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Post by ssog on Dec 3, 2009 16:36:02 GMT -5
That definitely confirms the 35 minimum damage of the UMP and the 25 base of the Kriss. I thought the comparative numbers of the Cheytac and the Barrett were interesting... The OHK percentage was 69% for the Cheytac and 49% for the Barrett. Does that mean the Cheytac is more accurate, or that Barrett users are just crappier shots? It might just be an experience thing. The Barrett is an early unlock, so people use it first. by the time they get the later snipers, they've improved. Sort of like making a new profile on your XBox so you can post a higher k/d ratio now that you don't have all your learning curve pulling you down. |
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Post by legacy on Dec 3, 2009 16:53:19 GMT -5
I think cheytac users know they need a one hit kill to be successful long term so they train themselves not to just spam bullets around like I hear in game when someone has a 50 cal
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Post by imrlybord7 on Dec 3, 2009 19:33:20 GMT -5
No. Bolt action users need a low ROF cap to keep themselves from spamming because they have no self control. Real snipers have high accuracy and lots of OSKs with the WA2000 or M21.
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Post by ssog on Dec 3, 2009 20:33:34 GMT -5
To me, the coolest potential application of the MP log is that we can finally figure out what range most encounters occur at. For a 40-30 gun, just find the ratio of shots dealing 40 or 56 damage to shots dealing 30 or 42 damage. Obviously silencers and penetration would muddy the data a bit, but it'd still be really useful data when determining whether it was worth it to silence a gun or not.
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Post by chyros on Dec 3, 2009 20:48:40 GMT -5
That definitely confirms the 35 minimum damage of the UMP and the 25 base of the Kriss. I thought the comparative numbers of the Cheytac and the Barrett were interesting... The OHK percentage was 69% for the Cheytac and 49% for the Barrett. Does that mean the Cheytac is more accurate, or that Barrett users are just crappier shots? Note that these are not the only ingame values obtained  . Still, I'm assuming Intervention users are a lot more careful when and where they place their shots, so they will either miss or hit and presumably kill. With a Barrett you can often get in two shots before the target disappears, most of the time, so aiming for the head is less important. |
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kilo
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Post by kilo on Dec 3, 2009 22:52:51 GMT -5
Intervention users don't span from the hip in panic or follow up a miss with three unsteady shots. When they miss they just die instead.
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Post by jlesaistu on Dec 3, 2009 23:26:53 GMT -5
heh, seem to confirm silenced sniper really drop to 50 damage to, seing how many m21 hit did 50 damage. mush have been done using a silencer and hitting lower torse/limb.
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mdnl
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Post by mdnl on Dec 4, 2009 0:12:43 GMT -5
heh, seem to confirm silenced sniper really drop to 50 damage to, seing how many m21 hit did 50 damage. mush have been done using a silencer and hitting lower torse/limb. M21 is the only sniper I would silence tbh, the others just loose that oomph but the M21 needs 2 shots most of the time anyway. |
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n1gh7
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Post by n1gh7 on Dec 4, 2009 0:36:50 GMT -5
I'm going to start testing all the RPMs this Sunday maybe late Saturday. anyone with a 70 that can help me? I'm a 63 so I got most weapons unlocked, but I need the AK and other stuff.
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Post by morris on Dec 4, 2009 1:29:10 GMT -5
It might just be an experience thing. The Barrett is an early unlock, so people use it first. by the time they get the later snipers, they've improved. You get the Cheytac and the Barrett at the same time, so I don't think that's what's going on. M21 is the only sniper I would silence tbh, the others just loose that oomph but the M21 needs 2 shots most of the time anyway. I'm not really sure I see the point of silencing sniper rifles in most Core modes. Because of the killcam, if you kill someone with a sniper rifle, at least one person on the other team knows exactly where you are, so you should probably move anyway. I run a stealth kit with an unsilenced WA2000, and just move a lot. The stealth perks make sure nobody knows where I've been till I kill someone and move on. In Stiffcore mode though, or any Search and Destroy, a silencer makes more sense, and that seems like the M21's natural niche. |
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 4, 2009 2:49:35 GMT -5
Isn't this just one person's log so far? As for OHK percentages it will depend largely on their individual playstyle and what they used at various times in skill development. We could perhaps collate a number of logs to fill in the gaps as well as compensate for play styles.
We could also do as suggested and have someone delete their log then go test all of the weapons, carefully avoiding penetration shots and things that would skew the data. Probably do it once for SP and once without just to be double sure. Though it kinda sucks you can't just split screen that like on Xbox.
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 4, 2009 4:33:26 GMT -5
It is just one log right now, but he's on his second prestige, so there's a fair amount of data. If anyone else wants to send me some, I can combine it.
I'm reworking it right now to separate by configurations, and then by damage types, but I have a feeling each graph will be too sparse to be super useful, but I just want to make sure I try it in case there are any really strange surprise damage effects for attachments.
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 4, 2009 8:44:15 GMT -5
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 4, 2009 9:32:30 GMT -5
Interesting! Right off the bat this is suggesting that the headshot mod for the FAMAS is not 1.4, but may be 1.375. You can clearly see damage peaking at 56 and 40 normally but the headshot peaks are 77 and 55! Not that it makes too much difference, but it is interesting. I haven't even looked at the others, but I'm guessing similar results as in some rather interesting findings.
Also throwing knives and melee attacks are still one hit kills during painkiller, per Den.
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 4, 2009 9:43:48 GMT -5
Posted my edit after you posted. I guess the headshot multiplier for non-snipers is just 1.375.
40 * 1.4 * 1.375 = 77
FAL headshots are doing 106 which is consistent, too.
