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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 10, 2013 11:33:36 GMT -5
Even then the fact that it appears on LAN is alone enough information to tell that something has been overlooked, and that absolutely doesn't happen in the older cods (though im not sure about mw3). "Ovenbakedmuffin wants a game where if you have shit connection, that's too bad for you. Good connections = awesome game. Bad connection = you like like a mofo. MW2 was more or less like this. Treyarch and IW are trying to go for a game where you don't notice the lag as much and it will at least feel natural. The goal is that normal players won't notice. What they found out with this most recent release (and what Alex told me) is that overall player sophistication has increased more than expected. The bar for "lag-free" is now much higher than it used to be." Drift0r Basically, from all the information I've got the way lag compensation was implemented (except for lag in split screen, which I imagine is either pure laziness or a mistake) is purely the way they intended it. They assumed we'd be too dumb to notice and wouldn't care as long as it felt "natural".
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Post by Aphoristic on Jun 10, 2013 13:19:45 GMT -5
To be quite honest, all of the CoD games are really stable. None of them have massive FPS drops, random crashes, etc. On PC, maybe. Go call in a Napalm Strike in BO on xbox and get back to me about that stable framerate. [/quote] Throw smoke grenades on any of them. It's all situational when there are framerate drops.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jun 10, 2013 13:47:49 GMT -5
i still dont know why target finder is even complained about ever. like any halfway decent player gets no advantage from it because its like youre looking through a cardboard tube. It's not like people are hard to spot in cod whatsoever. meanwhile MMS is a bloody wallhack but you dont see the average mouthbreather making use of that. EDIT: and who gives a shit about flak jacket anyway? C4 is the only explosive worth using in the whole game and it eats FJ users like cereal. So, two thoughts on this: In my experience, MMS isn't actually all of that useful in most gamemodes. If I suspect an enemy is hiding behind a wall, not moving, it simply doesn't make sense a lot of the time for me to stop and ADS from on the other side of the wall. In a lot of gamemodes, those two seconds where I am standing out in the open ADS at a wall put me at a pretty big risk of getting killed. If I think a guy is on the other side of a wall hiding in the corner, I'm probably better off just coming around the corner pre-firing or ready to fire. I've used MMS quite a bit and do not recall all that many instances where it was tremendously useful. That said, in a slower gamemode like S&D where you have more time to stop and ADS, I can see how it would be much more valuable. Also, there are a number of drawbacks to MMS in order to keep it balanced - it has limited range, cannot be used on LMGs, cannot be combined with FMJ, and has lower zoom than the RDS. I really don't think anyone is going on rampages in TDM because of it. I wouldn't call C4 the only explosive worth using in the whole game. Aside from Betties/Claymores and their obvious "cover your back" utility, I've found frag grenades work really well paired with Scavenger in TDM/KC. Here's the thing about sound in BO2 - you can't hear footsteps pretty much at all, but you can hear the characters' stupid yelling really well. When you throw a frag anywhere near an enemy, they'll shout "GRENADE, GET OUTTA HERE!" or something to that effect. At that point, you can rush in and shoot them while they're worried about avoiding the grenade (or damaged by it, if it explodes and they are not killed). Once you get used to thinking about throwing a grenade if you have one before your run over a Scav pack, you'd be surprised how useful it is. With C4, I found that it can be really useful in certain situations, but you have to be really careful about knowing whether you have one or not, you have to be careful not to get killed while throwing it, that if I wasn't using it constantly I wouldn't think to use it in appropriate situations, and that a lot of lives I would end up not using it at all. Looking at my stats, my kills/use for C4 are roughly 2.4x that of frags, but when you factor in all of the things I've mentioned, I think I'm actually getting a lot more value out of using frags.
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Post by aidsaidsaids on Jun 10, 2013 16:25:59 GMT -5
To be quite honest, all of the CoD games are really stable. None of them have massive FPS drops, random crashes, etc. On PC, maybe. Go call in a Napalm Strike in BO on xbox and get back to me about that stable framerate. Throw smoke grenades on any of them. It's all situational when there are framerate drops. We obviously don't mean the same thing by "stable framerate."
