Destiny: Iron Banner 2.0

[wittyscorpion]

Nov 18, 2014 16:12:28 GMT -5 iw5000 said:

One can only get level 30 gloves and boots? Are we 100% sure?


That kind of sucks for me, thinking on this. I have two sets of Raid gloves and Raid boots already (already leveled) I suppose I could play to get items for my Warlock #3, but that Warlock just needs boots. It already has a max Exotic gloves. So it would seem that all the Iron Banner can do for me is get this ONE piece of gear I need. So playing thirty to forty IB Crucible games to get one piece of gear? Some boots? I don't know. That's going to be a nine to ten hour grind/effort. I am pretty sure I could do three VoG Oracle checkpoints next week at 1/3 of the time.

Tough call for me.

Yes, only boots and gloves.

If you don't enjoy Crucible, then probably don't bother. I can see for you AW can be a lot more fun to spend PvP play time.

That said, Iron Banner is kinda cost effective for you because all you need to do is to reach rank 3 to buy the boots. I on the other hand have to get to rank 4 to get the gloves (and I already screwed up on using the buffs ). I am having fun though, don't have a good shotgun and fusion rifle is hit and miss, so I spend most my time with Sniper Rifle (yes, I am one of those Sniping players that you would hate the most ). Time & Patience is so great: radar on when ADS, and ADS -> invisible, good times

[wittyscorpion]

For me personally, best news today!

"Temperred" is an Iron Banner investment buff. You can purchase accelerated reputation gains for one Mote of Light, every twelve hours.

Whew, that's a relief. So buying one last night was not a total disaster, I can buy more whenever I want to play IB for extended period of time.

So this week instead of piling up MoL to 23 for exotic engram gamble, I will spend them here instead...

[iw5000]

I can still help out if you need people.

[wittyscorpion]

Nov 18, 2014 16:53:06 GMT -5 iw5000 said:

I can still help out if you need people.

As I mentioned in the LFG thread: I am grinding IB on Sunday. You are very welcome to join me. Partying up >> soloing

I am going to buy a buff, and play IB throughout the day. Plan to get all the way to rank 5 if I can, for gloves and all the cool cosmetic stuff (emblems, shaders, cloaks) for my hunter. He may be UP for VoG, but that shouldn't stop him from looking the coolest

I may do it on Saturday as well, not sure yet.

[mannon]

What's needed to do okay solo in IB? Would a level 28 with no exotic weapons and only two legendary ones (hand cannon & fusion rifle) have a chance? Because if I'm completely outmatched I think I'll just skip it.

[hebbnh]

My plan is to do the 3 VoG hard oracle to gatekeeper runs Thursday and see what I get from that. If I don't get what I need (Hunter boots, Warlock gauntlets, Titan gauntlets), I may just spend the rest of the week Iron Bannering. Hunter boots would get me to 30 so that's priority #1 for sure. Warlock gauntlets would get me to 29. Titan gauntlets wouldn't even help my level right now, but would allow me to run an exotic helmet -- which I don't have yet -- to hit 30. So close, yet so far away!

[wittyscorpion]

Nov 18, 2014 17:13:07 GMT -5 mannon said:

What's needed to do okay solo in IB? Would a level 28 with no exotic weapons and only two legendary ones (hand cannon & fusion rifle) have a chance? Because if I'm completely outmatched I think I'll just skip it.

Level 28 should be OK. No exotic should be OK too, as long as your legendary are fully upgraded to 300 attacks. Legendary Fusion Rifle should be fine as well. You don't really need a legendary heavy, a rare one can be competitive.

The main problem you might have is hand cannon primary. If I remember correctly, you have "The Devil You Know", which would be UP against Auto Rifles. Even The Last Word, exotic hand cannon I saw a lot of usage against me in the past a few days, are UP against my legendary AutoR (The Grim Citizen III).

If you can earn enough marks to buy Shadow Price and fully upgrade it, I think you'll do fine. Otherwise, I suggest that you test the water with ~5 games and see how thing go before buying the buff.

