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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 12, 2014 16:26:33 GMT -5
So that's where you came from. You could go back you know. But anyway, Hawk already posted the PC sales numbers. I'm honestly not surprised that you keep getting matched up with the same people on PC. I doubt there're more than 20000 people playing the PC version at peak hours. I've actually been a member here looong before I ever started to read posts on reddit or the COD forums. I don't even post in this places, I just read what people have to say. TF2 is free to play. Let's not even get into that discussion. It doesn't matter if it's free or not. If someone is irritated by the lack of SBMM, they're going to stop playing. In fact they're even more likely to quit playing if it's f2p because they haven't made any investment in it. So, the people here are okay with SBMM in pubs. They welcome it with open arms, consider it a blessing from the lord. That's fine, as long as people aren't still denying that it has a very large impact on public matchmaking just because the devs don't officially admit it themselves. As long as people acknowledge that it's not some wild imagination, we can agree to disagree. However, I'm not backing down from my claim that real SBMM was not implemented until BO2, and it also wasn't implemented in Ghosts. I have reverse-boosted in each and every COD game going back to COD4 and it ONLY makes an impact in BO2 and AW. Go ahead and try it yourself if you have the time. Really? Do you have any data? I have data. Here's my performance from BO2: Week | KDR | Matches | Kills | Deaths | 11/12/2012 | 1.04 | 78 | 1120 | 1075 | 11/19/2012 | 1.09 | 109 | 1993 | 1825 | 11/26/2012 | 1.17 | 146 | 2088 | 1778 | 12/3/2012 | 1.28 | 37 | 770 | 601 | 12/10/2012 | 1.26 | 62 | 1042 | 829 | 12/17/2012 | 1.17 | 140 | 2613 | 2227 | 12/31/2012 | 1.48 | 125 | 2325 | 1574 | 1/7/2013 | 1.48 | 113 | 2295 | 1549 | 1/14/2013 | 1.41 | 151 | 3237 | 2292 | 1/21/2013 | 1.35 | 56 | 1200 | 892 | 1/28/2013 | 1.44 | 114 | 2560 | 1773 | 2/4/2013 | 1.37 | 149 | 2987 | 2182 | 2/11/2013 | 1.44 | 84 | 1566 | 1088 | 2/18/2013 | 1.18 | 125 | 2249 | 1904 | 2/25/2013 | 1.51 | 143 | 2917 | 1936 | 3/4/2013 | 1.57 | 137 | 2795 | 1783 | 3/11/2013 | 1.65 | 172 | 3490 | 2118 | 4/1/2013 | 1.5 | 182 | 3337 | 2227 | 4/8/2013 | 1.33 | 102 | 1939 | 1460 | 4/15/2013 | 1.52 | 89 | 2142 | 1406 | 4/22/2013 | 1.75 | 123 | 2440 | 1391 | 5/6/2013 | 1.84 | 28 | 472 | 257 | 5/13/2013 | 1.97 | 143 | 2743 | 1393 | 5/20/2013 | 1.91 | 162 | 2757 | 1442 | 6/3/2013 | 1.44 | 55 | 839 | 582 | Grand Total | 1.43 | 2825 | 53916 | 37584 |
(I assume I did not bother to collect data the week of 12/24 because I didn't play enough, it was the holidays, etc.) Notice the significant K/D increase the week of 12/31? There were no patches during that time frame. Do you think that it's a coincidence that my K/D increased significantly? Do you think I got significantly better at the game by playing less frequently? Or do you think that it was Christmas noobs? Do you think that my experience was different from everyone else? Or do you think it's what I've been saying all along, that everyone always complains about SBMM when the game first comes out because they get paired with more skilled players, not realizing it's only skilled players that have the game when it first comes out, and the impact of SBMM is negligible compared to the impact of the skill of the playerbase? I'm sick of complaints filled with quantifiable feelings and anecdotal evidence, as is almost everyone else on the forum. Bring some data to back up your points, or you're just burning everyone's brain cells.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 12, 2014 16:57:42 GMT -5
Play 5 games on my main account...Then hop on a throwaway account and do the same. I'll tell you how it goes. I'd advise you to not waste your time: the obvious confounding factor here is sample size.
