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Post by 3nder on Jul 21, 2012 13:21:52 GMT -5
Everyone seemed too chicken to do it, and it's one of the first things being done.
In the spirit of the "roles" we've been defining I'll put what I think the roles are/should be and someone more knowledgeable can correct as they see fit.
M4A1: Carbine. Short range, high fire rate specialist. Low kick to maintain long range effectiveness.
M16A4: Mid/Long specialist. Sacrifices fire rate to get all 3 bullets on target. 2 bursts at range.
Scar-L: Higher than average fire rate, more range than M4A1 but more recoil (still predictable). Fast reloads.
CM901: Fully automatic, low firerate, LONG RANGE. I'm talking barely less range than the MK. 20 round mag (just because I miss variety and this gun should reward and encourage patience). I hope that's not imbalanced since when the CM starts 4 shooting, the MK is still 2.
T95: High efficacy in close range for a burst fire weapon. HIgher fire rate than M16 but less reliable at range due to recoil and low damage.
G36C: Slightly less than M4 fire rate, 3-4 shots. Terrible irons and less predictable recoil keep it from doo-dooting on the M4.
ACR6.8: Medium-low recoil, average TTK times everywhere. Solid rifle. Less range than the AK. 29 dmg so it can't one shot in HC.
MK14: It's perfect. Long range, 2-3 shots.
AK-47: Less range and more recoil for less range than the CM but more than the other AR. Higher fire rate than CM but less than other ARs. Could consider swapping what I wrote here for the AK for the CM901 but ignore the 20 rd mag then.
FAD: *cough*skinitastheTARpleasegod*cough*: SMG/AR. values in-between SMG and AR for speed, hip fire, ADS. Lower reload time. Should have a SHORT 3HK zone to compete (like 300u). Low recoil.
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 13:26:33 GMT -5
My suggestions: M16A4: Increase rate of fire to 923 RPM CM901: Increase minimum damage to 30 Type 95: Reduce maximum damage to 45 and increase minimum damage to 25 ACR: Reduce minimum damage to 24 AK-47: Increase minimum damage to 30 and remove gunkick FAD: Reduce minimum damage to 20 and increase maximum damage to 42
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 14:00:06 GMT -5
The ACR can't just become a 3-5 gun. The M4 is at the moment more accurate, and has a higher rate of fire, and it's considered fairly underpowered. The slightly higher range will not make up for that. With Kick, the ACR is just as accurate as the M4A1. Also, its damage would still be high enough so one headshot reduces the amount of shots needed to kill by one (both at close and long range) and it's not hard because of the consistent upwards kick.
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 14:05:07 GMT -5
No, what I meant is that the ACR is just as accurate as the M4A1 - both with Kick.
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 14:18:57 GMT -5
Well, then what about a minimum damage of 25?
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 14:28:43 GMT -5
It's very easy to get headshots with the ACR, because of its consistent upwards kick. I'm sure it's one of the reasons. And because it also has the fastest reload in its class.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Jul 21, 2012 14:37:10 GMT -5
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Jul 21, 2012 14:56:27 GMT -5
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Jul 21, 2012 15:01:10 GMT -5
ACR range reduced to 600-1200, damage to 40-30 It niche is supposed to be long range accuracy, and it will still be so. Silencers will bring heavy mid-range penalty, however. MK14 Reduce max damage to 70 to not doo-doo all over Dragunov/RSASS G36C: Max damage changed to 42 M16A4: Minimum damage 30, increased rate of fire to 925rpm. M4: Reduce max range to 1300, increase min. damage to 24 FAD: More AR-SMG hybrid features, like faster moving speed, faster aim time on RDS/Holo and smaller hipspread. Type-95: Decrease 2hk range a LOT or make it a 42-24 damage with current range. SCAR-L: Increase Min. Damage to 24 CM901: Increase long range damage to 30, max range to 2000 AK-47: Increase long range damage to 30, reduce viewkick by 5 in all directions
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Post by 8bitasplode on Jul 21, 2012 16:04:18 GMT -5
ACR: Reduce minimum damage to 25 MK14: reduce minimum damage to 40 M16A4: increase RoF (if rapid fire actually increased recoil stats it would be a much more balanced attachment) FAD: Make it have a 0.2s ADS time regardless of attachments Type 95: Decrease RoF CM901: increase long range damage to 33 AK47: increase RoF to 750 RPM.
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 16:06:33 GMT -5
Why nerf the MK14? It's already at a big disadvantage because it's semi-automatic.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jul 21, 2012 16:07:36 GMT -5
I'd: 1) M4: increase ROF or range. 2) CM901: increase ROF or DMG, or reduce recoil 3) AK47 reduce recoil (gunkick) 4) buff FAD a bit, maybe 95 movement speed? 5) ... ofc, buff M16 6) SCAR-L ?? No idea ... Maybe increase ROF or centerspeed ..
no changes to Type95, MK14, ACR and G36C, they are good, the only 4 assault rifles I can use without feeling I am stupid ...
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Post by mmacola on Jul 21, 2012 16:09:27 GMT -5
I'd: 1) M4: increase ROF or range. 2) CM901: increase ROF or DMG, or reduce recoil 3) AK47 reduce recoil (gunkick) 4) buff FAD a bit, maybe 95 movement speed? 5) ... ofc, buff M16 6) SCAR-L ?? No idea ... Maybe increase ROF or centerspeed .. no changes to Type95, MK14, ACR and G36C, they are good. For god sake AK-47 gunkick is as low as every other ar
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 16:12:11 GMT -5
For god sake AK-47 gunkick is as low as every other ar No it isn't. It has very random gunkick.