[wittyscorpion]

Nov 18, 2014 17:20:07 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

My plan is to do the 3 VoG hard oracle to gatekeeper runs Thursday and see what I get from that. If I don't get what I need (Hunter boots, Warlock gauntlets, Titan gauntlets), I may just spend the rest of the week Iron Bannering. Hunter boots would get me to 30 so that's priority #1 for sure. Warlock gauntlets would get me to 29. Titan gauntlets wouldn't even help my level right now, but would allow me to run an exotic helmet -- which I don't have yet -- to hit 30. So close, yet so far away!

Sounds like you should be playing IB with me unless you get hunter boots on Thursday raids . Hunter boots from IB is almost a sure thing, only need to reach Rank 3 and you are done. There is no reason to let this golden opportunity go, the only time that 30-light raid gear can be earned with 100% certainty, no RNG involved.

[wings]

You mean I have a use for my 198 Motes of Light now?

[wittyscorpion]

Nov 18, 2014 18:08:18 GMT -5 wings said:

You mean I have a use for my 198 Motes of Light now?

Holy crap, you have a lot of MoL . Looks like you are not a big fan of exotic armor pieces (from Xur) or flashy class items (from the Speaker).

[iw5000]

Nov 18, 2014 17:13:07 GMT -5 mannon said:

What's needed to do okay solo in IB? Would a level 28 with no exotic weapons and only two legendary ones (hand cannon & fusion rifle) have a chance? Because if I'm completely outmatched I think I'll just skip it.

I'm playing right now with my lv 30. I lost my first six games. 0-6. Not because i'm not doing well. I have been positive in five of them, and averaging around 15 to 18 kills a game. Been in the top half every game.

The problem is IB is filled to the brim with idiots who have no business being there, and are just taking up space trying to get free shit. People who suck. Every game i have seen at least two guys on my team under 5 kills and not even hitting 1,000 pts. WTF. And if you are playing solo, those ass-sucking losers keep getting dumped on my team. Not been a fun ride so far.

[wittyscorpion]

One thing you need to make sure: after losing 2 games in a row, check to see if the winning team is a full party, back out if yes.

Solo against party would be mostly a waste of time because winning is too difficult. If nothing else, a full team know to secure and grab heavy all at the same time, and that's tremendous advantage.

[iw5000]

I can say 100% with confidence i have had the most caps on my squads ..every....single....game i have played. I would guess that the average cap amount by my teammates all night is around 2.5 flags a game. I'm probably hitting around eight. A bit ridiculous.

And i've been quitting games within the first minute or so, if i get to the B flag and see i am the only one there. I don't even bother. Back out. Again with the idiots theme. Every IB game is a control game, and i really don't think people understand how the scoring goes. Way to many people just sitting on one flag sniping. Or just waiting. With all the garbage super kills in this game, you can't win control while down 2 to 1 in flags...you just aren't going to outkill the other team 2 to 1. Not with the all garbage kills in this game.

(sigh)

Enough for tonight. I just have had to stop playing. The Destiny servers aren't working. I can't even get in a game.

I guess i can say this. The one positive is that i finished a lot of bounties in the IB tonight. I finished six regular Crucible bounties, and got around four or five IB bounties down too.

[n1gh7]

Reddit figured out how long it takes to reach rank 5.

www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2mosty/rank_from_05_in_iron_banner_a_look_at_some_numbers/

The tldr is:

"This now equals 8 hours if you win all games and just under 10 hours if you never lose more than 5 in a row."

Without the tempering buff.

[GodMars]

Oh, BTW, remember how in Blind Watch it was always adventitious to hold C & B rather than A & B? Since they moved the flags with this last patch having C is an absolute necessity. You won't win A & B because you won't be table to take B and hold it (outside of some bizarre situation like a team of 30s against a team of 20s). The terrain/pathing advantage from C to B is completely unbalanced right now. I doubt they play-tested the flag move. Woe onto you if your team doesn't realize this.

