Re: Black Ops 2 Weapons breakdown. Is it legit? « Reply #32 on Nov 12, 2012, 5:11pm »
Haha, yeah the M60 comparison may be a bit stretched as that gun is not competitive on ADS time (even with QD), kicks like a mule, handles like a Buick, and has a brick wall where the gun sites are supposed to be.
Agreed that missing shots, which I've done once or twice, will not result in good outcomes.
Haha, yeah the M60 comparison may be a bit stretched as that gun is not competitive on ADS time (even with QD), kicks like a mule, handles like a Buick, and has a brick wall where the gun sites are supposed to be.
Agreed that missing shots, which I've done once or twice, will not result in good outcomes.
That's why I compared the M60 to other LMGs, which handle equally badly. Except for the sights. M60 sights are pretty bad.
Re: Black Ops 2 Weapons breakdown. Is it legit? « Reply #36 on Nov 12, 2012, 5:30pm »
Hi everyone,
My brother and I are the ones who created that spreadsheet and the weapon ADS recoil video. We spent the last 4 days tirelessly counting frame values and testing with 99% accuracy in our results. To answer some questions:
1. The units used for range are arbitrary units as given by the FHJ-18. This is the only way we could obtain a 99% accurate measure for range. You can convert the units to meters by dividing by 3.8. (you can verify by using the Millimeter Scanner)
2. @ Mousy The Five-Seven DOES have a high damage range of 8.
3. All Reload, Add, ADS times and Rate of Fire values were determined by recording gameplay at 59.94fps, using a frame-accurate decoder (DSS2) to count the number of frames for each respective value and convert the result into a usable unit (seconds).
4. An interesting observation - Damage dropoff in this game is NOT linear. Rather, Dropoffs occur at discrete intervals.
5. Movement speeds are 100% accurate. Knife, Pistols, SMG and Shotguns all have the same movement speed. Sprint time was NOT tested.
6. RPM for FAL/SMR are without select fire
7. Max/Min damage values were determined using deductive reasoning + process of elimination by utilizing the information on the number of bullets required to kill at HP values ranging between 35-200% (a long process!)
My brother and I are the ones who created that spreadsheet and the weapon ADS recoil video. We spent the last 4 days tirelessly counting frame values and testing with 99% accuracy in our results. To answer some questions:
1. The units used for range are arbitrary units as given by the FHJ-18. This is the only way we could obtain a 99% accurate measure for range. You can convert the units to meters by dividing by 3.8. (you can verify by using the Millimeter Scanner)
2. @ Mousy The Five-Seven DOES have a high damage range of 8.
3. All Reload, Add, ADS times and Rate of Fire values were determined by recording gameplay at 59.94fps, using a frame-accurate decoder (DSS2) to count the number of frames for each respective value and convert the result into a usable unit (seconds).
4. An interesting observation - Damage dropoff in this game is NOT linear. Rather, Dropoffs occur at discrete intervals.
5. Movement speeds are 100% accurate. Knife, Pistols, SMG and Shotguns all have the same movement speed. Sprint time was NOT tested.
6. RPM for FAL/SMR are without select fire
7. Max/Min damage values were determined using deductive reasoning + process of elimination by utilizing the information on the number of bullets required to kill at HP values ranging between 35-200% (a long process!)
First of all, great job. Have you two considered testing the RPM values of the semi and burst weapons with Select Fire on full auto? Curious to see what the M8/SWAT/Chicom fire at in full auto mode.
First of all, great job. Have you two considered testing the RPM values of the semi and burst weapons with Select Fire on full auto? Curious to see what the M8/SWAT/Chicom fire at in full auto mode.
I just can't justify the Vector over the MP7. I mean, what's the point? :|
MP7 has fastest reload times, a slightly larger mag size, and more range than the Vector. Vector has better recoil, faster add times, and the second fastest reload time out of all smgs(except reload empty).
PDW57 VS MSMC: PDW57 has a larger mag size, faster raise+drop times, and a faster knife speed, while MSMC has more range, better recoil, and faster reload times.
My brother and I are the ones who created that spreadsheet and the weapon ADS recoil video. We spent the last 4 days tirelessly counting frame values and testing with 99% accuracy in our results. To answer some questions:
1. The units used for range are arbitrary units as given by the FHJ-18. This is the only way we could obtain a 99% accurate measure for range. You can convert the units to meters by dividing by 3.8. (you can verify by using the Millimeter Scanner)
2. @ Mousy The Five-Seven DOES have a high damage range of 8.
3. All Reload, Add, ADS times and Rate of Fire values were determined by recording gameplay at 59.94fps, using a frame-accurate decoder (DSS2) to count the number of frames for each respective value and convert the result into a usable unit (seconds).
4. An interesting observation - Damage dropoff in this game is NOT linear. Rather, Dropoffs occur at discrete intervals.
5. Movement speeds are 100% accurate. Knife, Pistols, SMG and Shotguns all have the same movement speed. Sprint time was NOT tested.
6. RPM for FAL/SMR are without select fire
7. Max/Min damage values were determined using deductive reasoning + process of elimination by utilizing the information on the number of bullets required to kill at HP values ranging between 35-200% (a long process!)