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Jun 10, 2013 16:52:30 GMT -5
Bouncing Betties are heavily dependent on how slow your opponents are at ducking. When I go for the no perk and no camo challenges together, I am surprised at the stupid amount of time I have to crouch to avoid lethal damage from the Betty. As a result people sometimes pair them with Shock Charges to try and get a damn kill with them. The audio cues can be handy but then you're better off spending a point on something else unless it helps you with something like sniper bloodthirsties.
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 10, 2013 23:10:01 GMT -5
Mousey. You, Drift0r, OBM, and Den are some of the brightest people we have in this community right now and I think at this point the fate of the entire series as a whole may be resting on you guys given that this is one of the few areas the developers will pay attention to.
Keep in mind hundreds, maybe thousands of people have sent the developers messages about this only to get ignored and blocked. We have done everything we could possibly do to get the developers' attention. I've searched for months here and there looking for anyway I can somehow contact these guys. These best I could do was indirectly through Drift0r and he is no longer answering my messages either so at this point this forum thread is the only place I know of where there's any chance a developer is going to see it and that's why I'm here.
Mousey, you have poured through the data yourself given that you are an intellectual and aren't content with just taking OBM's word on it. You've seen for yourself the extreme delays present in this game (350 m/s at 100 ping). These delays are far greater then the average human reaction time, therefore, in many cases a player moving out of cover has an opportunity to kill the opposing player before the brain even has a chance to process this information (250 m/s human reaction + 120 m/s for the average gun is still less than 350 m/s).
In MW2 OBM showed that a player has around 225 m/s of delay moving from cover at 100 m/s ping. This is less than the average human reaction time and actually allows time for the opposing player to attempt evasive maneuvers and counter if nothing else in that window of time.
Mousey as I've said you have tested this and seen this with your own eyes and I think if you are being intellectually honest with yourself you have to admit that this is broken at the current state. Most people who play this game and even most people over the internet do not know what this all means, but at this point even casual players, the ones that play this game while getting high with their friends chit-chatting about "yolo", "kush", and "swag" or whatever have realized for a very long time something is not kosher here about this game and even they are getting tired and fed up with it.
Previously the game developers have blamed the causes of this on people's in game connections and at one point even I believed this. In fact, the whole reason I got on this myself is because I was tired of all the bitching and moaning in game about lag compensation and was hell bent on proving that it WASN'T the game developer's fault. After seeing OBM's video though I couldn't ignore evidence that at least some of this was on Activision's end.
That's the thing Mousey. You know and I know they have the ability to fix this because they've done so in the past, but from the way the last three titles have worked and what they've said about it these gameplay changes are intentional.
This is a defective product. You might not want to say that directly because you don't want to be rude to the developers, but we owe it to the millions upon millions of people who play this game and don't have much of a voice or say-so about this to at least suggest this might be broken. I'm not saying that we all run down and punch the Activision CEO in the face (as some fan hilariously suggested Drift0r do to David Vonderhaar), but can we at least be for real about it and call it for what it is?
My point is, at least from what Drift0r is saying, the devs are going to read this and actually listen to you. The difference is me and like thousands of other fans, they sure in the hell aren't listening to us.
I hope you do the right thing and stick up for us.
Thank you.
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 10, 2013 23:14:32 GMT -5
Oops, 120 + 250 is 370, but you get what I mean.
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
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Post by asasa on Jun 10, 2013 23:34:38 GMT -5
Mouseys mine already, GTFO faggot.
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Post by kirbyderby on Jun 10, 2013 23:40:59 GMT -5
o rly
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 10, 2013 23:43:43 GMT -5
Mouseys mine already, GTFO faggot. Lol. I'm engaged to someone else. You can have her.
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asasa
True Bro
fuck
Posts: 4,255
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Post by asasa on Jun 11, 2013 0:38:04 GMT -5
Mouseys mine already, GTFO faggot. Lol. I'm engaged to someone else. You can have her. You arent fooling anybody. I'll be watching you carefully.
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Post by kirbyderby on Jun 11, 2013 1:12:06 GMT -5
no u
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 11, 2013 1:15:39 GMT -5
Alright, getting off topic.
