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Post by gentlemanjim on Nov 30, 2012 10:19:14 GMT -5
Yeah, the challenge bit probably came from trying to gold the swat. Auto FAL is best pony.
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Nov 30, 2012 10:22:58 GMT -5
I agree - it's amazing. Just got it back last night after first prestige. Bring on some Carrier... ;D
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Post by gentlemanjim on Nov 30, 2012 10:43:23 GMT -5
But severely punished on the majority of maps.
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Post by gentlemanjim on Nov 30, 2012 13:43:58 GMT -5
Works both ways. Most enemies will flank on the CQC routes, forcing you into the same pattern. Either go in CQC and die or Stay long range, get flanked and die.
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Nov 30, 2012 13:49:15 GMT -5
So I was observing and...
PDW is pretty much MW3`s P90 Skorpion is PP90M1 with 4HK(?) Chicom is... Chicom MSMC is kinda like hUMP45. MP7 is Skorpion with more range, less recoil and less RPM?
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danoski666
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Post by danoski666 on Nov 30, 2012 13:54:49 GMT -5
Sounds meh as shit. I`ll use the Vector from sentiment, maybe the Chicom. Plan to be packing a KAP-40 or RPG on most classes. Don`t plan to use grenades. Shotguns and LMGs all day eryday I guess.
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Post by wantonRULE on Nov 30, 2012 14:12:22 GMT -5
skorpian evo suppressed with extended mags. all day! absolutely went to town with that thing yesterday. i finally put down the 870 after endless frustration and picked this puppy up and k/d boosting galore insued. Best game yesterday was a 48/3 with 2 warthogs. Skorpian Evo easily the most dangerous smg. Erases at mid range as well with a quick 2 burst. I was in love with the chicom but this thing is the full-auto version of it. K/d, spm, wins all went up after a full night with the skorpEvo. ADS'd? I haven't 'aimed' an SMG for over a week. Hip + Laser. Didn't get on with the EVO in that mode - maybe not ADS'ing was the problem.... yea i always ads'ed for engagements that weren't deemed close (subjective). but when i did hipfire it completely erased the enemy. i was using smgs the first couple of days of this game and just couldn't hipfire them, i was always used to adsing. in all other fps games adsing > hipfire. that was the balance, you give up ttk time for accuracy but blops 2 threw that out the window with smgs hip accuracy. anyway, yes, the skorpian is magnificent hipfired in cqc and ads is easy mode because it has 0 recoil shooting at 1200 rpm (a bit recoil but not famas bf3 recoil) so the quick 2 burst will drop anyone before they can even stop running. so this gun actually rewards my playstyle and habit of always adsing...the results speak for themselves for me. i don't remember ever having the string of games i was having last night.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 1, 2012 18:02:44 GMT -5
I don't know how you can say that ARs are outclassed. Doesn't everyone know that the KAP outclasses all of the SMGs at close range?
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Dec 1, 2012 19:36:15 GMT -5
I don't think any smg in BO2, is really that comparable to MW3 guns.
Most are 4 hit kill guns that fire 900 RPM and over, while the 3 hit kill guns have low recoil and +700 RPM.
More closer to BO1 guns.
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moses
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Post by moses on Dec 1, 2012 22:58:09 GMT -5
I don't know how you can say that ARs are outclassed. Doesn't everyone know that the KAP outclasses all of the SMGs at close range? The Skorpion with RF beats the KAP-40 in TTK, RoF, and ammo capacity up close. The KAP-40 is a solid gun with its .1 second ADS speed, 900 RPM, 3SK up close, decent range (beats the PDW's 3SK range), and okay recoil. The ammo count on it just kills it though, you need 30%+ accuracy to even get a mid-range kill consistently.
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Post by KingVaroon on Dec 2, 2012 0:12:39 GMT -5
PDW all day.
Vector in second place, followed by MSMC.
The MP7 is the Enfield of this game. If you can deal with all that gun kick in your face, then you're rewarded with a slightly larger clip than the Vector.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 2, 2012 10:11:48 GMT -5
Here r my thots on the weapons mentioned ITT:
MP7 Compared to the Vec, this one is the slightly more advantageous of the two if you are good enough at hitting things (or conversely, if you're so bad at hitting things the Vec's recoil doesn't really help) with it to where its more favorable characteristics come into play. Not really sure which one I prefer. Probably the MP7. They're both great all-rounders. I don't often Overkill SMGs, but when I do, it's probably an MP7 or a Vec with a Suppressor.
Pee Dee Dubya The high capacity SMG. PDW and MSMC vs. the MP7 and Vec mostly come down to a matter of preference. Feels like the hipfire here isn't as good as the other non-MSMC SMGs without a laser... but like (almost) every other SMG Laser + Suppressor are really all you need. Otherwise a solid gun with the standout advantage of the big mag. PDW vs. MSMC, it's clearly big ammo vs. longer range. I tend to favor the PDW because I don't even have to think about reloading until the target and his two friends who spawned mere feet away from us are all dead. A welcome option for non-Scav SMG classes.
