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Post by ssog on Apr 27, 2009 17:43:25 GMT -5
Betty's on a shotgun class? That is just G@y, like the silenced MP 40/camo/betty class some campers use... Those peaple should just go to the shop and buy another game and go and FFFF up that one. Butt well, maybe you use your betty's for another purpose, so please explain yourself, how do you use betty's on a shotgun class? You can use Betties on any class. Betties have a wide range of uses. Use #1 (aka the "Camper Betty")- go into a corner, betty up one entrance, train your gun on another entrance, camp. If your gun is a sniper rifle, replace "camp" with "snipe". Use #2 (aka the "Flanker Betty")- try to flank the enemy. In the process of flanking, drop some betties as you go as a counter-flanking measure to ensure that no enemy winds up flanking you. Use #3 (aka the "Run-n-Gun Betty")- drop some betties in some high traffic areas while you're running and gunning. Free kills! Use #4 (aka the "Objective Betty")- in objective gametypes, drop some betties at/near the objective (or on a key route to the objective) and then go play however you feel like playing. Use #5 (aka "Betty Scouting")- Put betties at a key position as a means of detecting enemy movements. When the betty goes off, you know enemies are moving through a certain strategic location (since most players generally move in groups, even if they're loose groups). Worked better with Claymores because you could hear your claymores "click" no matter where you were on the map (meaning even if the claymore didn't kill, you still knew it went off). Use #6 (aka "Decoy Betties")- If you know the other team is running bomb squad, drop some betties and then go somewhere nearby where you can watch the betty. When an enemy wanders by, he'll see the betty and stop to defuse it. That's when you shoot him in the back. Use #7 (aka the "WTF Betty")- put a betty in unconventional locations (in open fields hiding in the grass, next to unoccupied tanks, etc). Towards the end of the match, watch as your opponent starts getting jumpy, not knowing where the next betty is going to be. Most effective when you can get an entire team in on the action, although it generally leads to people switching over to Bomb Squad (which sets up #6 very nicely). Use #8 (aka the "Deja Vu Betty")- plant one of your betties, but not the other. Wait until the first betty gets a kill, then plant your second betty in the exact same location. Watch as the SAME PERSON inevitably comes back for revenge, assumes that the location is betty-free, and dies in the exact same way to the exact same betty. Use #9 (aka the "Revenge Betty")- place a betty BEHIND you. The enemy kills you, runs past your body thinking everything is clear, and then dies to your betty. Only works in gametypes where you don't respawn immediately (HC, HQ, S&D, Sabo, etc). Betties are incredible tools. I use Betties and Claymores on every single class I create (except for gripped LMGs in CoD4). Doesn't matter what guns you have or what your playstyle is, there's always some way to use them to your advantage. They're essentially just free kills, and if you get good enough at planting them that you have a 50% success rate you're pretty much guaranteed a positive k/d ratio.
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qupie
True Bro
Posts: 12,400
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Post by qupie on Apr 27, 2009 21:01:43 GMT -5
Well, you have just proved my point...
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Post by ssog on Apr 28, 2009 0:51:09 GMT -5
Well, you have just proved my point... What point was that? That using an incredible strategic tool with a shotgun is homosexual, or that I should FFFF up another game?
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qupie
True Bro
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Post by qupie on Apr 28, 2009 16:46:31 GMT -5
That betty's are to good (overpowerd), and therefore I don't think you should use them on EVERY class... I know they are good, that is why I complain. I understand the tactical usage of it, and I like that. That is why I think they should mostly be used by snipers or riflemen. Use 1,3,8,9 are in my oppinion really just cheap kills and have nothing to do with skill or tactical vieuw over the game.