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n1gh7
True Bro
Black Market Dealer
Posts: 11,718
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 12, 2014 17:15:46 GMT -5
So that's where you came from. You could go back you know. But anyway, Hawk already posted the PC sales numbers. I'm honestly not surprised that you keep getting matched up with the same people on PC. I doubt there're more than 20000 people playing the PC version at peak hours. I've actually been a member here looong before I ever started to read posts on reddit or the COD forums. I don't even post in this places, I just read what people have to say. I've been a member here looong before you. So therefore everything I say is better, more correct, and more important. TF2 is free to play. Let's not even get into that discussion. It doesn't matter if it's free or not. If someone is irritated by the lack of SBMM, they're going to stop playing. In fact they're even more likely to quit playing if it's f2p because they haven't made any investment in it. So, the people here are okay with SBMM in pubs. They welcome it with open arms, consider it a blessing from the lord. That's fine, as long as people aren't still denying that it has a very large impact on public matchmaking just because the devs don't officially admit it themselves. As long as people acknowledge that it's not some wild imagination, we can agree to disagree. However, I'm not backing down from my claim that real SBMM was not implemented until BO2, and it also wasn't implemented in Ghosts. I have reverse-boosted in each and every COD game going back to COD4 and it ONLY makes an impact in BO2 and AW. Go ahead and try it yourself if you have the time. SBMM was in COD2. So no.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 12, 2014 17:22:14 GMT -5
I've been a member here looong before you. So therefore everything I say is better, more correct, and more important. No, no, no. All those things are true, but only because you're a true bro.
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n1gh7
True Bro
Black Market Dealer
Posts: 11,718
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 12, 2014 17:31:03 GMT -5
I've been a member here looong before you. So therefore everything I say is better, more correct, and more important. No, no, no. All those things are true, but only because you're a true bro. I'm also a "Black Market Dealer". So that makes me even better.
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Post by thegentleman on Dec 12, 2014 19:37:52 GMT -5
3. If it were to be tested statistically, is there a way to gather K/D (and other stats) of the other players in the lobby easily? Back when BOII came out, I tried to quantify whether SBMM was a "thing" or not. I don't have PS Plus yet, so I can't test the degree to which this is true, but you could repeat a lot of the math that I did here: denkirson.proboards.com/thread/5524/quick-statistical-test-sbmmShort version: I had a KDR of 1.41 and the average KDR of the lobbies I was put into (10+ lobbies and with more than about 120 players recorded) was 1.26. Basically, the KDR test comes down to finding an "average" KDR and comparing it to a mean. Thinking back on it, that's a little bit of a dicey proposition. All players averaged out across everything should have a KDR of less than 1.0 because of suicides and environmental deaths, but players of a better skill level are (arguably) more likely to have fun and be online at any given time. If we do conclude that a 1.0 KDR is a true mean (again, a big assumption), then my own data with BOII showed that SBMM was indeed a thing with more than 99% statistical confidence. Since I haven't played AW online yet, I don't know how easy or hard it is to find a person's KDR. Apparently you can do it, but AW doesn't make it easy?
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Pentaza
True Bro
Most kills, fewest deaths.
Posts: 304
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Post by Pentaza on Dec 12, 2014 23:13:51 GMT -5
Back when BOII came out, I tried to quantify whether SBMM was a "thing" or not. I don't have PS Plus yet, so I can't test the degree to which this is true, but you could repeat a lot of the math that I did here: denkirson.proboards.com/thread/5524/quick-statistical-test-sbmmShort version: I had a KDR of 1.41 and the average KDR of the lobbies I was put into (10+ lobbies and with more than about 120 players recorded) was 1.26. Basically, the KDR test comes down to finding an "average" KDR and comparing it to a mean. Thinking back on it, that's a little bit of a dicey proposition. All players averaged out across everything should have a KDR of less than 1.0 because of suicides and environmental deaths, but players of a better skill level are (arguably) more likely to have fun and be online at any given time. If we do conclude that a 1.0 KDR is a true mean (again, a big assumption), then my own data with BOII showed that SBMM was indeed a thing with more than 99% statistical confidence. Since I haven't played AW online yet, I don't know how easy or hard it is to find a person's KDR. Apparently you can do it, but AW doesn't make it easy? Thanks for posting that - it is the type of discussion I was trying to get going when I started this thread. Not sure how, but I missed your BOII thread first time around. Maybe it was just before I joined this forum. It's hard to get stats on any other opponent in AW. As far as I can figure out, you can't see opponents stats from the in-game menus. However, after a bit of digging, it appears possible with this website: codtracker.netWhen I get some time (in about a week or so) I'm going to try and gather some stats, using the same approach you took in BOII. It will be a bit of a pain to do so, because I'm going to have to grab photos of the lobbies and then look players up one-by-one on that website afterwards, but I'm curious enough to invest the time to get an initial sample.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 15, 2014 13:35:14 GMT -5
As I mentioned in that thread, you took an un-weighted average of the K/D ratios, which will likely skew the K/D ratio to be higher.
