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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 12:33:43 GMT -5
hey guys, ne wto the fourms thought id start of witha good old evaluation I've just finished an exhausting session using the f2000. Good fun to use and love how different it is to all the other laser pointer ARs we have on offer. Problem is it doesnt really behave anything like an assault rifle. The UMP is a better assault rifle lol. to explain it statistically ill compare the M4, F2000 an the UMP. first of lets just look at damage. M4 30% damage close range, 20 long.(30-20) F2000 30 close - 20 long. (30-20) UMP 40 close - 35 far (40-35) OK so far doesn't look too bad. Same damage as M4, little less long damage than UMP (its an smg so will have reduced long range accuracy). Now when we look at the accuracy things start looking terrible. Ive taken the liberty of using das147639's recoil test to show the massive difference in recoil. see here denkirson.proboards.com/index.cg ... thread=417 the M4's recoil allows u to put a whole mag of ammo into a target with little or no deviation. excellent weapon good all rounder. moving on to UMP we get a larger group at the same range (obviously because its an SMG) Then we get to the F2000, and wtf huge grouping, not even huge and predictable just everywhere. so at range its M4>UMP>F2000. yeah SMG trumps AR at range now ive heard alot of people say its a beast up close, well yeah with its insane rate of fire it should be. except that is, it having assault rifle hip accuracy. so it loses out to everything as going full auto even close range can be a gamble. so in summary the F2000 makes a better smg than assault rifle, targets running off before you can put enough bullets into them (which would be relatively simple with any other AR. And even as an SMG it blows compared to SMGs. So erm what is the point of it??? The only fix i see for this weapon is to give it the same damage as the TAR,SCAR and AK47. 40-30 would enable 4 hit kills at long range which whilst still requiring skill wont render the weapon innefective. Even 30-30 would be great as the RoF is great for close up. So if anyone has any opinions whatsoever, discuss how to get this interesting weapon to be more than than just that, and maybe get it competetive. we've all whinged about wanting certain weapons nerfed to help balance, how about buffing one for the cause too?? you're my bro, bro
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Post by talon1579 on Dec 19, 2009 12:58:27 GMT -5
Bascially they've tried to shove too many Assault rifles in. The AUG is essentially an assault rifle masquerading as a LMG.
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 13:37:02 GMT -5
completely agree talon. Assault rifle with big mag and no range/damage drop off.
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Post by chyros on Dec 19, 2009 13:44:43 GMT -5
Brace yourself, for I am about to call an assault rifle underpowered.
It's underpowered.
Okay. Now it does kind of need a beef, even if you toned down the other assault rifles to balanced values it'd be weaker than them. Maybe 40-30, actual 40-30 which is pretty much nuclear on an assault rifle, would be justified on it. MAYBE. 35-30 would be a good alternative, perhaps.
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 13:57:11 GMT -5
yeah i was thinking that 40 close would be way over power at 850-900rpm. it needs a power range boost tho. ong an underpowered assult
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gus
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Post by gus on Dec 19, 2009 14:05:34 GMT -5
The F2000 is hands down the best gun in the game from the hip. Try playing it more like an SMG.
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 14:45:49 GMT -5
thats the point gus, its an assault rifle
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 19, 2009 15:23:00 GMT -5
f2k has a purpous & it fills that role very well.
that purpose is to appease the SAW hip-fire spammers from cod4 by giving them an ungodly ROF weapon they can attempt to kill via steady aim. yet the ability to move around without the movement rate, or ADS time penalty.
it is very good at that. that's why its made to be so inaccurate. if it was any better via hip-fire spread / ads muzzle rise it would be ungodly IMBA.
its just one of those nich weapons most people would never like to use.
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 15:35:02 GMT -5
toysrme, the p90 has roughly the same damage and rate of fire. just seems like its an SMG just skinned wth F2000 and reduce hip accuracy and mobility
also in no way do iwant ADS or hip accuracy changed, just long range damage so it can actually BE an assault rifle. as now it requires so much more effort to get even mid range kills than any othe gun in its class
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Post by ssog on Dec 19, 2009 15:42:49 GMT -5
The F2000 is hands down the best gun in the game from the hip. Try playing it more like an SMG. The MP5, UMP, Uzi, P90, and Vector all smoke it from the hip because of the tighter spread (and the ability to Akimbo, for whatever that's worth). All of the shotguns beat it from the hip, too, and the G18 and possibly even the Raffi beat it, as well. Heck, an argument could be made that even the magnum tops the F2k.
