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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on May 20, 2014 10:15:19 GMT -5
I wonder if there's a way to have different damage multipliers for hipfire and ADS. Give the hipfire pinpoint accuracy but only lethal at close ranges and only to the head but then give more damage multipliers when ADS. I dunno just throwing shit at the fan.
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 20, 2014 10:18:48 GMT -5
I wonder if there's a way to have different damage multipliers for hipfire and ADS. Give the hipfire pinpoint accuracy but only lethal at close ranges and only to the head but then give more damage multipliers when ADS. I dunno just throwing shit at the fan. What? Is people hipfiring snipers a problem? And could it not be solved by simply further increasing spread?
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on May 20, 2014 10:47:53 GMT -5
No I'm saying instead of quickscoping in close range they just hip fire but that it requires accuracy. I'd rather have a sniper I could hipfire like UT or TF2 then have shit hipfire that's nothing more than random and having to rely on quickscoping I dunno like I said just throwing shit out there.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 20, 2014 10:53:05 GMT -5
I think he was suggesting making hipfire more viable, but less lethal to discourage quickscoping in favor of hipfire. The useless hipfire spread actually encourages quickscoping at close range, though I wouldn't go so far as making hipfire precise on any weapon in CoD. I am in favor of making hipfire spread at least serve some purpose on sniper rifles. Not being able to hit a stationary target 3 feet in front of you without bringing up your scope is pointless. I don't just mean it's unrealistic, (which is not a particularly valid argument in an unrealistic shooter). I mean that it serves no purpose in the game. It would be better to swap it out for some other attack entirely such as a bayonet lunge or other melee style attack ala W@W and Davy Crockett, respectfully... or do something completely different. Mebbe a sniper could pull a pistol or something when not scoped. Just about anything would be better than the farting in their general direction that is hipspread covering half the screen on a weapon with a small magazine and often low RoF. All it does is encourage people to scope the sniper rifles every time, at every range.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 20, 2014 15:02:13 GMT -5
I don't think calling quickscoping OP is the right term. I think it's an exploit. The game is meant to have some reality attached to it. Hence why sniper rifles, assault rifles, shotguns, and pistols all work like their real life counterpart to a degree. However, the ability to tap the left trigger and your aiming spread be shrunk down to zero doesn't really make sense and isn't how the weapon was intended to be used. It's why Treyarch tried to combat it in BO, the developers of the very game themselves didn't want it. It's not how the weapon is supposed to be used. in my opinion Reality? If I shot you with a sniper rifle in the leg you wouldn't continue running afterwards. ARs have the ability to do some long distance killing that help make longer ranged guns redundent. There was no point using a sniper rifle in Black Ops 2 because I was getting cross map kills with the AN-94. So Ghosts comes along and makes sniping more viable and they ended up being nerfed anyway. It's the same when people moan about LMGs being too powerful and shotguns having too much range. If shotguns had a lot more range, the KSG using slug rounds in Black Ops 2 would have actually been awesome if the range was more like its real life counterpart. It is bad enough with the addd sway on the sniper rifles when using ACOG because it doesn't kick in until you fully ADS, so you might as well use a marksman rifle instead. Oh yeah, and the LMGs have been nerfed over instalments in various areas. The MTAR, last time I played, had more range and damage than some of the LMGs and with less recoil. How is that realistic when it contravenes Newton's laws of physics? Edit: I am sure sniper rifles are used for medium range quite well due to law enforcement bodies dispatching hostage takers with the PSG1 and the such, and we have attachments that support shorter ranged usage - iron sights (FN Ballista in BO2), red dot sight (MW3, campaign), and the ACOG. Oh yeah, SMGs had the thermal scope in MW3.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 20, 2014 15:19:55 GMT -5