Seriously, can Mousey, Den, anybody important on here just call them out on this already?
It's broken. There's no skirting around the issue here. It's been tested and proven.
It's there, it's excessive beyond the point where it's reasonable given that it far exceeds human reaction time, and most importantly it's entirely on their end and can easily be fixed.
Let's drop everything else and be intellectually honest about this. If they can kill you on a regular basis (every time they move out of cover or move around a corner) before your brain can reasonably process that information, send a signal to your finger, and respond and vice versa can you even consider that a skill based game anymore and if it's not a skill based game based on that principle alone is the whole thing not fundamentally broken?
Personally, I used to defend this game the same way a lot of people on the board are defending it ("it's not the devs fault, it's your connection", "it's just lag, all fps games lag, deal with it", etc), but eventually I had to be intellectually honest and admit based on data and evidence if they can kill you well before you can react and vice versa to where it becomes a big contest of simply who manages to strafe out of cover or run around a corner first then it's no longer skill based or at least only skill based in the sense of map awareness alone.
This is just some whiney complaint from a scrub getting pwned who can't handle it. The majority of the time I'm the guy on the good end of this flying around the corner with a shotgun, lightweight, and dexterity abusing this broken lag compensation to post 37/36-1 scores in a regular tdm, +50 killstreaks in kill confirmed. Am I proud of these scores? No. Because it's not really based on skill and I know it. All I did was made sure I went around the corner first and lag compensation took care of the rest, which wasn't fair, especially to all those people who unlike me had no idea what lag compensation even does more or less how to take advantage of it like that.
Needs to be fixed.
Can we admit this?
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 11, 2013 1:17:43 GMT -5
oops, I meant "this isn't just some whiney complaint from a scrub getting pwned who can't handle it."
sorry for not proofreading a bit more.
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mmacola
True Bro
the brazilian guy
Posts: 1,995
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Post by mmacola on Jun 11, 2013 1:47:50 GMT -5
no problem bro, it's good to see you're finally using some well thought arguments to back up your side of the debate.
And btw, we're not an official forum or anything. Any developer that comes here is just doing so by sheer curiosity, or perhaps a different feedback than some other places (the ones where everybody is a whiner).
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 11, 2013 2:51:45 GMT -5
no problem bro, it's good to see you're finally using some well thought arguments to back up your side of the debate. And btw, we're not an official forum or anything. Any developer that comes here is just doing so by sheer curiosity, or perhaps a different feedback than some other places (the ones where everybody is a whiner). I actually like the game design in Black Ops 2. I liked the game design in Modern Warfare 2 as well. There were a lot of gameplay decisions that I thought we poor in Modern Warfare 3, but that is another story. Overall I think the Call Of Duty series is fun. That's why I'm trying to do something about this because otherwise I just wouldn't care and pass over it without even thinking about it. Sometimes a high level of complaining indicates people are invested and care about the game otherwise you'd hear nothing and people would just move on. Of course, our complaining to them is annoying, but we are starting to feel like they don't care about our feedback so we have to get louder. The whole situation with Robert Bowling regarding deathstreaks and Vonderhaar and Conserva handing out blocks like candy to the mere mention of lag compensation on twitter is what's causing a bit of fan outrage out there. I know this isn't an "official" forum and this is a relatively old thread now, but I saw that Drift0r claimed the IW devs would surely read this and quite honestly I don't know any way for all these people who want to leave feedback to have anyway to reach anyone about it. Twitter suppose to be the way, but we keep getting blocked. Activision support doesn't care. I tried talking to Drift0r hoping maybe he'd talk to a developer and suggest some changes to lag compensation. Options are limited. People love to gripe and complain on all these YouTube "commentary" channels like 402thunder402, but when push comes to shove for them to go and actually do something about it most don't follow. Contrary to what they think the devs could give two shits about 402thunder's or Jnasty's channel or whoevers and they might as well be talking to thin air when they go on there. I actually tried to send some people here from OBM and Drift0r's channel today. A couple will probably post in this thread, but I don't expect many to actually do so. Just for reference somebody on Drift0r's channel today posted on some video talking about the "new" ghosts engine "I only care about improvements to the net-code everything else is a bonus. The multiplayer can look as good as it wants but it needs to run consistently and smoothly." ...and this comment got over 50 likes. I posted right underneath it: "Drift0r made a thread on Den Kirson's forum titled "Input Thread for IW's next CoD game and said the developers WILL look at that thread. Please tell the developers that we do not care what else is in this game unless these net code issues are fixed and addressed and we will not accept anything else. Thank you." How many of those 50 people who liked that comment or any of the hundreds of people leaving comments complaining about lag compensation are really going to come in here and leave a post that might actually have even a remote possibility of being read by the developers? (If you guessed they won't and will just keep bitching on his channel instead you are most likely correct).
