Destiny: Iron Banner 2.0

[wittyscorpion]

From this week's weekly update: www.bungie.net/7_Bungie-Weekly-Update---10242014/en/News/News?aid=12318

The next time the Iron lord returns, things are going to be quite different from the first time: power difference will actually be significant (< lvl20 players will be severely handicapped), losing can still earn you reps, better bounties, better loot, etc.

---

Power Matters (More!)

The goal for Level Advantages in PVP had been to create relatively small advantages that would suffice only to tilt the balance between players of equal skill towards the player of greater achievement, expressed in terms of his gear. But we now believe we have been too conservative, and that small tilts failed to meet anyone’s expectations.

In the next Iron Banner, we will debut a much more dramatic difference between players of wide variation in Level. We will detail the changes in an article of its own to come as soon as we settle on some of the numbers.

Because of this, the next Iron Banner will also require a Fireteam leader to be Level 20 to enter. While lower Level players may join in with their Level 20+ chaperone, they will find it very challenging.

---

Quitting

The goal of Iron Banner was to create a PVP playlist where players would push their game and their equipment harder than ever. To do so, the emphasis is on winning. But that meant players who found themselves losing would be inclined to leave.

The Iron Lords respect perseverance and tenacity. In the next Iron Banner, players will receive a Medallion of Iron on a loss. Upon their next win, each Medallion they carry will convert into a reputation gain almost equal to a win.

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Armor and Weapons

The goal for Iron Banner gear was to provide Armor powerful enough to interest most players after a few weeks of gearing up, and aesthetically appealing to all players. But for very advanced characters, wearing Exotics and Raid gear, the equipment was not powerful enough to consider.

In the next Iron Banner, new exclusive reward Armor will be bumped to Level 30, but will still only be available in two slots. For advanced players, this will make them viable functional or visual sidegrades.

Iron Banner Weapons were already viable sidegrades for all but the most advanced players, but we would like to expand the options available. In the next Iron Banner, the weapon types available will go from two to four, divided between drops on match victory, and purchase from Lord Saladin in the Tower.

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Bounties

The goal of Bounties in the Iron Banner is to push players to prove themselves in new ways, while also ensuring that straight-up combat was always valuable to move you towards a higher rank. But some of the Bounties required too much, and were mutually exclusive in a way that made this worse.

In the next Iron Banner, several of these Bounties have been tuned down quite a bit, and overall the value of Bounties has been bumped up. Also, they have been moved onto Lord Saladin, who was getting a little lonely back there with only his gong and dinosaur drawings.

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New Feature: Reforging

Timur's Lash (the Hand Cannon available on match victory) was exciting to us because it was able to re-roll its upgrades on each drop, resulting in some unique and excellent configurations. But due to other issues, this was inaccessible to most players.

In the next Iron Banner, Lord Saladin will offer players the option of Reforging any Iron Banner weapon (including those from the last event.) This will re-roll all of the upgrades, but will also reset any progression. The cost for each Reforge will be a small number of Motes of Light, so set some aside next time Xur arrives in the Tower.

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New Feature: Tempered

With Iron Banner lasting one week, some players with working schedules found themselves unable to even consider reaching a higher rank.

In the next Iron Banner, Lord Saladin will offer a 12-hour buff called Tempered, which will boost Iron Banner reputation gains. As the week goes forward, this boost will be increasingly potent, to help players starting later in the week to catch up. In Iron Banners after the next, we expect that we will further tune these bonuses by increasing their potency, but limiting their effect to lower Ranks.

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Iron Banner Reputation Reset

If your eyes just snapped open, relax: Iron Banner reputation isn't resetting. The goal of Iron Banner events is to bring everyone together to play PVP for a week, and our plan had been to reset reputation each event. But this was poorly communicated, and (for reasons listed above) reaching higher ranks took longer than intended.

In the next Iron Banner, you will still have the Rank achieved in the last. But we still want players to come together for at least a few nights of team PVP, including veterans of the last event, so the Iron Banner ranks have been increased to 5. Some of the adjustments above will help players ascend more quickly through these and existing ranks.

In future Iron Banners, we will change over from Reputation to an Event Standing model where ranks are reset, but only after we better tune the effort required to reach the higher ranks.