Additionally, the K/D ratio of players in the lobby is not necessarily evidence of anything pertaining to SBMM, because we don't know anything about the distribution of K/D across the entire playerbase or active playerbase.
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Spectre
True Bro
Guardian.
Posts: 89
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Post by Spectre on Dec 17, 2014 12:58:58 GMT -5
lol this again
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 17, 2014 14:58:57 GMT -5
3. If it were to be tested statistically, is there a way to gather K/D (and other stats) of the other players in the lobby easily? Back when BOII came out, I tried to quantify whether SBMM was a "thing" or not. I don't have PS Plus yet, so I can't test the degree to which this is true, but you could repeat a lot of the math that I did here: denkirson.proboards.com/thread/5524/quick-statistical-test-sbmmShort version: I had a KDR of 1.41 and the average KDR of the lobbies I was put into (10+ lobbies and with more than about 120 players recorded) was 1.26. Basically, the KDR test comes down to finding an "average" KDR and comparing it to a mean. Thinking back on it, that's a little bit of a dicey proposition. All players averaged out across everything should have a KDR of less than 1.0 because of suicides and environmental deaths, but players of a better skill level are (arguably) more likely to have fun and be online at any given time. If we do conclude that a 1.0 KDR is a true mean (again, a big assumption), then my own data with BOII showed that SBMM was indeed a thing with more than 99% statistical confidence. Since I haven't played AW online yet, I don't know how easy or hard it is to find a person's KDR. Apparently you can do it, but AW doesn't make it easy? a small sample of ten games will never be enough. For all we know, you got some dumb luck and got placed up against three or four groups of people playing together. If they were decent groups, they probably all had higher KD's, which would instantly skew any findings you have, and make your results meaningless. You can't isolate that type of stuff out when doing these testing examples.
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Pentaza
True Bro
Most kills, fewest deaths.
Posts: 304
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Post by Pentaza on Dec 17, 2014 19:06:22 GMT -5
Additionally, the K/D ratio of players in the lobby is not necessarily evidence of anything pertaining to SBMM, because we don't know anything about the distribution of K/D across the entire playerbase or active playerbase. I've seen two factors mentioned explicitly (one yours): * Split-screeners (probably raises the K/D of the overall population). * Self-inflicted deaths (lowers the K/D of the overall population). And a couple of others that I can think of: * Rage-quitting (almost certainly raises the K/D of the overall population). * Reset all stats prestige option, if that's in AW (probably lowers the K/D of the overall population). However, I think it's unlikely that these factors combined will take the median or weighted mean K/D a meaningful way from 1.0.
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Post by bucket415 on Dec 18, 2014 10:37:52 GMT -5
Its more than just KD. SPM is certainly included. Probably KS / PS call ins and even objective play is included in some way. Same way that you have to play 5 games to get ranked in League play (at least how it was done in BLOPs2), it being done on a similar level in pubs. Everyone gets a ranking and they try and put all of the "silver" players together, "gold" players together, "wood" (really bad) players together, etc. Which is all fine, except that the current perception is that SBMM is 90% of the matchmaking equation. Most people think that they are getting matched up with Juan from Venezuela, instead of Justin from Indiana, because of it, and therefore lag.
