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Post by Pegasus Actual on Apr 24, 2017 23:20:24 GMT -5
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 26, 2017 2:36:30 GMT -5
that map looks absolutely awesome though
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Apr 26, 2017 17:38:35 GMT -5
The new map was pretty fun from what I've played of it. Lots of long curvy wall-runs with the titan lanes weaving through them below. Surprised to see that they put Live Fire on it as well. Haven't tried the new dedicated Life Fire map yet. But having to wait on MFD and the new titan only modes to cycle into the featured playlist to play them is kind of a bummer.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Apr 27, 2017 5:33:25 GMT -5
Live fire is on glitch as well? that sound hell of a lot of fun! Imho it has always been a missed chance to not use the bigger maps in live fire. There is an objective in the middle, so players will find each other soon enough.
The new live fire map is actually pretty good. Lots of flanking locations, nobody ever watches the doorway below (yet), gave me some easy executions and pulse blade kills from behind the whole enemy team.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 27, 2017 9:51:37 GMT -5
I think they didn't put Live Fire on the bigger maps because they are pretty wide and spread out. They didn't want a match to fizzle out after a few kills then just have a few guys on one team run away and hide with the flag while the other team tries to find them over the entire map. It could turn the ends of rounds into hide and seek rather than the fast paced shoot 'em ups they are supposed to be. I'm a little surprised they didn't use the main maps at all, though. Seems like you could maybe cut down some of them to a smaller area of the whole map and run Live-Fire on that with some sort of barrier. *shrug*
Speaking of the new patch anybody else feel awkward watching FrothyOmen's video on it? (Assuming you watch FrothyOmen.) I dunno, I'm just feeling like he's getting more and more bitchy lately. I guess he has valid complaints but even where he agrees with tings Respawn is doing he barely gives them credit saying "too little, too late" over and over. Not that I feel like he's really wrong, but it affects the tone of his videos and actually makes the overall tone kinda negative. It's just not as enjoyable to watch a video where he basically complains throughout the whole video about this and that. I get it to some extent, Respawn has been really light on the DLC which is not really better than having to pay for DLC. All the DLC in the first game was well worth the price, unlike DLC for many other games. While I think it's pretty cool to make it free and not split the community spooning it out in dribs and drabs has not been great. It seems to me like Respawn is giving us a bit more now and maybe even doing it faster. I mean we actually have the first full new map and it looks really cool. I haven't played it yet, but it looks like maybe it's more inspired by the original game as opposed to the TF2 maps, which is a step in the right direction. We know that more TF1 maps are coming. A new titan is coming. I think even Frontier Defense is coming. Respawn is still tweaking balance, but trying to do so iteratively rather than just picking the most popular thing and nerfing it to oblivion every couple months.
I dunno... Not to be an apologist for Respawn, but frankly I still like what they are doing. I wish they maybe were spending a few more resources and attention on the game than they have been, but overall I'm quite happy with it and them. (Of course what I'd really like for Respawn to do is build a new single player and/or coop campaign and sell it as DLC. It could be shorter than the Jack/BT campaign. Hopefully it would make use of more tactical abilities as well, particularly the grapple. I wanted to play with that in single player and never got to.) And of course everyone wants to high five MRVN. ;p
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Post by godzilla on Apr 27, 2017 16:22:39 GMT -5
A lot of the TF1 competitive veterans, Frothy included, never really liked TF2 because it wasn't the game they wanted to play. From what I've read, their complaints have to do with simplified maps with less parkour opportunities, boosts, OP tacticals (Phase Shift, Pulse Blade) and the effectiveness of a defensive gameplay style.
Plus there's the general disappointment within the community about Respawn's poor post-launch support. I feel like Respawn had more plans for DLC but TF2 didn't sell well, so they scaled those back to leave a skeleton team working on TF2 content with the rest of the studio working on the Star Wars project.
