:29 GMT -5
If the PSPro didn't have the testicular fortitude to run D2, I'd be surprised if Scorpio could... I still call shenanigans on that. 60 FPS @ 1080p is half the fill rate of 30 FPS @ 4K. So how can the system magically chug away at 4K resolutions but doesn't have half the power to do 60 FPS at a lower resolution? Fill rate isn't everything, but it is the main bottleneck. I doubt the extra interpolation needed to double the framerate would amount to much, otherwise it would be a major factor in frame rates of all games and that is very much not what we see in PC land where we get to actually uncap frame rates and tweak things. Not that we've been able to do that with Destiny specifically, but I seriously doubt that the engine works in a way completely different from almost every other 3D game. Personally I think it's just Bungie taking the easy way. Trying to do 60 FPS would mean a lot more work to make sure everything worked properly at framerates in excess of 30... of course they're gonna have to do all that anyway for PC, but then PC release is delayed so they have more time. *shrug* It also means fewer hassles... like not having to worry about keeping things fair between 30 and 60 FPS players. And it gives them the chance to throw on some other graphical niceties for the 1080p crowd if they choose. I figure they'll at least have oversampled AA or something. PS4 Pro very rarely does true 4K; it's normally a lower resolution, e.g. 1800p upscaled to 4K, or uses checkerboarding rendering techniques for 4K output. Furthermore, Destiny taxes the CPU heavily because no dedicated servers, and both PS4 Pro and Scorpio just have higher-clocked Jaguar CPUs. Here's a Digital Foundry video that goes into great detail on the topic. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 25, 2017 8:18:26 GMT -5
That makes sense. If Destiny 2 4K is getting there through some tricks and chicanery then you can't say that it actually has the full 30FPS@4K fill rate and since those same tricks wouldn't translate well from simply increasing apparent resolution to increasing the actual number of frames rendered maybe there's something to that.
I do have to wonder... why did they bother with the PS4 pro? Yeah so it's a little more powerful, but it seems like it's not really enough to justify it if it isn't enough to translate games into 60 FPS or true 4K... *shrug* I'm certainly not rushing out to get a pro to replace my standard PS4.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 25, 2017 8:55:29 GMT -5
Why did they bother with the PS4Pro?
To make money... same reason why they $hit out CoD games every year
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 25, 2017 9:51:47 GMT -5
An entire new console generation is really expensive for everyone - expensive to design, build, and market; expensive to develop for, etc. There's a big risk with waiting an entire console generation of falling too far behind PC and losing consumers. Rather than pushing up the release of the next generation of consoles by a few years, it make sense to take advantage of the drop in the price of components and release an updated console with more powerful components at the same price point, and force the games to support both. People that aren't hardcore players don't feel obliged to upgrade, it just makes sense for everybody.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 25, 2017 11:35:51 GMT -5
Oh I see the benefit of an iterative hardware upgrade. I'm primarily a PC gamer where every upgrade is an iterative one. I just don't see the point in the hardware they chose to go with. If we were talking about enough power to enable 60 FPS or full blown 4K that would be a milestone well worth the investment.
As is it sounds like the benefits of owning a PS4 Pro are marginal, and probably not worth the cost of purchasing a whole new console for. If you don't already own a PS4 then sure, go for pro, but if you do why would you bother to upgrade unless you just HAVE TO HAVE the newest thing? I've never had the disposable income to get the latest and greatest CPU or graphics card on PC, or to own more than one of whatever is the current gen consoles so everything has to be a cost/benefit trade off. (Same reason I stopped playing Destiny... I got priced out of expansions that offered mostly just more of the same and found I could achieve greater benefit by applying my limited entertainment budget elsewhere.)
Was it necessary to do PS4 Pro when they did and limit the power upgrade as much as they did? If it doesn't have the power for either 60 FPS or 4K then all the selling points just sound like hyperbole and marketing fluff... *shrug* I'm not saying they should have held out for a full PS5 release, but they could have held out until they could offer a substantial amount of power.
I dunno. I guess they really just wanted enough to make the VR games more feasible and assumed VR would take off and sell it. Personally I'd love to try VR but it's still waaaayyyyyyy too damn expensive, even assuming I had the rendering power to play the games on it. By the time I can afford it VR will prolly be dead... again... ;p
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