[iw5000]

I played a IB session this morning. Warning, incoming rant. .........After trying a second time this morning, this (IB 2.0) still sucks. It's awful. Like dead corpse smelly awful. I would swear that all the fired/failed designers from CoD MP over the years, have all regrouped up inside Bungie's PvP team right now and designed this piece of shit. Just so many bad concepts working at once. Where do I start?

First thoughts.

1. The above time schedule is not right. It's going to take a lot longer than that. I think I played 10 to 12 games last night, I played ten games this morning. That's a minimum of 2 hours last night, and 1.75 hours this morning. (that's just game clock time, not real time). That's 3.75 hours (5+ real hours) Get this done in ten hours? No way. I am not quite at level 1 yet. I think I have around 1,100 of the 1,200 pts needed to reach Level 1. *(see later point on bonuses)

2. I can't make heads or tails of the leveling system (leader points). You get 25pts for a win. And 10pts for a loss. But loss points don't show up on your totals (if you go look), you seem to only get them upon your next win. And as Witty said, you can accumulate this unseen 'loss' bonus to cash in, upon your next win. So if you lose five in a row, then win....you then get your points for your past losses, as well as some bonus points for those losses too. I do not believe the two total up past the 25 pts win total. It seems to be around 20 to 22 pts in all?

3. The problem with the above? You can only carry five losses forward. Then you are fvcked. You lose six in a row, you are screwed. You get nothing for the next loss. This will come into play in my later comments:

4. You also get the tempering token thingy, which buffs your points for 12 hours. I used it on my session last night and this morning (it ran out at 830amET) It seems to grant a +15% bonus to all points. So a bounty that gives 100pts, now gives 115 pts. That is confirmed. It seems to give a lot more points on the win/loss point system. I couldn't confirm that.


The problems?

- Randoms. If you aren't grouped up. They are on your team. These people are not PvP players. They are PvE players looking to get free sh1t. So these people suck. They have no desire to win or help. They are also dumb. As GodMars said on the Blind Watch example, randoms won't understand things like that.

- Bungie makes all IB games in the control mode. This is the worst possible mode to have used, as it requires a bit of teamwork to play when capping. And randoms don't cap. Confirmed. Further adding to the difficulties, is that it would appear most randoms have no clue how the control mode works as pointed out in my 'dumb' comment. Many are quite content to trade kills while being down a flag. Guaranteed loss.

- Bungie also compounded the above by making the bounty system necessary to getting anywhere in IB (to save time) Many of the low hanging easy to do bounties are anti-winning. "Get 20 sniper shot kills". Things like that. So what you see are MANY asshats just loitering around high spots sitting there, just hoping to poach a few cheap sniping kills. You get two of these types on your team, you are screwed.

- Random loot? Almost next to nothing over 20 games. It's terrible.

- The Loss Bonus. As said above, it's only good for five losses. Once you reach this point, there's no point in finishing games. Just quit. And that's what players are doing. Including me. And believe me, it's very easy to roll up five straight losses. Especially so since Bungie's MM does not balance teams. You get sh1t on, the MM will keep those same teams it seems, especially when against a party. So change lobbies, get dumped into a few game-in-pogress losses, you'll be at five losses in no time.

- There aren't many good bounties to do. You get those done, the low hanging fruit, all that's left are ridiculously hard one's like "Get a ten kill streak"? LOL. With randoms? No chance. So with no bounties to do, why stay in games? There's no reason. People don't. So you start getting 4 v 6 games.

- I started out this morning going 2-2. Then I quickly rolled up six straight losses before quitting. I suppose I'll get a big hefty loss bonus when I do win next...but any losses in between there now, are just me wasting time. So back to my earlier point. I am just below level 1, but will probably get a couple hundred points upon my next win. But losses in between there, no points.