---

Disclaimer of Ultimate Dodge

Some of the above changes are still undergoing internal testing, and we may encounter critical issues that force us to postpone a change. We’ll keep you posted.

Is it going to be fun? We will have to see...

[wings]

So people are going to lobby shop in the hope for lower level players to stomp on now?

[-3055-]

How do you lobby shop in destiny? It just says "searching for players: ?/12" unless you mean waiting until you're actually in a match, check the enemy team, then leave?

[mannon]

I don't see much point in lobby shopping if you get almost as much reward for a loss. Might as well play the game out and also earn the XP and complete bounties and then when you do get a win all your coins will cash out.

[wittyscorpion]

Don't forget a sucky performance may yield better loot. Don't intentionally tank the game because I don't think it can work towards better odds, but if you tried hard and still got your ass kicked, you may get good consolation prize.

[hebbnh]

They sound like some good changes, especially adjusting the max light on the iron banner gear to 30 -- too bad it also sounds like we may not even be seeing it this year. Also sounded like Queen's Wrath was going to be shelved even longer than that. Hopefully whatever they have planned for the interim is actually worthwhile -- I won't be holding my breath though after the last two flops.

Ridiculous that they didn't even mention the Atheon teleports and other raid changes that were supposed to drop this week but never did, or give any kind of update on the adjustments for underperforming exotic weapons. I mean, yeah, it's great that they're telling us about changes to events two months from now, but some news on stuff they told us was already supposed to have happened by now might be a little more useful, maybe. Is that really too much to ask? Bungie seemingly just does not get it. I'm still enjoying this game immensely, but it's a shame knowing how much better it could be and seeing Bungie fail to deliver over and over again.

[TheHawkNY]

Oct 25, 2014 21:45:41 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

They sound like some good changes, especially adjusting the max light on the iron banner gear to 30 -- too bad it also sounds like we may not even be seeing it this year. Also sounded like Queen's Wrath was going to be shelved even longer than that. Hopefully whatever they have planned for the interim is actually worthwhile -- I won't be holding my breath though after the last two flops.

Ridiculous that they didn't even mention the Atheon teleports and other raid changes that were supposed to drop this week but never did, or give any kind of update on the adjustments for underperforming exotic weapons. I mean, yeah, it's great that they're telling us about changes to events two months from now, but some news on stuff they told us was already supposed to have happened by now might be a little more useful, maybe. Is that really too much to ask? Bungie seemingly just does not get it. I'm still enjoying this game immensely, but it's a shame knowing how much better it could be and seeing Bungie fail to deliver over and over again.

I work in marketing, and I have to deal a lot with my company's developers. It's hard to work with developers and set schedules, because it's hard for them to estimate how long things will take. Then you have to factor in that there are millions of active users, all of whom are looking to exploit the system, and once an exploit is discovered by a single person, it is immediately used by the entire userbase. So I'm sure that they have things kicked back in the QA process as well. It's not that easy managing communications with passionate customers when you're relying on estimates from people you have no control over.

[hebbnh]

Yeah that's understandable, kind of a lose-lose either way for them now. Set a timeline and don't meet it = backlash for failure or "lying". Don't set a timeline at all = backlash for being too vague and non-committal. The best idea for Bungie now is probably to set a longer timeline that they know they can meet, then overperform that timeframe, say by dropping Iron Banner 2.0 on Thanksgiving. Nobody expects that now, and everyone would be happy about it. Well, except the people who wouldn't be able to play because it's Thanksgiving. Maybe it's lose-lose-lose for Bungie no matter what!

[wittyscorpion]

Their weekly update is to share their committed plans for what are about to happen next. Exactly when is at developer and (more so) QA's hands. I would rather have them take their time and do it right, than another instance of Vex Myth incident.

As a software developer, I pledge to all fans to be patient . Many things can go wrong, give us (collectively, in general for anything requires software) the time to get it done right.