Vector See MP7 blurb above.
MSMC I've heard some people are say this is the new AK74u. To that I say "haha." While the MSMC does stand in the gap between AR and SMG like the AK74 or the UMP before it, it's patently not as good as either of those two were. Still a top tier gun in this game (after all it is an smg lololol).
Chicom Fun and interesting gun. My most used weapon but I'll be the first to admit it's not super practical being a burst weapon that relies heavily on its rate of fire to get kills. Takes a minimum of two bursts and if it takes much more than that an automatic would have killed faster. Embarrassingly for the Chicom, I find the B23R is a more efficient killer in extreme close quarters encounters and the latter only costs a point to tack onto any class. If I want an SMG with characteristics similar to a lightweight AR, I'll take the MSMC; if I want to do SMG stuff, I'll take the Skorpion. One of the only guns in the game for which one could try to build a case for Rapidfire.
Skorpion Personal fav. My pick for overall best SMG. The hipfire with a laser is unreal. It cuts down enemies near instantly from crazy ranges (for hipfire). The high rate of fire is a blessing but can be a bit of a curse in serial engagements due to how fast the bottom of the mag comes up. Manage those reloads wisely.
KAP-40 An SMG that not only fits in one's pocket but is super competent. Unless you get dropped by a single burst from the B23R or one-shotted by a shotgun, this wastes everything in SMG range. 15 is a big enough mag for a use-in-a-pinch backup weapon, but if you are going to use it a lot EMags is worth the point. Love this gun. For kicks I made a Secondary Gunfighter class and stuck a Suppressor on the KAP in addition to EMags, and the results were great. Not great enough to take over an actual SMG, but it makes an awesome secondary.
Ballista I don't know about you bros but I love this thing. I just started using it. Ballistic CPU + Variable Zoom= dream sniper. The split second it takes me to aim for the chest is worth having almost no sway at all and it feels just a little less clunky than the other snipers. Looking forward to trying the iron sights although I doubt I'll like it.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Dec 2, 2012 10:57:04 GMT -5
Yes, that's true about the recoil. Thing is while the MVP7's advantages may be pretty marginal compared to the Recoil Mitigation Technology™ of Jesus Kriss, the former's recoil is highly manageable in my experience. YMMV. I digs 'em both, which reminds me I've been spending too much time with the Chicom/Skorpion and should show some love to the others.
Good call on the KAP-40 +Dual-Wield... I was actually going to mention it but by the time I finished typing I'd forgotten all about it due to having the memory of a gold fish and being at work since 4am on like two and a half hours of sleep.
Kaptain 40 is a cool guy +Dual-Wield. Super effective up close. Lacks the surgical precision of a one-burst B23R kill but is otherwise great. Has just a smidge less stopping power than the 870, but otherwise dual Kaps are tough as hell to beat and can pull kills out their arse in a way only akimBros can... just don't bite off more than your 15-round mags can chew.
If I'm going to be using the KAP a lot, I'll use EMags. If I just want a get-out-my-face option for pretty much any (but mostly non-SMG) class, I'll dual-wield. Hard for me to justify Laser over EMags or even a Suppressor as its hipfire is not only p. good without it but also fast ADS.
On my sniper class I'm currently rocking Overkill + Vec + Suppressor so I can switch fluidly from being a selfish snipeback to an SMG bro when it's Objective Time. Weighing pros v. cons of dumping Overkill in favor of Kap'n 40, but I'd only save a point and have to either give up the Suppressor or be stuck with 15 round mags. Not sure if one point's worth that much loss of functionality...
Edit: ye gods i doth ramble
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Dec 3, 2012 10:15:07 GMT -5
PDW-57 vs Skorpion EVO (without RF)
edit: see post below
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42
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Post by 42 on Dec 3, 2012 10:17:56 GMT -5
These are such negligible percentages that who gets the kill will rely more on aim and gunskill rather than numbers. Numbers are important, but they can only do so much.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Dec 3, 2012 10:31:58 GMT -5
ofc,
anyway I was curious about the numbers.
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Post by Marvel4 on Dec 3, 2012 10:50:45 GMT -5
Those numbers don't make sense. Did you use the correct maximum rate of fire? It should be 1250 RPM for the Skorpion and 750 RPM for the PDW-57.
