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Post by Marvel4 on Nov 14, 2012 12:22:06 GMT -5
See signature.
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Post by iamthehater on Nov 14, 2012 12:30:23 GMT -5
First thanks Marvel for putting in the time and energy pulling the stats. I'm surprised how close the guns spreads are. I was hoping for a G11 burst gun (with smg hip spread). That SMR w/select fire will be interesting.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 14, 2012 13:25:04 GMT -5
Do you think you can get sway speeds also, since Fred hasnt' been here since August?
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Post by Marvel4 on Nov 18, 2012 12:15:31 GMT -5
Added SMGs and LMGs. Do you think you can get sway speeds also, since Fred hasnt' been here since August? Maybe. I think the sniper rifles have the same idle as in Black Ops and MW3. Crouching or going prone seems to reduce it.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 18, 2012 16:26:59 GMT -5
Wow. LMGs prone are incredible SMG hipspread! Add a laser and do that all day long
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 18, 2012 17:42:38 GMT -5
Added SMGs and LMGs. Do you think you can get sway speeds also, since Fred hasnt' been here since August? Maybe. I think the sniper rifles have the same idle as in Black Ops and MW3. Crouching or going prone seems to reduce it. Do you reckon the SVU-AS got the same treatment as the AS50 from MW3 in idle speed, since its default scope is acog zoom? Hell, was BO WA2000's idle sway speed lower also vs the other sniper rifles?
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Post by Marvel4 on Nov 19, 2012 0:46:23 GMT -5
Added Laser Sight and Rapid Fire info. Hell, was BO WA2000's idle sway speed lower also vs the other sniper rifles? No.
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Post by RageHulkSmash on Nov 19, 2012 2:19:20 GMT -5
Laser Sight on LMGs reduces hipspread by 45%. Holy shit.
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Post by Marvel4 on Nov 19, 2012 2:46:45 GMT -5
Added Sniper Rifles and Shotguns.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 19, 2012 2:59:43 GMT -5
Shotguns prone should be the standing
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Post by Marvel4 on Nov 19, 2012 4:35:14 GMT -5
Added Handguns and Crossbow.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 19, 2012 5:59:37 GMT -5
Hey, what about shotguns ADS spread? I remember you tested those for MW3
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Post by Marvel4 on Nov 19, 2012 6:43:56 GMT -5
Seems to be around 2 degrees for all shotguns (including the Executioner).
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Nov 19, 2012 8:24:32 GMT -5
Thanks for the good job, man, especially for RF's and LS's effects on the Hip Spread. And Executioner's Hip Spread while prone still makes me smile.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 19, 2012 12:45:21 GMT -5
Shotgun chart updated.These spreads make the Executioner look really good. Too good, actually, based on how much shit everyone is giving it.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 19, 2012 17:33:19 GMT -5
now please do idle sway times!
Does M27 really have awful idle speed?
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Nov 19, 2012 17:46:25 GMT -5
I might try using the executioner as a primary based on those numbers...
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 20, 2012 19:05:41 GMT -5
The KAP may be the best SMG in the game.
With laser, it has a tighter spread than the SMGs, even if they, too, have a laser. It is a three hit kill at 900 RPM, which is stronger or faster than any SMG, up to ranges comparable to the three hit kill guns.
But I've never used it. How is it in practice? At the very least, it should be a boss secondary for LMGs and snipers.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 20, 2012 22:45:36 GMT -5
Well that's interesting... SMGs with Stead Aim in BO1 had a tighter hip spread than the SMGs with Laser Sights in BO2. Yet everyone is incessantly complaining about the SMGs with Laser Sights.... odd...
Anyways, I dislike when devs make attachments affect every gun differently. IMO it kinda goes against the grain of balance to have an attachment benefit the LMGs and shotguns considerably more than SMGs. The Laser benefits the QBB so much more than the MSMC it's not even funny. To me, balance means a flat percentage. Whatever
KAP is pretty beast, but you can't rely on a 15 round mag. It doesn't exactly feel like 900 rpm, but it is, and the clip is gone in the blink of an eye. It's a good panic weapon for a sniper. I wouldn't go with akimbo honestly, I feel like the Laser Sight or the Extended Mags are overall better attachments.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 20, 2012 23:10:31 GMT -5
Vahn specifically cited the fact that attachments can be custom tuned over perks as part of the reason why BO2 moved to having all weapon modifiers manifest as attachments rather than perks.
...of course, perks can also selectively act on weapons, such as Sleight of Hand in BO1.
Tried out the KAP. Within the 3 hit kill range, it is absurdly powerful and probably more powerful than any automatic weapon. Using laser and extended mags made for a fun little gun that could very easily complement any weapon ill suited for CQC. Its recoil is also very low, but its use at range is hampered by its diminutive magazine, pistol sights, and low magnification.
On a scale of 9 mm to .50 cal, I give it a 7.62.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 20, 2012 23:34:57 GMT -5
If it is worth one point, it should be good.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 21, 2012 10:42:34 GMT -5
...which is a central failing of Pick 10 as it disallows lowering or increasing the cost of a given item as is warranted by its merit.
