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Post by robesh on Jul 23, 2009 9:07:42 GMT -5
The P90 and the MP5 seem to be the most used sub machine guns in Call of Duty 4 for the Xbox 360. Which do you like more?
In terms of pure time to kill, the MP5 kills faster in CQC where the guns shoot at their maximum damage. The P90 kills faster at long range when the guns shoot at their minimal damage.
Of course, you can't really take the long range, minimal damage kill times into serious consideration because to kill at that range means that you would have to burst fire or fire single shot. The P90 does have the advantage of less recoil, though.
When the guns shoot at a range between their maximum damage and their minimum damage, the P90 kills faster. Just to clarify, that means that the P90 does 25 damage while the MP5 would do 30 damage.
It seems that the guns are balanced in the fact that the MP5 is made for close combat, while the P90 was made to be a longer ranged SMG.
I prefer the lower recoil and ridiculous magazine capacity. P90 is my baby.
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dog
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Post by dog on Jul 23, 2009 14:08:43 GMT -5
P90.
Aerosol spray > anything else.
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Post by crazylad10 on Jul 23, 2009 15:06:42 GMT -5
P90 rules over mp5
less kick bigger clip higher rate of fire
it just owns all !
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Post by imrlybord7 on Jul 23, 2009 16:40:44 GMT -5
P90 destroys the MP5. With SMGs (especially silenced, which is what I use) the range is so short that you are rarely doing max damage.
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Post by ssog on Jul 23, 2009 21:45:10 GMT -5
Objectively, the MP5 is much better than the P90. It has a faster TTK at close range even if both guns miss a shot, which makes it much better for firing from the hip in CQC.
Also, it's extremely disingenuous to mention that the P90 kills faster than the MP5 at 875 inches. While it's technically correct, it's still very misleading. You see, the MP5 kills faster than the P90 at all ranges up to 837 inches, even if both guns miss a shot (which generally favors the faster gun). The P90 then kills faster from 838 inches to 850 inches, but then the MP5 kills faster from 851 inches out to 937 inches, where the P90 again passes it, maintaining that superiority out indefinitely. So yes, the P90 kills faster at 875 inches (which is halfway between the min damage and max damage ranges), but that's a fluke. Of the 187 inches after the damage starts falling off, the MP5 will kill faster in 174 of them compared to just 13 for the P90... but it just so happens that 875 falls in the 13-inch window of P90 superiority and not the 174-inch window of MP5 superiority.
It's far more helpful to say that under 937 inches, the MP5 will kill faster (even if both guns miss a shot), and over 937 inches, the P90 will kill faster. 937 inches is a very significant distance, and SMGs in particular are designed to excel at under 1000 inches, which means the MP5, statistically speaking, really is a far superior gun.
Of course, numbers and statistics aside, I voted for the P90 because I love the way it looks and sounds.
Edit: of course, a silencer definitely changes the equation. With a silencer, the MP5 only kills faster up to 625 inches, while the P90 kills faster from 625 inches and beyond. Gaining superiority over that massive 312 inch span, combined with the better recoil and bigger mag, definitely pushes the P90 over the top. So... silenced = P90, unsilenced = MP5.
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shadz
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Post by shadz on Jul 24, 2009 19:37:47 GMT -5
MP5, it's probably my favourite gun in the game, it functions nicely, works like a traditional SMG and is powerful. I like being able to quickly take out an enemy with a controlled burst.
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Post by robesh on Jul 25, 2009 14:16:01 GMT -5
Thanks for clearing some of that range stuff ssog.
I agree with you, suppressed = P90, unsuppressed = MP5.
I like the P90 because I always have a suppressor on my SMG. The only time I wouldn't is if I didn't have it yet, but outside of Search and Destroy, I would use MP5 with a red-dot sight.
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Jul 27, 2009 3:25:52 GMT -5
Objectively, the MP5 is much better than the P90. It has a faster TTK at close range even if both guns miss a shot, which makes it much better for firing from the hip in CQC. Even if the guns miss two shots. My chart on the other board is wrong. I made the mistake of forgetting that the first shot is instant.
