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Post by soulindiablo on Nov 16, 2012 2:29:20 GMT -5
From personal experience (like that means anythings) the executioner is 10x the shotgun that the S12 will ever be. Being able to quickswitch and land 1hk shots a close range for 1 point is more than worth its own cost.
I tried using executioner with an attachment and thought why don't I just use an overkilled shotgun. Since I had already gold camo'd double prestiged the starting shotgun I went with the S12. That thing cannot kill even at point blank nevermind the fact that I contantly get 3-5 hitmarkers and have gotten 6-7 hitmarkers with no kill multiple times. I even threw in long barrel (3 points to run this piece of crap so far) and it still got hitmarkers like crazy.
Someone please tell me the redeeming quality of this thing considering you can use the executioner for 1 point as a secondary and a ksg/starting-shotty for your overkill needs/primary shotgun
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 16, 2012 4:31:48 GMT -5
Am I the only one who gets good results with the Saiga? I'll upload a game play tomorrow if theater mode decides to cooperate.
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Robospy
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Post by Robospy on Nov 16, 2012 5:36:26 GMT -5
I think it's good, it's much better for sustained fire than the pump actions. With ExMags, SoH and Long Barrel you can dish out decent sustained fire.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 19, 2012 23:28:56 GMT -5
Before I returned the game I did one last set of testing to see the one shot kill range using the 870 and ksg with the long barrel on both.
The 870 was able to one shot with some reliability out to 12-12.5 meters. Fucking awefull. The ksg was about 15 meters. Better but still pretty bad considering its a slug gun.
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 20, 2012 0:33:23 GMT -5
Before I returned the game I did one last set of testing to see the one shot kill range using the 870 and ksg with the long barrel on both. The 870 was able to one shot with some reliability out to 12-12.5 meters. Foxtrotting awefull. The ksg was about 15 meters. Better but still pretty bad considering its a slug gun. It gets worse, the KSG does 200 damage per slug. Man, that is some awful damage drop off.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 20, 2012 0:53:37 GMT -5
so the stakeout is the best shotty to use ? and how does ads/laser-hipfire work? better to ads?
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 20, 2012 0:55:45 GMT -5
so the stakeout is the best shotty to use ? and how does ads/laser-hipfire work? better to ads? In theory, the KSG is the best. The R870 is much easier to use and much less reliable. Always try to ADS. Laser hipfire could be much better.
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Post by unforgivenxile on Nov 20, 2012 3:18:48 GMT -5
All I want are the RANGE VALUES FOR THESE THINGS! I swear the S12 can consistantly one shot up until 5ish metres ADS, but anything past that I get 3-500 hitmarkers. Discrete damage drop off sounds about right.
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Post by corpsecreate on Nov 20, 2012 4:01:30 GMT -5
My apologies but me and Pwnsweets testing doesnt give 5 min damage for the S12/The other shotgun. We confirmed a min damage of 6. We triple checked this number and we are 100% certain the number is 6, how was a number of 5 found in this thread and was it before or after the first patch?
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 20, 2012 5:33:42 GMT -5
There is a file on PC that shows every damage dealt during a private match. Most likely before.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 20, 2012 9:03:53 GMT -5
corp why u no true bro how is the stake out less reliable?
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 20, 2012 9:21:46 GMT -5
how is the stake out less reliable? Because on a perfect connection, in the best situation possible, a perfect aimed shot may not kill. The KSG will.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 20, 2012 11:26:36 GMT -5
Ksg kills to the toe at 15 meters. The 870 kills when you aim at the widest point of the chest out to 12 meters. That 12 meter one shot kill only happens if you aim directly at the heart. Its a smaller kill area than a headshot. If you aim at the center of the stomach its 10-11 meters. For that kind of accuracy to be required for a 12 meter one shot kill at 80 rpm...I am so glad I returned the game.
You need to be far more accurate with the 870 to get 12 meters out of it than needed with the ksg to get 15 meters. Ksg is better if you are accurate enough to use it in cqc as well as "mid" shotgun range.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 21, 2012 2:00:35 GMT -5
your saying the 870 has body specific multipliers?