The link to the survey thing was just to give me a reason to post this and show that it is a problem for half the community. Even if you assume then that the 36% who said they don't want anything to change would be angered that is still less than half the community who is upset (36% coming from the next question in that video). The actual suggestions weren't meant to be exact. I could say increase RoF, lower recoil, etc. Make changes to make the guns play better at range and worse up close. That's all that idea meant. Shotguns fall into the same category, yes. But they at least aren't being used outside of their range. They are already inconsistent enough against normal players and would need a slight adjustment probably to be balanced in a world with juggernaut. Making them always require two shots against a target with armor is just punishing them for being used in their correct role, unless there was clear indication of when an enemy had the armor. If there could be a good way to tell then things would probably be fine. As far as increasing ADS time, I'm not a big fan of it. I would greatly prefer nimble weak snipers to slow strong ones. I could go on to how I would never use an LMG because of how sluggish they are too. Using mobility as a major point of balance is just bad. There are plenty of other points to balance things with that keep the weapons from being unfun to use. And I'm not saying everything needs .2 ADS time and 100% movespeed. The differences between the fastest and slowest should be much smaller. Something as simple as: ARs: .25 ADS, 95% mobility SMGs/Pistols/Shotguns: .2 ADS, 100% mobility LMGs/Snipers/Launchers: .3 ADS, 90% mobility No stupid faster ADS or faster movespeed options either. Mobility is such a huge balance factor in the game that the differences should not be so drastic. ARs to have damage drop off to 0 damage after 30m or something. Let's see people moan about not being able to kill people with ARs outside of their range and see how many of them are those who hated on being railgund shall we? At least with small arms you can strafe without inaccuracy penalties or become a humanoid tortoise. You get perks and attachments that encroach on other weapon's abilities. AR with Quickdraw is just a glorified SMG. But that's okay but not on sniper rifles because of 'balance', supposedly.
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 20, 2014 16:40:02 GMT -5
Is there a problem with Sniper Rifles as they currently exist in Call of Duty: Ghosts?
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 20, 2014 16:55:58 GMT -5
Is there a problem with Sniper Rifles as they currently exist in Call of Duty: Ghosts? Apparently that depends who you ask/poll.
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Post by iw5000 on May 20, 2014 16:57:03 GMT -5
Is there a problem with Sniper Rifles as they currently exist in Call of Duty: Ghosts? The guns aren't overpowered. But in a typical lobby where randoms show up, far FAR to many randoms use sniping rifles as their gun choice. And when that happens, you get a game that breaks down into a pile of sh1t with no fun flow or pacing.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on May 20, 2014 17:32:34 GMT -5
So why are there so many? I seem to recall quickscoping being quite a thing in MW2, but it was still far from the majority of people doing it.
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Post by iw5000 on May 20, 2014 17:37:23 GMT -5
So why are there so many? I seem to recall quickscoping being quite a thing in MW2, but it was still far from the majority of people doing it. This is just what I see with Ghosts, but I would swear that when I play solo (like TDM), most of the lobby is sniping. And even on small maps like Strikezone.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 20, 2014 17:42:45 GMT -5
Is there a problem with Sniper Rifles as they currently exist in Call of Duty: Ghosts? No and they have been nerfed at least twice during the game, and that is not taking into account changes from MW3. The suppressor nerf was pretty damning as it was.
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Post by -3055- on May 20, 2014 20:12:41 GMT -5
I see maybe one sniper for every 10 players unless I'm playing stonehaven or freight on S&D.
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Post by thomasthetrain on May 20, 2014 22:01:23 GMT -5
ARs to have damage drop off to 0 damage after 30m or something. Let's see people moan about not being able to kill people with ARs outside of their range and see how many of them are those who hated on being railgund shall we? At least with small arms you can strafe without inaccuracy penalties or become a humanoid tortoise. You get perks and attachments that encroach on other weapon's abilities. AR with Quickdraw is just a glorified SMG. But that's okay but not on sniper rifles because of 'balance', supposedly. A lot of assault rifles (like the m4 carbine, or m16) are effective up to 500+m accuracy and other crap are problems of course, but the bullets still pack kill potential while maintaining a pretty stead acceleration up to around that distance. No fights in CoD really seem to be 500m's away so i guess AR's should be effective in every map..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 22:22:41 GMT -5
I see maybe one sniper for every 10 players unless I'm playing stonehaven or freight on S&D. And there was a 7 in 10 chance he looked like this:
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on May 20, 2014 22:30:06 GMT -5