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Jul 27, 2009 3:31:26 GMT -5
I like the P90 because I play on the PC and we still get the free running bonus. But I like the MP5 much more, because apart from killing faster I can recover much faster from knife swipes. The bigger magazine [of the P90] is partly negated by the need to fire more bullets.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Jul 27, 2009 8:53:13 GMT -5
Knife swipes are THAT big a deal to you? If you knife that much, you are either doing something VERY right or VERY wrong.
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Jul 27, 2009 12:52:52 GMT -5
Knife swipes are THAT big a deal to you? If you knife that much, you are either doing something VERY right or VERY wrong. I rush, rush, rush I avoid knifing when I can, but it happens a *lot*. I also play Crossfire almost exclusively, and it has a bunch of little rooms all strung together around the perimeter, so there's usually someone waiting around the corner. I can see why it wouldn't matter as much if my play style were different.
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Post by ssog on Jul 29, 2009 17:23:04 GMT -5
Objectively, the MP5 is much better than the P90. It has a faster TTK at close range even if both guns miss a shot, which makes it much better for firing from the hip in CQC. Even if the guns miss two shots. My chart on the other board is wrong. I made the mistake of forgetting that the first shot is instant. Actually, technically speaking, the MP5 will kill faster than the P90 at close quarters even if you miss FOUR shots. ___# | P90 | MP5 Miss | TTK | TTK ___0 |.195 |.150 ___1 |.260 |.225 ___2 |.325 |.300 ___3 |.390 |.375 ___4 |.455 |.450 ___5 |.520 |.525
I just only mentioned one miss because, let's face it... if you're within 750 inches (400 if silenced) and you miss 4 shots before you manage to land 3, you're dead no matter WHAT weapon you're using. Speaking of, that's another advantage of the MP5. Since you need to land fewer shots, you're likely to miss fewer shots. To give an example- if you make your first shot, and then alternate misses and makes, the MP5 will kill in 5 shots (make, miss, make, miss, make/kill) while the P90 will need 7 (make, miss, make, miss, make, miss, make/kill), meaning the P90 registers one more miss (3) than the MP5 (2), even given the exact same degree of accuracy (every other shot hits). So, in reality, it's not that crazy to compare the 3-miss time for the MP5 to the 4-miss time for the P90, which just further compounds the advantage. Like I said, at any range where the MP5 kills in one fewer shot than the P90 it possesses a CRUSHING statistical advantage, and the only way for the P90 to make up ground is to equip a silencer (and thereby reduce the range at which the MP5 kills in one fewer shot). Of course, it's worth noting that an unsilenced MP5 is significantly better than an unsilenced P90, while a silenced P90 is only slightly better than a silenced MP5, so when discussing overall guns, the MP5 really is a better gun. I guess that there's a reason why it, and not the P90, is hands down the most-used SMG at the competitive level. Looks like those guys actually know what they're doing- who'd have figured?
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Post by slashdolo on Aug 1, 2009 3:26:33 GMT -5
^You're failing to take recoil into consideration. The MP5 kick is... bad. It can be quite random and can net you some deaths simply because of the bad recoil.
The P90's kick is very low. So low that long range shots are NOT out of the question, and so low at close-medium range that missed shots are far less likely than with the MP5.
And honestly, if "competitve console COD4 players" (I'm lolling at even saying this term) actually knew what they were doing, they'd be using the naked 74u instead of the MP5.
