Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 22:51:02 GMT -5
A massive problem with CoD zombies as well; the end-game was too focused around kiting enemies in a certain area and using gun x and y. I would recommend taking a look at Killing Floor; because it is a great example of a horde-mode FPS game that properly incentivizes variety in both weaponry and positioning. The only major issue I have with it is how it's only available on PC. All 7 classes were either designed with a strong utility role or they specialize in slaying a certain kind of enemy. We don't want a slayer that can handle every kind of enemy with ease. In Killing Floor every class had a theme around their weaponry; -SMGs that had an attachment which could heal allies from a distance -Shotguns and welders to close up doors and force chokes -Assault rifles that consistently dispatched many small enemies at any range -Pistols and higher-powered rifles for ranged and massive enemies -Powerful melee weapons to hold down doorways with no risk of running out of ammo and making great use of medics at every difficulty. -Incendiary weaponry for cheap Area of Effect/ Damage over Time weapons designed to kite -Explosives that are expensive, but well-suited for the biggest or closest clusters of enemies. Mod communities have even added additional classes like Heavy Gunner (a less mobile Commando), Akimbo Specialist (highly mobile slayer), and Engineer (repairs armor/ deploys sentry guns) What I like most about this system that I don't like about Ghosts' is how there's just one role designed for slaying. It's very general, and expanding on that would be ideal. I also think giving the engi/tank/medic a specific slaying role would be more than ideal. Imagine having each class specialize in two different weapon types that they can optimize the strengths of a weapon. Maybe a medic can have perks that lets him get larger magazine size on LMGs only with his points, and have the highest perk tier offer a larger magazine on his secondary weapon. Maybe that medic can also swap out his pistol for a launcher to deal with larger enemies, and flat-out increase the launcher's damage as he levels up in that area. In Killing Floor I love how it usually doesn't matter what unit composition players take up because it works no matter what. I would commend my idea of having each class specialize in two complimentary weapons, or just different weapons for that matter. Launchers and Assault Rifles, SMGs and Snipers, MRs and Shotguns. That sort of thing. Also keep in mind we no longer need to incentivize heavy usage of SMGs and ARs; if anything we need a reason to discourage people from using these all the time. In Killing Floor I love how players have to upgrade their weapons throughout the match, and while this probably has no business being implemented into Ghosts' Survival mode it's always nice to see. It's not common to see a competitive multiplayer FPS that inherently wants players to change their weapons throughout the match. A reason to move to random areas of the map like in Safeguard is probably an idea worth considering... maybe. KF had a major boss fight so players can dump all their cash into top gear and band together one last time. A boss fight may not be necessary, but the idea of an epic-scale fight at the end is already enough. Now... map design. Most Horde Mode games have an ideal position to lock down, but sometimes make it too obvious with with a doorway and a window overlooking the entire map- for that I think Safeguard is a terrible game in this aspect because of its map design. This is not good game design. There is no shame in designing maps with a lot of wide entrances, but keep in mind Killing Floor is designed for 6 player co-op. Many good horde mode games design their maps so that enemies can run through any key defensive position on the map, but Killing Floor makes it so that you want a pathway to retreat in most places. If one front gets overrun your squad just retreats down the other passageway. That's interesting and things like that have kept me playing Killing Floor for 16d6h. As always, that's just my two cents.
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Jan 20, 2014 0:18:27 GMT -5
I love how when a dev actually does stop by the most knowledgeable Call of Duty forum on the Internet to take suggestions, the first post is "$W4G."