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Post by 8bitasplode on Jul 21, 2012 16:13:53 GMT -5
Why nerf the MK14? It's already at a big disadvantage because it's semi-automatic. it's not a big nerf, just a reduction in its 2HK range. The whole point of the AK47 is that it's supposed to have lots of gunkick but also have a very quick TTK if you can manage its recoil. Making it 49-25 at 780 RPM would make it more like a higher damage, higher recoil G36C.
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Post by mmacola on Jul 21, 2012 16:14:32 GMT -5
How much is it then? I have at least 1000+ kills with it and the iron sights are always in synch with the hitmarkers
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Post by mmacola on Jul 21, 2012 16:16:47 GMT -5
Why nerf the MK14? It's already at a big disadvantage because it's semi-automatic. it's not a big nerf, just a reduction in its 2HK range. And It becomes long range ineffective (Anti-Air, Headshot wise)
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 16:16:54 GMT -5
Why nerf the MK14? It's already at a big disadvantage because it's semi-automatic. it's not a big nerf, just a reduction in its 2HK range. But it's completely unnecessary.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jul 21, 2012 16:23:38 GMT -5
MK14 needs no changes imo ...
I'd replace SCAR-L with another semi auto AR, 2HK across the map, no 1HK headshot, with pleasure ... unrealistic but whatever ...
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Post by mmacola on Jul 21, 2012 16:28:56 GMT -5
MK14 needs no changes imo ... I'd replace SCAR-L with another semi auto AR, 2HK across the map, no 1HK headshot, with pleasure ... unrealistic but whatever ... ACOG+Silencer dragunov? ;D
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Post by Lexapro on Jul 21, 2012 16:38:58 GMT -5
MK14 needs no changes imo ... I'd replace SCAR-L with another semi auto AR, 2HK across the map, no 1HK headshot, with pleasure ... unrealistic but whatever ... That might be nice for MW4 (I'd really love to see an HK 417 done well) but drastic changes for this game simply isn't in the cards. I'm of the mindset that the MK14 is perfect as is. Any changes would simply be meddling for meddlings sake. The SCAR-L and G36C are also balanced and don't need any changes. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Maybe if they gave the G36C better irons. The ones in COD4 were so much better, I don't know why they'd mess with a good thing.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Jul 21, 2012 16:47:51 GMT -5
MK14 needs no changes imo ... I'd replace SCAR-L with another semi auto AR, 2HK across the map, no 1HK headshot, with pleasure ... unrealistic but whatever ... ACOG+Silencer dragunov? ;D Dragunov is a sniper rifle, it has crap centerspeed and LOW practical ROF ( ~200 rpm on target or maybe less). I mean 600-700 rpm semi auto AR and decent iron sights. 2HK.
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 16:53:39 GMT -5
The ones in COD4 were so much better, I don't know why they'd mess with a good thing. I don't agree. In CoD4 I have to use a red dot sight, but in MW3 I have no problems using the iron sights.
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Post by Lexapro on Jul 21, 2012 17:16:44 GMT -5
The ones in COD4 were so much better, I don't know why they'd mess with a good thing. I don't agree. In CoD4 I have to use a red dot sight, but in MW3 I have no problems using the iron sights. Really? The sights are basically the same except that the MW3 version has a smaller front sight so you actually see the ring, which obstructs more of your view. In COD4, the ring of the front sight lines up almost perfectly with the hole of the rear sight so you don't see anything except the vertical bar in the middle. Too each his own I guess.
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Post by mmacola on Jul 21, 2012 17:49:13 GMT -5
It's easy to find pros and cons to each.
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 17:51:35 GMT -5
Yes, but in CoD4, the hole is very small so you see almost nothing around your iron sights, which is very bad for long ranges.
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Post by Tyzerra on Jul 21, 2012 17:52:10 GMT -5
Please can we all agree that no changes are needed to the M4, SCAR, G36 or MK14. It's a huge waste of time. Anyway, here's my views on the burst rifles:
M16A4: ~810-850 RPM. 45-25 damage with 1.3x chest multiplier gives 58.5-32.5 damage. This will allow kills up close with 2 chest shots but at range it will take 4 chest shots OR 2 chest+1 head (which will be likely due to recoil). This results in accuracy rewarding you a 1 burst kill at range.
Type 95: ~960-1000RPM. 42-20 damage with a 1.2 chest multiplier gives 50.4-24 damage. This will allow kills up close in 2 chest shots and at range it will take 5 chest shots or 3 chest+1 head. This way you'll always need 2 bursts at range, even if you get 2 head shots - which I doubt anyone will.
From here the Type 95 will keep you competitive on closer maps whereas the M16 will take the crown at range - both of them giving you a small fighting chance up close.
Scroll down a bit for my updated ideas!
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Post by Marvel4 on Jul 21, 2012 17:55:07 GMT -5
Two-hit kills are bad, unless your gun has high spread or recoil. Burst fire weapons should be good at long range, not close range like the Type 95.
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Post by Tyzerra on Jul 21, 2012 17:58:22 GMT -5
Okay, I'm happy with no 2 shot kills up close - but what if it's 1 chest+1 head for only the M16? I think the M16 deserves something along those lines for it's troubles. Either that or just lower it's recoil so it's not a pain in the ass. I'll re-edit my previous post and post it again... Keep me in check
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Post by mmacola on Jul 21, 2012 18:08:46 GMT -5
If you increase its long range damage to 30, it already becomes pretty good. 1700u of 3hk. Then you only have to increase rate of fire to kill in close range if the shooter is capable enough. 925 is equal to previous games so I don't think that fire rate would be a problem (considering the centerspeed is now 1450 instead of 1500)
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