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 15:45:50 GMT -5
hahahah magnum does lol, i have it as my secondary for long range shots dont ask me why im using F2000, i guess i started testing it out then fell in love with its 'hump'
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 19, 2009 16:04:00 GMT -5
what the f2k boils down to is can you keep shots on target at medium range and beyond with the trigger held down in ADS
if you can - its an absolute smoker if you can not - youll get smoked
said it b4 and ill continue to say it, with so many weapons being able to full-auto onto targets. manually burst firing weapons is out the window in MW2. you could get away with it in 4&5. its no longer approprtiate when even a massive gun like the TAR can keep 3-4-5 bullets on target in full auto @ long range without much problem at all
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Post by rocketshiptothemoo on Dec 19, 2009 16:05:01 GMT -5
The best they could do is probably improve its power and maybe even its range. I don't wanna say reduce the recoil because theres way too many guns with low recoil in this game.
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 16:15:47 GMT -5
i agree. and this gun actually has a lurning curve. i wanna be rewarded for that curve tho. if i master a weapon i wanna beat others who haven't mastered theres. not to just be on par with them
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Post by jlesaistu on Dec 19, 2009 16:23:28 GMT -5
Well, they could try reduce recoil a little. but not much of it would just then destroy ACR and M4.
or keep the recoil and make the damage a little better. 35-25 with a little increased range could be great. it would then make a very good no SP gun,
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Post by slashdolo on Dec 19, 2009 17:06:11 GMT -5
Give the thing 40-20 damage. Give it SMG hip accuracy and range. Lower the rate of fire to 800 RPMs, reduce the recoil a bit and call it the AK-74u. Please
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 17:09:15 GMT -5
or give it 35-30, so it works as an assault rifle and stoipping power would give limited benefit
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Post by chyros on Dec 19, 2009 17:43:23 GMT -5
Or just ignore the darn thing and OP-lame the hell out of the ACR like everyone and their dog does . Frankly there's a lot to be said for any kind of buff but we need mod tools for that first, I guess >_> .
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 17:47:29 GMT -5
sorry chyros i never walk away form a good cause!!!! lol
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Dec 19, 2009 17:57:14 GMT -5
The F2000 was the first weapon I decided to get Fall camo with, with that said I have A LOT of experience with the weapon and here is my conclusion on it:
The F2000 is obviously the fastest firing AR in the game, shooting at least 200 rounds faster than any other AR, but it also has the most view kick of any AR. The main problem with the weapon isn't so much that it has the most view kick, but that its view kick is UNPREDICTABLE... Sometimes the F2000 will be able to put 10 rounds into a relatively close grouping, but the next 10 rounds could go all over the place! Its firing pattern just isn't reliable, the F2000's firing pattern is most similar to the L86 (LMG), but at least the L86 is somewhat predictable - it mostly kicks upwards.
The second problem with the F2000 is due to the weapons high RPM - its obtrusive muzzle flash can blinds even the most skilled users. Using a Silencer or Holo-Sight is highly recommended for noobies. ...I only use FMJ on it. I don't recommend using a silencer on it unless you use SP, otherwise you're asking for trouble in any mid-to-long range fire fight.
The F2000 is for players who excel at close combat and/or enjoy hip-firing, similar to SMG users. Or for players who can group their shots with a few bursts at mid-to-long range. The F2000 (with FMJ) is my secret weapon for 30HP mode because it fires so fast that I'm usually able to spray and prey even in the most dire situations (assuming its CQC).
For normal health mode players - the best thing going for the F2000 is that, because it fires at warp speed you'll have the ability to hit your enemy so many times in a short period of time that their aim will never re-center to shoot you back.
IMO, the F2000 is the most unique AR, and I greatly respect any user who wields it well.
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 17:58:44 GMT -5
from your experience acidsnow would a 35-30 damage increase help level the playing field??