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Post by ssog on Apr 28, 2009 21:19:49 GMT -5
That betty's are to good (overpowerd), and therefore I don't think you should use them on EVERY class... I know they are good, that is why I complain. I understand the tactical usage of it, and I like that. That is why I think they should mostly be used by snipers or riflemen. Use 1,3,8,9 are in my oppinion really just cheap kills and have nothing to do with skill or tactical vieuw over the game. I don't get it. They're TOO GOOD, so you shouldn't use them? The point of the game is to kill and not be killed in return- you should use any tools that help you achieve that goal. I mean, would you put Shades on some of your classes just because Stopping Power is TOO GOOD? And besides, if your problem with Betties is that they're overpowered, then what's your problem with using Betties on a Shotgun class? If you were fine with people using Betties with *ANY* gun, it should be with the most severely underpowered guns in the entire game. I also disagree with your assuming several betty tactics have nothing to do with skill or tactics. For instance, #1- planting Betties successfully is a SKILL- you have to place it in a location where it's difficult to see or defuse, but still very much in the way of traffic. It's also very TACTICAL- you have to choose a strategic location that will see traffic, but not so much traffic that your single betty is just a drop in the bucket. #3 is also both a skill and a tactic- a skill in that you still have to select an ideal betty location if you ever want any kills, and a tactic in that you chose to forego a second frag, satchels, a bazooka, 2 extra specials, extra ammo, a n00b t00b, a grip, and the ability to see enemy betties in exchange for those free kills. It's a TACTICAL choice as to whether the betties will net you more kills than the assorted other explosives you're passing up, and whether those extra kills will offset the extra deaths you'll incur since you can't take out tanks and can't see enemy betties. #9 could be seen as a "cheap" kill, but I'd argue that it's still both skillful and tactical- betty placement would be harder on #9 than on any other number, and the tactical element is the opportunity cost- by putting the betty BEHIND you, you're eschewing the ability to put that betty IN FRONT of you, where it'll do more to protect you, instead. And as for #8- that's the most skillful and tactical usage of betties on the board. Once again, there's the opportunity cost of keeping one of your betties undeployed, and it's the only method where you're actually warning the enemy beforehand EXACTLY where you like to place your betties. Betties, like any other element in the game, require a lot of skill. That's why some people get twice as many kills per plant as others. You might die a lot to betties and think that the person planting them has no skill, but in reality the betties you keep running into are the ones that were skillfully planted in the first place.
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qupie
True Bro
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Post by qupie on Apr 29, 2009 5:41:22 GMT -5
Well I allmost never run into betty's anymore (bomb squad, and a new 6th sence (was for claymore's once ^_^) . But the fact that you say #1 is skillful, well there the argument just ends for me. tactical loitering CAN be skillfull, but it is more just boring and not fair IMO. If you have more skills you will be better at tactical loitering, but really every idiot can get kills with tactical loitering and it just screws up the game. That is the reason why I don't like shotguns with betty's like I said. I just hate the fact that some peaple get 2 kills (mostly from my team, not me) from betty's, die again and get 2 new one's. The often don't even have the skill to aim... THAT is what this game is about, and betty's should be support, like you tried to explain on SOME numbers. But others are just funny to do a couple of times. But hey, if you don't think tactical loitering is wrong, I dont think this argument is going anywhere and I am not looking for a fight here...
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Post by ssog on Apr 30, 2009 20:19:38 GMT -5
Well I allmost never run into betty's anymore (bomb squad, and a new 6th sence (was for claymore's once ^_^) . But the fact that you say #1 is skillful, well there the argument just ends for me. tactical loitering CAN be skillfull, but it is more just boring and not fair IMO. tactical loitering's perfectly fair. All players have an equal opportunity to camp- seems like the definition of fair, to me. Just like every gun and every perk is also fair, since everyone has equal access to them. If it's better than what you're doing, then do it. If it's better than what you're using, then use it. If they made it so that only the Russian side could use Stopping Power, or only the Japanese side could camp, then that would be unfair. But they didn't. So it isn't. Besides, the camper has advantages over the run-and-gunners, but the run-and-gunners have advantages over the campers thanks to anti-lag. Players are actually ahead of where their models appear, meaning a run and gunner can round the corner and take a shot before the camper ever sees his in-game avatar. Thanks to anti-lag, every heads-up confrontation strongly favors the party that is moving over the party that is stationary. And yes, that's fair, too, because the camper has just as much opportunity to run-and-gun. Furthermore, tactical loitering hardly requires "no skill", too- it takes tactical thinking and in the end, it still takes execution. An unskilled player who camps is going to have a negative k/d. A skilled player who camps is going to have a positive k/d. An unskilled player who runs will have a negative k/d. A skilled player who camps will have a positive k/d. If an unskilled player dies a lot and decides to camp in order to keep his deaths down, then I'd say he's pretty smart and I would be glad if he was on my team, because nothing sucks more than one person single-handedly losing a game of TDM by racking up a -20 k/d spread because they refuse to use their brain and stop being target practice.