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Post by bucket415 on Jun 11, 2013 12:15:13 GMT -5
This is one of the very few things I hope IW pays attention to in this train wreck of a thread. System stability and performance should be priority number one in a game like CoD (fast killtimes, slow movement). 100ms is huge. MW2 has no such issue, and is almost universally regarded as the best title in the series in this capacity. IW has gotten this right before. Clean networking, relatively fast ttks, and stable framerates are more important to a solid core CoD experience than anything to do with perks/weapon balance. No amount of good game design will make up for failure at the mechanical level. Couldn't of said it any better. This x 100
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pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
Posts: 647
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Post by pachiderm on Jun 11, 2013 13:18:51 GMT -5
Look, mdbq, I realize you're trying to "get the message out" about the character movement delay in Black Ops 2, and while I and likely many others appreciate the effort on your part I can't help but feel it is misplaced. Getting the message out is not going to unite the CoD community. We are not all going resolve to stop buying CoD games until they fix the issue. I understand this issue bothers you and you want to do something about it but the message is already out to the people who need to know. Informing random youtube viewers of this issue at this point is really just going to confuse and anger them, and directing them here merely presents them with the temptation to vent their anger in non-productive ways. There are enough angry people on here who don't know what they're talking about and they do nothing but get in the way of the people who do know what they're talking about, and for the record, that's not just Den, Driftor and Mousey.
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 11, 2013 17:01:29 GMT -5
Look, mdbq, I realize you're trying to "get the message out" about the character movement delay in Black Ops 2, and while I and likely many others appreciate the effort on your part I can't help but feel it is misplaced. Getting the message out is not going to unite the CoD community. We are not all going resolve to stop buying CoD games until they fix the issue. I understand this issue bothers you and you want to do something about it but the message is already out to the people who need to know. Informing random youtube viewers of this issue at this point is really just going to confuse and anger them, and directing them here merely presents them with the temptation to vent their anger in non-productive ways. There are enough angry people on here who don't know what they're talking about and they do nothing but get in the way of the people who do know what they're talking about, and for the record, that's not just Den, Driftor and Mousey. At this point I don't care if it "unites" the COD community or anything. The game developers have hidden away this problem and intentionally misinformed the community saying that it was entirely their fault these connection issues were taking place. I realize there are probably at least a couple hundred thousand people or so right now who understand what's going on, but imo with the millions of people who play this game that's not really enough. They have a right to know what they are buying and just because 100k people watched OBM's video and 75k people watched some other Youtubers video who covered and verified the same topic himself you know that's just a small fraction of the people out there. Even if just a couple of people say "screw it" and don't buy this game over it I personally would be satisfied saving just a couple people the 60 dollars. And even if they do buy it anyway at least they'll understand what they are dealing with and can no longer sit there and whine and complain about it like they expected anything different. The thing is I realize this is probably a lost cause, but I really have nothing to lose here. Nobody else does either, but they are too lazy to take a few seconds to contact somebody who might actually do something about it and over the long run I assure you we are going to pay the price for this. Wait until games like Halo, Battlefield, and other future fps titles start adopting the same lag compensation model as Call of Duty and this becomes the industry standard. You might not believe that could ever happen, but if sales numbers keep increasing every year at the rate that they do and that business model is clearly working better then their own how is anybody going to argue with that? Point is: does anybody stand by a freakin cause for the principle of it anymore or have we become so lazy that unless we are virtually assured success we won't take action over anything even if we and a bunch of other people feel strongly about it? I know I sound overly dramatic and militant here, but with all the bitching and complaining I know there's a pretty large group of people out there who do feel strongly about this. It's mind blowing that none of them can get off their tails for even a second to do something. That's the most frustrating part of all.
