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Post by Ishbane on Nov 17, 2012 15:19:49 GMT -5
I've been running LMG (LSAT) mostly.
Since there are only two HK guns in BlOps 2 - and i didn't want to run with SMG crowd - i gave the M27 a try.
Holy motherFoxtrotting cat of a sweaty ballsack, that ass-licking piece of doo-doo blows so Foxtrotting hard! I could have shot myself immediately after spawning over and over again instead of trying to engage enemies and i would have come out with a better k/d.
Low damage output, Slow RoF. Sure, it's precise, but i've almost always been outgunned by SMG users firing from the Foxtrotting hip or sniping with grip. Not to mention that they also profit from faster movement speed and larger mags and faster reload. Range advantage is useless as well, when firing at a distant enemy i might get 2-3 hitmarkers before my target reaches cover. That is, if i find a spot on the map allowing me to look further than 20ft.
Why the Foxtrot should i ever bother using any non-high-damage-AR over an SMG?
If only LMGs wouldn't own so hard, i'd drop the game in an instant.
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Champ
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Post by Champ on Nov 17, 2012 15:23:16 GMT -5
Too bad, cuz it looks sick with EOT sight.
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Nov 17, 2012 15:28:37 GMT -5
Well, sometimes dead-aim gun is a good choice (see ACR in MW2). The problem is not in the gun, the problem is in maps: in MW2, you had really huge maps where ACR literally kicked asses; in BO II, like in MW3, you have CQC-suited maps, where long range combats are dominated by Sniper Riffles (see Turbine and Drone), but CQC is the 95% of all the battles. That's why M27 totally sucks in this game, but if used correctly, it still can kick asses.
Oh, I've forgotten: there's no Stopping power in this game.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 17, 2012 15:46:47 GMT -5
^^But the problem is that most ARs, half the smgs, and ALL LMGs in this game, have very good accuracy compared to previous games. MTAR is statistically superior than the M27 because it's a 3 hit kill range at smg range, and has hardly any more recoil than the M27. And M27 can't beat Type25 either within its 4 hit kill range, because of its lower RoF.
Honestly, I think the only way the M27 can compete with the other ars, and smgs at close range, is to get a damage increase. Buff its damage from 33 to 35 at least. That way, it doesn't outlcass MTAR(MTAR also has 1.2 head multiplier, unlike M27's 1.1x), but has the niche of being an all around good auto weapon at al ranges. It's the only way IMO, or else its outgunned at all ranges by other autos in some way or another.
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Robospy
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Post by Robospy on Nov 17, 2012 15:46:52 GMT -5
I like the accuracy. I have a 35% headshot rate with this gun, about 3-4x other weapons. And with a significantly higher headshot rate, it means I get a bullet to kill reduction very often.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 17, 2012 15:49:53 GMT -5
I like the accuracy. I have a 35% headshot rate with this gun, about 3-4x other weapons. And with a significantly higher headshot rate, it means I get a bullet to kill reduction very often. ^^It has the lowest headshot multiplier out of all the ARs, bar M8. This would be disadvantageous at medium to long range for it.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 17, 2012 15:55:23 GMT -5
since when do headhsots matter? It gives the m27 a 3 hit kill at close range, if one of the bullets is a headshot. If its within the 5 hit kill range though, M27 can't 4 hit kill no matter what, since its min damage was decreased from 23 to 22, which isn't enough due to its 1.1 multiplier.
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Post by Voice from the Basement on Nov 17, 2012 19:24:35 GMT -5
^^But the problem is that most ARs, half the smgs, and ALL LMGs in this game, have very good accuracy compared to previous games. MTAR is statistically superior than the M27 because it's a 3 hit kill range at smg range, and has hardly any more recoil than the M27. And M27 can't beat Type25 either within its 4 hit kill range, because of its lower RoF. Honestly, I think the only way the M27 can compete with the other ars, and smgs at close range, is to get a damage increase. Buff its damage from 33 to 35 at least. That way, it doesn't outlcass MTAR(MTAR also has 1.2 head multiplier, unlike M27's 1.1x), but has the niche of being an all around good auto weapon at al ranges. It's the only way IMO, or else its outgunned at all ranges by other autos in some way or another. Yeah, I do agree with you. Maps + other guns' low recoil is the grave for M27 users. As for my experience, most of M27 users are campers. And I understand them: they have no choice.
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Post by MastaQ on Nov 17, 2012 21:15:55 GMT -5
M27 is absolute garbage.
But, isn't the M8 an HK weapon?
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 17, 2012 21:20:32 GMT -5
M27 is pretty much MW2 ACR. Nothing going for it except for it's accuracy. IMO, that's how accurate weapons are suposed to be: Weak as fuck, but man those things take down snipers in no time.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 17, 2012 23:26:41 GMT -5
If I could balance the guns....