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Post by robesh on May 3, 2009 11:15:21 GMT -5
Betty's on a shotgun class? That is just G@y, like the silenced MP 40/camo/betty class some campers use... Those peaple should just go to the shop and buy another game and go and FFFF up that one. Butt well, maybe you use your betty's for another purpose, so please explain yourself, how do you use betty's on a shotgun class? Bouncing Betty's are a very useful offensive weapon, as long as the enemy doesn't have Bomb Squad. Shotgun tactics usually involve rushing in a room/building and clearing it out. Putting Betty's by the exits will usually guarantee a kill if you happen to lose the fight, and they try to run out of that particular building. But the way I use Shotguns is completely different. I use shotguns in Search and Destroy, where almost any class benefits from BB's/Claymores.
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qupie
True Bro
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Post by qupie on May 3, 2009 12:30:03 GMT -5
yeah that sounds alot better that is why I typed the last line
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VonKickass
Bro
War is not about how many you kill, its how long you live.
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Post by VonKickass on May 22, 2009 17:37:06 GMT -5
Sry but back to cod4.... Have you noticed that many shotgunners use Juggernaut to counter sleight of hand users? Using juggernout isn't my thing, I just can't see the benefits of having that perk. This why I've tryed SP instead of SoH. I've always had Sleight of hand with my shotty until recently. Now I've started to dislike SoH for couple of reasons: Having sleight of hand means more shooting and reloading. It's just waisting bullets. Stopping power slightly increases the reach of the gun, and with steady aim it is "unreachable" to other shotguns. SoH also means that the gun doesnt kill every time you press the trigger, ofcoure with SP kill isn't 100% sure either. More than with SoH still. Reloading itself isn't that slow considering that there is only room for four shots. There is always time to reaload atleast one shot into the gun. With the sneezepump I still prefer SoH over SP for having that enormous mag. For the closing words, think this: the first shot counts the most, if it fails to kill your enemy, you're most likely to be found dead. With SP you have an greater advantage over whoever is in front, Juggernoob or Hands of Wanker. PS: Sorry for my bad english.
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Post by ssog on Jun 4, 2009 0:50:05 GMT -5
Sry but back to cod4.... Have you noticed that many shotgunners use Juggernaut to counter sleight of hand users? Using juggernout isn't my thing, I just can't see the benefits of having that perk. This why I've tryed SP instead of SoH. I've always had Sleight of hand with my shotty until recently. Now I've started to dislike SoH for couple of reasons: Having sleight of hand means more shooting and reloading. It's just waisting bullets. Stopping power slightly increases the reach of the gun, and with steady aim it is "unreachable" to other shotguns. SoH also means that the gun doesnt kill every time you press the trigger, ofcoure with SP kill isn't 100% sure either. More than with SoH still. Reloading itself isn't that slow considering that there is only room for four shots. There is always time to reaload atleast one shot into the gun. With the sneezepump I still prefer SoH over SP for having that enormous mag. For the closing words, think this: the first shot counts the most, if it fails to kill your enemy, you're most likely to be found dead. With SP you have an greater advantage over whoever is in front, Juggernoob or Hands of Wanker. PS: Sorry for my bad english. In my second post on this page I crunched the numbers on how many pellets are required to kill with and without Stopping Power with the Shotguns in WaW. Obviously the numbers will be slightly different in CoD4, but the general trends should remain the same. Essentially, Stopping Power increases the range at which a shot will kill by... about 50 inches. That's it. You're trading your Perk2, generally considered the most valuable perk in the game, for an extra FIFTY INCHES of killing range. You'd be far better off burning that perk on Double Tap, Sleight of Hand, Juggernaut, UAV Jammer, or Overkill.
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