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acidsnow
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Post by acidsnow on Dec 19, 2009 18:13:16 GMT -5
from your experience acidsnow would a 35-30 damage increase help level the playing field?? I'd honestly have to say that adding damage to the F2000 would probably be a bad idea. It already dispenses rounds at a ridiculous rate, and if you get used to it, you will be able to take down any opponent at close to mid range w/out stopping power (or this proposed damage buff). Buffing the F2000 to deal 35-30 damage would make the weapon excel at what it's already king of - close range combat. If I were to give the F2000 a buff, I would recommend increasing its bullet capacity to 36 or 38 rounds per clip. ...Because when firing at long range, I've found I usually burst-12 to 20 rounds before I realize it; and then I feel obligated to reload
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 18:30:52 GMT -5
brilliant never thought of upping mag size. im gonna have to have another think lol
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Post by cptmacmillan on Dec 19, 2009 18:30:57 GMT -5
The gun takes 5 shots to kill at long range and firing it fullauto is going to take at least 15 to get 5 hits... giving it one of the slowest TTKs in the game at medium range+. HOW is it an absolute smoker? Even if you had magical aim (or norecoil hacks) it STILL has a meh ttk just because it takes 5 shots.
And at close range it's severely outclassed by SMGs. It's got SMG power/range while not having any of the stuff that actually makes SMGs good (Everything speed related). The only argument you can make for it is that it has rifle attachments... which are honestly more useful than the gun itself. If I'm going to use it for challenges I'm just going to get a masterkey on it and never use the fn2000 itself.
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Post by saddaminsane on Dec 19, 2009 21:32:14 GMT -5
they should do one of these things( not both, but atleast one of these suggestions) give it 30-25 damage. ORR
give it a more predictable recoil. Ive been using it, and bursting it is almost 99% needed for long range kills. Sometimes when i shoot people the sights stay almost perfectly still for a good 5-8 rounds, while other times the sights jumps up immedietly after the first shot ( that really pissed me off when i was behind someone and only landed one shot on him/her. I spent a pretty good amount of time to aim since i knew about the FN2k's notorious recoil too.)
i suggest making the first 3-4 rounds come out with low recoil, and then just give it massive recoil afterwards. This will definetly make the FN2k a more pro-friendly gun and intimidate the players who tend to spray.
the FN2k is currently the most skill requiring gun IMO, and if it were to stay nerfed, would simply stay a gun that's the equivelent of what the scorpion in COD4 was.(to impress others)
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Post by covel42 on Dec 19, 2009 21:32:22 GMT -5
finally got extended mags and i have to say makes me feel alot better. also enables the same amount of kills per mag as a normal assault rifle without extended mags lol ps can i get true bro now??
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rave
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Post by rave on Dec 19, 2009 21:45:42 GMT -5
I don't know about you guys but i think this is what an assault rifle should be like, if you want long range kills use a sniper. IMO there is NO reason at all the other assault rifles should have such little recoil.
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toysrme
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Post by toysrme on Dec 19, 2009 21:59:46 GMT -5
its a crappy gun in core, but i will 100% agree its the most situational/uniquie AR. with it's massive rpm you just CANT afford to up the damage much if any at all. make it SLIGHTLY more accurate, but not much more so! fact is, is that the ACR is already hyper IMBA with its insane accuracy. making the f2k much more accurate would only put it so far ahead of other weapons in raw damage output itd be godmode. with SOH+SP+SA, the FG42 in ffa was ultra god-mode in W@W. f2k would be an even faster firing gun with a big clip & no LMG reload & movement penalties LoL
i dont mind the inaccuracy so much, it's the maximum amount it can kick in degrees from centered that kills it. they need to reduce the max it can kick (not how much, or at what rate it kicks per shot) 25-30% and itd be a great weapon. still inaccurate, but not the moronicly low accuracy it has now at a simple medium-long range shot.
for what the gun does, its balanced. unfortuantely even tho it's marked as an AR you need to keep your encounters to below a medium-long range (i define medium-long as the range ar's do approx max damage)
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iKONIG
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Post by iKONIG on Dec 19, 2009 22:20:40 GMT -5
35-20 hands down, i reckon that's fair. If it stays the way it is, its basically a slower P90.
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das147369
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Post by das147369 on Dec 20, 2009 1:13:08 GMT -5
A straight damage up would make it a boring copy of the other dozen boring ARs so how about something unique: giving it a bonus for attachments, kinda like CoD4's gripped SAW, ACOG M40, P90/M21 sprint and the opposite of the AK-47 in both games. For example putting a suppressor on the FN F2K does not reduce max damage range and increases ROF/ reduces recoil (somewhat like IRL). Using the Super Duper Exclusive Red Dot speeds up ADS to SMG speed with no movement penalty, stuff like that. Sam Fisher does not use an AUG, SA80, FAMAS, reTAR d21. He must have a damn good reason for sticking with the F2000!
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