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Post by Pegasus Actual on Apr 27, 2017 17:41:24 GMT -5
Well, you want to see a sequel build on what's good in the original. And they kind of failed at that. The core of Titanfall was pilot movement married with big death machine combat. In the sequel the 'effectiveness of defensive gameplay style' is way too strong. It cripples one of the core appeals. I think the Titan combat fared a little better, but I wouldn't say it's better than the original there either. The main way I lose a fight in LTS is because some idiot teammate got rolled over and all of a sudden I'm getting flanked by some dude with full health and a core ability. It gets tedious when your fate is so far out of your control. The original had much better maps, and more of them. A better aesthetic too for that matter. As for post-release content, I don't know if they cut the team back, from what I've seen they'd dispute that. 6 months for the first full size brand new map is definitely a blunder though. As was launching without Frontier Defense. Good post-launch support can grow the game and sell more copies, look at Siege, which almost felt dead on arrival back in Dec 2015 when it launched:  They got off to kind of a slow start with their DLC, with delays, but at least they had a real plan that they shared. Their monetization policy with the 7 day access to new operators was really on point as well. Or maybe look at how much of the list you have to pull to see Titanfall 2:  There it is! Hiding between.. Battlefield 4... and Black Ops 1. Well at least it's not behind all three Black Ops games in addition to Infinite Warfare. The original Titanfall apparently had a content problem, but at about 7 months post launch I think, it had 9 DLC maps in addition to the original 15? I feel for Respawn because there was so little wrong with that game yet the players didn't stick around. And by the time Destiny came out it was completely cannibalized. I get why someone would play Destiny over Titanfall. The loot and weekly activities keep you coming back so you don't miss out. It's got that itch that you could be improving your character at all times. But why the fuck anyone would play COD over Titanfall is beyond me. So they made a bunch of changes. That weren't really for the better. And in the end, didn't help. So I don't know what to say. Hopefully they get a crack at Titanfall 3 and figure it out for real. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 27, 2017 17:51:21 GMT -5
I definitely agree on the maps. It's still possible to run fast parkour routes, but you have to be going very fast and you have fewer opportunities to change your route without having to drop to the ground and bunny hop for an extended distance. Honestly if you can't air strafe you can't really maintain high speed routes for very long on most maps and you certainly can't change up your routes as dynamically. I really, really, really dislike that about the TF2 maps compared to TF1. In TF1 I learned how to bunny hop but never really learned air strafing and didn't really need to. I could parkour around the maps quite well using the wall running intuitively rather than having to train myself to stop pushing forward and do the awkward air strafing maneuver. That's why I'm really happy every time they bring a TF1 map into the game, but I really wish they would just do literally all of them or at least do them faster than one every few months.
It's just so much bleeehhhhhh... The TF1 maps were excellent. They had a nice mix of interior and exterior spaces, enough wall runnable walls to dynamically parkour around, interesting layoutes and routes, and a lot of verticality. TF2 comes along with blandly laid out 3 lane maps that are mostly open exteriors with only small interior spaces and muted verticality. In TF1 the maps worked well for both pilots and titans, but in TF2 it feels like the maps are really made for the titans and pilots are almost an afterthought with everything so spread out it barely works for pilots. So yeah... totally there with Frothy on the maps
At any rate I was just wondering, because it seems like Frothy was more or less okay with the game for a most of his videos but has just gotten really negative lately. Not that his complaints aren't valid, it just makes the videos far less enjoyable to watch when nearly every other sentence is yet another complaint or back handed compliment. I'm watching trying to enjoy and get excited about the new patch and he's just sucking the life out of it. heh
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 27, 2017 17:58:01 GMT -5
I'm fairly certain they will do a Titanfall 3... which I very much hope will take what worked well from Titanfall 2 but otherwise harken back more towards Titanfall 1 in many ways.
I guess the first game had some DLC issues, but honestly the DLC was really excellent for that game. All of the maps were pretty damned excellent, in fact I felt like they only got better at making them over time. I don't know why they decided to completely toss that out the window and do something pretty much totally different for TF2. The maps are easily my least favorite thing about TF2, which has not been helped by the lackluster post launch support.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 28, 2017 14:39:12 GMT -5
Come to think of it after Titanfall CoD games became more like Titanfall in some ways, while TF2 became more like CoD in some ways. Maybe with CoD going back to "boots on the ground" WWII that will hopefully mean TF3 will double down on boots off the ground and they'll try doing their own thing more like they did in TF1 than trying to use old formulas...
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Apr 29, 2017 22:52:03 GMT -5
Okay I oficially am in love with the new map Glitch. It's just... delicious. It definitely still is a 3 lane, at least it is for the titans, but for pilots it is a glorious playground of wallrunning goodness. I have even enjoyed pilot v pilot on that map and I hate pilot v pilot. heh heh So much fun and my mediocre wallrunning is still good enough to pull off some sick moves so I'm happy! Now somebody go convince Respawn to add more wallrun access to the regular TF2 maps plz. ;3
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 1, 2017 6:54:49 GMT -5
I don't really see how TF2 looks more like COD compared to TF1. What do you mean?
Glitch is awesome! that map is lovely. It does show me how bad I am at shooting while jumping though...