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Post by Disgruntled Jigglypuff on Nov 21, 2012 5:05:23 GMT -5
your saying the 870 has body specific multipliers? No, he's saying that those areas are the largest areas you can shoot at, meaning more pellets on target.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 21, 2012 6:58:13 GMT -5
i still don't understand how a shotgun that deals this much damage is "unreliable" when it only needs to land 2 out of the 8 shots
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kittymulcher
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Post by kittymulcher on Nov 21, 2012 7:29:47 GMT -5
He's saying that the 870 doesn't have good damage at range. Which it doesn't, 10 shot kill is dreadful, but the 2 pellet kill is not bad up close.
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Post by -3055- on Nov 21, 2012 8:28:06 GMT -5
Thank god people are agreeing with me that shotguns are bad.
Ksg > r870 > m1216 > s12
The r870 should take 4 pellets at range.
The m1216 should have an rpm of 500 and switch barrels more quickly, maybe 0.3 or 0.25 seconds. And 8 pellets at range.
The s12 should take 8 pellets at range and it should be 350 rpm. What it is now is hilariously abysmal. actually, it's just abysmal; there's nothing funny about my in-game suicidal tactics. I've gotten 8 hitmarkers pretty often at range. I would love to say that I'm awesome at this game and proceeded to reload and kill him but nope. You can only perform so well with a shotgun
Ksg is fine. But don't miss. also, I don't mind suppressor on the ksg. I don't see the point in long barrel because I'm adequate in controlling my engagements to other-shotgun-worthy close range. And since I tend to flank around with ghost, I like to stay off radar. The ksg, unlike other shotguns, need a bit of super precision aiming, so if there are more than one enemy, I need all the time I need. I can't have the second suddenly turn on me. And even with suppressor, the osk range is pretty good. My only issue is that the gun sounds like a little girl sneezing with suppressor.
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Evan950
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Post by Evan950 on Nov 21, 2012 8:41:00 GMT -5
we always have these dreams and ideas of what the shotguns should be like stop dreaming - its not gonna happen
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 21, 2012 8:50:44 GMT -5
I dont think 10 damage at range is bad per say I mean, with 50-25 damage you'd be able to kill at the very end of the pellet range most likely. It'll be weird that a mere unit could mean the difference between a 1 hit kill, and doing no damage at all
the shotguns we have now have potential. we finally good some good stuff; they reward accuracy through ADS, hipspreads and in the M1216s case, recoil. They just overdid a few stuff
First bring hipspread down to 5.0 - 6.5 (is now 6-10, used to be a static 5.5 in CoD4 I think) for all shotguns. Instead of lowering the hipspread alltogether, the laser sight removes the increase when moving so it stays a static 5.0
R870's 2 shot kill range needs to be decreased, while its 3 hit kill increasesed to 500 units (MW2 spas range)
Saiga's range from this terribleness to 400. Keep its low min damage. it'll essentially become a striker with a mag based reload, but slightly less range and more pellets
M1216's range is fine and it should be better with the improved hipfire, IMO. Instead, slightly increase the speed at which barrels are switched like 3055 said
getting hipfire to not suck so much without a laser sight would already be a great step in the right direction
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 21, 2012 10:59:14 GMT -5
your saying the 870 has body specific multipliers? No, he's saying that those areas are the largest areas you can shoot at, meaning more pellets on target. Exactly. Thats the widest point of the body, aiming there causes the largest number of pellets to hit with one shot. The stomach is not as wide so not as many pellets will hit causing the one shot kill range when aiming there to decrease.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 21, 2012 11:19:36 GMT -5
