BlOps chart, JA2 1.13 style

[n1gh7]

Nov 24, 2010 21:40:24 GMT -5 keeko said:

[Den this chart is very useful. would you consider replacing yours and giving a small credit to this chart... its still basicaly yours but his makes it easier to read.

This, in my opinion isn't the best way to arrange all of the information. I don't have the means to arrange it the way I see as best, but I believe Den can do a better job than this person has done.

[RageHulkSmash]

The more info I know, the better. Give the guy some slack.

[Ishbane]

Nov 24, 2010 21:40:24 GMT -5 keeko said:

[Den this chart is very useful. would you consider replacing yours and giving a small credit to this chart... its still basicaly yours but his makes it easier to read.

You know, all mine does (yet) is add infos about attachments and make it less readable.

Nov 24, 2010 23:18:42 GMT -5 n1gh7 said:

This, in my opinion isn't the best way to arrange all of the information. I don't have the means to arrange it the way I see as best, but I believe Den can do a better job than this person has done.

Just tell me what bothers you, I'll gladly change it. That being said, this chart changed quite a bit since i started it, who is to say it won't anymore?

[dog]

Den, please sticky this.

EDIT:
Albeit there's A LOT of information in this chart (very helpful too), there's just too much clutter for easy-reading.

MOAR EDITS:
Also, it would be helpful if you could add in information regarding adsidleamount on scoped weapons. Like M16 + IR = idle amount of 40 and G11 + VS = idle amount of 60, etc.

[ecomni]

Aww man, Dual Wield Skorpion damage capped at 40? I'm sad now.

[Ishbane]

Nov 25, 2010 12:43:28 GMT -5 dog said:

Also, it would be helpful if you could add in information regarding adsidleamount on scoped weapons. Like M16 + IR = idle amount of 40 and G11 + VS = idle amount of 60, etc.

Will be done. Also rearranging some things.

[fred]

This is an excellent chart. The additional info that your chart contains shows why there are benefits to using certain weapon/attachment combinations (or not):
* M16 w/ IR
* Drag w/ IR or ACOG
* AK74u with Grip
* Python w/ ACOG damage
* Akimbo up/down times (good for CZ75 & Makarov, bad for Python)
* Also standing out were the different zoom levels, sight attachment ADS speeds, and attachment combinations info all in one place.

Also am interested in including the idle sways. It was important for W@W on the PTRS, Arisaka and M1 w/ scope.

[aranshada]

Hey, it got stickied. Gratz on the sticky. I've been watching this thread since it started, and I've been saving the new chart at each evolution. I absolutely love how much data is represented on this chart, and I've been coming to this one as my standard for comparisons. When there's something that I want to be sure of, I'll double check it on Den's chart or in the MP files that Den ripped and put up for download, but the main strength is the attachments. I LOVE that I can instantly see how each attachment affects stats. I wish there had been a chart like this for the other games.

Also, I second the motion that sway should be looked into. Keep up the good work!

[RageHulkSmash]

Question: does acog on python only increase damage range when ads or does hipfire benefit as well?

[n1gh7]

both.

[arcanine2009]

Wait.. So let me get this straight...

So besides the kick of a weapoon, Center speed is a huge factor that controls the recoil of a weapon? With higher center speeds reducing recoil, and lower center speeds increasing recoil for certain attachments.. right?

[n1gh7]

Lower center speed just means that your second shot will happen when the gun is pointed farther away from straight than it would if you had a high center speed.

[arcanine2009]

Nov 26, 2010 2:04:02 GMT -5 n1gh7 said:

Lower center speed just means that your second shot will happen when the gun is pointed farther away from straight than it would if you had a high center speed.

Eh? Sorry.. But I don't get what you're saying.

Doesn't grip attachments reduce the recoil of the gun by increasing its center speed, right?

Or did he author of this thread who made the modified den kirson chart, not add the values in reduction in kick (if it is truly defined by that) w/ grip attachments?

I'm confused...

[arcanine2009]

Or at least grip attachments as well as IR and Acog scopes for certain weapons discussed in this thread, gives a similar effect to reducing recoil, right?