I'm in the 30%. I was too busy using USR+ Silencer pre patch to bother with the Ghillie. Eh now I barely snipe when I do play.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 21, 2014 5:07:25 GMT -5
ARs to have damage drop off to 0 damage after 30m or something. Let's see people moan about not being able to kill people with ARs outside of their range and see how many of them are those who hated on being railgund shall we? At least with small arms you can strafe without inaccuracy penalties or become a humanoid tortoise. You get perks and attachments that encroach on other weapon's abilities. AR with Quickdraw is just a glorified SMG. But that's okay but not on sniper rifles because of 'balance', supposedly. A lot of assault rifles (like the m4 carbine, or m16) are effective up to 500+m accuracy and other crap are problems of course, but the bullets still pack kill potential while maintaining a pretty stead acceleration up to around that distance. No fights in CoD really seem to be 500m's away so i guess AR's should be effective in every map.. That's my point though. Sniper rifles aren't completely useless in short ranged engagements either and they're not always heavy as people make them out to be. The KSG with slug rounds will have a OHK range longer than in BO2 etc. I just find the balance exceptionalism towards sniper rifles a bit tedious, look at Sleight of Hand/Quickdraw with them over different titles for example. I mean if people want to make sniper rifles completely useless in short ranged engagements then the same needs to be applied to other weapons outside of their optimal use too. I find it easier to kill with ARs at considerable distance when LMGs or sniper rifles may be preferred than quickscoping. Fully automatic, accurate strafing, no secondaries needed, more ARs on the floor to pick up when low on ammo, better benefits when using Quickdraw, no loss of peripheral vision when aiming down the sites etc all outweigh trying to use a sniper rifle quickscoping IMO. I don't mind people not liking it but to say it's overpowered because there's some use with sniper rifles being used in CQC when ARs perform just as well for the longer sight lines in COD games and ignoring that is just hypocritical. I mean in MW3 if you wanted to use a semi-automatic sniper rifle you might as well just use the MK14 instead because its 2HK range covered most of the longer sight lines in the game.
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Post by iw5000 on May 21, 2014 6:18:01 GMT -5
I see maybe one sniper for every 10 players unless I'm playing stonehaven or freight on S&D. And there was a 7 in 10 chance he looked like this: That was funny.
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Post by daftpunk on May 21, 2014 11:26:56 GMT -5
2 of the main reasons i quit playing BO2 , 1 - poor net code /hit detection , whatever you want to call it 2 - lobbies full of railgunners
I dont mind random Q/S ers but when the game is full of em and start ruining the flow of the game im f'kin done
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Post by thomasthetrain on May 21, 2014 11:58:54 GMT -5
2 of the main reasons i quit playing BO2 , 1 - poor net code /hit detection , whatever you want to call it 2 - lobbies full of railgunners I dont mind random Q/S ers but when the game is full of em and start ruining the flow of the game im f'kin done hmmm why would a bunch of free kills ruin game flow? Isn't CoD basically just about stomping the other team? Seems like a bunch of easy kills would be ideal.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on May 21, 2014 12:27:28 GMT -5
If the free kills are on your team then not so much, eh?
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Post by iw5000 on May 21, 2014 13:19:33 GMT -5
2 of the main reasons i quit playing BO2 , 1 - poor net code /hit detection , whatever you want to call it 2 - lobbies full of railgunners I dont mind random Q/S ers but when the game is full of em and start ruining the flow of the game im f'kin done hmmm why would a bunch of free kills ruin game flow? Isn't CoD basically just about stomping the other team? Seems like a bunch of easy kills would be ideal. Hmmm no. it's not ideal. It actually sucks, if you ever get to experience this over time. Over time, there is nothing fun about winning 75-15 (TDM) or 200-40 (Dom) type of games, as it get boring. It gets boring because the above type of sniping asshats tend to quit faster than the rest of the player population. These people, most all snipers, aren't looking to play the game mode, they are looking for cheap sniping kills. Cheap/easy kills to fulfill a camo challenge, or sniping challenge, or a youtube trick or whatever it may be (that doesn't involve actually playing the game mode). They get into a lobby that doesn't give them that, they quit. That makes for BAD gameplay. And if they aren't quitting, they are just usually sitting in obscure corners of the map. The game just becomes a run around the map and look for people game. That's not fun either. The 'fun' in stomping an opponent, is in stomping an opponent...THAT IS PLAYING THE SAME GAME AS YOU.