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 11, 2013 19:09:58 GMT -5
The thing is that people complain about everything. Vonderhaar gets death threats all over his twitter ffs.On top of that, a lot of people who complain about lag don't understand it, and use it as an excuse rather than actually presenting it as an issue. Unless you're a journalist of some sort, you can't do much besides vote with your dollar. You are correct about that. The first issue that was really problematic was finding a way for even me just to know what the heck was going on and it took a lot of research and bugging people just to get something happening with that. Thankfully a few guys stepped up and made videos about it. Even Tmartn made a video for his fans and it got about a quarter of a million views. OBM painstakingly tested all this crap. You guys made a couple threads attempting to explain all this and a bunch of people read those threads. That really did help a lot. At least if nothing else people understand what they are dealing with and can possibility adapt their playstyle to adjust for lag compensation rather then feel completely powerless over it. What people don't realize is that if you are going to make an argument for the devs to fix something you gotta show some facts, evidence, and preferably some kind of data to back up your argument. Like if a gun is overpowered state statistically how this gun trumps all other guns or is being used in a way the devs obviously didn't intend (for instance, the model 1887's being used to snipe people across the map in MW2). I'm trying to show at least why I think this 100 m/s differential is potentially game breaking. My argument is it goes over the threshold of human reaction time given a competent opponent or an opponent with a fast ttk weapon like the remington and that eliminates much of the skill based aspect of it. Instead of just going "ZOMG, LAG COMP IS BROKEN!" I'm stating the exact change I think should be implemented: save fewer game states and reduce interpolation by 100 m/s so performance will be comparable to MW2 even if the tradeoff is increased "choppiness" for people with poorer connections (who imo either need to stop stealing wifi from a block away or quit playing this game if they don't have the proper setup to play FPS). I think that's the difference here between what I'm talking about and some idiot on YouTube or Gamefaqs shouting out his opinion about this.
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pachiderm
True Bro
Chewing some serious leaves
Posts: 647
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Post by pachiderm on Jun 11, 2013 20:39:03 GMT -5
The thing is that people complain about everything. Vonderhaar gets death threats all over his twitter ffs.On top of that, a lot of people who complain about lag don't understand it, and use it as an excuse rather than actually presenting it as an issue. Unless you're a journalist of some sort, you can't do much besides vote with your dollar. You are correct about that. The first issue that was really problematic was finding a way for even me just to know what the heck was going on and it took a lot of research and bugging people just to get something happening with that. Thankfully a few guys stepped up and made videos about it. Even Tmartn made a video for his fans and it got about a quarter of a million views. OBM painstakingly tested all this crap. You guys made a couple threads attempting to explain all this and a bunch of people read those threads. That really did help a lot. At least if nothing else people understand what they are dealing with and can possibility adapt their playstyle to adjust for lag compensation rather then feel completely powerless over it. What people don't realize is that if you are going to make an argument for the devs to fix something you gotta show some facts, evidence, and preferably some kind of data to back up your argument. Like if a gun is overpowered state statistically how this gun trumps all other guns or is being used in a way the devs obviously didn't intend (for instance, the model 1887's being used to snipe people across the map in MW2). I'm trying to show at least why I think this 100 m/s differential is potentially game breaking. My argument is it goes over the threshold of human reaction time given a competent opponent or an opponent with a fast ttk weapon like the remington and that eliminates much of the skill based aspect of it. Instead of just going "ZOMG, LAG COMP IS BROKEN!" I'm stating the exact change I think should be implemented: save fewer game states and reduce interpolation by 100 m/s so performance will be comparable to MW2 even if the tradeoff is increased "choppiness" for people with poorer connections (who imo either need to stop stealing wifi from a block away or quit playing this game if they don't have the proper setup to play FPS). I think that's the difference here between what I'm talking about and some idiot on YouTube or Gamefaqs shouting out his opinion about this. Getting Treyarch to fix something is reliant upon their sense of responsibility as the developer. They stake their reputation on this game and its playability, and things only get fixed if they want to fix them. There have been other games in the past that have had elements in them that unintentionally harmed gameplay, and if this doesn't get patched it wouldn't be the first time a "broken" game never got fixed (remember MW2? I do). It's been 7 months since Black Ops 2's release and this issue hasn't been addressed, which makes me think that they either don't think it's a serious problem since the rest of the game is running fairly well or it was an intentional part of the game itself, or it would take more effort to fix than they are willing to invest in a game with a one year life cycle.