I played some MW2 & MW3 over the weekend. MW2 runs different than MW3. MW2 can lag (jitter, screen freezes, rubber band, etc). MW3 gives you those "lag comp" moments, where you have no time to react. Where it looks like you die in 1 or 2 bullets, but the kill cam shows the guy shooting for 4 seconds, where it seems your bullets aren't counting, etc. There are good lobbies and bad. MW2 is almost unplayable because of hackers. It was ridiculous. Even MW3 had a bunch of hackers, but it was discernibly more rare. MW2 was 9 / 10 games. MW3 was 4 out of 10, maybe because of the in game report player feature? IDK.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 18, 2014 11:12:36 GMT -5
Additionally, the K/D ratio of players in the lobby is not necessarily evidence of anything pertaining to SBMM, because we don't know anything about the distribution of K/D across the entire playerbase or active playerbase. I've seen two factors mentioned explicitly (one yours): * Split-screeners (probably raises the K/D of the overall population). * Self-inflicted deaths (lowers the K/D of the overall population). And a couple of others that I can think of: * Rage-quitting (almost certainly raises the K/D of the overall population). * Reset all stats prestige option, if that's in AW (probably lowers the K/D of the overall population). However, I think it's unlikely that these factors combined will take the median or weighted mean K/D a meaningful way from 1.0. Keep in mind the stuff I write next, when even discussing the KD ratio. The KD is a junk stat for the most part and has little reflection on reality of skill in CoD. Yes, killing or 'slaying' is one of the most important things you need to know how to do in a FPS, but this particular stat becomes less and less a barometer of skill as you progress past say 1.25 and especially past 1.50. And almost meaningless once you get into the areas above 2.0 Why? Talks like this thread almost ALWAYS fail to take into consideration that a healthy portion of the player base, back in the days before CoD-AW, routinely dashed out of games, thereby deleting their bad results. For example. A player does five games, going 100-50. He's now a '2.0' KD player and now a stud, feeling all good. He then runs into a full partied-up opponent in his 6th game, and is gets wrecked, going 10-25. IF that gave registers, his KD is going to plummet, and be sitting at a 1.46. All that progress he did will be gone. What's he to do? He just dashboards that result. His stats now still show him as 2.0 player and those deaths he experienced vanish from the CoD player universe. On a lessor scale, he doesn't even have to Dash. If every time he even gets a whiff of a tough game, all he has to do it quit the game (via the exit button) asap, and simply avoid any potential deaths/bad game he might suffer. Again, this distorts the reality of what his KD ratio might represent. And in addition to those two things, the most abused way people work this stat is they just run Objective games like KC or Dom, and simply use teammates as meatshields, under the pretense of playing the 'killer role'. It takes no skill to watch two teammates get shot up capping a flag, while you hang back getting a few cheap kills, then running away, repeating and rinsing the whole game. If you lose, no big deal, you just stress how great your KD is. Again, for a third time, this just distorts the reality of what his KD might represent. The above is how almost EVERY high KD player plays. Anyone who says differently is a liar and probably one of the above people who doesn't like being called out on it, that their stat is mostly fake. Let's be real. People's egos are entirely connected with KD in this game, especially people who have higher KD's. Their self worth (in CoD) is connected to it, and it becomes a drug to them. THAT is why a thread about SBMM resurfaces every year. People are pissed their KD's aren't as high. THAT is why they don't want harder opponents. Does anyone truly think a truly skilled MLG player like Optic's Nadeshot or any of those guys gives a rat's ass what their profile account KD is? Does anyone think a person like Nadeshot is jacked off about playing hard opponents? LMAO. Hell no, doesn't care. He or any real MLG player don't care, is because they understand that 'playing better opponents = improved REAL skills over time". And ultimately, what they want, is real skill improvement. Any person who has ever done real competition gets this very basic principle. You don't get better at a skill, practicing or playing against bad people. Fundamental truth there. 98 out of 100 CoD players, and almost all high KD players? They don't understand the above principle. They don't get it because ultimately they aren't competitive in nature nor have ever done any real sports or competition. They are mostly posturing asshats, nerds who are looking for the easy road, the 'cheat', the 'glitch', whatever it may be to give them themselves the public appearance of looking good. You can't pull that trick off in real sports that involve skill. In video games? Unfortunately, you can. Which is why, again, threads like SBMM keep coming up every year.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Dec 18, 2014 11:47:03 GMT -5
Additionally, the K/D ratio of players in the lobby is not necessarily evidence of anything pertaining to SBMM, because we don't know anything about the distribution of K/D across the entire playerbase or active playerbase. I've seen two factors mentioned explicitly (one yours): * Split-screeners (probably raises the K/D of the overall population). * Self-inflicted deaths (lowers the K/D of the overall population). And a couple of others that I can think of: * Rage-quitting (almost certainly raises the K/D of the overall population). * Reset all stats prestige option, if that's in AW (probably lowers the K/D of the overall population). However, I think it's unlikely that these factors combined will take the median or weighted mean K/D a meaningful way from 1.0. I believe split-screeners actually use their own PSN/XBL account in AW, so they would not change the K/D of the population. The median, mean, and weighted mean could potentially be three very different numbers. Even if we say that due to all of the mentioned factors, the weighted mean of K/D of a single game will be very close to 1.0, and the weighted mean of K/D of all players is very close to 1.0, that doesn't mean that the unweighted mean or the median are very close to 1.0 as well. Taking the sample of some lobbies you are in is essentially a test of whether you see players of more similar skill to you than you would if players were placed in lobbies without regard for player skill. But here's the issue - you don't know what that control group (lobbies made without regard for player skill) would look like. You don't know the population of players at each skill level, or the frequency with which they play. I think we can operate under the assumption that there is likely a bunch of players that are good that play frequently, and a bunch of players that are bad that play infrequently, but we really don't know the size of each group, how good they are, and how frequently they play. So you don't have a baseline for comparison of your test results.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 18, 2014 12:25:46 GMT -5
Hawk.