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pachiderm
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Chewing some serious leaves
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Post by pachiderm on Jan 20, 2014 0:44:40 GMT -5
I love how when a dev actually does stop by the most knowledgeable Call of Duty forum on the Internet to take suggestions, the first post is "$W4G." Shoulda been "Pap Tahts"
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jan 20, 2014 5:58:17 GMT -5
On the the first hive take out the no damage challenge most ppl just restart it anyway I can imagine if you play solo or with randoms, but whenever we team up with our extincion squad (only 3 ppl, 2 just prestiged first time, the other is just lvl 20, so no veterans at all) we 90% of the time pass that challenge. Just back up into the corner. I like it when the first hive has a little bit of a challenge, because you can restart after failing it if you really want to, but at least have some kind of a challenge to do. Try backing up in the corner, it helps a ton. Sweetwater, I have never played that game, but I think the designers should be weiry that it doesn't become too complicated. This game is just a subplement of COD, and it would be nice if ppl can jump in and still play it kinda decently, without reading up on it etc. maybe for the next iteration of COD or something, once everybody is used to the concepts of extinction, but not to soon. It would be VERY cool for people teaming up and thinking it through, but it will make playing with randoms even harder. Maybe there needs to be some kind of a difference in playing with randoms and playing with a team. I don't know how though. Maybe make it just a tad harder / complicated. Maybe something like a masters mode, where everything will be harder, but you get an extra load-out option, in which you choose a weapon class, which you can then upgrade. Also, solo should just be a little easier in general. I don't agree that everything needs a buff (except for sentries) the game is not hard with 4 players... Maybe the multipliers for # aliens/damage which is in place for playing solo needs to be a little bigger/smaller. Please don't make it a walk in the park. Maybe just restrict a map to only having 4 sentry guns placed at once? Even 4 is quite allot though... Also as being said, some weapons are just worthless. like the snipers and shotguns. I actually like the 75% challenge in the first area, because you are forced to play with a shotgun, which is very doable at that stage, but in the last area buying a shotgun with your whole team to complete this challenge is horrible. Sure it is doable with 8 sentry-guns (like everything is) but that should not be a reason why a challenge is that hard. The better move is to nerf/restrict the sentry guns (a little bit!!) and make some of the challenges easier (90% of them are fine though!) I think restricting sentry guns to 4 simultaneous per map would be best, as they are still quite expensive and only become really overpowered in numbers. It will improve the overall balance in the game, which in turn will make it easier to balance everything else. Also, a longer map would be nice, I would love to upgrade my guy even further. and play with all those upgrades a little longer. Then maybe you could also spent some skill points on stuff like enlarging your purse. once all your skill points are spent on important things. Also one I forgot about. Once I have explosive ammo in my weapon, and I pick up additional explosive ammo, I need to reload. What the hell? You can compensate for it by picking it up once you have to reload anyway, but it is hella annoying. A fix for this would be awesome, like: find out which ammo is he actually carrying in his gun right now? is it the same he picked up, don't force a reload on him! It is one of those things that make playing without the weapon specialist something of a drag sometimes (together with not having stalker) Tog-able ammo would even be better, but there is a problem that the D-pad is kinda full as it is right now. Maybe select/back button + D pad to switch between special ammo kinds? and regular ammo once everything is empty? Would be a nice option. Having to throw down ammo in order to switch to armor piercing, even though your armor piercing ammo is full but in reserve, is annoying. Not something that breaks the game, but still annoying. It would also immediately fix the problem above, as the ammo doesn't actually need to change on pickup, you can equip it later. A fix for these two things could make the game allot less annoying, which favors fun IMHO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 18:25:28 GMT -5
The first time one came on the irc, kirb immediately said penis and he left. I specifically remember following that up with 'I agree, anus' before he left. I mean, if this guy went to the "Other games" section to get to the IRC he can't seriously expect us to discuss the slightest intricacies of the latest CoD 2 24/7, would he?