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wwaa
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Post by wwaa on Dec 3, 2012 10:52:42 GMT -5
I had 720 and 1200 from a table "Black Ops II - Weapon Statistics Version 1.03 (Nov 21st)" using 750 and 1250: Relative TTK of both guns (average ratios in given framerate ranges) in a table below. Skorpion EVO TTK = "number from the table" x PDW-57 TTK. long range := both weapons: min damage, close range := both weapons: max damage. and and More details for bros on consoles, close range: columns: FPS - ratio: TTK: SkorpionEVO / PDW57 20 fps: 0.75 = Skorpion better 21 fps: 1.5 = PDW better 22 fps: 1.5 = PDW better 23 fps: 1.5 = PDW better 24 fps: 1.5 = PDW better 25 fps: 1.5 26 fps: 1 27 fps: 1 28 fps: 1 29 fps: 1 30 fps: 1 31 fps: 1 32 fps: 1 33 fps: 1 34 fps: 1 35 fps: 1 36 fps: 1 37 fps: 1 38 fps: 0.75 = Skorpion better 39 fps: 0.75 = Skorpion better 40 fps: 0.75 = Skorpion better 41 fps: 0.75 = Skorpion better 42 fps: 1.125 = PDW better 43 fps: 1.125 = PDW better 44 fps: 1.125 = PDW better 45 fps: 1.125 = PDW better 46 fps: 1.125 = PDW better 47 fps: 1.125 = PDW better 48 fps: 1.125 = PDW better 49 fps: 1.125 = PDW better 50 fps: 1.125 = PDW better 51 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better 52 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better 53 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better 54 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better 55 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better 56 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better 57 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better 58 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better 59 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better 60 fps: 0.9 = Skorpion better
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Dec 3, 2012 10:55:29 GMT -5
They're all the best smg.
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tooros
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Post by tooros on Dec 3, 2012 15:51:32 GMT -5
According to elite, out of nearly 2.5k deaths I've been killed by a pdw. ...........
.....68 times. Eh?
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 3, 2012 16:48:31 GMT -5
why do i like the vector guys?...i need reasons why i keep using it over the mp7 or pdw lol...probably a strange question but i know aside from recoil the vector has nothing over the mp7 so why is it here? anyone know any more cool things about the vec that i don't?
also i'm using it with a suppressor and extended/fast mags, what are some recommendations?..still like the skorp btw.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Dec 3, 2012 16:52:42 GMT -5
Use grip so it looks like the MW2 Vektoros.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 3, 2012 16:53:53 GMT -5
Recoil isn't nothing. Vector is the accurate high RoF SMG for people that don't want to keep pressing the button.
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 3, 2012 17:04:46 GMT -5
Use grip so it looks like the MW2 Vektoros. will try for teh lolz...but is the grip necessary or a waste of point? @aidsx3: but if you put a grip on the mp7 doesn't that get you to vector levels of accuracy (i.e. less recoil) with more bullets, damage over range, and faster reload?
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Dec 3, 2012 17:08:18 GMT -5
Use grip so it looks like the MW2 Vektoros. will try for teh lolz...but is the grip necessary or a waste of point? @aidsx3: but if you put a grip on the mp7 doesn't that get you to vector levels of accuracy (i.e. less recoil) with more bullets, damage over range, and faster reload? And one less CaC point. If your class only has room for one attachment you might not want to be forced into grip. I doubt such cases are the norm, but it's hardly unrealistic.
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 3, 2012 17:12:26 GMT -5
is the mp7 with grip the same as a naked vector? also is the vector with heavy barrel the same as naked mp7 in terms of damage at range?
would be interested to know because i agree with you, i wouldn't want to waste a point for grip on the mp7.
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 3, 2012 17:12:50 GMT -5
or if you want to use....you know....any other attachment agree
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Post by mw2baller on Dec 3, 2012 20:55:02 GMT -5
The mp7 is worse. Here's the deal. When does less recoil help? All the time. When does the extra range help? At discrete range intervals where recoil might sometimes help more. End of story.
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Post by wantonRULE on Dec 4, 2012 8:27:14 GMT -5
The mp7 is worse. Here's the deal. When does less recoil help? All the time. When does the extra range help? At discrete range intervals where recoil might sometimes help more. End of story. ok, i'm convienced lol...also the main reason is the vector just looks too dope not to use.
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Post by Falufa on Dec 4, 2012 11:43:36 GMT -5
Doesn't everyone know that the KAP outclasses all of the SMGs at close range? This. Going by the the stats, the KAP-40: - Beats every SMG at ranges below 500u - Is on par with Skorpion and Chicom from 500u to 850u (and doesn't require trigger spamming compared to the latter) - Beats MSMC and PDW up till 850u - Beats MP7 and Vector up to 1300u - Has better ADS time, raise/drop time, and headshot multiplier than all SMGs It's only drawback is it's low capacity, but 15 rounds should be enough to drop a guy, maybe 2 if you're accurate. If you were planning to use an SMG in an Overkill class, just use the KAP-40 and save yourself a CaC point to use elsewhere.
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