FAL OSW having a higher damage at cqc than SMR, is very weird...
SMR has a longer 2 hit kill range, but still...
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2012, 6:19pm by arcanine2009 »
Re: Black Ops 2 Weapons breakdown. Is it legit? « Reply #46 on Nov 12, 2012, 6:44pm »
So lets see... The only thing SMR has over FAL OSW, is greater 2 hit kill range? While SMR has slower rpm time, ads time, reload times, raise+drop times, smaller mag size, higher recoil, AND a wider hip fire spread??
THE FAL OSW could have at least the same mag size and a wider hipfire spread than the SMR...
Joined: Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 554 Location: Vahn's right shoulder
Re: Black Ops 2 Weapons breakdown. Is it legit? « Reply #49 on Nov 12, 2012, 9:16pm »
I've played combat training extensively today with almost every weapon except the LMGs (on PC) and I must say, this chart appears very accurate to what I experienced. The game also does appear to be very carefully balanced. It's certainly not perfect yet, but I would say that compared to every other CoD on their launch days, this is by far the most balanced launch-day CoD.
and ZOMG all the pistols are awesome for once!!
A couple things I'd change:
- Increase the SCAR's range, or give it 25 min damage - Type 25 could use a little more recoil, as it currently dwarfs M27 - MP7 is a little too good - should have less range, or some others slightly nerf - Either the Chicom CQB needs a slight buff, or the Skorpion needs a slight nerf - The SMR needs a buff. The FAL may also be a little bit too good...
Even with that, this game is already much more balanced that MW3 after all 20 of its patches.
imrlybord7, could you point me to exx's testing on the SWAT 556 and SCAR? I kind of hope these stats for these 2 are incorrect, because once you put the full-auto on the SWAT 556 it pretty much makes the SCAR useless. In fact I'd call it the best assault rifle with full-auto. The problem is that full-auto does absolutely nothing for the SCAR, not even reduced recoil. Overall I'd say the SCAR just needs more range, or 25 min damage.
Joined: Dec 2010 Gender: Female Posts: 9,965 Location: aroo
Re: Black Ops 2 Weapons breakdown. Is it legit? « Reply #56 on Nov 12, 2012, 9:51pm »
well you see I don't play domination because tubes seriously ruin that gametype in mw2, since all the objectives are easy to cover and very much out in the open.
they're much less reliable in bomb oriented gametypes because of that slow ass reload and the fact that only one enemy has to work on the objective.
Re: Black Ops 2 Weapons breakdown. Is it legit? « Reply #58 on Nov 12, 2012, 10:01pm »
I used domination as an example, but I rarely play it. MW2 Demolition was my favorite gamemode of all time. But every game, I still watch killcams where some guy just sits in a corner, wasting time changing to the same class, not helping plant a bomb, and taking easy kills. When I see this, I die a little inside. In the 3 years since release, I haven't found a way to counter OMA Tubers. If you kill them, you are just helping them. They don't need to spend another 6 seconds changing classes. If you ignore them, they mortar your team. Its just not satisfying to n00bt00b people. I prefer having the most kills on my team by using the riot shield, or some other under-appreciated weapon. I just feel dirty if I win from tubing.
is this guy serious or just trolling? Are there really still people who think MW2 OMA tubes were a good thing?
Anyways, this is a BO2 thread, not a MW2 thread. And the tubes in BO2 are exactly the way they were in BO1.
Somewhat serious but mostly joking. they were no doubt a problem, but with a full team we found ways to deal with with tubers. Particularly in demolition, we'd try and secure a larger area before planting, so that those using grenade launchers would need to either expend the on a teammate (thus letting us plant/defuse) or just get plain shot. We'd also opt for more higher ground locations anyway, since they gave a huge advantage over everyone especially tubers, and MW2 was full of them.
Tubes were good....for killing a single person (and people bunched up like idiots but at that point you should be dying together anyway). But when playing against a team that actually is keeping track of who's dying, you're pretty much committing murder suicide. I can easily see why an uncoordinated team would have a problem.
I will never argue that they were balanced, but when my choices are "complain to the devs" and "come up with a counter strategy," well.....a lot of people opt for the former....it doesn't seem to be working.
I used domination as an example, but I rarely play it. MW2 Demolition was my favorite gamemode of all time. But every game, I still watch killcams where some guy just sits in a corner, wasting time changing to the same class, not helping plant a bomb, and taking easy kills. When I see this, I die a little inside. In the 3 years since release, I haven't found a way to counter OMA Tubers. If you kill them, you are just helping them. They don't need to spend another 6 seconds changing classes. If you ignore them, they mortar your team. Its just not satisfying to n00bt00b people. I prefer having the most kills on my team by using the riot shield, or some other under-appreciated weapon. I just feel dirty if I win from tubing.
And that's just it, it was good for k/d but gimped the player in plenty other ways that often go overlooked simply because it's the best mid-long range weapon in the game (for 1 on 1s at least). But uh....we always played for winning, cuz winning is fun to us. If you care about k/d or whatever, tubes will ruin your day.
EDIT: I should also mention I never played TDM either. My gametypes were pretty much Sabotage, Demolition, Snd (for fucking around when everyone's watching), and CTF (When it came up in team tac if we were playing that).
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