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Post by strokedem on Feb 19, 2015 8:50:53 GMT -5
What about Berlin Wall? Kowloon? Or Hazard.. or Hotel? Black Ops 1 = best maps. Creative, diverse, good flow, and they favored no weapon type (usually) Black ops 1 was my favorite cod by far. All those maps were great. Kowloon was a map i was hoping they could remake for advanced warfare.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 19, 2015 11:03:26 GMT -5
Hazard and Kowloon were amazing.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Feb 19, 2015 11:36:16 GMT -5
nou
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 19, 2015 13:05:12 GMT -5
Energy weapons shouldn't have infinite ammo and render Scavenger moot.
They should still not have magazines per se as they do in AW, but should consume reserve ammo per shot, with Scavenger replenishing reserve ammo.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Feb 19, 2015 13:07:42 GMT -5
Then there's literally no reason to use them.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 19, 2015 13:11:24 GMT -5
Nah, give them gigantic reserves to compensate. Also balance them like real guns.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Feb 19, 2015 13:25:57 GMT -5
There's still no reason to use them. That's the whole point of them, "Hey here's this significantly weaker gun but you never have to reload or replenish ammo" If you just make them like every other shitty gun, then they're just another shitty gun that has no reason to be used. At least they fill a niche so there's some reason to use them over the BAL or ASM1
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
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Post by asasa on Feb 19, 2015 13:32:00 GMT -5
A shitty gun won't reach a point where infinite ammo has any effect I.e. you're dead before it matters. This is another broken balancing criteria and I fully agree with megaqwerty
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Feb 19, 2015 14:07:01 GMT -5
A shitty gun won't reach a point where infinite ammo has any effect Not true at all, the whole point of not relying on scavenger means you don't have to move as much, meaning you can set up your engagements much more easily, in which case the weapon of choice doesn't matter at all. EM1 on the roof of Riot near the courtyard is a place I would hold down very easily with nothing but the EM1 and never ever moving from there.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 19, 2015 14:57:30 GMT -5
The fact the energy weapons suck has nothing to do with them being energy weapons.
If the reserve ammo counts were high, it would allow free spamming of the weapon as implemented, but also still allow them to be affected by ammo economy and Scavenger.
Example, the EM could be 600/1200, spawn and max ammo, and the AE4 200/400. That's still a ton of shots, but would eventually force the player to replenish or abandon the gun.
...you know, like every other gun in existence.
Edit: looked at the stats. EM1 has about a 240 round capacity and the AE 18. Bullet guns spawn with 3 mags and have reserve of 7. I would double these for energy guns so these guys would be 1440/3360 and 108/252, respectively.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Feb 19, 2015 15:18:37 GMT -5
Buff the PC EM1
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Post by noscreenname on Feb 19, 2015 15:22:20 GMT -5
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Feb 19, 2015 15:29:25 GMT -5
No that was OP. You use the Trenchgun w/ Bayonetta at range and the Flambethrower at a distance. Unstoppable wombo combo.
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 19, 2015 16:42:25 GMT -5
A shitty gun won't reach a point where infinite ammo has any effect Not true at all, the whole point of not relying on scavenger means you don't have to move as much, meaning you can set up your engagements much more easily, in which case the weapon of choice doesn't matter at all. EM1 on the roof of Riot near the courtyard is a place I would hold down very easily with nothing but the EM1 and never ever moving from there. You're right, but I still think its a bad idea. I'm not sure how the above example is even slightly beneficial to gameplay. It's still dumb because you've removed active reloads with passive cool-down, and ammo economy as megaqwerty calls it.. with nothing. They clearly have trouble balancing it (and thats unsurprising). There are variants that give you an extra magazine of starting ammo. How do you work that out with guns that simply have infinite ammo? You dont. ...you know, like every other gun in existence. I dont see why that should be sought after. If they made a slower/clunky but more powerful energy weapon with infinite ammo then that gives them the supressive fire capabilities that LMGs always wish they fu cking had. Honestly I think that sort of weapon would add more to the game than scavenger does in the first place. Scavenger: Infinite ammo so long as you arent a tactical loitering faggot Energy weapon: Infinite ammo so long as you are a tactical loitering faggot
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Post by thegentleman on Feb 19, 2015 17:50:43 GMT -5
I'm going to side with asasa. If you had an AMR-9 with unlimited ammo and a 200-round magazine, it'd still suck. Bullets that don't at least come out of the gun fast enough, accurate enough, and powerful enough to compete with another weapon in a firefight aren't any better because you have a lot more of them.
Even the IMR's "printing" feature is a quirk that doesn't add anything meaningful to the experience of using the gun. Most people are going to die after they get 2 or 3 kills, and that's being EXTREMELY generous. An EM1 can in theory allow someone to stand at the farthest point in the map in the most headglitchy location possible, but the beam broadcasts them to the whole world, and it's only a matter of time before they get sniped or shot out of the position by something like an AK-12 RIP.
Extra ammo is not all that valuable. Or at least, it hasn't been in my CoD experience, where the battleground is littered with the weapons of dead enemies. If you wanted to seriously gimp something, you could give it two mags total, but one less mag than the reserve or or more mag than the reserve is a pretty lame way to balance things, and that's coming from a guy who previously said in this very thread that he'd like to see more methods of balancing things.
Unless you had something balls-out wacky. Like a no-question OP gun like an AK-12 that killed in a flat three hits anywhere, but it didn't come with ANY ammo. So you'd be forced to kill someone with another gun or a secondary, run scavenger, and replenish one mag for the OP gun every time you got a kill. But even that's more trolly and jokey and not something I'd seriously reccomend.