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Zero IX
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Post by Zero IX on Jan 20, 2014 19:52:53 GMT -5
On-topic: I think more enemy types which challenged the way players approach an individual wave would make things significantly more interesting. For example, "cloaked" aliens which would be difficult to see without Feral Instincts and/or unable to be targeted by Sentries. How about some freaky half-human, half-alien hybrids? Not only does it make for some interesting questions (and a touch of body horror!) for players who love to speculate, but they could be armed with bullet weapons and/or Riot Shields to throw a curveball at entrenched players. Weak flying aliens with projectiles that attack in packs could be interesting also in terms of forcing the player to look up. Ooh, and I would *love* to see a map where the player(s) is/are menaced and hunted by an almost unstoppable Nemesis-like super alien. It could be extremely exciting, especially if the player could be made to feel like he or she were "matching wits" with this super alien. P.S. Orionbrown please email Rubin a link to this post please I'll love you 4ever and ever :* :* :*
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 21:29:58 GMT -5
Sweetwater, I have never played that game, but I think the designers should be weiry that it doesn't become too complicated. The metagame with randoms usually boils down to the beginners picking whatever class they want, and the veterans rounding out the composition with their own builds. A game with lots of depth/complexity doesn't have to intimidate new players if the devs present too much info at once, but KF did well for the most-part. Most classes in the game have starter weapons that are very easy to use, very cheap, and remain effective at every stage of the game. They're only useless when taking on enemies designed to tank, and that's really about it. Even the default 9mm everyone starts with can still do work on Hard difficulty (3/5) and lower. It's hard to lose from a poor composition in this game. Six of the same class can win with the right setup can usually get the job done no matter what. There are situations where players can end up in a bad economy situation through no fault of their own. They join mid-game in the late game, they only have a 9mm, and they get slaughtered by the medium/high-tier enemies because all they have a is a 9mm. They might buy a basic-level weapon next round, maybe someone gives them money, maybe they don't. Then they get slaughtered again because they can't take on the tougher enemies because the team would not support them. They don't get any XP or very little, and they spend 5 minutes just sitting there, dead and frustrated. However, the good news is that beyond $3000 veteran players have to start giving away money knowing that they just can't spend that much. Even on the boss round demos just can't deploy more than $3000 in pipe bombs because 60 seconds isn't a lot of time. Different difficulty levels is a good idea. Noobs play with noobs on the default difficulty level, and you can expect the best of the best on the hardest difficulty. Left 4 Dead 2 proved this very well where random players play well together if players have the tools to do so. Pretty much every Valve game on every platform is built with the knowledge that most players don't have a mic. Players on PC can press Z, X, or C followed by a number to call out a certain command to his teammates without having to use a mic or type it in the chat for up to 27 commands.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 23:41:05 GMT -5
Going back to CoD:Ghosts' Survival mode health bars above enemy AI wouldn't hurt. Either a perk or a standard feature could ease players into the jist of things and ease them out of overkill. It's worth considering, but it's certainly not necessary.
I've found that in FPSes heavily built around PvE players generally don't like it when they can't outrun tougher enemies. If anyone remembers badass Skags and badass Stalkers from Borderlands 2 those were creatures that were very awkward to deal with in an average squad; the only answer was Legendary gear. Keeping the small guys fast works as is. If there are enemies that can outrun a player but can't be taken down easily, adding obstacles like a barrier that AIs can't vault over, speed perks, enemies that are situationally fast (i.e. a charge ability), or just tailoring all AIs to move slower than the player can work.
The economy system in this game is really solid for its simplicity IMO. Putting a very limited cap on how much money a player earns is a pretty big deal in incentivizing players to just spend their money. It forces a mindset to just activate all the things, and that's great.
As far as I can tell there really isn't an answer to determining how big a map should be, how many players the game should be designed for, or how much of a 'survival' element you want in there.
I should've probably noted sooner that the game is fine as is and the game really doesn't need need that much altering. I might be laying out concepts that may or not be worth considering for an audience that might not even align with the likes of Call of Duty's.
Also GIL'S LODGE MOTEL
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 0:28:27 GMT -5
Wait, teleporting enemies? Why didn't I think of that?!
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Post by Aphoristic on Jan 22, 2014 12:21:01 GMT -5
There also needs to be an afk detection system. Sure, there is readying, but that doesn't kick people from just sitting in the playlist all day.