- I'm not losing because I'm doing bad. I'm actually doing VERY well in this mode. I'm using my level 30 Warlock and just sticking to VoidWalker, with a max Fusion Rifle & Suros. Just working that Fusion as a shotty, and working it hard. Real hard (half my kills are with it) This morning, I was probably averaging close to 18 kills a game and again, most caps on my team in most all games. But again, teammates are just god fvcking awful. And before someone calls me out that I am bs'ing, I took pics of my last two losses, to show what I am talking about.

[iw5000]

Below are my 5th and 6th losses (in a row) from this morning.

5th loss? I'm top scorer at 21-18 with seven caps. Not even sure if the bottom three are playing and those three had a total of 4 caps between them. The sixth loss? I'm 17-16 and had one guy helping me. But again, look at the other four guys on my team. This time, only THREE caps from all of them. They're just sniping, sitting in corners, standing around, etc....This game hurt. We were winning like 9,500 to 8,000 at one point, and then these clowns just stopped playing. We lost 12,900 to 20,000. Outscored 12,000 to 3,500 down the stretch. 4 to 1. WTF x 1000!!!

THIS is what I am getting almost every game playing solo. Fvck Bungie. And yes, I could just not play IB. But there's not really a choice. Play the odds of going another sixteen straight VoG runs without gear? Or try this? Pick your poison. I need Lv30 gear. So I am trying this route. It sucks what's going on. Bungie is trying to fix their loot system screwup, by giving away gear. But they are fixing the error, by forcing people to play what is their most broken part of the game, PvP.

[hebbnh]

A few things (and I apologize if this isn't helpful):

1. You're already at rank 1, and only need 100 more points to hit rank 2. Then 2400 more for 3. 2400 again for 4 and 5.

2. A win is worth 50 rep, a loss is worth 40 -- but only after you win again, and as you said this only stacks up to 5 times, so you'll get up to 200 "bonus" rep on your next win after 5+ losses.

3. Tempering buff was confirmed as 10% on Tuesday. Today it appears to be 15%. This will increase the further in the week we go, hopefully another 5% every day.

4. There is no "20 sniper headshots" Iron Banner bounty, so whoever is doing that is just a complete idiot. The only headshot related bounties are for ARs and LMGs which you should probably be using anyway. Some of the regular crucible bounties my be "anti-winning" but the Iron Banner ones seem to encourage playing the objective, or at least don't give an incentive not to play the objective. As you said, completing bounties is the fastest way to rank up, so if you get stuck on a team that's going to lose, just focus on doing those. If you're out of those...I don't know. Change characters or do something else maybe, rather than getting frustrated with being paired with randoms who have no idea what they're doing.

5. Make sure to buy the Iron Banner emblem (level 1), shader (level 2), and class item (level 4) as soon as they're available. Each one adds an additional 10% rep bonus. Combined with the Tempering, you're looking at a huge amount of bonus rep.

[iw5000]

Very helpful, ty. I thought I was starting at level 0. So that means, upon my next win, I should be level 2 plus.

I might be confusing Crucible with IB...but (always a but) then the sniper kill bounty is most definitely in the Crucible bounty system

Here's the problem. Regular Crucible bounties also work in IB. And there just aren't that many good IB bounties once you knock off the easy ones. So one would be dumb to NOT double dip on both systems. There are ten slots. Why throw away free bounty points? I knocked off at least five to seven Crucible bounties last night alone, almost leveling up my new raid gear piece. So I know I am double dipping. Others have to be too. So that's probably what's going on. It's the only explanation I can come up with, for just the constant amounts of people standing in corners sniping.

The tempering is 15% today. I tested it.

[malgato]

I played 5 games solo last night. I started out at rank 0 and finished half way to rank 2. In 5 games. I did go 4-1 in those 5 games, so that obviously helps. The randoms I got teamed with played the objective well. We tended to cap 2 flags and then spawn trap. It was good.

[iw5000]

Nov 19, 2014 11:14:14 GMT -5 malgato said:

I played 5 games solo last night. I started out at rank 0 and finished half way to rank 2. In 5 games. I did go 4-1 in those 5 games, so that obviously helps. The randoms I got teamed with played the objective well. We tended to cap 2 flags and then spawn trap. It was good.