55 * 1.4 * 1.375 = 105.875
Edit:
It looks like shotguns don't get a headshot damage bonus.
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Post by legacy on Dec 4, 2009 9:57:02 GMT -5
No. Bolt action users need a low ROF cap to keep themselves from spamming because they have no self control. Real snipers have high accuracy and lots of OSKs with the WA2000 or M21. Lets try not to make this a "real sniper" debate or what sniper rifle is "pro". Just like most other guns, the higher the rate of fire = the more bullets miss.(when looking at the average sprayer and prayer) |
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Post by purple on Dec 4, 2009 10:52:18 GMT -5
Don't mean to be rude but is it just me or are the links broken? |
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 4, 2009 11:01:40 GMT -5
They work for me. Check your DNS?
The markup is fairly substantial in size, and there's a ton of images, so you might have to give it some time to load.
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 4, 2009 11:56:45 GMT -5
I don't know about the minimum values, but Den's shotgun upper damage numbers look right to me. Not getting good spikes on the graphs to show any obvious lower end values. Missing the M1014. Looks like 40 max on that one.
Here's what I got for shotgun upper values and shot count:
AA-12: 20x8
M1014: 40x8
Model 1887: 35x8
Ranger: 75x6
SPAS: 40x8
Striker: 25x6
MasterKey: ? 25x6
I don't know what MasterKey is filed under. Maybe there's no use of it in fojji's log. Den found it. I trust his interpretation of 30.
MasterKey is in with the AR data. Search for "shotgun_attach". Most of the shotgun attachment values are 35, which could mean 35x6 or 25x6, depending on Stopping Power. Unfortunately, there's only shotgun damage registered with an M4, and there's data for a shotgun attachment only, with no SP, and a holo/shotgun bling M4, with SP. Looking at it in context, the guy who was using it had SP, so I guess it does 25.
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Post by fojji on Dec 4, 2009 15:30:24 GMT -5
If you want I can create a new log and fill in the weapons with low numbers.
Using the M21 atm since that seemed like it had the least amount of data.
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 4, 2009 16:04:10 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the data I want is all in the file you already gave me. It just needs to be mined out properly. This step, I just wanted to look for anomalies. Just having everything separated so I can identify problems and what causes them.
If I combine configurations (i.e. into one bucket for silenced, and one bucket for everything else), I think the data will be more clear to read. Hopefully I can pick out minimum damages for shotguns that way, for example. That's my next step. If I'm totally wrong about that, then I'd be glad to take more data, but for now don't trouble yourself to use anything you don't like using. Thanks a lot, though.
The M21 seems pretty clear. The tentative numbers people got from experimenting are probably spot on. I'll do a body parts breakdown for sniper rifles later just to be safe.
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 4, 2009 16:09:05 GMT -5
Incidentally, I feel I may have been wrong about the combined damage on shotgun shots. I don't know how to explain that 198 max damage on the AA-12.
Search for "aa12_xmags_mp" to see it.
I'll take a closer look at it later, in context, but I really have no idea right now.
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kilo
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Post by kilo on Dec 4, 2009 17:53:29 GMT -5
Do you think you can compare the thumper to the grenade launcher. If they're equal I'm taking a sight, but the grenade launcher always seems to do more damage.
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Post by morris on Dec 4, 2009 18:22:01 GMT -5
I just took a cursory look through the Thumper and GL attach damages, but both seem to max at just over 200, and the damage ranges seem pretty equivalent. Using the Thumper myself, it always seemed like it had different ballistics than the M203 attachments. The problem may not be damage, but rather accuracy.
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playn
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Post by playn on Dec 4, 2009 23:58:03 GMT -5
i thought this was interesting so it might be confirmed in the mp log somewhere we all know that the riot shield is a two-hit-kill, but even when hitting someone with Painkiller active, its still a 2-hit-kill when technically it should be 3x that (6hits) so i guess riot shield does a fair bit more damage than i first thought.. unless that when you have painkiller on the damage multipliers are changed instead of the actual health? and then all melee attacks dont run by multipliers? just taking a stab here (no pun intended  ) |
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Post by dchoi41 on Dec 5, 2009 2:46:54 GMT -5
Melee attacks seem to be 135-139 for knives, and 50-54 for shields. I haven't seen any deviation from that. It's got to be some multiplier play or something. Maybe Painkiller damage is scaled down 2/3.
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 5, 2009 4:16:02 GMT -5
The way Painkiller works is that, when hit with a melee or throwing knife projectile, it is treated as though he only has 100 health.
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mannon
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Post by mannon on Dec 5, 2009 8:33:38 GMT -5
Could the slash attack and the charge attack have slightly different damage values or is it a range of many values rather than just two different damage values for the attacks?
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Den
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Post by Den on Dec 5, 2009 9:18:13 GMT -5
The damage is a static 135 (or 50 for shields bash).
I don't know why it does, but melee strikes have some small, floating amount of extra damage.
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playn
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Post by playn on Dec 7, 2009 8:08:32 GMT -5
i think i read somewhere that when silenced, the M21 EBR is always a 2-hit kill, even to the head
well, i was using it silenced today and someone snuck up on me, he had full health as i saw him running towards me, he got close, i shot and sprayed with the M21 and realised i got a one-hit-kill. it even came up on the screen saying "One Shot Kill" and it wasnt a headshot (if i remember right it wasnt)
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. Still, I'm assuming Intervention users are a lot more careful when and where they place their shots, so they will either miss or hit and presumably kill. With a Barrett you can often get in two shots before the target disappears, most of the time, so aiming for the head is less important. 
)