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Post by broth3r on Feb 19, 2015 20:24:13 GMT -5
oh no tactical loitering. in call of duty. the horror. I'd like to think acknowledging its prevalence for years on end still hasn't gotten to the point - and I hope it won't - where it's embraced by the players as a defining, loved, unshakable characteristic of the series. Of course, I'm a bloodlust madman and I do indeed see that playstyle defined thusly, so what do I know. But then again, there's a limit to relativism.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 19, 2015 20:34:39 GMT -5
Oh, my God. The AMR is still trash in HC. Imagine that. You can't. The horror. It is the worse SMG ever in Call of Duty, a game where SMGs are typically the best class.
In all seriousness, the utility of Scavenger to the average player is nil. Most players do not average more than one kill per life, if that.
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Will
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Post by Will on Feb 19, 2015 21:00:56 GMT -5
What doesn't make sense to me is that the overheat / fast cooldown animation of the AE4 has you fling the battery onto the ground, then stick a new one into it. How is my dude carrying 500 brick-sized batteries? What I think would have been a cool feature is limit you to X number of batteries. Make the fast cooldown even faster, so it's worth doing. Then Scavenger has a great use on the gun - it replenishes your batteries. But if you don't overheat the gun or press the reload button, then it can keep shooting with the one battery, giving you "infinite" ammo. Or give each battery a limited number of shots. I don't care. And make gun attachments change the appearance of the gun, like give any ASM1 with extended mags the drum mag we see on the Speakeasy. Kind of like how it was in Black Ops 1 (it made your mags longer). Ramble ramble ramble Wil Wheaton Wesley Crusher ramble.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Feb 20, 2015 9:56:32 GMT -5
Well one idea is to make the the EPM3 like heavy's minigun. Give the EPM3 like 400 rounds, you never need to reload and when you pick up ammo it goes straight into your mag.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 20, 2015 10:08:45 GMT -5
Rapid Fire should add flame decals to the gun. Well one idea is to make the the EPM3 like heavy's minigun. Give the EPM3 like 400 rounds, you never need to reload and when you pick up ammo it goes straight into your mag. I said effectively this.
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probaddie
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Post by probaddie on Feb 20, 2015 10:35:32 GMT -5
Rapid Fire should add flame decals to the gun. Literally game-breaking. No, seriously, your game wouldn't even start-up if something this powerful existed.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 20, 2015 10:44:44 GMT -5
Every decal adds, like, five horsepower.
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Post by ChloeB42 (Alexcalibur42) on Feb 20, 2015 10:46:36 GMT -5
What doesn't make sense to me is that the overheat / fast cooldown animation of the AE4 has you fling the battery onto the ground, then stick a new one into it. Because it isn't. What happens is when you pop it out, you reverse the polarity of the neutron flow, which instantly recharges it, when it's recharged your magnetic pockets instantly pick it back up. So obviously you only have two batteries, a Proton Pack, a Sonic Screwdriver and duct tape.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Feb 20, 2015 10:47:19 GMT -5
Speaking of fast, lightweight should of turned your character into a sanic cosplayer in BLOPS1 where your 1st tier determined your character model.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 20, 2015 10:54:12 GMT -5
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 21, 2015 13:53:09 GMT -5
How is my dude carrying 500 brick-sized batteries? But you're okay with discarded magazines magically integrating themselves into the ones on your belt?
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Will
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Post by Will on Feb 21, 2015 16:32:10 GMT -5
How is my dude carrying 500 brick-sized batteries? But you're okay with discarded magazines magically integrating themselves into the ones on your belt? Yes I am The Batman and my magnetic Bat-Belt sucks the unused bullets out of the discarded magazine as it drops to the ground. Then when nobody is looking, my penis (which can move around freely like a third arm and the foreskin has the ability to grip things like a hand) does the work of putting those bullets together into spare magazines (which I have an infinite supply of because I am The Batman). It obviously doesn't work for the AE4 batteries because those would electrocute my testicles and then I could never make Bat-babies with Robin.
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Lexapro
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Post by Lexapro on Feb 21, 2015 16:38:16 GMT -5
Slightly Off-topic.
What if they had guns with alternating firetimes to hit those intermediate rates of fire? Right now, due to how ROF is tied to framerate, you only really see 600/720/900/1200 effective RPMs. If you alternated the firetimes, you could consistently hit the intermediate ROFs of 655/800/1029. This should open up more options for balancing the three primary weapon factors: damage (over range), ROF, and accuracy.
We've seen the devs employ variable firerates in AW but this leads to issues. ASM-1 fires too fast in the first few shots and dominates close range as the only reliable 3HK SMG. The BAL is too accurate for its fast ROF and covers everything outside of the ASM-1's 3HK range and that's AFTER it got a significant nerf. I think when you start having 3HK weapons that shoot at or above 720rpm, you start getting the "melting" issues that plagued Ghosts etc. where even moderate connection latency results in immediate, unsatisfying, "cheap" feeling deaths.
I think BO2, connection issues aside, was pretty close to ideal with TTK. Generally, nothing above 720rpm could 3HK out past medium range.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 23, 2015 3:15:29 GMT -5
I made the suggestion of blending fire rates in another thread and I think it's a great solution to the issue of only a few fire rates being available at 60 FPS.
However, IW and Sledgehammer have demonstrated that they are not aware of effects of frame rate on fire rate with the fire rates that they have repeatedly selected in the games and would never do this.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Feb 23, 2015 9:30:27 GMT -5
They are clearly aware that fire rates are limited by frame rate or else they would have been awestruck that the EM1 doesnt actually have infinite fire rate. There virtually no chance that they would have selected a firetime of zero otherwise. Daily reminder that SH tried to reduce the FMG9X2's RoF by lowering the fire time. They are that dum.
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