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Post by ssog on Aug 1, 2009 4:40:45 GMT -5
^You're failing to take recoil into consideration. The MP5 kick is... bad. It can be quite random and can net you some deaths simply because of the bad recoil. The MP5's recoil isn't bad at all, and recoil is borderline irrelevant at the ranges the MP5 excels at anyway, especially if you're firing from the hip. Sure, on occasion you might get a bad kick at 750 inches that costs you a miss... but the MP5's horizontal recoil is less than the P90s (which is significant because enemies are smaller horizontally than vertically), so if you're aiming for center mass, it's a rare enough occurrence. Sure, the MP5 is hella weak beyond 1000 inches, but most engagements take place closer than that (especially if you're deliberately playing to get in close-to-mid engagements because you're rocking an SMG). And as I said, the P90 is more likely to miss shots just because it requires more shots to kill (i.e. there are more opportunities for misses), and the MP5 maintains its kill speed advantage even if both guns miss a whopping FOUR shots. 'Fraid not. The 74u is great on the PC because the idle is a lot easier to compensate for with mouse and keyboard than it is with joystick. On the PC, the 74u is possibly the most accurate gun in the entire game, outside of the M4. On the console, the MP5 owns the 74u so hard it hurts. Here's a comparison of the relative advantages of each weapon. AK74u- 1. Better wall penetration. 2. less horizontal recoil. MP5- 1. idle factor of 2 compared to 40 for the 74u (which is a HUGE difference- again, idle is hard to compensate for on the console). 2. better movement speed (100% movement compared to 95% for the 74u). 3. ability to attach RDS/Silencer/ACOG without wrecking hip-fire accuracy. 4. *SIGNIFICANT* speed advantage when switching weapons, knifing, calling in UAV/airstrike/helicopters, planting claymores, tossing C4, throwing grenades, or throwing flares/stuns/smokes. Basically, the 74u takes .35 seconds longer to switch weapons, and .64 seconds longer to perform any of the other listed actions. On the console, the 74u's idle easily offsets the MP5's recoil, leaving both weapons comparably accurate (if not giving a slight edge to the MP5, since the 74u's horizontal idle greatly surpasses the MP5's horizontal recoil). After that, it's a matter of whether you'd rather have better wall penetration values, or faster movement speed, weapon attachments, *AND* faster action speed. The movement speed alone is more than enough to seal the deal for the MP5, imo. On the console, the 74u is demonstrably inferior to the MP5 when it's naked, and is demonstrably inferior to the AK47 when it has attachments (in addition to being even more demonstrably inferior to the MP5 when it has attachments).
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Den
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Post by Den on Aug 1, 2009 5:26:03 GMT -5
One thing on that comparison, ssog:
Almost no "competetive" organized matchup on the PC version goes without the so-called "swaybugfix" which removes that idle from the AKs and M4. But then the MP5 is still faster than the AK74u in more ways than one.
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Post by ssog on Aug 1, 2009 16:09:13 GMT -5
One thing on that comparison, ssog: Almost no "competetive" organized matchup on the PC version goes without the so-called "swaybugfix" which removes that idle from the AKs and M4. But then the MP5 is still faster than the AK74u in more ways than one. Yikes! Yeah, that'd definitely have a major impact on relative gun balance.
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Post by imrlybord7 on Aug 1, 2009 17:15:49 GMT -5
"swaybugfix" What douchebags (referring to the srs bzns peepl).