1. Let the SVU-AS OSOK to the neck at default, AND no damage penalty with silencer(OSOK to head +neck with silencer), so it can compete more with the other 3 sniper rifles. If people seriously try to counter this for whatever reason, note that SVU-AS's default zoom is ACOG, so its hard enough as it is to aim for the head and neck. You'd need an extra attachment like variable zoom or dual band for better headshots.
2. Raise M27's max damage from 33 to 35, so its a 3 hit kill at close range, and will have a chance to be as good as the other auto ARs, smgs, and lmgs at close range. It won't outclass the MTAR, since it will have a sooner 3 hit kill damage drop off, as well as its already less head multiplier. Also, maybe revert back its minimum damage to 23 again, so it has a chance of a 4 shot kill with headshots.
3. Buff the semi auto shotguns some way. Nobody is using them. I suggest more range for Saiga, and increase the last shotgun's damage per pellet from 25 to 30.
4. Buff the shotgun revolver. The range and damage sucks. Increase pellet damage from 30 to 40 or increase its range.
5. Give the MP7 and Vector a longer 4 hit kill range so they can compete with the PDW57 and MSMC. I don't know anymore, since some people here are actually arguing that MP7 and vector>PSW57 and MSMC, simply because they fire faster.
6. Reduce SMR's high hipfire spread to AR hipspread, and equal its RoF cap to equal FALs.
7. Insert nerf to FAL. Maybe give it higher than AR hipspread?
Not weapon related.
8. Buff hardwired or combine it with another perk. Only countering counter UAVs and Orbital VSAT is too situational and both take a lot of points just to get.
9. Just give Ghost full immunity to UAV, and have it unlocked earlier already. Somewhere in the 30s to 40s maybe.
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Post by mw2baller on Nov 18, 2012 0:51:50 GMT -5
the m27 is great. Perfect accuracy is a great attribute for a gun.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Nov 18, 2012 0:51:53 GMT -5
I think an increase in RoF to 800 would be perfect. Make it like the MW2 M4. Outspeeds the TAR at 4HK range and is more accurate than the Type 25 at long range.
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arcanine2009
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Post by arcanine2009 on Nov 18, 2012 1:32:19 GMT -5
I think an increase in RoF to 800 would be perfect. Make it like the MW2 M4. Outspeeds the TAR at 4HK range and is more accurate than the Type 25 at long range.
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GoHarvard
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Post by GoHarvard on Nov 18, 2012 2:01:39 GMT -5
I picked it up off the ground and got a few long range kills with it earlier. It's extremely accurate in full auto from distance. ROF or Damage increase would probably make it a little ridiculous. Right now I think it kinda has it's place since it has such little recoil.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on Nov 18, 2012 3:18:02 GMT -5
I think an increase in RoF to 800 would be perfect. Make it like the MW2 M4. Outspeeds the TAR at 4HK range and is more accurate than the Type 25 at long range. Nope. It is accurate, change that and you ruin it. It wins the MTAR because of the recoil and it is already more accurate than the Type 25 - at any range.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Nov 18, 2012 6:14:21 GMT -5
What are people's thoughts on the SCAR? I never hear anyone hear give an opinion on it one way or another. Is it's crazy range an awesome thing to bring into a game?
I like the Type 25 but I prefer something that doesn't burn as much ammo, so I'm debating between the MTAR and the SCAR.
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Champ
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Post by Champ on Nov 18, 2012 6:20:59 GMT -5
What are people's thoughts on the SCAR? I never hear anyone hear give an opinion on it one way or another. Is it's crazy range an awesome thing to bring into a game? I like the Type 25 but I prefer something that doesn't burn as much ammo, so I'm debating between the MTAR and the SCAR. I would say it's better than M27. Recoil is pretty bad, but you get 2 hk pretty often, because of headshots. I like AN-94 better, it has more vertical recoil. P.S. MTAR is bad too.
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Post by Ishbane on Nov 18, 2012 8:06:11 GMT -5
But, isn't the M8 an HK weapon? More or less, fictional future variant of the HK XM8.
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Post by citrus on Nov 18, 2012 10:03:28 GMT -5
its pretty much a carbon copy of mw2's m4 Its RoF-Damage ratio sucks though.
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Post by Marvel4 on Nov 18, 2012 10:56:51 GMT -5
I don't see any problems with the M27. It's extremely accurate, so there has to be some disadvantage. Also, 33 damage isn't bad at all. You can kill in three hits if your enemy is only slightly damaged (Concussion Grenades).
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Post by I Am Hollywood5 on Nov 19, 2012 1:42:02 GMT -5
It's (almost) the MW2 ACR. Except just a tad less lazor-beam-ish. It has also good range. All it really needs is either a 1.2 headshot or 24 min dmg so that it can kill in 4 at long range with a headshot.
The weapon is just very map-specific. It pwns on Turbine, but if you try to use it on Hijacked, it's going to ruin your day
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