W2000 and M21 EBR - Differences?

[ssog]

Dec 21, 2009 3:02:18 GMT -5 xenon said:

Silencer
Cold Blooded = M21 EBR (2 shots to kill)
Stopping Power = WA2000 (1 shot kill to head and chest)

No Silencer
Cold Blooded = WA2000 (1 shot kill to head and chest)
Stopping power = .50 Barret [or Intervention] (1 shot kill to head, chest and body) [or M21 EBR (1 shot kill to head and chest)]

Dec 21, 2009 8:35:09 GMT -5 mannon said:

I thought a Table would be Handy.

Sniper Rifle Usage	(1x) Stopping Power	(1.4x) Stopping Power
(50dmg) Silencer	(50dmg) M21 EBR*	(70dmg) WA2000
(70dmg) Silencer	(70dmg) WA2000	(98dmg) Barret .50cal/Intervention**

I think what you guys really meant to say was
M21- Stopping Power / Silencer
WA2000- Stopping Power / Silencer or
WA2000- Stopping Power / Silencer
Barrett- Stopping Power / Silencer
Intervention- Killing / Dying

[xenon]

Is it just me or... Is taking a second shot with WA2000 less effected if you held your breath on the previous shot?

(Also - stopping power and not using silencer let you OHK with M21 EBR to head and chest, while still having fast rate of fire and low recoil to let you get a second shot easy if you miss the OHK areas - but Yes, I normally suggest using .50 Barret for a sniper without silencer when using stopping power -> as it let you OHK to body as well [but still not limbs]).

[toad]

Define "less effective" I'm lost on that one mate.

I wasn't aware the M21 could OHK to the chest without Stopping Power. I'm fairly sure it follows the same rules as in COD4, where it makes only a 1.1 multiplier for the chest.

[mannon]

Like I said, I thought a table would be handy. We're all saying basically the same thing. In fact the only reason I didn't use red/green for without/with as you did is because I wanted to use red, yellow, and orange to indicate damage and some people have trouble distinguishing between red and green. (More people than you would think.) Hence why I also used strikethrough.

We're all saying the same thing, I just like tables. ;p

[mannon]

He said using Stopping Power but no Silencer let you 1HK with the M21 to the chest. It is a 1.1 multiplier to chest, but when doing 98 damage it can 1HK to the chest same as the other sniper rifles, only the Barret .50cal and Intervention can also 1HK to the stomach.

He also said less "effected", not "effective". I assume that he meant less affected by the previous shot. I think that the recoil is probably the same, but if you're still holding your breath then you are removing idle which doesn't stop just because you're recoiling. Removing idle from the equation should improve things especially if the recoil is more predictable than random.

[toad]

Ah, gotcha.

[novanleon]

Here is the sniper rifle breakdown, FYI:

Unique Body-Part Damage Multipliers:

Weapon - Head, Chest, Body, Limbs
Intervention - 1.5, 1.5, 1.1, 1.0
Barrett .50cal - 1.5, 1.5, 1.1, 1.0
WA2000 - 1.5, 1.5, 1.0, 1.0
M21 EBR - 1.5, 1.1, 1.0, 1.0

Sniper Rifle Damage Totals:

Weapon - Head, Chest, Body, Limbs
Intervention - 105, 105, 77, 70
Intervention (w/Silencer) - 75, 75, 55, 50
Intervention (w/SP) - 147, 147, 107.8, 98
Intervention (w/Silencer & SP) - 105, 105, 77, 70

Barrett .50cal - 105, 105, 77, 70
Barrett .50cal (w/Silencer) - 75, 75, 55, 50
Barrett .50cal (w/SP) - 147, 147, 107.8, 98
Barrett .50cal (w/Silencer & SP) - 105, 105, 77, 70

WA2000 - 105, 105, 70, 70
WA2000 (w/Silencer) - 75, 75, 50, 50
WA2000 (w/SP) - 147, 147, 98, 98
WA2000 (w/Silencer & SP) - 105, 105, 70, 70

M21 EBR - 105, 77, 70, 70
M21 EBR (w/Silencer) - 75, 55, 50, 50
M21 EBR (w/SP) - 147, 107.8, 98, 98
M21 EBR (w/Silencer & SP) - 105, 77, 70, 70