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Post by slashdolo on Aug 3, 2009 6:36:43 GMT -5
^You're failing to take recoil into consideration. The MP5 kick is... bad. It can be quite random and can net you some deaths simply because of the bad recoil. The MP5's recoil isn't bad at all, and recoil is borderline irrelevant at the ranges the MP5 excels at anyway, especially if you're firing from the hip. Sure, on occasion you might get a bad kick at 750 inches that costs you a miss... but the MP5's horizontal recoil is less than the P90s (which is significant because enemies are smaller horizontally than vertically), so if you're aiming for center mass, it's a rare enough occurrence. Sure, the MP5 is hella weak beyond 1000 inches, but most engagements take place closer than that (especially if you're deliberately playing to get in close-to-mid engagements because you're rocking an SMG). And as I said, the P90 is more likely to miss shots just because it requires more shots to kill (i.e. there are more opportunities for misses), and the MP5 maintains its kill speed advantage even if both guns miss a whopping FOUR shots. 'Fraid not. The 74u is great on the PC because the idle is a lot easier to compensate for with mouse and keyboard than it is with joystick. On the PC, the 74u is possibly the most accurate gun in the entire game, outside of the M4. On the console, the MP5 owns the 74u so hard it hurts. Here's a comparison of the relative advantages of each weapon. AK74u- 1. Better wall penetration. 2. less horizontal recoil. MP5- 1. idle factor of 2 compared to 40 for the 74u (which is a HUGE difference- again, idle is hard to compensate for on the console). 2. better movement speed (100% movement compared to 95% for the 74u). 3. ability to attach RDS/Silencer/ACOG without wrecking hip-fire accuracy. 4. *SIGNIFICANT* speed advantage when switching weapons, knifing, calling in UAV/airstrike/helicopters, planting claymores, tossing C4, throwing grenades, or throwing flares/stuns/smokes. Basically, the 74u takes .35 seconds longer to switch weapons, and .64 seconds longer to perform any of the other listed actions. On the console, the 74u's idle easily offsets the MP5's recoil, leaving both weapons comparably accurate (if not giving a slight edge to the MP5, since the 74u's horizontal idle greatly surpasses the MP5's horizontal recoil). After that, it's a matter of whether you'd rather have better wall penetration values, or faster movement speed, weapon attachments, *AND* faster action speed. The movement speed alone is more than enough to seal the deal for the MP5, imo. On the console, the 74u is demonstrably inferior to the MP5 when it's naked, and is demonstrably inferior to the AK47 when it has attachments (in addition to being even more demonstrably inferior to the MP5 when it has attachments). You're very biased toward the MP5. The advantages you listed for it wouldn't be so bad, but you're seriously digging deep in the game code to find negligible advantages. Fact of the matter is, the lower and more compensable recoil and better penetration factors are MUCH better than just about anything you listed as advantages for the MP5 save for idle sway (which you failed to mention can be lessened based on the position of your character with the 74u; also, the idle sway only becomes noticable at longer ranges, which is pretty much balanced with the MP5's heavy kick at longer ranges anyway) and attachment discrepencies. The 74u on consoles also gets Assault Rifle aim assist, rather than SMG aim assist, which you also failed to mention. And then there's the 74u's RifleBullet variable, which again you failed to mention! So, lets look at a comparison again without the bias. AK-74u- 1. Better penetration. 2. Less and more compensable overall kick/recoil 3. Longer (AR) aim assist on consoles 4. RifleBullet variable allowing body penetration with no damage loss MP5- 1. No idle sway 2. Slightly better movement speed (100% movement compared to 95% for the 74u). 3. ability to attach RDS/Silencer without losing hip-fire accuracy. 4. Slightly faster on in-game actions The 74u is clearly the best SMG in the game when using it with no attachments. Less overall kick than a P90, rifle-esque penetration, RifleBullet allowing easier multikills, longer aim assist than the other SMGs... all with 40-20 damage firing at 800 RPM, which ties it with the MP5 for the fastest TTK of all the SMG's. The idle sway can be bothersome at longer ranges though. When a silencer/RDS comes into play, the 74u gets AR hip accuracy. This takes the gun down a notch and balances it with the other SMGs. This is where the other SMG's like the MP5 have the advantage. Honestly though, if you're wanting to use an SMG with attachments, I'd say the P90 is a much better choice over the MP5 anyway simply for the better overall recoil/kick and the 50 bullet mag, which IMO negates the MP5's faster TTK at closer ranges.
