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Post by TheHawkNY on May 22, 2013 10:00:04 GMT -5
unless gamestop tries to influence them otherwise, seeing as how theyre the biggest retailer of games in the US by far "Hey sony, look at all this shelf space that just opened up" Seeing as how Gamestop makes over 40% of their profits from used games, it's not hard to imagine them going the same route that every large music retailer went when people transitioned to downloading music. (Source: www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-06/gamestop-falls-after-report-xbox-will-block-used-games.html )
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42
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Post by 42 on May 22, 2013 10:14:31 GMT -5
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 22, 2013 10:21:26 GMT -5
Also, Gamefly.
I forgot to mention that in my first post. I buy Gamefly for like 3 months a year to quickly play all the singleplayer linear experiences. I also understand that Gamefly/Gamestop can hurt business...and if both companies (Sony/Micro) want to do something about it than so be it... but Sony set the precedent by denying the rumors.
It isn't that Kotaku or whatever fallible site stated "yeah, XBOX1 won't do used games w/out a fee." it's that XBOX hasn't confirmed or denied like Sony did. They could have addressed that like they did. They didn't.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 22, 2013 10:36:43 GMT -5
Sure it's all speculation. I wish they were a bit more forthright to bolster my confidence in them.
(haven't watched that video yet) Anything good on it?
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Post by torrero on May 22, 2013 10:46:25 GMT -5
Soooooo... what I am getting is that basically no one REALLY knows wtf the details are on either, especially when it comes to used games. I am highly skeptical of the gaming media. Almost EVERY article I read about a particular game, game series and now hardware device comes off as extremely biased in one way or another. I feel like it is becoming increasingly difficult to find a true, unbiased article reviewing either console and any game. that being said, the used game issue will definitely be at the forefront of many debates between the XB1 and PS4. Obviously it can and will alienate players if either console has an overly restrictive policy. Instead of jumping on some kind of hate train I am going to reserve judgement until I know the details of game sharing. I havent heard anything at all (that i remember ) regarding the PS4, do we have any used game policy details? As for the always on internet, i really dont see this as THAT big of a deal. personally I (and i am going to assume that VAST MAJORITY of you all) leave my console plugged in to the internet 24/7. it just seems extrememly silly to plug it in and unplug a cable from it whenever i start/finish playing. Does anyone ever actually do this? ?? I can understand people being upset if you cannot play due to a local internet outage in your area, but I believe from skimming through this you have a period of time you can play offline. I cannot remember a time when my internet was down for over 24 hours (honestly i cant remember it being down for more than 1-2 hours in the last couple years). The ONLY time I personally can see it being down for longer than a full day is if there was some kind of major event (eg hurricane sandy) that destroys the local area.... in that situation you probably have bigger issues that trying to get online to play games.
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Post by torrero on May 22, 2013 11:00:21 GMT -5
Just came across this bit of info in an article, thought it was interesting "Microsoft HAS clarified that if you play a game on a friend’s Xbox using YOUR account, a sharing fee is not required. But if you loan it to them to play on their own account, there would be." "Kotaku asked Microsoft directly whether not an internet connection was required. Yes and no, was the answer. No, a constant, persistent internet connection is not required to play games. But yes, the Xbox One needs to check in with the internet at least once a day. So yes, it has to be connected to the internet, but no, not all the time. What this system means is that a brief internet outage won’t interrupt single player games like we’ve seen on the PC, but it also implies that if say, you don’t have an internet connection in your home, it might be pretty difficult to play games without the ability to “check in.” The purpose of that action is as of yet unclear, nor do we know what happens if the system cannot check in once a day. That said, the main issue people feared about an “always-on” console was that if their connection dropped they wouldn’t be able to play even a single player game, and that does not seem to be the case, which is a step in the right direction even if it’s not the full story." I tend to trust forbes more than some kind of gaming-centric website....Source = www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2013/05/22/microsoft-answers-xbox-one-questions-used-games-always-on-and-more/Everything still seems like A LOT of speculation at this point. Like i said previously I am waiting to pass judgment until microsoft starts to confirm/deny actual specifics. probably wont be until E3.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on May 22, 2013 11:21:10 GMT -5
Thanks. Must have missed that summary.
It would be interesting if you could trade games for games.
The 24 hour thing isn't a problem unless I get unlucky. Randomness happens. Storms/Outages/etc.
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Post by lazy on May 22, 2013 11:22:53 GMT -5
I'm not feeling a lot of love from M$ for their customers. though I have an idea if you don't like the Xbox 1 or PS4 why not play games on PC. also people buy games play for a couple of weeks and then part exchange if that stops new game sales are bound to drop.