Sniper Rifle Hit Requirements:

Weapon - Head, Chest, Body, Limbs
Intervention - 1, 1, 2, 2
Intervention (w/Silencer) - 2, 2, 2, 2
Intervention (w/SP) - 1, 1, 1, 2
Intervention (w/Silencer & SP) - 1, 1, 2, 2

Barrett .50cal - 1, 1, 2, 2
Barrett .50cal (w/Silencer) - 2, 2, 2, 2
Barrett .50cal (w/SP) - 1, 1, 1, 2
Barrett .50cal (w/Silencer & SP) - 1, 1, 2, 2

WA2000 - 1, 1, 2, 2
WA2000 (w/Silencer) - 2, 2, 2, 2
WA2000 (w/SP) - 1, 1, 2, 2
WA2000 (w/Silencer & SP) - 1, 1, 2, 2

M21 EBR - 1, 2, 2, 2
M21 EBR (w/Silencer) - 2, 2, 2, 2
M21 EBR (w/SP) - 1, 1, 2, 2
M21 EBR (w/Silencer & SP) - 1, 2, 2, 2

[corwinwarner]

Great chart! Thanks

[mannon]

Oh crap... Now I have to convert my handy excel spreadsheet of that into a forum table...

---

Sniper Rifles					Hits to Kill					Damage					Multipliers
Weapon	SP	Silencer	Base Dmg		Head/Neck	Chest	Stomach	Other		Head/Neck	Chest	Stomach	Other		Head/Neck	Chest	Stomach	Other
Intervention	Yes	No	98		1	1	1	2		147	147	107	98		1.5	1.5	1.1	1
Barret .50cal	Yes	No	98		1	1	1	2		147	147	107	98		1.5	1.5	1.1	1
WA2000	Yes	No	98		1	1	2	2		147	147	98	98		1.5	1.5	1	1
M21 EBR	Yes	No	98		1	1	2	2		147	107	98	98		1.5	1.1	1	1
Intervention	Yes	Yes	70		1	1	2	2		105	105	77	70		1.5	1.5	1.1	1
Barret .50cal	Yes	Yes	70		1	1	2	2		105	105	77	70		1.5	1.5	1.1	1
WA2000	Yes	Yes	70		1	1	2	2		105	105	70	70		1.5	1.5	1	1
M21 EBR	Yes	Yes	70		1	2	2	2		105	77	70	70		1.5	1.1	1	1
Intervention	No	No	70		1	1	2	2		105	105	77	70		1.5	1.5	1.1	1
Barret .50cal	No	No	70		1	1	2	2		105	105	77	70		1.5	1.5	1.1	1
WA2000	No	No	70		1	1	2	2		105	105	70	70		1.5	1.5	1	1
M21 EBR	No	No	70		1	2	2	2		105	77	70	70		1.5	1.1	1	1
Intervention	No	Yes	50		2	2	2	2		75	75	55	50		1.5	1.5	1.1	1
Barret .50cal	No	Yes	50		2	2	2	2		75	75	55	50		1.5	1.5	1.1	1
WA2000	No	Yes	50		2	2	2	2		75	75	50	50		1.5	1.5	1	1
M21 EBR	No	Yes	50		2	2	2	2		75	55	50	50		1.5	1.1	1	1

Legend
Values = Low Average High
Usage = Off On
Hits to Kill = Better Worse

Of course, for all that the only truly important information in it is the HtK chest column and to a lesser extent the stomach one as well. Head/Neck and Other are exactly the same for all rifles but included for completeness.

I'm almost tempted to throw the FAL (long & short) in there just for giggles.

BTW I colored 98 as high in the base damage column and only average in the actual damage column on purpose. Even though 98 is pretty high damage since it will still require 2 hits to kill in core vs an uninjured target I thought it better to make 100 the cutoff in those columns between average and high. Technically it is still high, just not high enough, but I felt this would be more informative.

Similarly in the multipliers I would normally consider 1 average and anything over that high, but I wanted to use all three colors to make the three different values visually distinct.