Thank god people are agreeing with me that shotguns are bad. Ksg > r870 > m1216 > s12 The r870 should take 4 pellets at range. The m1216 should have an rpm of 500 and switch barrels more quickly, maybe 0.3 or 0.25 seconds. And 8 pellets at range.The s12 should take 8 pellets at range and it should be 350 rpm. Ksg is fine. The 870 would be a little too strong with 25 min damage. It would likely kill up to very near max range if not at max range while ads. The problem isn't necessarily its damage at range. The problem is non linear drop off. If the current damage model (50-10) followed a linear drop off from 300 inches to 750 inches this 870 would kill very reliably out to 14.7 meters and somewhat reliably out to 16 meters. That wouldn't be so bad. But this thing right now takes literally perfect aim to get 12.5 meter one shot kills. That aint right. The Blops 1 stakeout one shots reliably out to 13.5 meters. One meter further than this pos. They should make it 50-15 damage 300-750 range with a linear drop off. That gives us a very good shotgun while ads at least. I would also like to see hipspread adressed. The m1216 should have its min damage buffed to 10 and have its rechamber time shortened slightly. And have hipfire tightened. S12 I would say up min damage to 10 and leave fire rate at 400. It would be a little too strong to be 2 shotting people at 700 inches at 350 rpm. And tighten hipfire. With any significant buff to the 870 the ksg would need one also. One shot kill range should be the ksg's strong suit. But if the 870 gets the buffs we are talking about it would rival the one shot range of the current ksg. I would say add a torso multiplier so it can one shot to the stomach chest and upper arms out to 20 meters or so. Ksg has slowest fire rate so it should have longest one shot range.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 21, 2012 11:31:35 GMT -5
I dont think 10 damage at range is bad per say the shotguns we have now have potential. we finally good some good stuff; they reward accuracy through ADS, hipspreads and in the M1216s case, recoil. They just overdid a few stuff First bring hipspread down to 5.0 - 6.5 (is now 6-10, used to be a static 5.5 in CoD4 I think) for all shotguns. Instead of lowering the hipspread alltogether, the laser sight removes the increase when moving so it stays a static 5.0 R870's 2 shot kill range needs to be decreased, while its 3 hit kill increasesed to 500 units (MW2 spas range) Saiga's range from this terribleness to 400. Keep its low min damage. it'll essentially become a striker with a mag based reload, but slightly less range and more pellets M1216's range is fine and it should be better with the improved hipfire, IMO. Instead, slightly increase the speed at which barrels are switched like 3055 said getting hipfire to not suck so much without a laser sight would already be a great step in the right direction The non linear drop off and poor damage at range that these weapons have needs to be adressed. The 870's 50 damage range is already small. Most likely sub 6 meters. it definitly does not need to be shortened. Read my post above to see what I think about what should be done with shotguns.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 21, 2012 11:32:02 GMT -5
The 870 would be a little too strong with 25 min damage. It would likely kill up to very near max range if not at max range while ads. Honey, you're saying that like it's a bad thing.
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 21, 2012 11:35:11 GMT -5
It aint. But I am thinking of cod balancing. Like what they might actually do to these weapons. A faster firing mw2 spas with tighter ads fire than hipfire aint gonna happen.
What I said for the 870 is a little closer to what might be realistic.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 21, 2012 12:21:03 GMT -5
linear damage dropoff aint a problem on its own it's the radical jump the thing takes. which is why my suggestion was to cut the 50 damage range off in exchange for long 40 damage range
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 21, 2012 12:32:01 GMT -5
linear damage dropoff aint a problem on its own it's the radical jump the thing takes. which is why my suggestion was to cut the 50 damage range off in exchange for long 40 damage range Why the 50 damage range is already tiny. it doesn't need to get smaller, the other ranges need to get longer.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 21, 2012 12:42:09 GMT -5
you get a choice
short ass 50 damage long ass 40 damage no ass
there's no way they'll make it a long range 2 pellet kill
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Brick2urface
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Post by Brick2urface on Nov 21, 2012 12:52:06 GMT -5
Wut? Bro They can just make the damage drop start right where the 2 pellet kill ends now. its already short. it would be like normal. The 2 pellet kill is MAX damage. As soon as the damage starts to drop it goes to a 3 pellet kill. The 50 damage range can be as short as it is now.
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tiesieman
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Post by tiesieman on Nov 21, 2012 13:17:06 GMT -5
oh nevermind
im talking out of my arse here
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