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Spectre
True Bro
Guardian.
Posts: 89
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Post by Spectre on Jun 13, 2013 2:39:30 GMT -5
Mdbq, While I am positively surprised by the efforts you're putting into this, the reason why in my eyes it won't get "fixed" is fairly simple: the game's life span is too short. We are talking about 6 or 7 months of "true" life, because after the official announcements about the next iteration everyone is like "forget about the pile of shit that [insert cod iteration here] was, [next game] will be the best one evah". And then the pre orders, the hype, the speculation... It's a winning business model, and they know that.
Also, they need the anger of the players. As long as everyone is shouting to the devs to fix their game, they're happy. Why? Because it's not important how you talk about it, but that you DO talk about it, so the word spreads out.
Call of duty before being a game, is a mass product, with all the consequences that this brings.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2013 3:55:09 GMT -5
You guys know what? All of this is irrelevant because
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 13, 2013 9:40:50 GMT -5
Mdbq, While I am positively surprised by the efforts you're putting into this, the reason why in my eyes it won't get "fixed" is fairly simple: the game's life span is too short. We are talking about 6 or 7 months of "true" life, because after the official announcements about the next iteration everyone is like "forget about the pile of shit that [insert cod iteration here] was, [next game] will be the best one evah". And then the pre orders, the hype, the speculation... It's a winning business model, and they know that. Also, they need the anger of the players. As long as everyone is shouting to the devs to fix their game, they're happy. Why? Because it's not important how you talk about it, but that you DO talk about it, so the word spreads out. Call of duty before being a game, is a mass product, with all the consequences that this brings. Me and OBM realize this and are attempting to counter by having data out as early as possible this time. We believe that in earlier releases fans were mislead into believing or at least were given enough doubt that it was their own connection problems that they accepted the problems even though they continued to whine about it. What was different in Black Ops 2 is OBM proved beyond a shadow of a doubt it was due to design flaws by going entirely offline in his tests and eliminating isps from the equation. This test; however, came out in the middle of the game's life cycle and whoever would of been convinced by it already bought the game long before the test came out. I'm not saying this necessarily will make a huge difference or anything. OBM is very realistic and told me that with how many people are still questioning him on how to achieve tiny improvements on their own end to negate as much of the lag as possible even though he proved the lion share of it cannot be helped this way he believes many people will still buy Ghosts anyway despite the evidence (assuming lag compensation is broken again of course). Personally I don't think COD is a "huge pile of shit". It's a good game, but eventually I had to be intellectually honest with myself and admit many of the skill based aspects are gone with the netcode in it's current state. I wanna get games I can be proud of and not have every good game I get under the specter that most of the opponents I shotty'd to the face essentially had no chance to counter it. Some of my friends think it's impressive, but I know the truth. There really wasn't much skill in it at all beyond spawn memorization and simple map awareness. That being said we think consumers have the right to know what's going on. They of course are going to make their own decisions. If you want my honest opinion though I think nothing we say will convince anyone. It's all about principle really. COD will probably fall on it's own as soon as enough game comes out with similar mass appeal. That's really how these things tend to go. I think another fps will come out on the next gen console that will completely out innovate Call of Duty and you'll see everyone playing that instead.
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Spectre
True Bro
Guardian.