Years ago, I did research on this one night. It's on this board somewhere. Here's part of it (data coming from MW3)
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Post by bucket415 on Dec 18, 2014 17:06:48 GMT -5
I had a 2.0+ in MW3...until I tried to max out the shotguns.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 18, 2014 19:44:39 GMT -5
And then you had a 4+?
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 19, 2014 8:51:26 GMT -5
This isn't any case for or against SBMM. But I thought I would relate this story. It's no secret I am struggling in CoDAW. I've been playing Destiny, been on a few trips with no Xbox, and pretty much haven't played the game that much. When I have played here or there, I have been struggling mightily. My KD is around 1.1 or so. (my end KD in CoD Ghosts was 2.65)
We did a Clan Wars round last night. Did well. I played with some guys who have logged in a lot of time, and have KD's in the 1.9 to 2.1 range. We played A LOT of other groups all night. Opponents with yellow clan tags, most of the time. So after about 10 games, our work was done. I had a lot of ups and downs. Three of our guys get off. That leaves me, Witty, Corona (pick him up) and Edog. My KD might have been the best of the bunch.
What happens next? Over the next four games, I proceed to have THE best four game of stretch of CoDAW I have had yet. Like 43, 37, 35 and 28 kill games. The first couple games, we got lobbies of entire no-prestige yet opponents, who we unmercifully beat down. In one game, on the Prison map, I just stood in the side hallway in one sequence and got like nine straight kills without even moving.
Call of Duty can be a widely fluctuating experience, depending on who you play.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 19, 2014 10:08:04 GMT -5
iw, my understanding is that you primarily spawn trap in Dom.
Are you familiar with the spawns yet in AW? They're unpredictable and learning them will greatly increase your performance.
Also, obligatory sample size. You went from playing full parties to randoms.
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Post by mrbone2u on Dec 19, 2014 10:30:00 GMT -5
iw, my understanding is that you primarily spawn trap in Dom. Are you familiar with the spawns yet in AW? They're unpredictable and learning them will greatly increase your performance. Also, obligatory sample size. You went from playing full parties to randoms. the dom spawns in this game dont make any sense. Ive seen enemies spawn right on our spawn point at a flag we own. They wont always spawn near their own flags. Seems like tdm sometimes with the randomness.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 19, 2014 10:46:58 GMT -5
iw, my understanding is that you primarily spawn trap in Dom. Are you familiar with the spawns yet in AW? They're unpredictable and learning them will greatly increase your performance. Also, obligatory sample size. You went from playing full parties to randoms. mega...see the " This isn't any case for or against SBMM. But I thought I would relate this story".....not trying to make any case with my story. Just sharing an experience with opponent quality. Spawn trapping in Dom? No. Maybe three years ago during MW3. That was a long time ago. Am I familiar with the spawns? Not yet. Haven't played enough. But it's not rocket science, it's just pattern memorization, as well as memorization/familiarization of people's paths around the maps. That's just a function of time played. Same deal with the shooting and tracking of enemies.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 19, 2014 10:56:17 GMT -5
Right and I agree with you: Call of Duty can be a widely fluctuating experience, depending on who you play. The players with which you are matched ultimately will determine your performance as player quality varies wildly. (Also, it's "whom", here.) But it sounds like you just need to put more time in. You read these forums so you know that most of us are struggling to match previous games' KDs.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 19, 2014 11:48:05 GMT -5
I am on an iphone, please relax out on the grammar. I am lucky I get any message out on it.