[n1gh7]

You guys are really over complicating things.
What you need to do is:

1. remember the multipliers for each gun

2. know that a 1.5 multiplier kills without stopping power or with silencer and stopping power

3. know that a 1.1 multiplier only kills with stopping power

4. know that a 1.0 multiplier never kills

that's it

[mannon]

The previous table was the simple version. This is more of a full disclosure table including redundant data. For example the damage stats for using SP+Silencer or No SP+No Silencer are exactly the same. And from the standpoint of damage and multiplier stats the .50cal and Intervention are the same weapon.

For more of a quick guide on what to use I recommend the previous table, it was pretty simple.

[ssog]

Dec 23, 2009 8:34:24 GMT -5 xenon said:

Is it just me or... Is taking a second shot with WA2000 less effected if you held your breath on the previous shot?

All snipers behave the same as they did in CoD4. Firing while holding your breath increases recoil, which means if you're trying to land a quick two-hit kill, you're better off firing while idling if you can manage it.

[chyros]

Dec 23, 2009 14:58:57 GMT -5 n1gh7 said:

You guys are really over complicating things.
What you need to do is:

1. remember the multipliers for each gun

2. know that a 1.5 multiplier kills without stopping power or with silencer and stopping power

3. know that a 1.1 multiplier only kills with stopping power

4. know that a 1.0 multiplier never kills

that's it

Make it simpler: stopping power and a silencer cancel each other out. Even less needed to remember.

[bobysk8]

My take on things.
I love sniping, even in situations when i shouldn't haha.

First time through i loved the intervention
second time through i loved the barrett
third time through im loving the WA2000

only one i havent loved so far is the m21, infact quite dislike it, probably because i play core and like OHK's. i dont want to have to take a second shot, i like being clinical.

Charts are good though, and re inforce what ive learnt through play.

P.s. i love thermal

[xenon]

Dec 23, 2009 9:10:54 GMT -5 toad said:

Define "less effective" I'm lost on that one mate.

I wasn't aware the M21 could OHK to the chest without Stopping Power. I'm fairly sure it follows the same rules as in COD4, where it makes only a 1.1 multiplier for the chest.

You need to read my post again mate.

I typed effected, not effective. As in... when you hold your breathe and take a shot, your aim will be more effected by recoil and your weapon will sway back and fourth more after the shot than if you don't hold your breathe when taking the shot. I got the feeling (have not actually tested it) that WA2000 had less of a sway back and fourth after taking a shot while holding the breathe than M21 EBR (which let me follow up with another shot if the first missed, even if i held my breathe).

Second. I said that M21 EBR could be a viable option to .50 Barret (or Intervention) when you USE stopping power (and no silencer) as the 1.5 multiple would let you kill to the head and the 1.1 hit multiple would let you OHK to the chest. The difference is that .50 Barret and Intervention have much higher recoil than M21 EBR (so you cant accurately follow up with a second bullet if the first missed or didn't kill) and that .50 Barret and Intervention OHK to head, chest and stomach while M21 EBR only OHK to head and chest.

edit: Ohh, others already commented on that. Good catch.

Dec 23, 2009 21:55:42 GMT -5 bobysk8 said:

only one i havent loved so far is the m21, infact quite dislike it, probably because i play core and like OHK's. i dont want to have to take a second shot, i like being clinical.

Then again... with stopping power M21 EBR without silencer OHK to the head and upper chest...

Having said that, I personally only use M21 EBR with cold blooded + silencer (which is a 2 bullet kill in core... doable, but being all stealthy in core is kinda pointless due to the killcam anyway. In hardcore, however, it is a really powerful 1 bullet kill even to a limb - where the victim also does not get a killcam).

[infininja]

Xenon, effected isn't a word as you used it. Effective is a word that could fit, as could affected. The confusion came from you.

[xenon]

Dec 24, 2009 23:17:31 GMT -5 infininja said:

Xenon, effected isn't a word as you used it. Effective is a word that could fit, as could affected. The confusion came from you.

Then I stand corrected.

(English is not my native language...)

[talon1579]

I still can't see the point of using anything but the Barret/Intervention - if you're going for 2 shot kills, you may as well use a M16, FAL or ACR. I suppose if you go for a silenced/SP rifle you'd want the WA2000. What's the ammo capacity on that?