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Post by ssog on Aug 4, 2009 4:42:08 GMT -5
You're very biased toward the MP5. The advantages you listed for it wouldn't be so bad, but you're seriously digging deep in the game code to find negligible advantages. Fact of the matter is, the lower and more compensable recoil and better penetration factors are MUCH better than just about anything you listed as advantages for the MP5 save for idle sway (which you failed to mention can be lessened based on the position of your character with the 74u; also, the idle sway only becomes noticable at longer ranges, which is pretty much balanced with the MP5's heavy kick at longer ranges anyway) and attachment discrepencies. The 74u on consoles also gets Assault Rifle aim assist, rather than SMG aim assist, which you also failed to mention. And then there's the 74u's RifleBullet variable, which again you failed to mention! So, lets look at a comparison again without the bias. AK-74u- 1. Better penetration. 2. Less and more compensable overall kick/recoil 3. Longer (AR) aim assist on consoles 4. RifleBullet variable allowing body penetration with no damage loss MP5- 1. No idle sway 2. Slightly better movement speed (100% movement compared to 95% for the 74u). 3. ability to attach RDS/Silencer without losing hip-fire accuracy. 4. Slightly faster on in-game actions The 74u is clearly the best SMG in the game when using it with no attachments. Less overall kick than a P90, rifle-esque penetration, RifleBullet allowing easier multikills, longer aim assist than the other SMGs... all with 40-20 damage firing at 800 RPM, which ties it with the MP5 for the fastest TTK of all the SMG's. The idle sway can be bothersome at longer ranges though. When a silencer/RDS comes into play, the 74u gets AR hip accuracy. This takes the gun down a notch and balances it with the other SMGs. This is where the other SMG's like the MP5 have the advantage. Honestly though, if you're wanting to use an SMG with attachments, I'd say the P90 is a much better choice over the MP5 anyway simply for the better overall recoil/kick and the 50 bullet mag, which IMO negates the MP5's faster TTK at closer ranges. The reason I'm very biased towards the MP5 is because it's A BETTER GUN. Let's start with the idle sway. Yes, it can be lessened by crouching or going prone. For starters, any SMG user who goes prone for pretty much any reason deserves the horrible death that is about to overtake them, which means the 74u's idle essentially can be reduced by crouching. The big problem with this, of course, is that the whole point of SMGs is you never have to crouch. You can travel silently at full speed while aiming down the sights, so crouching serves no real purpose except slowing you down (which is compounded by the fact that the 74u is ALREADY SLOWER THAN THE MP5) and putting your head right at gun-level for easier opponent headshots. About the only time you can practically lower the 74u's recoil is when you're trying to line up a long-range shot on an unsuspecting opponent from cover... but as you said, long range is where the idle screws you the most. Which means, for me, the idle sway remains a very big negative factor that there's no way to overcome (unlike the MP5, which can overcome its recoil by burst firing). Second off, you're right, I *DID* forget to mention that the AK74u gets AR aim assist instead of SMG aim assist. I don't know how I forgot to mention such an obvious negative, but thanks for pointing it out to me. You see, the SMG aim assist tends to operate better under 1000 inches, which is the ideal SMG engagement range. The AR aim assist doesn't work in close quarters (ideal SMG engagement range), but works better at long range (which, as I mentioned, is bad for the AK74 because of the idle). Also, speaking of idle, Aim Assist is more effective on weapons with no idle than it is on weapons with idle, so even though the AK74u gets a longer Aim Assist range, it can't take advantage of it. Also, another thing I forgot to mention is the MP5's ammo advantage, thanks to shared ammo with the M9. The MP5 starts with 120 bullets to the AK74u's 90. Set your perk1 to Bando, and the MP5 starts with 300 bullets to the 74u's 210. So, to get to the list: AK74u: *Better Recoil *Better Penetration (including RifleBullet) MP5: *More Ammo *Ability to equip attachments *No Idle *Better Aim Assist (due to more short-range assist and the lack of idle) *Faster move speed *Faster action speed Since, as I said, the idle and the recoil generally cancel each other out, rendering both guns comparable in the accuracy department, then the list gets pretty simple- the 74u's better penetration vs. the MP5's ammo, attachments, move speed, and action speed.
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qupie
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Post by qupie on Aug 4, 2009 5:54:11 GMT -5
And also a small advantage off picking up ammo from MP5, Uzi and M9 (last standers, especialy who has picket up another gun so get an M9)\ And the AK74 only gets ammo from other AK74 (wich isn't often on the xbox...)