I'm not worried about my KD. I left that silliness behind years ago. The last two years, I pretty much only play for the Clan Wars aspects, and all that's important there is the 'W' and your ranking. The important CW stuff doesn't start for a few more months, so plenty of time to mess around and get one's shit together.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 19, 2014 12:10:39 GMT -5
So long as neither are boosted (in either direction), KD and SPM combined are important metrics. I have a low KD, but high SPM (~450). My WL is low, but that's largely because of that dumb bug from launch (my Ghosts WL was 4ish). I say that, not to brag, but because it immediately shows the flaws with my play style: I rush too hard and lose too many gun fights as a result. It shows that I'm better than the average player, but not significantly. I'd say I'm within one or two standard deviations of the average player.
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Will
True Bro
K/D below 1.0
Posts: 1,309
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Post by Will on Dec 19, 2014 13:12:49 GMT -5
So long as neither are boosted (in either direction), KD and SPM combined are important metrics. I have a low KD, but high SPM (~450). My WL is low, but that's largely because of that dumb bug from launch (my Ghosts WL was 4ish). I say that, not to brag, but because it immediately shows the flaws with my play style: I rush too hard and lose too many gun fights as a result. It shows that I'm better than the average player, but not significantly. I'd say I'm within one or two standard deviations of the average player. I'm in the same boat. Sub-1.0 K/D, but always in the top 3 scores of the lobby (#1 top score 9 times out of 10). This probably has a lot to do with most players in objective game modes just being there to farm kills, and not actually caring about the objective. And of course, my W/L says something stupid like 0.4 because of that same bug. But I'd imagine it's only a tiny bit over 1.0, I do lose quite a lot despite having a higher score than the entire enemy team. (this is strictly for non-search games, which is what I do when I play alone during off-hours. The other half of my time is spent in a full party of 6 in HC SnD)
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Post by mrbone2u on Dec 19, 2014 13:29:02 GMT -5
Sounds to meeeeee like you're garbage
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Dec 19, 2014 15:03:05 GMT -5
Naw Mousey's right.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Dec 19, 2014 15:41:25 GMT -5
I'm garbage. But I'm above average garbage.
I had bad bb code in my post. You can click the link now.
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Will
True Bro
K/D below 1.0
Posts: 1,309
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Post by Will on Dec 19, 2014 15:47:42 GMT -5
I'm just garbage that is stinking up the flag/hardpoint/headquarter.
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Post by iw5000 on Dec 20, 2014 11:17:27 GMT -5
So long as neither are boosted (in either direction), KD and SPM combined are important metrics. I have a low KD, but high SPM (~450). My WL is low, but that's largely because of that dumb bug from launch (my Ghosts WL was 4ish). I say that, not to brag, but because it immediately shows the flaws with my play style: I rush too hard and lose too many gun fights as a result. It shows that I'm better than the average player, but not significantly. I'd say I'm within one or two standard deviations of the average player. I don't even think there is any point in bragging or not bragging....no stat or number is going to truly reflect skill in this game, with all the issues i mentioned before. Yes, higher KD's would signify more skill, but only in a certain range (say anything below 1.25), but once above that, it becomes to blurry. Same with SpM, which is heavily influenced by game types and quirks in the stat keeping ( like in BO2, using certain KillStreaks to boost your stat). It's all kind of junk for the most part. The only way to truly measure 'skill' is to compare playing amongst like-minded people, who all in the same group, all playing to the same goals. If you get a group together, playing an event, you can tell which members of your group are showing more skill. Or watch a LAN MLG event, ...very easy to determine who is playing better than the other. So any criteria that a developer would utilize to make SBMM work is ultimately going to be flawed. Especially KD, which everyone (and i do mean everyone) shouts and screams about to the point of making me want to puke. Realistically speaking, probably the simplest criteria to use for SBMM, would simply be 'time played'. For most everyone, the more you play, the better you get.
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