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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 30, 2012 14:13:36 GMT -5
Which has better recoil? I don't have select fire on the Chicom yet and since they have the same magazine capacity and ROF (when the Chicom is Full Auto'd) I was just wondering if it was worth getting.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2012 14:38:15 GMT -5
Which has better recoil? I don't have select fire on the Chicom yet and since they have the same magazine capacity and ROF (when the Chicom is Full Auto'd) I was just wondering if it was worth getting. Based on this thread: denkirson.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=nonsense&action=display&thread=5381 , putting Select Fire on Chicom is not a good idea as it will be turned into Vector + 1 wasted point. Chicom + RF is the best setup, gives you great TTKs.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Nov 30, 2012 14:39:29 GMT -5
Isnt RF crap?
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 30, 2012 14:41:06 GMT -5
I notice a substantial improvement in the Vector's recoil when I put a Grip on it. So the Full Auto'd Chicom costs the same number of points.
It would be nice if a topic I made stayed on topic, just once.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2012 14:41:45 GMT -5
On all other SMGs: yes Chicom on the other hand is born to be married with RF due to its burst nature.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2012 14:45:11 GMT -5
I notice a substantial improvement in the Vector's recoil when I put a Grip on it. So the Full Auto'd Chicom costs the same number of points. It would be nice if a topic I made stayed on topic, just once. Try it out then and see how it works for you. I can see that it could be more to your liking. I still feels that the strengths of Chicom lies in having RF + Burst to make it a high TTK "lightweight AR".
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Nov 30, 2012 14:51:14 GMT -5
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 30, 2012 14:57:27 GMT -5
They look pretty similar. I guess I'll just grind for the attachments and grab some extra challenge XP for this prestige since I'm not prestiging my guns.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 30, 2012 16:21:50 GMT -5
Better question: Vector Burst versus Chicom, both guns using macros to fire full auto.
FIGHT.
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moses
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Post by moses on Nov 30, 2012 23:38:58 GMT -5
Better question: Vector Burst versus Chicom, both guns using macros to fire full auto. FIGHT. The Chicom would shoot faster. Ranges are roughly even, better 4SK range for Vector but better 5SK range for Chicom. If the strategy guide is accurate, the Vector has slightly less recoil (though this could just be due to lower RoF), though the Chicom generally hits everything you intend to for the first few bursts anyway. I haven't tried it, but on paper, I'd give it to the Chicom just for shooting faster. Tell you what, though, I'll try the Vector + SF tonight a few games just to see.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 1, 2012 6:47:44 GMT -5
While I love the Chicom for its uniqueness, I can't help but feel as though it occupies an awkward space between the M8A1 and the B23R. It's something of a contradiction: a burst-fire weapon that seems to rely on spammability more than accuracy. Its only advantages versus the M8A1 lie in handling and hipfire... I've of the mindset that would much prefer an accurate burst weapon capable of one-bursting to dominate the middle range, and a traditional SMG (such as the *cough* Skorpion *cough*) for doing SMG stuff. I've experimented with several Chicom setups, and I can't help but feel that nothing really offers that much more benefit over the brutal simplicity of a Skorpion with a Laser Sight and a Suppressor, at least as far fulfilling the SMG role. (The Chicom is my Deadliest Weapon according to the game, though, unless the Skorpion's supplanted it.)
On-topic, I'd stick with the Vec.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 1, 2012 11:41:28 GMT -5
The Chicom is basically a slightly better Evo with a much higher execution requirement (and by extension, attention requirement). At present I'm inclined to say it's maybe a bit too high for how marginal the benefits are, especially considering Joe Public moves on as soon as he hears "burst fire."
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 1, 2012 12:11:55 GMT -5
While I love the Chicom for its uniqueness, I can't help but feel as though it occupies an awkward space between the M8A1 and the B23R. It's something of a contradiction: a burst-fire weapon that seems to rely on spammability more than accuracy. Its only advantages versus the M8A1 lie in handling and hipfire... I've of the mindset that would much prefer an accurate burst weapon capable of one-bursting to dominate the middle range, and a traditional SMG (such as the *cough* Skorpion *cough*) for doing SMG stuff. I've experimented with several Chicom setups, and I can't help but feel that nothing really offers that much more benefit over the brutal simplicity of a Skorpion with a Laser Sight and a Suppressor, at least as far fulfilling the SMG role. (The Chicom is my Deadliest Weapon according to the game, though, unless the Skorpion's supplanted it.) On-topic, I'd stick with the Vec. I have not used Chicom yet. It will be my last SMG to work on. I was told that it can be used as a light weight AR: vs. M8A1: SMG benefits (movement, ADS, hip fire, bigger mag, faster reload, etc) vs. B23R: better range, bigger mag, bigger zoom, etc vs. Vec: ability to use RF, faster TTK. So I believe that it does have its niche but as aids pointed out it has a much higher "execution requirement" with marginal benefits.