[TheHawkNY]

Oct 27, 2014 15:51:49 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

Yeah that's understandable, kind of a lose-lose either way for them now. Set a timeline and don't meet it = backlash for failure or "lying". Don't set a timeline at all = backlash for being too vague and non-committal. The best idea for Bungie now is probably to set a longer timeline that they know they can meet, then overperform that timeframe, say by dropping Iron Banner 2.0 on Thanksgiving. Nobody expects that now, and everyone would be happy about it. Well, except the people who wouldn't be able to play because it's Thanksgiving. Maybe it's lose-lose-lose for Bungie no matter what!

I'd assume they're not announcing any future events because of the large number of AAA releases coming over the next few weeks, what happens with other titles and Destiny could determine the timing or content of the next event.

[wittyscorpion]

OK, this thing is coming next week (towards the latter part of the week). Like it or not, many players will be playing it, for light-30 gears as well as weapons.

planetdestiny.com has detailed info, including:

1) Overview: planetdestiny.com/destiny-iron-banner-guide/

2) Gears and bounties: planetdestiny.com/new-iron-banner-gear-bounties/

3) Keep in mind that Iron Banners can be reforged with Mote of Light

[wittyscorpion]

For bros who plan to play this, get ready:

1) Get your class to higher levels, at least 28+, because level and armor defense matters;
2) Get your PvP weapons (Suros Regime, The Final Word, Invective, etc) fully upgraded, because weapon attack matters;
3) Polish (i.e. fully upgrade) those PvP exotic armors that in your vault gathering dust. E.g.: Voidfang Vestments;

The mot important offering of this event is the 30-light armor pieces. Bungie is using this to push 28+ players into 30 to get ready for Expansion Pack 1.

On XONE side: we should try to party up. The games can be a lot more fun that way.

I am jumping into Crucible water with my both feet in today. Time to complete the 3 bounties while getting some experience.

[wittyscorpion]

Today I am finally able to spend some quality time on Crucible. have been trying to get into it since a month ago, but there were just too many things to do on the PvE side. Today I got to the end of it (relatively speaking), and AW's lack of the most recent patch and Halo's sucky matchmaking also make the decision of which PvP to play easier

Unlike most of the bros here, I really like the Crucible experience (only played Patrol). To me it serves as a perfect middle ground between Halo and AW, and one I suck the least

BTW: the crucible part of "Thorn" bounty is a tough one. 500 points from: Void kill = +5 points, and death = -2 points. it's brutally punishing on deaths. After a few games of getting my points reset to 0 even with pretty positive KD spread, I have little choice but to camp, with heavy ammo as my priority targets. Not a big fan of such play style, but I really like how Thorn looks so I'll have to suck it up.

Bros on the XONE side: if you enjoy Crucible and want to party up, let me know.

[tooros]

Nov 17, 2014 3:40:32 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

BTW: the crucible part of "Thorn" bounty is a tough one. 500 points from: Void kill = +5 points, and death = -2 points. it's brutally punishing on deaths. After a few games of getting my points reset to 0 even with pretty positive KD spread, I have little choice but to camp, with heavy ammo as my priority targets. Not a big fan of such play style, but I really like how Thorn looks so I'll have to suck it up.

If you're lucky enough to have Atheon's Epilogue it's pretty easy.

The last fight is the tough part.

[iw5000]

i am looking at the menu of the planets.... i do not see any iron banner 2

?

[iw5000]

i just went in and played five games before work. Haven't played Crucible in five or six weeks. Thought i would give it another try, maybe things have changed?

We agree on most things witty, but on this.....i don't. Crucible still sucks. And i say that as someone who plays it ok. I even was top scorer in a few of the games this morning. But it's just terrible. Bad ideas. Slushy hit mechanics. All the things i said before (for example, the abundance of noob'ish dead man hand 'supers' to appease to people who suck). And this mode also suffers from the same issues CoD does. Challenges do not mix with competitive gameplay. Why have team based play? Why? I quit out (within a min) at least three games with this morning. There is a sniper challenge going on. Every control match is nothing but a-holes standing in corners on long sightlines trying to get 20 kills. It's dumb.

People who code FPS'ers, should have no say so in how PvP is made. They had the kickball bounced off their head to many times growing up. Their idiots. People who code/make these games, do not understand what competition is. Why bother having a control mode, if half the lobby is off doing some other thing like sniper challenges? Idiocy.