Everytime I start Titanfall I seriously question myself why I even play other games for PvP gameplay.... This is just better in every way. (full stack Overwatch comes close but that's it)
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 1, 2017 8:49:50 GMT -5
Mainly with they way they tried to push TF2 pilot combat more into gun battles by making it harder to parkour everywhere, reducing verticality, making all the maps CoD style 3 lane maps, slightly faster average TTK, and by vastly strengthening defensive gameplay. You had arc mines and satchels in TF1 but little else that didn't simply perform better if you were racing around the map ganking people from the skies. In TF2 the mines are gone but you still have the satchels plus, A-Wall, pilot turrets, titan turrets, hard cover, and the Devotion is super strong as well. As a whole that makes for more ground potatoes and campers.
There's also fewer AI's, no zip lines in vanilla TF2 maps (although BO1 did zip lines before TF1 did...), and no map turrets. Those things just make the game a bit more dull and hence CoDlike in that regard. Glad to see some zip lines in glitch for a change, although they are only used for the spawns.
I'm not great at shooting while jumping, but do passibly. I finally tried to buckle down and learn to air strafe. I decided try hold to crouch and that didn't work well with claw grip... It's entirely possible to hold circle with my knuckle and still hit X with my finger tip, but it's very awkward. Trying to jump then crouch each time is also kinda awkward with toggle so I decided to swap my crouch and tactical buttons. That actually works pretty well and I was finally able to start practicing some doughnuts and skiing around with it. I didn't realize holding crouch would cancel a wallrun immediately, though. Since I've been using toggle crouch I thought going into a wallrun would just cancel the crouch like it does in toggle, but if you're holding it you just drop off the wall. It seems like when you do that you often... but not quite always... lose your momentum as well. Now that I've swapped the buttons I'll have to experiment to see if I prefer toggle or hold. Holding makes the slide hopping part super easy, but I'll have to be careful to release it on wallruns. Toggle could remedy that, but would require just a little more effort to maintain the slide hopping... I'm not sure which I'll prefer... probably hold. It should be easy to just release crouch when I'm close to a wall. I only need to hold it just before I hit the ground anyway.
I have to say once I experimented a little I don't think this whole air strafe thing is nearly as hard as I thought, though it really took some work to make my brain do everything in the right order. lol I don't know why it was such a mental hurdle for me.
I had to break it down into different parts. First I had to make myself just slide hop in a strait line without pressing forward and get the sequence right. That's when I decided to play at changing the controls to see if I could make it easier. I have no doubt that it's possible to do with the default controls and a claw grip, but it was difficult enough that it would require too much concentration to maintain it so it wouldn't go well in combat. Only after that did I start experimenting with trying to actually air strafe in a circle. That was tough too, but I forced myself to just push the left stick all the way and not worry about whether I was slowly aiming left or not I just needed to turn left (or right) enough to try to make a circle without hitting walls not trying to make any drastically fast turns. Once I separated the strafing and aiming in my head and just assumed I'd just hope to get some strafing in when I happened to turn my aim I was much better.
To put it another way, I just focused on using my aim to steer. Rather than trying to coordinate both sticks at the same time I just aimed to steer and I'd swap directions on my left stick based on whichever way I happened to be turning. Suddenly it just kinda clicked and I was skiing across the map. I'm still bad enough to screw up here and there and lose my momentum, but I can actually do it! yay Honestly it's weird how it actually does kinda feel like you're skiing around. It's like some odd horizontal version of the tribes skiing instead of using hills, although... if TF2 had hills I bet you could use them to some degree. Anyway, good times.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on May 2, 2017 3:04:24 GMT -5
Half of that is just things you (and me!) don't like in TF2, but don't perse resemble COD. There is less Swiss cheese maps compared to TF1, but hardly any of them are three lanes for pilots. They are for titans, but that holds true for TF1 as well. I can see your point though, the amp wall, the reduced accuracy in air, the turrets, smaller maps. It plays more defensively. But I think "became more like COD" is kind of far fetched. They just offered a second kind of viable play style (mobility still reigns supreme though) and increased the skill needed for mobility. Air strafing is impossible for me, I can't for the love of god stop holding forward on my left stick... Yeah I am a scrub  I tried what you did, I might have to try it again one time. p.s. the TTK didn't really change, opposed to what everyone says on reddit. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 2, 2017 15:30:17 GMT -5
Mainly what I meant by CoD-like is pushing gunfights more than high movement ambush and aerial dogfighting. They made it much harder to maintain aerial parkour on most of the maps which usually results in at least one or both of the combatants dropping to the ground and only using parkour in bursts at that point. In the first game, (and now on Glitch) it's easier to fight without losing your route and you can get some incredible mid air fights going that way. The vanilla TF2 maps are less 3 way for pilots than titans, but still choke you down to fewer routes than the original game did. I believe Respawn even came out and said that they were trying to create choke points and push the gunplay with the change in map design.