I noticed WA2000 and Dragunov have the same kicks.. But w/ WA2000, it feels like it has less recoil.. or is much easier to spam shots, due to its faster center speed.

And since WA2000's center speed is 825, regardless of the attachment, and the Dragunov gets a massive increase (from 500 to 1000) that surpasses WA2000's enter speed by 175 w/ IR or ACOG attachment, its easier to spam shots with Dragunov then WA2000 then?

However sway is also a deciding factor right, which hasn't been posted yet?

[RageHulkSmash]

Higher center speeds mean the weapon will center itself faster after every shot.

Think of center speed as counter recoil. With grip, the recoils are still the same but the counter recoil effect that realigns the sight is faster.

[arcanine2009]

Nov 26, 2010 2:23:28 GMT -5 RageHulkSmash said:

Higher center speeds mean the weapon will center itself faster after every shot.

So Dragunov w/ IR or Acog Scope attachment completely outclasses WA2000 then?

[RageHulkSmash]

Yes, unless you don't want acog or IR.

[arcanine2009]

Nov 26, 2010 2:43:39 GMT -5 RageHulkSmash said:

Yes, unless you don't want acog or IR.

My god... Its even better than the Dragunov from COD4!

[RageHulkSmash]

Ishbane, can you add the ballistic knife and crossbow? I want to know the raise/drop times for those.

[arcanine2009]

Wait... But what about sway?

Is the sway on all snipers the same in this game, or are their differences? And has anyone found out the values for sway in this game yet?

[RageHulkSmash]

There is a sway column on the chart. L96 has more sway than the other snipers.

[arcanine2009]

Nov 26, 2010 3:19:50 GMT -5 RageHulkSmash said:

There is a sway column on the chart. L96 has more sway than the other snipers.

Where? Is it between spread and recoil?

[Disgruntled Jigglypuff]

Nov 26, 2010 3:28:07 GMT -5 arcanine2009 said:

Nov 26, 2010 3:19:50 GMT -5 RageHulkSmash said:

There is a sway column on the chart. L96 has more sway than the other snipers.

Where? Is it between spread and recoil?

Yeah, the yellow numbers are the ones that apply to ADS.

[arcanine2009]

I have two more questions.

in COD4, shotguns w/ grips actually decreased the view kick (not mentioning of increasing center speed according to COD4 site of Den Kirson?) of a weapon. Is this true with all the shotguns from COD4 to Black Ops?


2nd question:

How much sway do IR scopes give? I'm assuming its the same as regular sniper scopes.. But what about for non sniper rifles? Same as ACOG scopes then?

[n1gh7]

1. it appears not.

2. IR scopes add sniper like sway to any gun they are attached to. Not surprised considering they add sniper like zoom.

Look at the damn chart. Even I, the person that hates the chart the most can figure this out from it.

Here is a more picture-esque way of explaining your center speed question.


Low center speed (assuming the same recoil numbers and the same recoil pattern and the same firetime and all other stats being identical):
(recoil goes up to here)
|
|o (the second shot)
|
|
|
|
(The "center" where the first shot went)

High center speed (assuming the same recoil numbers and the same recoil pattern and the same firetime and all other stats being identical):
(recoil goes up to here)
|
|
|
|
|o (the second shot)
|
(The "center" where the first shot went)

I probably made it more confusing.

[arcanine2009]

No, I actually got it.

Makes me realize how the MP40 was such a beast with a center speed of 2500.

Looks like the Dragunov will be even easier to spam shots than the WA2000. I wonder by how much though, when compared to M21 from COD4... Hmm.

[dog]

Man, the updated chart looks almost complete (nearly all the factors that affects the weapons' performance have been charted). Now its time to make the chart look a lil' more presentable by flashing it up.

Den, will you do the honors?

[Ishbane]

I sure hope he will.

Imagine the gun displayed in the middle with greyed-out attachments and clicking them changes the values. It would be the ne plus ultra of this chart.

[caboose]

You're missing the reload times on dual wield Kiparis. Unless they're the same as single wield, which I strongly doubt after trying it today. Seemed pretty slow actually if I remember correctly.

[Ishbane]

It's the same for both.