toysrme
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"Even at normal Health, there's no other choice than the Vector" Den Kirson
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Post by toysrme on Sept 10, 2009 15:11:44 GMT -5
They both suck to the AK74u. great iron sight, rediculous recoil, rifle bullets and a ROF slower so it doesn't eat it's ammo in a flash
MP5 is awesome till you run it out of bullets or god forbid someone is half body or more in cover. you're not likely to win that one.
P90 is shit, it's like throwing spitballs at someone. learn some accuracy and take something that does some damage
AK74u > all other SMG's
people get all pissy about ROF and clip sizes... well if you could shoot straight to begin with you wouldn't need either and you'd still walk through several people per clip. especially the 74u with its ability to kill three in a row on the first half of a clip LMAO
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 10, 2009 17:58:32 GMT -5
Let's see. Great iron sights-opinion "Rediculous" (ridiculous) recoil-true RifleBullet-true ROF slower-false, it fires as fast as the MP5 You didn't mention any of the 74u's cons, like its hip accuracy penalty with attachments, lower movement speed, and idle sway. P90 is doo-doo-a very stupid statement. The P90 takes one more bullet to kill at close and medium range, and the same amount at medium-long and long range. With a silencer, the P90 takes one more bullet to kill at close and close-medium range, and the same amount at medium and long range. Also, the P90's huge mag, high ROF, low recoil + no idle sway, full SMG movement speed, and better hip accuracy with attachments all add up to be a pretty big deal.
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i8
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Post by i8 on Sept 10, 2009 20:34:03 GMT -5
ak-74u has full smg movement speed
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 10, 2009 22:36:58 GMT -5
No, it does not.
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Post by ssog on Sept 11, 2009 22:03:49 GMT -5
They both suck to the AK74u. great iron sight, rediculous recoil, rifle bullets and a ROF slower so it doesn't eat it's ammo in a flash MP5 is awesome till you run it out of bullets or god forbid someone is half body or more in cover. you're not likely to win that one. Big red "X" here. MP5 fires at the same rate as the 74u, and it actually has *MORE* ammo because it shares ammo with the M9 pistol (giving it an extra 30 bullets, iirc). If you have Bandolier, its advantage is even bigger still. ak-74u has full smg movement speed Nope, 74u has AR movement speed (which is 95% of SMG movement speed).
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toysrme
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"Even at normal Health, there's no other choice than the Vector" Den Kirson
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Post by toysrme on Sept 12, 2009 2:12:03 GMT -5
sorry ssog you're right, it does fire at the same rate. Id rather have the 74u or MP5 over the P90 And id rather use the 74u than the MP5 every day of the week. Attachment penalties are for naught on the 74u. The iron sight is so good it doesn't need the red-dot. MP5 recoil isn't bad, at all, but its jack simple to kill at range with the 74u. click, drag straight down slightly -> dead.
bandoleer (the choice of champions!) and sharing with the M9 is a great point I hadn't considered SSOG. I like the USP over the M9. Can't remember even playing with the M9 in ages. I dont find ammo a problem on maps I tend to SMG. IF it's enough for a 10-15 kill streak without picking up ammo - I dont tend to worry about it.
(keeping in mind I use a mouse on consols = accuracy and speed out the yingyang)
Walking around with the MP5 (which again I do like!). I ask myself the question... Why do I typically die??? 1) I wound up having to quick-engage an enemy who had cover - which pistol bullets dont deal with well 2) While reloading from not killing absolutely EVERYONE in an area / respawning enemies while reloading
VS the 74u Ive got a much GREATER chance at killing anyone in cover, and killing multiple people per burst at the same time. letting me clear enemies out of congested areas. the iron sights are wonderful and have no need for a reddot.
74u > mp5
P90 TTK till you're blue in the face it's an over-rated weapon. Just because you get it nearer the end of a prestiege doesn't make it great. it's tossing spitballs at someone regardless of how fast it fires. you're relagated to pecking at people in any kind of cover. you cant kill mutiple people at a time. ask the question, if i can put shots on the target (which i can mouse or controller) why on earth would i want to peck at someone instead of just putting them down and being done with it in the first place???
I realize that's a fundimental question for many, but there isn't anything a P90 does better on console than an MP5 or AK74u in practice. Get your accuracy up and put shots on the target and youll trade it off for a higher damage weapon quickly.