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moses
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Post by moses on Dec 1, 2012 14:30:31 GMT -5
Yeah, the Chicom slays with good accuracy and a working trigger finger, but without AR aim assist and ADS speed it's hard to use at longer range on console, since you have to keep adjusting slightly while firing. I imagine it's THE SMG on PC.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 1, 2012 16:06:22 GMT -5
@witty
Pretty much what aids^3 said.
Essentially, my experience has been that the Chicom generally underperforms vs. the M8A1 at any range that isn't extreme close quarters... where its burst quality can make it less favorable. Serial engagements are fine, but doubles can be quite a chore. The benefits of Rapidfire are dubious at best. If you're not allowing the burst-fire nature of the gun to conserve your ammo and improve your accuracy, you'll probs get more bang for your buck from the likes of the Skorp, and Rapidfire encourages unnecessary bursting.
I've got the most mileage from the Chicom with Quickdraw and a Suppressor. At longer engagement ranges, I found it better to track the target and place bursts carefully than to rely on sheer rate of fire from Rapidfire, and I don't think it's just me, but I find it to be more consistent at close range without RF. Without RF I can count on two burst kills pretty consistently in close quarters, but with I feel like I'm having to burst three times much more often.
Finally, if you just want a burst weapon for interiors and tight corridors, it only costs one point to add the B23R to any class, which for a secondary is super-competent. If you offered me either the Chicom or the B23R to take on three opposing players in a room who knew I was coming, I'd actually opt for the B23R.
Nonetheless, Chicom's a fantastic and interesting weapon that I'm glad it was included. Perhaps I just haven't configured an optimal class for it just yet.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 3, 2012 15:58:13 GMT -5
Zero IX, thanks for sharing your experiences. Over the weekend I played with M8A1, Chicom, and B23R. Compared to other weapons my performance is probably mediocre, but I really like these weapons due to the fun factor. My 2 cents: M8A1: Pros: a strong weapon across all ranges. One burst kill in close range, headshot machine (and as a result head glich er killer) for mid to long range Cons: both ammo per mag and total ammo run out too fast B23R: powerful CQC secondary. Great companion to primaries that are weak for CQC Chicom (without RF as I did not get that far on weapon leveling before prestiging): the firerate feels incredibly fast, most balanced SMG range wise. More of a fun weapon than a power weapon. I also like to use it for loadouts for which I need an SMG without attachments. If I were to use one keyword to describe each: M8A1 - powerful B23R - companion (to primary) Chicom - flexible
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bravo2zero
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Post by bravo2zero on Dec 3, 2012 16:06:20 GMT -5
I've just tried the Chicom, it was okay, but I don't care for its Irons and spamming the trigger takes a bit of getting used to. It was good from the hip with laser but I often lost out to any Remington shotty users. I've not got rapid fire or select fire yet but so far I can't see a reason to use it over the other SMG's.