Largely I'm still happy with the game and quite enjoy it. It's mostly that the first game had more freedom of movement and it actually had more style and immersion, but that's not something I've mentioned in this thread.
Briefly on style and immersion... In TF2 none of the battles feel like IMC vs Malitia anymore... in fact it's pretty irrelevant because pilots all look the same on both sides and only look different based on camo and tactical. That's why the orange enemy glow is a pretty damn important. On top of that there's fewer things (read none in vanilla maps) to interact with in the map, the skyboxes are way more bland and lifeless, and there's fewer AI's roaming about which also have been dumbed down quite a bit. Then there's selecting your faction which means that everybody is potentially fighting for anybody else even if they're on the same team in the same drop ship with you. Basically they have turned multiplayer into just a combat sandbox and who's fighting who is pretty much completely irrelevant now. This is approximately exactly the opposite of what I had hoped for. I rather liked having the very distinct factions in TF1 and actually hoped that the Malitia would develop their own titans so that we could have a distinction there as well. It seems pretty damned incredulous to me that both sides all use exactly the same hardware. It's silly enough to think they would use the same guns let alone giant robots. Personally I'd prefer they just extended the faction skinning like they did for player models. You could have your IMC Atlas and your Malitia Atlas, they would be the same class of titan and functionally identical, but would be visually distinct. In this game you kinda lose the scrappy rag tag feel of the Malitia and the special op storm trooperness of the IMC. Everything in TF2 gets homogenized. Even the maps all look like they happen on the same planet, while TF1 definitely had battles on different worlds. I miss that.
I want some amazing skyboxes with gas giants, rings, moons, nebulae, and all sorts of cool stuff. I'd love a battle on the back of a huge ship like that mission in single player. I'd actually like to have some of the cinematics back from the TF1 campaign. The campaign was kinda cool, it was just that it kinda got in the way and didn't offer anything new. You couldn't actually do anything during a battle it was just regular attrition with distracting radio chatter. In my opinion the problem with campaign was that it didn't go far enough. There should have been more to it, maybe something happens in the middle of the match that changes the flow of everything, maybe you can actually take over locations and push territory like the big battlefield battles... something. But at the very least the intro sequences were pretty damn cool, especially the one where you drop from orbit. That was epic! TF1 fellt grand and epic like that. TF2 feels kinda small. At least the multiplayer does. Single player I would say definitely has a lot more to offer there, but it doesn't really translate to the multiplayer.
Okay not that brief, but I tried. ;p
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Post by godzilla on May 3, 2017 14:44:27 GMT -5
I'm not great at shooting while jumping, but do passibly. I finally tried to buckle down and learn to air strafe. I decided try hold to crouch and that didn't work well with claw grip... It's entirely possible to hold circle with my knuckle and still hit X with my finger tip, but it's very awkward. Trying to jump then crouch each time is also kinda awkward with toggle so I decided to swap my crouch and tactical buttons. That actually works pretty well and I was finally able to start practicing some doughnuts and skiing around with it. I didn't realize holding crouch would cancel a wallrun immediately, though. Since I've been using toggle crouch I thought going into a wallrun would just cancel the crouch like it does in toggle, but if you're holding it you just drop off the wall. It seems like when you do that you often... but not quite always... lose your momentum as well. Now that I've swapped the buttons I'll have to experiment to see if I prefer toggle or hold. Holding makes the slide hopping part super easy, but I'll have to be careful to release it on wallruns. Toggle could remedy that, but would require just a little more effort to maintain the slide hopping... I'm not sure which I'll prefer... probably hold. It should be easy to just release crouch when I'm close to a wall. I only need to hold it just before I hit the ground anyway. Bumper Jumper should frankly be the default control scheme, and Evolved is best if you want to slide-hop on a normal controller. Bumper Jumper just switches your tactical and jump buttons, and Evolved adds to Bumper Jumper by swapping melee for slide/crouch. Both these control schemes let you keep both thumbs on the sticks while jumping/wallrunning without a pro controller. Evolved's downside is that you're giving up the ability to panic punch, which is significant given that melee in this game is MW2 Commando-bad. I can do a crummy slide-hop, but I've never found it essential on console. Plus I'll probably get owned by Timmy No Thumbs who's tactical loitering with a Devotion and is able to easily track my movement due to the insane auto-aim for ARs/LMGs. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 3, 2017 21:23:20 GMT -5
Eh... I've been using claw grip so long it would throw me completely off my game if I moved the jump button to a shoulder button... (Jump is almost always the same button in nearly every game, we're talking about having to unlearn a shit ton of habits there.) It's safer to just do custom and move crouch instead.
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I tried what you did, I might have to try it again one time. 