On PC its a different story. P90's extra sprint duration makes it very, very nice. Wish it was +25 or +50% sprint duration on console, and reduce the ammo count as a tradeoff. that'd make it a hell of an intersting choice than it is!
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Sept 12, 2009 5:09:27 GMT -5
so you are just a cheater then ^_^ go to pc if you want to play with a mouse... or use your Xbox/PS controler.... AK74u is better on pc and MP5 is better on console I think (played both)
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 12, 2009 12:34:01 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't think toys could get any stupider. THE P90 HAS THE SAME MINIMUM DAMAGE AS THE OTHER SMGs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT HAS LOWER RECOIL THAN THE MP5 OR MINI-UZI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT HAS NO IDLE SWAY!!!!!!!!!!! IT HAS FULL MOVEMENT SPEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT HAS A HUGE MAGAZINE!!!!!!!!!!!! The P90 is indisputably the best SMG with a suppressor, as the range reduction means that the MP-74u only does more damage at very close range, and the P90 is the best SMG at medium-long and long range regardless of attachments. And yes, sniping with a P90, even a silenced P90, is very doable if you are good. toys, did you even know that guns have min damage and not just a max damage?
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toysrme
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"Even at normal Health, there's no other choice than the Vector" Den Kirson
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Post by toysrme on Sept 12, 2009 15:19:14 GMT -5
same applies regardless of controller scheme, and what's cheating? Its and official microsoft controller and allows nothing that can't be accomplished with the controller itself. 5% movement? dude... I dont have problem moving with AR speed, most people dont, do you? take your movement to PC where the P90 movement DURATION means something. on console is meaningless. any positive you DURATION can give for a P90 can be immediately dismissed by rifle bullet and bullet damage. big clip? whos accuracy is so bad to need it!? i dont NEED the majority of a 30 round clip to run through a player??? Any idle sway arguement you care to give is going to immediately be negated by what happens when you FIRE THE WEAPON. The 74u puts big bullets on target with almost no effort. the P90 puts spitballs on people. maybe paintballs of you take stopping power. (and not even the frozen kind!) P90 is a spitball shooter. ROF is meaningless when the bullets are pecking away at someone. Ill take 2 bullets on target from a real damage output gun than anything ROF related on the P90 any day. i wnt someone put down and put down NOW. i want injured targets down before any stray bullets can touch him, i dont want any chance of someone running behind cover & i dont want to be caught fighting multiple targets and only being able to kill one at a time! silencer? ya great for hardcore. i dont play hardcore and never have a need for it in regular. why decrease my effective quick killing range for next to no benifits??? who's afraid of a silenced P90? Who cares what recoil it has VS the MP5 and Uzi when it takes you 25 bullets to kill a target? I think maybe you must play with people that run down the middle of streets and stand still in mostly open areas when you want to claim long range silenced P90 is great. if i see you and get my gun to bare odds are stacked against the aquired target. if its a dead silence match, its completely not needed - you wont hear me coming. If its not a dead silence match youll have a hard time hearing me when i near unfriendly territory by cutting the sprint slightly shorer than max to keep the loudest sprinting sounds from playing. if you dont play with bad people, then obviously the people in your party do because it REALLY doesn't sound like you play with people worth much when you want to claim
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 12, 2009 15:39:27 GMT -5
Wow, you just don't understand CoD, do you? Obviously nobody needs a 50 round magazine to kill a guy, but it sure comes in handy when you can easily kill 4 people in rapid succession without reloading. RifleBullet? How often do you hit multiple guys with one bullet? I barely ever see people charging towards me in a straight line. And you keep talking about the P90's low damage. It does 30 to 20 damage, not 4 damage (you said 25 shots). The AK-74u does 40 to 20 damage. Also, if you think silencers are useless, you are, once again, an idiot. Being able to come up behind an entire team and take a bunch out before the others can figure out what is going on is the difference between getting 2 kills and dying and getting 4 kills and living. And once again, magazine size comes into play here. JUST TO REITERATE, THE P90 TAKES ONE MORE BULLET TO KILL AT CLOSE AND MEDIUM RANGE THAN THE MP-74u. ONE. NOT A MILLION, NOT TWO MILLION, BUT ONE SINGLE BULLET.