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Post by orionbrown on Jan 22, 2014 16:39:04 GMT -5
I doubt he has a say in multiplayer at all, aside from relaying the feelings that I'm sure they are aware of. The PC version of extinction is okay. I've only had a few issues with other people I tried to play with taking long to load in for some reason. I guess they could optimize the map to play better, but I'm thinking it is more the whole game than just the specific map. What is it you mean by optimize the map to play better exactly?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 18:29:21 GMT -5
I think its important to note this isn't just an issue with Extinction, its the entire game (well, maybe excluding SP). To what Aphoristic said I've had long load times in MP and I've had people I've played with complain about the same thing. What's perplexing is that the long load times are inconsistent, sometimes load times are fine, other times they seem to take a lot longer than they should. The handful of times I've loaded up Extinction there have been a few instances where a person will spawn in but will still be loading. It makes the first challenge incredibly difficult to complete.
As Aphoristic said I'm sure people on the dev side are already aware but the PC version of the game is in desperate need of a performance overhaul.
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Post by orionbrown on Jan 22, 2014 19:09:50 GMT -5
he means optimize as in remove unneccessary elements (for instance, texturing the back of a wall that nobody sees) so that it loads better. Basically anything that can help with load times or performance without sacrificing gameplay. I understand what it means to optimize a map...lol, I was curious what he was talking about specifically since he was talking about also optimizing the game mode, which has nothing to do with removing elements etc.
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Post by Aphoristic on Jan 22, 2014 20:29:01 GMT -5
I doubt he has a say in multiplayer at all, aside from relaying the feelings that I'm sure they are aware of. The PC version of extinction is okay. I've only had a few issues with other people I tried to play with taking long to load in for some reason. I guess they could optimize the map to play better, but I'm thinking it is more the whole game than just the specific map. What is it you mean by optimize the map to play better exactly? I did mean performance wise, sorry for being unclear. I have played with people who load in significantly slower than everyone else, like up to a minute later. And I should absolutely not be seeing my frame rate vary from anywhere between 60-91 FPS on a 780ti at 1080p. If your team can fix performance on PC and start actually detecting and banning cheaters in both multi and extinction, then we would see a rise in the player base overnight. It absolutely feels like nobody cares about the PC players. It feels like we were lied to as we were promised the best graphics before release out of all the platforms. We were told there would be dedicated servers (although I guess that might not have applied to extinction.) If you want a list on what would make PC players happy in order of importance: 1. Start banning the cheaters. They are the biggest reason that half of the players have completely stopped playing. 2. Optimize the game's performance. This has to be the second biggest reason people have left, they couldn't enjoy the game at a low/unplayable framerate. 3. FoV slider in game so we don't have to rely on a 3rd party program. Also fix the scaling on the dual render scopes with different FoVs. 4. Raw mouse input. 5. Unlock the frame rate. 6. Keyboard/mouse support simultaneously with a controller. Why do I have to manually switch to and from the controller in the options when I only want it to better control killstreaks? 7. Matchmaking options/multiple audio sliders. Why are things Treyarch did first never in IW games? 8. A server browser, I mean you can literally just copy the one from CoD4. 9. Mod tools... Well, I can dream at least. Now back to suggestions on extinction. There is a lot to learn from Killing Floor. Spread the power so people don't just go some combination of medic and weapon specialist. Medic is invaluable. Passively regenerating health on allies faster, reviving them faster, ignoring the gas clouds to save people better, and movespeed? You must have been crazy giving them this much crap. Medic 2.0 (probably needs tweaks): - Revive allies faster. Deal more damage with SMGs. +1 Increased protection while reviving. Stalker for SMGs. +2 Teammates near you regenerate health faster. Quick draw for SMGs. +3 Ignore damage from gas clouds. Sleight of hand for SMGs. +4 Unlimited distance team health regen. Extended mags for SMGs. Tank is unappealing. Health and melee damage is boring. Spreading the increased health out into an increased amount of body armor would make sense. You typically want to avoid taking health damage in the first place, so a stronger body armor just makes sense to have. Spread it out so they gain: More health, more body armor, more melee damage. Better LMGs. Engineer is fine, toss on stronger shotguns or DMRs. Maybe both since they suck. I would also have suggested Snipers, but I don't want to encourage people to use them in this mode. Weapon specialist should be renamed to assault or something. Better assault rifles, and faster move speeds. Honestly, as long as they keep being the class that best uses assault rifles then they are fine. Toss in some more smaller powers if you can think of them.