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Post by Aphoristic on May 21, 2014 14:07:55 GMT -5
2 of the main reasons i quit playing BO2 , 1 - poor net code /hit detection , whatever you want to call it 2 - lobbies full of railgunners I dont mind random Q/S ers but when the game is full of em and start ruining the flow of the game im f'kin done hmmm why would a bunch of free kills ruin game flow? Isn't CoD basically just about stomping the other team? Seems like a bunch of easy kills would be ideal. A lobby full of QSers is not fun to play in. Dying even once to them (which will happen) is the worst feeling in the game. Even if you win it doesn't make up for any number of deaths to them.
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wings
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Post by wings on May 21, 2014 14:09:42 GMT -5
2 of the main reasons i quit playing BO2 , 1 - poor net code /hit detection , whatever you want to call it 2 - lobbies full of railgunners I dont mind random Q/S ers but when the game is full of em and start ruining the flow of the game im f'kin done Or you could, you know, team up with some buddies and play as a full team so they are not on your side or play FFA?
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 21, 2014 15:41:18 GMT -5
I think the "lobby of QSers" is overstated/hyperinflated.
In MW3, out of a 5on 5 core TDM PS3 lobby, 2 or 3 would be QSer.... BO2... 1, maybe 2. In Ghosts, there are a lot of snipers, but hardly.... hardly lobbies of QSers.
C'mon.............. lobbies of QSers.... chuckle; let's put the drama-llama's back in the stable for a much needed rest.
lobbies of qsers....
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on May 21, 2014 15:41:38 GMT -5
double..... hmmmmmmm
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Post by iw5000 on May 21, 2014 16:00:00 GMT -5
I've seen solo TDM recently on Ghosts, where most of the 11 other players are sniping. Most of them suck, but they were sniping. It's not uncommon. And see a map like Whiteout, Stormfront, Stonehaven, it's almost a given most players will be sniping.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on May 21, 2014 16:23:21 GMT -5
And I rarely see even one so.
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Post by thomasthetrain on May 21, 2014 16:27:33 GMT -5
hmmm why would a bunch of free kills ruin game flow? Isn't CoD basically just about stomping the other team? Seems like a bunch of easy kills would be ideal. Hmmm no. it's not ideal. It actually sucks, if you ever get to experience this over time. Over time, there is nothing fun about winning 75-15 (TDM) or 200-40 (Dom) type of games, as it get boring. It gets boring because the above type of sniping asshats tend to quit faster than the rest of the player population. These people, most all snipers, aren't looking to play the game mode, they are looking for cheap sniping kills. Cheap/easy kills to fulfill a camo challenge, or sniping challenge, or a youtube trick or whatever it may be (that doesn't involve actually playing the game mode). They get into a lobby that doesn't give them that, they quit. That makes for BAD gameplay. And if they aren't quitting, they are just usually sitting in obscure corners of the map. The game just becomes a run around the map and look for people game. That's not fun either. The 'fun' in stomping an opponent, is in stomping an opponent...THAT IS PLAYING THE SAME GAME AS YOU. TDM is an awful game mode it has been in every CoD since 4, and probably before that even. And it's fun as heck to stomp games on domination or ctf, or SnD. Even if i consistently win games by a ton (which when i played CoD 4 promod on PC probably 70% of scrims were complete stomps with sometimes as far as 12-0 halves) it is still fun. For me the fun is found in the skill celiing, and the depth of the game as well as playing with friends. If the game has deep gameplay and a high skill ceiling it's always enjoyable. Hell i've played tf2 for like 5 years now? And if i put forth my fullest effort and play with 2-3 friends i can pull like 10:1 k/d and somtimes as absurd as like 15 or 20:1. And the game is still a blast. If you can't have fun with the game just by the depth of the game alone.. idk maybe you should play a different game, hell i could play tf2 alone in a server for a few hours and still have fun doing jump maps or a puzzle map. I can do the same with sc2, wc3, quake, CS etc.. Also you call it cheap/easy kills, are quick scoping kills easier than other kills in your opinion? That seems absurd.
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Post by TheHawkNY on May 21, 2014 16:28:12 GMT -5
I've seen solo TDM recently on Ghosts, where most of the 11 other players are sniping. Most of them suck, but they were sniping. It's not uncommon. And see a map like Whiteout, Stormfront, Stonehaven, it's almost a given most players will be sniping. You just listed a who's who of factors that lead to Sniper usage - absence of objective, bad players, and large bad maps.
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