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toysrme
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"Even at normal Health, there's no other choice than the Vector" Den Kirson
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Post by toysrme on Sept 12, 2009 16:40:38 GMT -5
with enemies looking at you, killing 3-1 and 4-1 with a 74u is easily possible by double or triple killing. killing 4-1 with the P90 in the same situation is EXTREMELY difficult. all those itty bitty pistol bullets hitting dead bodies in the front not doing anything sure makes the P90 own!
you're an idiot. I know what damage the P90 does.
you KEEP bringing up silenced P90 recoil shooting at range and you don't even REALIZE when someone is pointing out that a silenced P90 does JACK SHIT to targets at a medium range when 50% of the bullest dont hit the target, 25% of them hit cover and dont dont do jack shit, and the rest just peck away.
ya... that silenced P90 is OWNAGE in practice at range with it's MASSIVE damage and ROF!!!
jesus i wish i played with you on a regular basis; you really make it sound like the people you play with stand in the middle of the street and let you shoot at them. im sorry, im just not that lucky to play against scrubs! :\
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toysrme
True Bro
"Even at normal Health, there's no other choice than the Vector" Den Kirson
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Post by toysrme on Sept 12, 2009 16:51:47 GMT -5
silencers are not useless, they're essential for hardcore. in regular core theyre *next* to useless. not entirely... but next to it. how many times in regular games is someone going to silenced kill someone, or kill someone with a UAV??? That's going to be a big fat 1 and then the cat's out of the bag.
'Everyone i play with has moderately high to insane KD/R's in both games and most play HIGHLY aggressively, especially as a team and the majority have high quality headphones. (as in not turtle beach crap) Trust me... you play with talent, it takes no time to learn what sneakier and flanking players try to do and how they do it...
speakin of which ill say AGAIN. where the hell are these crap players you're playing with!?!?!?!?
COD4 has been out TWO YEARS. you're not going to consistantly sneak around killing good players that have already done the same to others and had it been done to them.
you *thinking* you're running around with a silenced weapon, or UAV/camo, or DS makes you since until you play with players who would do just as well in regular core without a radar map. being a dot on radar when you shoot isn't that big of a deal. having a quieter weapon when you play against headphones isn't a big deal. if they dont outright hear you firing, theyll hear you moving, or the shots impacting somewhere.
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toysrme
True Bro
"Even at normal Health, there's no other choice than the Vector" Den Kirson
Posts: 1,339
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Post by toysrme on Sept 12, 2009 16:53:17 GMT -5
if you're halfway descent and your job is to flank the enemy - you can be jsut as effective without the silencer, and not give up your range & damage.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 12, 2009 17:07:02 GMT -5
Targets moving in the open are very easy to pick off with the P90. Bog is the best map to demonstrate this. "killing 4-1 with the P90 in the same situation is EXTREMELY difficult. all those itty bitty pistol bullets hitting dead bodies in the front not doing anything sure makes the P90 own!" What the fack does this even mean? You keep saying that you understand the P90's damage, but then you talk about its "itty bitty pistol bullets." It takes one more bullet per target, but it has a higher ROF and a bigger magazine. I mean, I can't make this explanation any more simple, and honestly, I still don't think you are going to understand it, so I'll say it again not once, but TWICE. It takes one more bullet per target, but it has a higher ROF and a bigger magazine. It takes one more bullet per target, but it has a higher ROF and a bigger magazine. And what the hell does the dead bodies comment mean? If you are hitting dead bodies, URDOINITRONG! Also, I have no idea where you find these good players, almost every CoD player sucks at the game. I consistently break 20 kills with a KDR above 2 in a game of TDM, and in Search and Destroy I almost always break 10 kills and keep my death count to 4 or lower. Regardless of enemy skill, you are the least logical person i have ever conversed with about CoD stats. Oh, and by the way, there is an edit button so that you don't have to double or triple post. Also, if not using a silencer doesn't get you caught, then the players you play against are better than the ones I play against but totally suck at noticing things.
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Den
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Post by Den on Sept 12, 2009 17:13:30 GMT -5
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 12, 2009 17:17:36 GMT -5
Directed at who?
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Sept 12, 2009 17:40:45 GMT -5
Both of you.