I should have never bothered to try again this morning. Destiny MP makes CoDAW look like the best game designed ever.

[hebbnh]

Nov 17, 2014 7:07:00 GMT -5 iw5000 said:

i am looking at the menu of the planets.... i do not see any iron banner 2

?

It's not out yet.  Supposed to be coming by the end of this week according to Bungie's weekly update from 11/13.

[hebbnh]

I played about a dozen Crucible matches this weekend to finish off the bounty for Bad Juju. First time I tried it in close to a month I guess -- I didn't think it was too bad and it was actually a nice change of pace from material/chest/bounty grinding. I think it was about half Control and half Clash (aka TDM). I didn't encounter any snipers tactical loitering while going for headshots in Control though so that probably helped. The most frustrating thing I ran into was getting Titan smashed right after I popped my Bladedancer super twice in row. That probably cost me 5 or 6 easy kills, but oh well.

wittyscorpion and iw5000, we should try to party up for some Iron Banner later this week since it sounds like getting a raiding group together might be tough. Maybe having a partied up group that is actually interested in PTO/winning would help?

[malgato]

Nov 17, 2014 4:27:06 GMT -5 tooros said:

Nov 17, 2014 3:40:32 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

BTW: the crucible part of "Thorn" bounty is a tough one. 500 points from: Void kill = +5 points, and death = -2 points. it's brutally punishing on deaths. After a few games of getting my points reset to 0 even with pretty positive KD spread, I have little choice but to camp, with heavy ammo as my priority targets. Not a big fan of such play style, but I really like how Thorn looks so I'll have to suck it up.

If you're lucky enough to have Atheon's Epilogue it's pretty easy.

The last fight is the tough part.

The last fight is pretty easy if you just stay in the outer room where the Shrieker spawns.

[wittyscorpion]

Regarding last fight of thorn:

does staying in shrieker room work? Isn't the goal to kill all mobs to get the special boss to spawn?

[iw5000]

It is a change of pace, but at least for me...one that inevitably ends in frustration.

The sniping. There is a crucible bounty this morning for "Get 20 headshots with a sniper". So that probably explains what I saw. Very annoying when playing solo. Especially that Mars map (Blind Watch) that is unbalanced. Starting on the A side. I got this map three straight games. Just one player after another, lining up on the big cooler tanks sniping out of the 1 flag, no care at all about flipping the spawns. And one player is fucked in Destiny trying to cap. You just get super'ed over and over. After losing the first time...and then getting the same map two more times, I just quit both times immediately.

[psychlon]

Don't understand the difficulty at having different maps if you play consecutive games. For PvE and PvP.

[malgato]

Nov 17, 2014 10:26:32 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Regarding last fight of thorn:

does staying in shrieker room work? Isn't the goal to kill all mobs to get the special boss to spawn?

Yes, but they will eventually all funnel to the Shrieker room. You may have to poke your head out occasionally to encourage them. This is the method I used to finish the quest.

[hebbnh]

Nov 17, 2014 10:27:37 GMT -5 iw5000 said:

It is a change of pace, but at least for me...one that inevitably ends in frustration.

The sniping. There is a crucible bounty this morning for "Get 20 headshots with a sniper". So that probably explains what I saw. Very annoying when playing solo. Especially that Mars map (Blind Watch) that is unbalanced. Starting on the A side. I got this map three straight games. Just one player after another, lining up on the big cooler tanks sniping out of the 1 flag, no care at all about flipping the spawns. And one player is Foxtroted in Destiny trying to cap. You just get super'ed over and over. After losing the first time...and then getting the same map two more times, I just quit both times immediately.

Yup, Blind Watch is terrible.  If you start on the A side, you lose unless you're able to cap B at the start and eventually get C to flip the spawns.  A isn't even worth capping at the beginning of the game, just skip it and go directly to B.  Unfortunately most of the player base hasn't figured that out yet.  Add in the guys sitting around A trying to snipe, and yeah, GG;QQ -- might as well just quit and find another match because you're wasting your time.  Join us for Iron Banner -- I promise we won't snipe the whole time!  We might get our asses kicked anyway, but at least we'll be trying!

[malgato]

I'm down for some Iron Banner. Maybe I can actually get boots to finally hit level 30....