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moses
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Post by moses on Dec 3, 2012 16:11:00 GMT -5
I've just tried the Chicom, it was okay, but I don't care for its Irons and spamming the trigger takes a bit of getting used to. It was good from the hip with laser but I often lost out to any Remington shotty users. I've not got rapid fire or select fire yet but so far I can't see a reason to use it over the other SMG's. I've been using the Chicom for about 10 hours in a row now on my quest to Diamond. Honestly, it slays when you get used to tapping while aiming, because of such little recoil. Don't even bother with Select Fire; I'm somewhat average at using a burst gun while run and gunning, but my performance went down the tube with the SF Chicom.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Dec 3, 2012 16:12:12 GMT -5
Chicom has more recoil than the Vector, its a pointless weapon.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 3, 2012 16:41:27 GMT -5
Chicom has more recoil than the Vector, its a pointless weapon. I assume you mean Chicom w/SF vs. Vector? Because without SF Chicom does not have more recoil and it has a higher fire rate:
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Post by seanbateman on Dec 4, 2012 5:26:01 GMT -5
I just don't understand the point of a burst weapon that is inaccurate and doesn't even have the ability to one burst. The gun is useless IMO.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 4, 2012 7:04:43 GMT -5
I just don't understand the point of a burst weapon that is inaccurate and doesn't even have the ability to one burst. The gun is useless IMO. The burst fire with no delay allows a player to control (and change) RoF on the fly. It allows you to balance ttk and recoil differently for different engagements. Previously in the series that was something that you only really got with semiautos. In this game Treyarch has developed that theme a little further. Aside from the Chicom you have the AN-94 with it's faster second shot, and that LMG with the faster some number of shots (HAMR I think? I honestly don't follow them much since they've been sad for the past couple years). It introduces a layer of decision making and execution to weapon archetypes that didn't have it before. This kind of dynamic is very familiar to anyone that plays competitive fighting games. Lots of developers are fond of making characters that are powerful "on paper" but require much tighter execution of inputs to realize their potential. The ultimate value of these characters in the metagame depends on how big the execution barrier is, and the payoff for getting through it. If a character is only a little harder to use at max potential and is way better than the alternatives he'll win tournaments. If there's another character that's only marginally worse but trivial to pilot, however, the execution character won't show up. I think in BO2 there is a bit of the second scenario going on. I think the Chicom would be getting a lot of love... if the Evo didn't exist. The Chicom has the same damage, same RoF, more range, more ammo, less recoil. On paper, it's pretty clearly better. You just have to hit the button at precise intervals to realize that potential. The Evo has no such requirement. Historically, the CoD community has favored (often erroneously in my opinion, but whatever) low execution weapons (MW3 MP7) over more powerful, execution intensive ones (MW3 MK14). I don't think any of Treyarch's new toys are powerful enough to change that trend, but we'll see. tl;dr not pointless, but a deliberate design decision.
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Dec 4, 2012 7:37:59 GMT -5
I hoping if Vondermort sees no-one is using it, it'll get the 1 burst kill (close up) buff it needs.
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moses
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Post by moses on Dec 4, 2012 9:43:57 GMT -5
I hoping if Vondermort sees no-one is using it, it'll get the 1 burst kill (close up) buff it needs. If it killed in one burst up close, it would be the most powerful gun in the game IMO.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Dec 4, 2012 11:08:11 GMT -5
@witty: Comparing the first 3 shots of one weapon to another being fired full auto isnt fair, so yes.
And good luck getting a mid-long range kill with the Chicom. Will need at least 15 bullets while you could just single fire the vector.
@aids: You know fully auto weapons can stop firing, correct? And the ammo waste incurred by using the Chicom is the real deal breaker.
Not sure what the point your post was, though. Of course harder to use weapons are supposed to be powerful; this isnt something crazy. It's why semi autos tend to suck - they are harder to use, yet dont [always] have the advantages to make them worthwhile.
Also, doesnt the Chicom have a .05s delay? That brings it down to 900RPM.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 4, 2012 11:21:38 GMT -5
Also, doesnt the Chicom have a .05s delay? That brings it down to 900RPM. If there is a delay, I did not feel it. It seems to me that I can pull the trigger as fast as my trigger finger allows me.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 4, 2012 11:40:11 GMT -5
Chicom has no delay. With a macro, you could fire it at 1250 RPM.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 4, 2012 12:53:53 GMT -5
Chicom has no delay. With a macro, you could fire it at 1250 RPM. Good to know. What about w/RF? 1500+?
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 4, 2012 13:38:24 GMT -5
1666 RPM. On PC. At a weird frame rate. It's more practically 1500 RPM.
(But the fire time is 0.036 s...which means the gun fires at 1200 RPM at 60 FPS. For console bros, using RF on the Chicom is a really bad idea.)
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 4, 2012 13:43:08 GMT -5
1666 RPM. On PC. At a weird frame rate. It's more practically 1500 RPM. (But the fire time is 0.036 s...which means the gun fires at 1200 RPM at 60 FPS. For console bros, using RF on the Chicom is a really bad idea.) Interesting. So you are saying RF does not do crap for Chicom on Console, as without RF it is already at the theoretical limit?
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