"Every weapon is balanced to the point that you can use any weapon and it will be "the best". Just because one gun does more damage or fires faster than another doesn't make it superior. There are many more things than just damage or rate of fire that levels the playing field. Each weapon has different handling that suits different players and play styles. Use every gun - find the one that you like best and it will be your best. Except shotguns. Those things suck; just use an SMG."
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 12, 2009 17:44:30 GMT -5
Den doesn't actually believe that. The R700 sucks, the Mini-Uzi sucks compared to the P90, the Skorpion is underpowered, the RPD is overly amazing, and the G36c is generally considered worse than the M4. Note that I never bashed the 74u, I only defended the P90.
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Post by robesh on Sept 13, 2009 3:02:38 GMT -5
AK-74u is great on PC, where you can control the idle, but P90/MP5 are dominant on XBOX 360.
The rifle bullet feature doesn't help with groups as much as an LMG style mag ala the P90.
If you are so good at aiming, toysrme, then why do you need the better penetration? Surely one of your caliber could just aim at their exposed parts. Wouldn't taking more bullets to kill require MORE accuracy? Hmm, yes it would. Message: Don't talk about aiming skill when you prefer the gun that drills through walls.
And please, stay on topic. I said P90 vs MP5, the dominant SMGs on CONSOLE; what I play. We all know that the 74u is a sexy beast, but it isn't that much better. The idle sway really kills it. The only reason you bash the silencer is because your 74u can't use it.
The P90 doesn't shoot pooty-pooty spit balls. It only takes 1 more bullet, which should be easy for the elite and skilled to achieve with the insane ROF.
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Post by ssog on Sept 14, 2009 2:40:53 GMT -5
Ooh, ooh, now do one of him juggling!
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Sept 14, 2009 12:54:36 GMT -5
same applies regardless of controller scheme, and what's cheating? Its and official microsoft controller and allows nothing that can't be accomplished with the controller itself. because a mouse has alot better accuracy like you told us yourself... and the aimassist is there because it is harder to aim with a controller like you said yourself. So why don't you just go playing at a pc if you want to play with your mouse? right because you want (and propably need) the advantage you get by having a mouse with autoaim while others only have a controller. Yeah, I think that is pretty much cheating... sorry for that.
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Post by robesh on Sept 14, 2009 16:42:12 GMT -5
I'm going to get a M/KB for my Xbox. Honestly, I've always loved aiming with a mouse, but I hate to spend 5k on a gaming PC. I know it's cheating, but I'd like to see Microsoft catch me! >
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Den
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Post by Den on Sept 14, 2009 17:17:55 GMT -5
And I'll use a PS3 controller to play on PC.
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dog
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woof
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Post by dog on Sept 14, 2009 17:36:25 GMT -5
And I'll use the dance pad to play on PC. ;D
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Sept 14, 2009 18:37:07 GMT -5
Project natal wut?
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 14, 2009 19:04:43 GMT -5
Den Kirson; funniest man alive or African American haberdasher? You decide!
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Post by robesh on Sept 14, 2009 19:40:27 GMT -5
Actually, I think I'll stick with my zapper-- That's how real pro's play. *Note that I don't actually own this model of light-gun, I just think it's a funny picture.
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iKONIG
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Don't know what to put here, Just something random.
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Post by iKONIG on Sept 15, 2009 1:11:31 GMT -5
How did this get so off topic! Damn! Its like you guys are 14 or something!
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Post by chyros on Sept 15, 2009 7:39:43 GMT -5
I'd say that for stealth classes the MP5 is superior (undeniably better CQ capabilities), while for everything else the P90 rules. The P90 has more starting ammo unlike the MP5 which makes you use the M9 as a sidearm to procure ammo; a waste of a perfectly overpowered Deagle slot, while being vastly superior at medium range due to the MP5's hefty & unpredictable recoil. In addition, the P90 gives you the best chance of making multikills with a single magazine, and is bugged to provide 75% extra sprint time which is completely invaluable in Headquarters, for example.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Sept 15, 2009 17:28:59 GMT -5
FYI the sprint bug is PC only, and with a suppressor the MP5 loses a lot of its higher damage advantage due to the range reduction. That definitely makes the P90 a better option for stealth.
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