I have fully upgraded Suros Regime, Plan C, some purple shotgun, Icebreaker, and several rockets and MGs. Adequate weapon selection. But I'll be playing at level 29 (warlock) and 28 (titan).

[wittyscorpion]

Regarding Crucible in general:

First of all, disclaimers: a) I am by no means thinking it is superior than other MP choices, namely Titanfall, AW, and Halo; and b) At the moment I enjoy all 4 experiences, having fun playing all of them;

That said, my personal preference at the moment is: Titanfall (which I don't play much any more sadly) > Halo > Destiny ~= AW.

Now, a few comments to respond to points made in this thread, with a bit focus on Destiny vs. AW:

1) Yes, BS deaths from Super are unpleasant. The main issue here is not because Supers are cheap (Titan drop is pretty easy to get also), but because they are OSKs and break momentum in an unnatural manner. Both TF and AW have a much better design in this regard. In TF: Titans counter each other and are very exciting fights themselves, I can even go so far as saying "funner" than Pilot vs. Pilot; In AW: strong scorestreaks are hard to come by especially with camping significantly reduced, and easy to get to low-end scorestreaks and/or support streaks are not as powerful. Best of all, everything can be countered;

My current method of mitigation: a) don't stand close to my teammates; b) when capping flags, be mindful of red blobs on my radar and get out of the way ahead of the time; and c) combine a) and b): let my teammates be the first line defense facing the read blobs and I stay behind to reap the rewards ;

2) Sniping is not a problem for me. a) Because I like to be a sniper myself, so I learn the sniping sight lines fairly quickly and know how to avoid the dumb snipers, who like to sit somewhere and ADS a lane, with little to no situational awareness of people flanking them; and b) headshot OSK is not noob friendly, and I can easily run away with a body shot wound;

3) Teammates not playing objective. Well, IMHO it is more a problem of playing with randoms. AW suffers the same problem, and I can argue more severely than Destiny, due to a) doing so can be rewarding for getting the more powerful scorestreaks, and b) Destiny's mini map design makes "ambushing" a lot harder.

Both can be much "funner" when partying with friends.

4) What it boils down to is personal preference: a) fast TTKs vs. slow TTKs, and b) minimap design. As I said many times before, for bros who don't like slower TTKs, Destiny is not appealing.

For me personally, slower TTK makes the kills much more exhilarating: sniper bullets connecting to heads, primary weapon strafing fights, fusion rifle right in enemy's face, shotgun blast followed by quick melee, fighting over heavy ammo then dominating in fire fights, are all quite satisfying to me. The main reason is probably because I feel like I "earned" them, whether that's true or just an illusion.

AW on the other hand, is mainly a contest of who sees who first, situational awareness > gun fight skills. I enjoy AW more than the other installments because of the added dimension of power movements, and I have a much higher percentage of "satisfying" gun fight wins. However, it is still a low percentage. I also don't like the feeling of having to wonder whether I got killed because I got out played, or because I got beaten due to lags;

5) PvP vs. PvE. With all the stuff I got from PvE: fully mastered subclasses, exotic armors, legendary and exotic weapons, etc, I want to use them against other guardians. It is much more satisfying than killing AIs for sure.

In a way, I like Destiny's inherent "unbalanced" design. I am now level 28+ with cool weapons and useful armors, I want to put them into good use

On the PvE side, I am mainly doing the following:

a) Chase public events and farm planet materials in patrol;
b) Play daily;
c) Play weekly and Nightfall;
d) Play VoG;

a) is plainly boring. I am going out of my way to make it more fun (yesterday's edition: nothing but "The Last Word" + The Comedian Shotgun), but it is still not great. I wouldn't have played them if not for the rewards;

b) and c) are at least interesting enough at their own, even without the rewards, but are getting tiring as well;

d) is great fun, but unfortunately we can only manage to do it once per week.

In comparison, PvP is fun, more so than a), b) and c).

6) One word: Hunters

Hunters are UP in PvE, what save them are PvP, because they are the best. Consistent multi-kill supers (because you can stretch the usage over a relatively extended period of time), jump moves more suited for PvP gunfights (glide & jetpack = sitting duck in the air to shoot), and overall great PvP oriented talents make them a force to be reckoned with. As a fan of Hunter's "coolness", Crucible is my stage...