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Aug 4, 2009 14:44:19 GMT -5
Fact of the matter is, the lower and more compensable recoil and better penetration factors are MUCH better than just about anything you listed as advantages for the MP5 save for idle sway (which you failed to mention can be lessened based on the position of your character with the 74u; also, the idle sway only becomes noticable at longer ranges, which is pretty much balanced with the MP5's heavy kick at longer ranges anyway) and attachment discrepencies. The 74u on consoles also gets Assault Rifle aim assist, rather than SMG aim assist, which you also failed to mention. And then there's the 74u's RifleBullet variable, which again you failed to mention! So, lets look at a comparison again without the bias. AK-74u- 1. Better penetration. 2. Less and more compensable overall kick/recoil 3. Longer (AR) aim assist on consoles 4. RifleBullet variable allowing body penetration with no damage loss MP5- 1. No idle sway 2. Slightly better movement speed (100% movement compared to 95% for the 74u). 3. ability to attach RDS/Silencer without losing hip-fire accuracy. 4. Slightly faster on in-game actions The 74u is clearly the best SMG in the game when using it with no attachments. Less overall kick than a P90, rifle-esque penetration, RifleBullet allowing easier multikills, longer aim assist than the other SMGs... all with 40-20 damage firing at 800 RPM, which ties it with the MP5 for the fastest TTK of all the SMG's. The idle sway can be bothersome at longer ranges though. When a silencer/RDS comes into play, the 74u gets AR hip accuracy. This takes the gun down a notch and balances it with the other SMGs. This is where the other SMG's like the MP5 have the advantage. Honestly though, if you're wanting to use an SMG with attachments, I'd say the P90 is a much better choice over the MP5 anyway simply for the better overall recoil/kick and the 50 bullet mag, which IMO negates the MP5's faster TTK at closer ranges. I really like the 74u, but I think people way overstate the kick on the MP5. Yeah it kicks, but it doesn't wander much, and overall it's very easy to control. And yes penetration is nice but honestly it's a rare scenario that it matters to me. 1) I'm not going to waste a lot of bullets on a guy who's behind cover (since I'm not a camper pinning someone down), and 2) most enemies are not lined up one behind the other. And if they are, they are still easy to multikill. I consider the two guns pretty even. The knife thing matters at least as much as penetration, to me. When I knife someone, I'm a sitting duck with the 74u. If two guys knife at each other and both miss, the guy with the MP5 is going to win the fight (unless the other guy has a pistol). If you knife guy A and guy B is still in the room attacking you, you're going to wish you had a faster weapon. Those scenarios play themselves out over and over in TDM.
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Aug 4, 2009 14:51:23 GMT -5
Actually, technically speaking, the MP5 will kill faster than the P90 at close quarters even if you miss FOUR shots. ___# | P90 | MP5 Miss | TTK | TTK ___0 |.195 |.150 ___1 |.260 |.225 ___2 |.325 |.300 ___3 |.390 |.375 ___4 |.455 |.450 ___5 |.520 |.525
Our numbers differ because you are assuming a P90 with SP while I was assuming DT. You also made my mistake of assuming there's a delay before the first shot, which there isn't. I've updated that little chart on the other page, if you are interested.