A secondary (alongside a primary) is one point whereas a second primary costs two points and a secondary with an attachment is also two points. Should a secondary with an attachment be statistically comparable to a naked primary?
Regardless, the high strength of the KAP (and the Raffica) are probably good grounds to buff the Five-Seven and possibly the 45.
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 21, 2012 10:58:17 GMT -5
Idk, that Tac 45 is pretty crazy. It's just the Five Seven and the Executioner that don't measure up to the KAP and B23R.
But I completely agree with Mega - it should be Pick 100. If the next CoD adopts this create-a-class system, you should get 100, or even 1000 points to spend, and all items would have different prices based on their effectiveness. Ever since they first revealed Pick 10 I knew it was a bit too simplistic.
Anyone remember Homefront's "perk" system? I'm thinking something similar to that.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 21, 2012 11:29:19 GMT -5
I, for one, would like Pick 100, but, honestly, even just Pick 20 would deliver most of the good without blowing people's minds (remember, most kids who play this are 12).
Have secondaries cost half as much as primaries, but be bad primaries.
In return, have primary equivalents of current secondaries. Primary Five-Seven anyone?
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Post by TheHawkNY on Nov 27, 2012 15:47:22 GMT -5
Rapid Fire increases hipspread? Is it just completely pointless then? I haven't had success with it (although I have not tested it on the Skorpion yet).
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Nov 27, 2012 15:56:16 GMT -5
Yes. It is 100% worthless. Makes your gun much, much, worse.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Nov 27, 2012 15:57:03 GMT -5
It reduces range, hip fire accuracy, and centerspeed.
But, hey, it gives a 50% fire rate bonus to the Evo, so it's balanced, right?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 25, 2012 3:17:55 GMT -5
Marvel: has the stats in the OP updated post-patch? Both SMG and SMG w/LS are nerfed, right?
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Dec 25, 2012 8:06:28 GMT -5
To help some comparison: Assault Rifles | Standing | Crouch | Prone | Default | 3 - 6.75 | 2.5 - 5.75 | 2 - 5 | Type 25 | 3 - 6.75 | 2.5 - 5.75 | 1.5 - 5 | SMR | 4 - 8 | 3 - 6 | 2 - 5 |
Laser Sight on ARs reduces hipspread by 35%. SMGs | Standing | Crouch | Prone | Default | 2 - 4.75 | 1.75 - 4.25 | 1.5 - 4 |
Laser Sight on SMGs reduces hipspread by 25%. Rapid Fire on SMGs increases hipspread by 30%. LMGs | Standing | Crouch | Prone | Default | 6 - 12 | 5 - 9 | 2 - 4 |
Laser Sight on LMGs reduces hipspread by 45%. Rapid Fire on LMGs increases hipspread by 20%. Sniper Rifles | Standing | Crouch | Prone | Default | 10 - 15 | 9.5 - 14 | 9 - 13 | DSR-50 | 12 - 17 | 11 - 15 | 9 - 13 |
Laser Sight on Sniper Rifles reduces hipspread by 37.5%. Shotguns | Standing | Crouch | Prone | Default | 6 - 10 | 5 - 7 | 5 - 6 | KSG | 3 - 5 | 2.5 - 4.5 | 2 - 4 |
Laser Sight on Shotguns reduces hipspread by 37.5%. Handguns | Standing | Crouch | Prone | Default | 3 - 5 | 2.5 - 4 | 2 - 3 | B23R | 3 - 5 | 2.5 - 5 | 2 - 3 | Executioner | 4 - 6 | 3 - 5 | 1 - 2 |
Laser Sight on Handguns reduces hipspread by 37.5%. Handguns Dual Wield | Standing | Crouch | Prone | Default | 4 - 8 | 3 - 7 | 2 - 5 | Executioner | 6 - 10 | 5 - 9 | 3 - 7 |
Special | Standing | Crouch | Prone | Crossbow | 3 - 7 | 2 - 6 | 1.5 - 3 |
Let's also use SMG default (pre-nerf) as measuring stick (since everybody has a sense of what it is like) to see effects of Laser Sight on AR & LMG: | Standing | Crouch | Prone | SMG default | 2 - 4.75 | 1.75 - 4.25 | 1.5 - 4 | AR w/LS (65%) | 1.95 - 4.38 | 1.63 - 3.74 | 1.3 - 3.25 | LMG w/LS (55%) | 3.3 - 6.6 | 2.75 - 4.95 | 1.1 - 2.2 |
Quick facts: 1) AR w/LS is slightly better than pre-nerf SMG without LS across all stances. As a result, when customizing AR LS is an useful attachment to consider. 2) LS on LMG on the other hand does not help greatly, despite the deeper 45% reduction. Even crouch stance is worse than SMG default in standing stance (LMG Prone stance has great hip thread even w/o LS). In other words, LS does not look like a good investment for LMG.
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 25, 2012 13:06:29 GMT -5
Marvel: has the stats in the OP updated post-patch? Both SMG and SMG w/LS are nerfed, right? For some reason, the patch on PC didn't change anything, so I can't update it yet.
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