Posts: 89
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Post by Spectre on Jun 13, 2013 9:56:42 GMT -5
Call of duty has lost its appeal as far as I'm concerned, for a series of factor that I'm not going to talk about. I don't think that cod is a pile of shit either, my previous message was supposed to show how things work every year, at least IMO. In my eyes it is not dying product, it has just become yet another mass product that lives on old mechanics and very good advertisement. I know it won't change, not because I am being pessimistic but because I have no faith in big companies. They're there to maximize incomes, quality of product is at the bottom of the list.
And remember, the first responsible of this is us consumer, buying every year what we do not consider good.
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Post by otisman666 on Jun 13, 2013 11:20:49 GMT -5
Mdbq:
As it has been mentioned already, the devs are certainly aware that the community thinks this is an issue. Problem is, they either don't know how to fix it (in the case of IW), or that this is the very best result that can be had. Lowering the delay causes another problem, which of course messes something else up, you know the whole chain of events thing.
I don't like it any more then you do.
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 13, 2013 16:23:22 GMT -5
Mdbq: As it has been mentioned already, the devs are certainly aware that the community thinks this is an issue. Problem is, they either don't know how to fix it (in the case of IW), or that this is the very best result that can be had. Lowering the delay causes another problem, which of course messes something else up, you know the whole chain of events thing. I don't like it any more then you do. That is a lie. OBM showed that in MW2 that game had 100 m/s less offline delay. The problem was "solved" long ago. There could of been poor matchmaking that led to other lag issues, but considering the game was made by IW there's really no excuse. I believe the design changes, which started around Blops 1 were entirely intentional. This is just speculation, but I think many things added were placed in to add as much randomness (non skill based) aspects as possible to the game in order to add a wide deviation to who does well and who doesn't in any particular game. I also think that the delays were put in place to suit another purpose, which was to make it extraordinarily easy for even the worst player to do well. I myself have virtually no aiming ability whatsoever. I go almost 100% hipfire even in gameplays I achieve high scores on. And the whole reason I do it is because like I said I use a bit of map awareness, time it to where I move around some corner before they do, and lag compensation takes care of the rest. I got 250-350 m/s of sight advantage to take action with a ohk weapon with an instant time to kill and virtually no sprint delay if I happen to be running. It doesn't work 100% of the time due to occasional hitmarkers and missed shots, but point is even the worst player in the game can sprint around a corner, hipfire spray at random, and if they get lucky enough drop even the most skilled player you can imagine. This is getting off topic a bit, but I'd like to note in league play they are much more sophisticated with how they exploit this. They won't even bother trying to bait people around corners and just set riot shields up on all the chokepoints and utilize lag compensation themselves to take advantage of the same mechanic during stance changes like this guy demonstrated about a minute in a half in this video: To say fixing that will somehow "ruin" the chain of events is just laughable.
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Post by mdbqnetwork on Jun 13, 2013 17:00:53 GMT -5
games out innovate cod all the time. CoD's strength isn't innovation in the slightest, it's activision's marketing team and how incredibly easy of a game it is to pick up. I mean come on, it's one of the primary example's people use as a rehashed series that isn't made by nintendo. In all fairness, most of the reason I've played COD so much in the past year is simply because of the lack of anything worth playing. The library of games has been extraordinarily thin recently. But you are right Mousey. I just think what is different this time is there's a ton of games in the works right now rather then over the last couple years where there haven't been many alternatives. And whenever a Skyrim or Boarderlands 2 does come out people play it for awhile until they'd explored all the content and go right back to Call of Duty afterwards. Many games have been delayed to sell on the next gen consoles and they will have a lot of marketing muscle behind them as well. The sad part is Call of Duty is the only game some people play. I use to fall in that boat for quite awhile, but I've got out of it. I think all these people who get so frustrated at Call of Duty need to learn there's other games out there that are fun to play. I think that will happen when PS4 and Xbox: One are released. There's a lot of games I think people could get hyped about.
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Usagi
True Bro
Grin and Barrett
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Usagi on Jun 13, 2013 23:59:12 GMT -5
the fan base at this stage is very well educated about lag compensation, what it is, and what it does. I'm a bit late to the party but HA. HA HA HA.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2013 3:52:56 GMT -5
I think he actually meant to say that the fan base is very well educated with our moms. A game can't go by without a handful of mature, gracious young men recounting a fond get-together with them, no?
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