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Post by ssog on Aug 4, 2009 22:50:08 GMT -5
The knife thing matters at least as much as penetration, to me. When I knife someone, I'm a sitting duck with the 74u. If two guys knife at each other and both miss, the guy with the MP5 is going to win the fight (unless the other guy has a pistol). Even if the other guy does have a pistol, the MP5 will still win. All of the pistols take a full second to drop and raise. The MP5 takes .91 seconds, meaning it's faster than any pistol. The only guns that knife faster than the MP5 are the M16 (.60) and the G36c (.65). Also, the Saw knifes as quickly as the MP5, as odd as it sounds. Our numbers differ because you are assuming a P90 with SP while I was assuming DT. You also made my mistake of assuming there's a delay before the first shot, which there isn't. I've updated that little chart on the other page, if you are interested. \ My numbers don't assume SP with the P90. My numbers are assuming no perk 2. Also, I didn't make the mistake of assuming there's a delay before the first shot. A naked P90 with no perk 2 deals 30 damage at close range. Enemies have 100 health, which means 4 bullets are required to get the kill. The first bullet is instantaneous, and each additional bullet comes .065 seconds after the one before. If no bullets miss, the P90 kills in 3 x .065, or .195 seconds. Each miss adds .65 seconds to the TTK, meaning 1 miss raises TTK to .260, 2 misses raises TTK to .325, 3 misses raises TTK to .390, and N misses raises TTK to (.195 + .065 * N) seconds. Which matches the chart I posted. Ditto that for the MP5. I didn't bother calculating TTK with SP or DT, because the general relationship remains roughly the same.
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Aug 5, 2009 10:07:43 GMT -5
Even if the other guy does have a pistol, the MP5 will still win. All of the pistols take a full second to drop and raise. The MP5 takes .91 seconds, meaning it's faster than any pistol. The only guns that knife faster than the MP5 are the M16 (.60) and the G36c (.65). Also, the Saw knifes as quickly as the MP5, as odd as it sounds. There has to be some other factor in there, because I'm pretty sure a pistol lets you re-knife faster. (I will try this to be sure.) OK that explains it.
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Post by Protolisk on Aug 13, 2009 5:22:11 GMT -5
hmm so from p90 vs mp5 its now mp5 vs ak74u
But so far I think I'll go with MP5. THe ammo advantage and hip aim does it for me.
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Post by robesh on Aug 31, 2009 23:54:14 GMT -5
One conclusion that we can all agree on: The Skorpion sucks hard.
Flame away
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dog
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Post by dog on Sept 1, 2009 4:54:58 GMT -5
One conclusion that we can all agree on: The Skorpion sucks hard. Flame away
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j1000
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Post by j1000 on Sept 1, 2009 10:18:51 GMT -5
One conclusion that we can all agree on: The Skorpion sucks hard. Flame away It only sucks because the other SMGs are better. But you can get kills with it. It actually makes a decent short-medium range gun since the sights are so steady and the recoil is so low.
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Post by ssog on Sept 1, 2009 14:00:47 GMT -5
One conclusion that we can all agree on: The Skorpion sucks hard. The Skorpion doesn't suck, it's a niche gun. In certain niches (extreme CQC, extreme long range combat, hardcore), it pwns the living daylights out of the other SMGs. In other niches (medium-CQC, medium-range combat, multi-enemy combat), it gets totally pantsed. Stick to its strengths and it's a quality smg. Stick to its weaknesses and we'll taunt you to within an inch of your life. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries. The Uzi, on the other hand, sucks hard. It's a niche gun with no niche.
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Post by robesh on Sept 1, 2009 18:00:14 GMT -5
Agreed with ssog, Mini-Uzi is terrible. I should have said, Skorpion sucks hard for core, because, IMO, every SMG acts the same at extremely long range. For AR range, the AK-74 and Skorpion are good, but there is a point where even though the Skorpion is better, the others are good enough. The Skorpions benefits are overshadowed by its downfalls, one of the biggest being low magazine capacity. But of course, sometimes the Skorpion can be good enough for situations where the others are superior, but it happens less often, it really does depend on the situation. My biased way of looking at it is that if you are playing perfectly, you will never have to use an SMG for long range. That is why the MP5 is so good for clan matches, where most fights are around-the-corner style and most enemy routes can be easily predicted. Edit: I forgot to mention that the above opinions apply to Search and Destroy. In a free-flowing game like Team Deathmatch, anything can happen and almost every gun is balanced. One conclusion that we can all agree on: The Skorpion sucks hard. Flame away Ouch.
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