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Post by ElysMustache on May 22, 2013 11:43:48 GMT -5
You mustn't have been here long, one of the seven deadly forum sins is to post a video from WoodysGamertag, Tmartn, or any other youtuber that thinks that they know how to play the game better than anyone else. It is a good video, and covers a topic that Woody has more knowledge about due to his career background than a lot of other people. As for the always-internet issue: I have had trouble with this on the current generation. I'm in the Navy and go to sea on a submarine from time to time. When I do, I like to bring my console with me. I tried playing Forza without an internet connection - and it would work fine, if you didn't have any DLC cars in your garage. But if you did have the DLC cars... not only would it not let you use them without internet to verify you had paid for the DLC... it wouldn't let you load the garage at all. If you wanted to play, you had to delete your entire garage - a substantial amount of gaming investment. Infuriating.
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Post by torrero on May 22, 2013 11:53:30 GMT -5
As for the always-internet issue: I have had trouble with this on the current generation. I'm in the Navy and go to sea on a submarine from time to time. When I do, I like to bring my console with me. I tried playing Forza without an internet connection - and it would work fine, if you didn't have any DLC cars in your garage. But if you did have the DLC cars... not only would it not let you use them without internet to verify you had paid for the DLC... it wouldn't let you load the garage at all. If you wanted to play, you had to delete your entire garage - a substantial amount of gaming investment. Infuriating. My expectations for the always on internet, is something like this. It is my OPINION (note, i have no proof, just speculation) that this is the type of system they will be going for (minus the whole garage not loading). I think that perhaps certain aspects of the game must check in online to verify they are paid for, but the core base game will work just fine w/o internet at all. again just my expectations.... but they have to know there is still a market out there of people who play offline only.
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Post by beavernator on May 22, 2013 13:10:24 GMT -5
How is this even relevant? That video by Woody isn't even about Call of Duty.
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Post by ElysMustache on May 22, 2013 14:03:39 GMT -5
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wings
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Post by wings on May 22, 2013 14:14:04 GMT -5
If Microsoft forces it, every developer will use it on PS4 as well. The era of used games is over. Wouldn't that be illegal in the EU?
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Post by otisman666 on May 22, 2013 14:19:38 GMT -5
This video hints a few answers to a number of the questions:
The guy beats around the bush on almost every issue, but he is at least HINTING at what the answers might be.
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Spectre
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Post by Spectre on May 22, 2013 14:21:21 GMT -5
not true because all the cable stuff won't mean jack sh it outside of america This.
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Post by otisman666 on May 22, 2013 14:39:21 GMT -5
not true because all the cable stuff won't mean jack sh it outside of america This. So currently there are apts for the Xbox 360 that allow you to interact with your cable box, the EU people have nothing like this?
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 22, 2013 15:13:30 GMT -5
Why is there an assumption that the elimination of the used games market is bad for consumers? The entire used games industry removes all profit from subsequent sales of the game from the creators and gives it to other companies. Look at Gamestop. You can download their 2011 Annual Report here: phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=130125&p=irol-reportsannualOn pages 51 and 52, you can see that in 2011, they had $2.62 billion in used game sales, resulting in $1.22 billion in profit. Think about that for a second. That's $1.22 billion that didn't go to the creators of the content, but to one company that essentially just provides a marketplace for buyers and sellers. They're robbing everyone blind. Every game you sell them, they turn around and flip for double the price. Were this to happen to you with another product, you would be incensed, but for some reason there are people defending this system. I'd much rather see a system where the content creators make revenue from all purchases of the game, increasing the amount of revenue they see and allowing them to increase investment into creating and supporting more quality games. There are methods of price discrimination so that both content creators come out ahead and consumers come out ahead by eliminating the enormous market inefficiency being exploited by used games retailers like Gamestop.
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Post by brutalonslaught on May 22, 2013 15:40:56 GMT -5
If they reduced the prices of games to the $20 region but made it a one off purchase, would that be good? Tends to be what PC games are now.
I only buy new games because I don't want my stuff to have been touched by other people. Fortunately financially I can afford to buy whatever I want but I still get pissed off when DLC is priced at a ridiculous level.
We do have netflix in the EU by the way...and ESPN. Obviously it doesn't show your American "sports" (really the loosest sense of the word) but decent stuff like football (soccer) and rugby. Don't you worry your pretty little head about it.
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 22, 2013 15:41:39 GMT -5
Exactly. Rather than complaining about the death of used games, people should be demanding to know what the replacement will be and that whichever console will deliver more competitive pricing will be the determining factor in which console they choose. This will make the message clear, and result in lower prices on both systems.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 15:48:31 GMT -5
Why is there an assumption that the elimination of the used games market is bad for consumers? The entire used games industry removes all profit from subsequent sales of the game from the creators and gives it to other companies I never understood this argument. They already made their money from the original sale. You're saying they deserve more money from the same copy?
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Post by lazy on May 22, 2013 15:59:43 GMT -5
you can buy or sell used cds dvds why not games, and don't forget if you make a poor decision in music or movie it has cost way less than a game.