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exxtrooper
True Bro
Who the fuck is Mousey
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Post by exxtrooper on Jan 23, 2014 14:16:23 GMT -5
Make more weapons useful.
And add some kind of chainsaw to the game.
Overall more weapons and more useful weapons.
Guns!
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Post by kylet357 on Jan 23, 2014 20:23:43 GMT -5
"Why are things Treyarch did first never in IW games?" Do you not remember MW3 theater mode?
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Post by Aphoristic on Jan 23, 2014 20:37:51 GMT -5
"Why are things Treyarch did first never in IW games?" Do you not remember MW3 theater mode? RIP in peace
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Post by kylet357 on Jan 23, 2014 20:49:02 GMT -5
Theater mode, AKA, Seizure mode
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 21:24:12 GMT -5
IIRC the original Starcraft's theater system was so sketchy replays showed players doing things they never actually did in game. They could move their units in the wrong direction, forget to build certain units, and that could make the replay a completely different game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 22:41:02 GMT -5
RTS games have to function off of just saving command orders and then replicating the result (thats why they network so easily despite having hundreds of stuff with its own AI). id imagine that it had to sacrifice some extra infofor filesize reasons back then, or it could just be a networking error (P2P is wonky like that) I figured that out for the mostpart; compression is a great thing until you realize your algorithm excludes too much information in certain situations. Then Indiana Jones is chasing your file because it's full of artifacts.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jan 25, 2014 13:33:42 GMT -5
"Why are things Treyarch did first never in IW games?" Do you not remember MW3 theater mode? Yeah, but that was more a Sledgehammer game than IW and their theater mode sucked. Now here's hoping for a Blops 1 type stat tracking and not a "Elite/CoD App" style in the next CoD.
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Post by kylet357 on Jan 25, 2014 20:42:47 GMT -5
I think I'd rather the stat tracking from BO2. It was a lot better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 0:32:40 GMT -5
Glorious Agency FB master race.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Jan 26, 2014 1:15:53 GMT -5
I think I'd rather the stat tracking from BO2. It was a lot better. In what regards?
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Post by kylet357 on Jan 26, 2014 10:37:15 GMT -5
Just had a bit more to it. You basically had Elite on your game already.
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Post by UrbaneVirtuoso on Jan 26, 2014 11:53:13 GMT -5
Nothing could compare to BO1s combat record -- it even showed you all your hit locations. My victims balls were sun-burned to the max. :3
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Post by kylet357 on Jan 26, 2014 12:28:24 GMT -5
wat
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Post by -3055- on Jan 26, 2014 15:34:52 GMT -5
Don't forget the amount of customization available in private matches.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Jan 27, 2014 5:44:40 GMT -5
BO1 combat record was awesome. I really miss it. I would like to see how much kills a killstreak gets on average for example. Would like to compare the dog with IMS and gryphon with helo pilot for example. Especially next to the fact that the developers already fool the gamers with fake in game gun stats, the combat record might at least show them some comparable results, to see how they do with everything. Would be greatly appreciated by all sorts of players. Also people I play with online which do not care about gun stats etc, still miss the bo1 combat record. I really don't know why they got rid of it, it is really a shame. It would be nice to have it in the app at least, but in game would be even better (99% because the app creaters are way more focused on making an app which is supposed to look cool than to make an app that actually works good... another fail to discus for another day...)
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Post by xFEARtheSHIELDx on Jan 30, 2014 2:01:17 GMT -5
Since stuff was changed in Extinction in the recent patch, I was hoping Orionbrown could give us some specifics...
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