[wings]

Nov 17, 2014 10:27:37 GMT -5 iw5000 said:

It is a change of pace, but at least for me...one that inevitably ends in frustration.

The sniping. There is a crucible bounty this morning for "Get 20 headshots with a sniper". So that probably explains what I saw. Very annoying when playing solo. Especially that Mars map (Blind Watch) that is unbalanced. Starting on the A side. I got this map three straight games. Just one player after another, lining up on the big cooler tanks sniping out of the 1 flag, no care at all about flipping the spawns. And one player is Foxtroted in Destiny trying to cap. You just get super'ed over and over. After losing the first time...and then getting the same map two more times, I just quit both times immediately.

You're a COD player so people going for specific challenges shouldn't be new to you. Party up or play Rumble if it bothers you that much. I think Bungie could have made the challenge just kills with a sniper rifle given the way the body multipliers are. I don't see how Supers appeal to 'lower skilled' players wither, since decent players will be more powerful with them anyway. I mean if you were that bothered by the skill element you'd be playing third person shooters anyway. At least that is their reputation from what I gather and is probably why third person shooters are not as successful as their first person counterparts, since few people want a difficult game to master.

[iw5000]

'bothers me that much'?

Did you even read my posts? It doesn't seem like it. If you had, you would have seen I had resolved this issue by not playing Crucible for close to five to six weeks now (before trying it again this morning). So obviously it's not 'bothering' me that much. This morning I simply jumped in for a few games to see if anything had changed. Nothing did.

Regarding supers. We'll have to agree to disagree. I find nothing skillful about hitting a button that enables me to wipe out an entire room, without really aiming. Sure, a good player is probably better with it, but it's splitting hairs. The damage is the same. Did people ever really discuss how skillful players were with Dead Man's hand? No. It was a cheap death. Same here with destiny.

[mannon]

Supers=Killstreaks

Not all killstreaks... but many give you a handful or more of cheap, no skill kills. Supers are a bit easier to get than those skillstreaks since you don't lose your progress upon death and you gain progress for time alone as well just like Titans. Still the Supers are generally worth 5 or 6 kills at best, which is nothing compared to a Nuke or Chopper Gunner from MW2. I just don't see them as that big a deal considering all the other no skill stuff we've seen in other games.

I'm not saying Crucible is the best thing since sliced bread. It's clearly a side activity to the main PvE game and not meant to carry the entire game. Sometimes I like Crucible, and sometimes I don't. But I also don't think it has to be the same kind of multiplayer as games like Halo or CoD. It can just be it's own thing.

[iw5000]

Nov 17, 2014 12:30:36 GMT -5 mannon said:

Supers=Killstreaks

Not all killstreaks... but many give you a handful or more of cheap, no skill kills. Supers are a bit easier to get than those skillstreaks since you don't lose your progress upon death and you gain progress for time alone as well just like Titans. Still the Supers are generally worth 5 or 6 kills at best, which is nothing compared to a Nuke or Chopper Gunner from MW2. I just don't see them as that big a deal considering all the other no skill stuff we've seen in other games.

A 'bit easier'? Disagree. A CoD CG streak requires getting 6, 7, 8+ kills in a row, as well as playing for yourself (screw over team play). That's some effort there. A bad player will not get a CG. Ever. Not going to happen. But a bad player is almost guaranteed two supers in every crucible match. An opportunity to hit just a button and wipe out everyone in a room. So the two aren't the same.

A better analogy would be to use CoD Deathstreaks like DeadMan's Hand with Destiny's supers. That's a better fit.

I'm not saying Crucible is the best thing since sliced bread. It's clearly a side activity to the main PvE game and not meant to carry the entire game. Sometimes I like Crucible, and sometimes I don't. But I also don't think it has to be the same kind of multiplayer as games like Halo or CoD. It can just be it's own thing.

I'm not trying to say destiny has to be like Halo or CoD. I do 'get it' that it is it's own game. But with that, I find the whole super process dumb. It fits well in the PvE part, but doesn't fit well in PvP. Just my opinion.