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Post by torrero on May 22, 2013 16:04:57 GMT -5
Why is there an assumption that the elimination of the used games market is bad for consumers? The entire used games industry removes all profit from subsequent sales of the game from the creators and gives it to other companies I never understood this argument. They already made their money from the original sale. You're saying they deserve more money from the same copy? Essentially he is saying that by buying used copies of games you are acquiring content without compensating the people that created the content. By paying a 3rd party, you are taking potential dollars away from those that actually produce content. This reduces their overall revenue, and therefore reduces the amount of $$ they can spend on developing new games. Personally I am 100% ok without used games. I do think it is nice to have the option to trade games with friends, but I understand that just like the movie and music industries, video game publishers are looking to protect their IP (they just have a system that is much better suited to enforcing it, imagine if DVD players required you to input codes to play a movie!). I think in a few years this will be even less of a factor as I see games being downloaded directly onto consoles, eliminating the ability to share games at all. Basically i think its a very minor issue, and one that will vanish almost completely in a few years.
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Shakerag
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Post by Shakerag on May 22, 2013 16:06:46 GMT -5
He's just being a bit ch, like usual Do you often stutter when trying to say bit ch?
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 22, 2013 16:40:33 GMT -5
Why is there an assumption that the elimination of the used games market is bad for consumers? The entire used games industry removes all profit from subsequent sales of the game from the creators and gives it to other companies I never understood this argument. They already made their money from the original sale. You're saying they deserve more money from the same copy? Yes, I am. Are you saying that Gamestop deserves the money? It's intellectual property. The costs associated with the game are not the cost of manufacturing the disc, but the work of hundreds of people. You're not paying for the piece of plastic, you're paying for the work it takes to create the data it contains. Like I said before, there are plenty of ways that everyone except used-games companies could come out ahead. Take, for example, a game you were going to purchase used for $20, play, and sell back for $10. If instead, you could buy it for $10, then the publisher makes money it wouldn't otherwise, you end up paying the same price (or saving $10 had you decided to keep it), and other people who weren't willing to pay $20 for the game but are willing to pay $10 for it are able to get the game. And maybe that publisher takes that additional money it makes from the game and continues to support it further after launch because it's making more money over a longer period, or create more content for the game, or uses it to fund the production of an innovative, risky title it wouldn't have otherwise.
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Post by brutalonslaught on May 22, 2013 16:57:19 GMT -5
huh, I was just pulling that from some complaints I had read. could just be some parts I guess. besides don't all the non-us netflix subscriptions have significantly less stuff available for it? Yeah it's terrible
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on May 22, 2013 17:02:11 GMT -5
Then why not eliminate the third party? Return the game to the developers for say 50% of the game's current market price and let them sell it for 75%. You don't need to ruin GameStop's profit and leave at that, you can take that profit to yourself
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wings
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Post by wings on May 22, 2013 17:07:58 GMT -5
if someone is looking for a game, then by buying a used game, that is a potential sale of a new game for which the publisher gets no money for. So why is this argument made for computer games and not books, cars, music CDs and everything else then? Offer direct sales through DLC at a reasonable price and may be people will pay. Last I looked Halo 4 as DLC is £50. I can buy it as a disc for much less and it will have resale value. Gears of War 2 I think is £15 on sale o nthe dashboard, which is pretty good, but , again, I can get it for £5 as a disc. I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra as a digital download and supporting the developers etc but if the price difference is considerable then it doesn't make sense to pay over the odds. Edit: my most purchased itype of product used are academic books for studying while at university and I'd have paid for DRM'd electronic copies of books if they were even available but not many of them are, and when they are, they're extortionate. So a trip to Amazon and I make huge savings. And with academic books I'm very happy to place more value on electronic copies because of their size and weight. Would have made travelling to and from university much better. Joys of studying for a social science I guess.
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mmacola
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Post by mmacola on May 22, 2013 17:25:11 GMT -5
@mousey If the game isn't digital media, you're essentially taking the retailers out of the market when you create a fee for downloading and using the game. It is simply stupid to make the fee the same price as a new game. You're essentially saying to the end user "don't sell your games" and to the customer "buy a new one" And well, if the game IS digital media, you can't download a used one @thread I'll just leave this here for doo-doos and giggles
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Post by lazy on May 22, 2013 17:31:31 GMT -5
a small fee payable to the games producers wouldn't be too bad as long as M$ or SONY don't get to keep it. on a separate note surely a software or firmware update could stop always online or used discs or kinect spying on you if it affects sales of consoles too much, and im sure it would work the other way for SONY they could add features as the PS4 is coming with a 1080p camera aswell and they already have a TV gadget which turns your PS3 into a dvr and you can get Netflix and a few other channels on demand on PS3 as standard.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 22, 2013 17:37:13 GMT -5
So why don't more publishers sell their games direct to try and reduce the amount that leeches like Gamestop take from them? Wouldn't having them all purchasable on the Dashboard/PS Home reduce distribution costs for them?
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