[adree]

Dec 25, 2009 18:34:59 GMT -5 talon1579 said:

I still can't see the point of using anything but the Barret/Intervention - if you're going for 2 shot kills, you may as well use a M16, FAL or ACR. I suppose if you go for a silenced/SP rifle you'd want the WA2000. What's the ammo capacity on that?

24 rounds, which means you are using OMA or didn't intend to live very long anyway. There are enough sniper threads (including this one) that debate the usefulness of each and I think it's really a matter of playing style (with the exception of the silenced EBR being a clear winner in Hardcore).

[cptmacmillan]

I still can't see the point of using anything but the Barret/Intervention - if you're going for 2 shot kills, you may as well use a M16, FAL or ACR. I suppose if you go for a silenced/SP rifle you'd want the WA2000. What's the ammo capacity on that?

This has got to be the most stupid sentence I've read on this board. It's absolutely amazing how you managed to pack so much stupidity into one post.

1. All of the sniper rifles are perfectly capable of killing in one shot, not just m200/g82.
2. ACR will never be a two shot kill, and instead will be a five or four shot kill at sniper range.
3. M16 will only be a two shot kill at close range with stopping power.
4. FAL is only a two shot kill at short range, not at sniper range.
5. None of the aforementioned rifles give ghillie suits, 100% movement speed, any chance at a one shot kill, or any chance of a two shot kill at sniper range.

[chyros]

Dec 25, 2009 22:20:58 GMT -5 cptmacmillan said:

I still can't see the point of using anything but the Barret/Intervention - if you're going for 2 shot kills, you may as well use a M16, FAL or ACR. I suppose if you go for a silenced/SP rifle you'd want the WA2000. What's the ammo capacity on that?

This has got to be the most stupid sentence I've read on this board. It's absolutely amazing how you managed to pack so much stupidity into one post.

1. All of the sniper rifles are perfectly capable of killing in one shot, not just m200/g82.
2. ACR will never be a two shot kill, and instead will be a five or four shot kill at sniper range.
3. M16 will only be a two shot kill at close range with stopping power.
4. FAL is only a two shot kill at short range, not at sniper range.
5. None of the aforementioned rifles give ghillie suits, 100% movement speed, any chance at a one shot kill, or any chance of a two shot kill at sniper range.

He's probably assuming you make one or more headshots. Which, tbh, is really easy to do with an ACR at sniper range. Even so, you'd need to make two or three headshots, depending on how the game rounds damage up or down.

[talon1579]

Dec 25, 2009 22:20:58 GMT -5 cptmacmillan said:

I still can't see the point of using anything but the Barret/Intervention - if you're going for 2 shot kills, you may as well use a M16, FAL or ACR. I suppose if you go for a silenced/SP rifle you'd want the WA2000. What's the ammo capacity on that?

This has got to be the most stupid sentence I've read on this board. It's absolutely amazing how you managed to pack so much stupidity into one post.

1. All of the sniper rifles are perfectly capable of killing in one shot, not just m200/g82.
2. ACR will never be a two shot kill, and instead will be a five or four shot kill at sniper range.
3. M16 will only be a two shot kill at close range with stopping power.
4. FAL is only a two shot kill at short range, not at sniper range.
5. None of the aforementioned rifles give ghillie suits, 100% movement speed, any chance at a one shot kill, or any chance of a two shot kill at sniper range.

I'm presuming you're one of those "snipers" who runs around "quick-scoping" and essentially using the rifle like an assault rifle. If you actually concealed yourself and shot non-snipers at the kind of ranges the sniper rile is designed for, you'd want the security of a near-guaranteed 1-shot kill.

[xenon]

Dec 26, 2009 8:23:56 GMT -5 talon1579 said:

Dec 25, 2009 22:20:58 GMT -5 cptmacmillan said:

This has got to be the most stupid sentence I've read on this board. It's absolutely amazing how you managed to pack so much stupidity into one post.

1. All of the sniper rifles are perfectly capable of killing in one shot, not just m200/g82.
2. ACR will never be a two shot kill, and instead will be a five or four shot kill at sniper range.
3. M16 will only be a two shot kill at close range with stopping power.
4. FAL is only a two shot kill at short range, not at sniper range.
5. None of the aforementioned rifles give ghillie suits, 100% movement speed, any chance at a one shot kill, or any chance of a two shot kill at sniper range.

I'm presuming you're one of those "snipers" who runs around "quick-scoping" and essentially using the rifle like an assault rifle. If you actually concealed yourself and shot non-snipers at the kind of ranges the sniper rile is designed for, you'd want the security of a near-guaranteed 1-shot kill.

You would also want to play hardcore, since core show your target where in the tall grass you are hiding. And in hardcore cold blooded silenced M21 EBR (or WA2000) one shot kill even if you have to penetrate a glass window or a thin concrete wall

In core, you should pretty much always be on the move after killing one, or maybe two targets. No point in using a silencer. WA2000+FMJ, Slight of Hand and Lightweight let you sprint from sniper position to sniper position and even take an almost instant sniper shot the second you see a target in the terrain.

[n1gh7]

Dec 26, 2009 4:39:17 GMT -5 chyros said:

Dec 25, 2009 22:20:58 GMT -5 cptmacmillan said:

This has got to be the most stupid sentence I've read on this board. It's absolutely amazing how you managed to pack so much stupidity into one post.

1. All of the sniper rifles are perfectly capable of killing in one shot, not just m200/g82.
2. ACR will never be a two shot kill, and instead will be a five or four shot kill at sniper range.
3. M16 will only be a two shot kill at close range with stopping power.
4. FAL is only a two shot kill at short range, not at sniper range.
5. None of the aforementioned rifles give ghillie suits, 100% movement speed, any chance at a one shot kill, or any chance of a two shot kill at sniper range.

He's probably assuming you make one or more headshots. Which, tbh, is really easy to do with an ACR at sniper range. Even so, you'd need to make two or three headshots, depending on how the game rounds damage up or down.

Gargin (sp?) said the damage is always rounded down.

[mannon]

Generally any multiplier that would result in a decimal the damage is simply truncated down to the nearest integer. There are also a few things which can result in a few points difference from what you might expect, for example I believe that MP log testing has show that the AR headshot multipliers are coming out under 1.4 just a bit. In fact the numbers suggest 1.375, though it's hard to tell if the damage is being truncated to the damage values we are seeing or not. Though we do know that a multiplier of exactly 1.4 like we have assumed even with truncation would result in some slightly higher damage statistics than we are seeing.

At any rate all the basic info will get you within about +/- 3 or so of the correct number anyway and usually +/- 1, so it's not that big a deal. The SP multiplier seems to be spot on, though, so we've not really seen any changes in hits to kill.

[talon1579]

Dec 26, 2009 8:45:26 GMT -5 xenon said:

In core, you should pretty much always be on the move after killing one, or maybe two targets. No point in using a silencer. WA2000+FMJ, Slight of Hand and Lightweight let you sprint from sniper position to sniper position and even take an almost instant sniper shot the second you see a target in the terrain.

If you stay zoomed in long enough, though, they wont be able to figure out where you are from killcam.

[toad]

The problem with that is, the KillCam shows mostly the time beofre the actual shot, so you have to be zoomed in for a while before you make the shot - unlikely, unless you're sure nobody is gonna take you out from another angle.

If you can find a decent position to snipe, I find it's typically more benifical to use no SP, and no silencer. So use CB as your perk 2. I got 16 kills in a row with my m21 yesterday on Wasteland before someone finally got me. I was proned in the grass, tough to spot. Avoided UAVs and aircraft because of the CB perk.

[kaster]

Dec 24, 2009 16:42:18 GMT -5 xenon said:

when you hold your breathe and take a shot, your aim will be more effected by recoil and your weapon will sway back and fourth more after the shot than if you don't hold your breathe

Quick note on this... this will happen just from holding your breath too long (even if you never take the shot.) I hold my breath frequently and never noticed increased recoil unless I held it for a long time.

[mannon]

So if you take your shot quickly after holding your breath is there no affect on recoil?

[ssog]

Jan 1, 2010 7:07:09 GMT -5 mannon said:

So if you take your shot quickly after holding your breath is there no affect on recoil?

Dunno for sure about MW2 since I haven't sniped much, but in CoD4 it didn't matter how long (or how short) you'd been holding your breath, any shot had additional recoil.