Mal

I was just told up there you start at level 1.

Level 1 to level 2 is 1,200 pts needed.


So you got 600 pts in five games? That's 240 points. (4 x 50, plus 1 x 40 = 240) You got three bounties done then too?

[wings]

Nov 18, 2014 19:07:35 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Nov 18, 2014 18:08:18 GMT -5 wings said:

You mean I have a use for my 198 Motes of Light now?

Holy crap, you have a lot of MoL . Looks like you are not a big fan of exotic armor pieces (from Xur) or flashy class items (from the Speaker).

I have enough Strange Coins to buy them rather than chance with an engram ever since I got additional characters to play with. I think the time I spent Motes of Light was on one engram way back near release date when I never had an exotic and, since then, the Strength of the Pack Hunter cloak (the white and gold wolf one). That's it. Some Titan Marks look good but they don't go with my shader (Oracle 99) and the Warlock is just a bond. I was thinking of spending Motes of Light on the engram in the hope to get Heart of Praxis Fire but I might as well hold off because I might get the DLC anyway. If not I can dismantle unwanted armour for Shards.

[hebbnh]

iw5000: You start wherever you left off at the end of the last Iron Banner event -- this time only though.  From now on rank will reset completely with each new Iron Banner. If you started fresh because you didn't participate last time, it's still only 100 rep to hit rank 1, so that's only 2 wins or 1 bounty completion, aka extremely easy to hit. You probably got there so quick you didn't realize you ranked up. My bad on the bounty thing -- totally forgot that crucible bounties work in IB also. I'll have to make sure to grab a few of those (not the sniper one LOL) whenever I go into IB.

[malgato]

I think the key will be for us to go in as a team. Even a group of 3 would make a big difference.

[mannon]

I may have to try some IB after all. Especially if that daily buff gets higher and higher it could push the rep bonus high enough to cut that 10 hours way way down. If there are bros on PS4 to team up with that could really help too.

[dm]

I played with Tooros last night and even as a two we did well winning two tight games. Well worth partying up as there are a lot of lone players playing

[wittyscorpion]

Thoughts:

1) I am not sure if everybody knows this: Despite the existence of 3 flags, Control is still a kill based game. Having more flags just make kills earn more points. This means that it is not always a good idea to go for flags, especially for players who are on death streak (and in IB's case, horribly under leveled or out gunned). They are just feeding enemies with easy kills. Sometimes it is better to wait for super to be charged, or grab that heavy ammo near your home base, then go for caps;

2) Heavy ammo control is arguably more important than flag control. The majority (if not the entity) of the team members should gravitate towards heavy ammo as soon as they are "inbound", to secure the site and have everybody grab the ammo at the same time. 4+ players with heavy ammo is a sure way to turn things around;

3) Party up is extremely important in IB. If you can party up with friends, do that. If you are against partied up teams (this can be checked on XONE by going into player profile I think), back out. If you are solo and lucky enough to be on a team with players who know what they are doing, stay in, and make sure you "opt in" for the team chat;

4) Don't stay in a IB lobby if you lost 2-3 games in a row. It is a strong cue that the opposition is teamed up.

Regarding speed: I have like 8 IB games played, out of which I lost 5, and 2 IB bounties completed. With the buff, I am half way through rank1 -> rank2, with 1 loss medallion to be cashed in. I am confident that by using a buff on Saturday (for 6 hours) and another on Sunday (for 12 hours if I have to), I can reach rank 5 no problem.

[wittyscorpion]

With the team chat feature, it is now possible to start solo and then make "friends" along the way, and build a fire team over a span of a few games. Do that to increase your odds of winning.

Mal / Stone / Heb: we should definitely team up for this. Ideally on Saturday and Sunday for me. If we have a team, we can reach the desired rank pretty easily with the the buff.

[iw5000]

Nov 19, 2014 12:19:27 GMT -5 wittyscorpion said:

Thoughts:

1) I am not sure if everybody knows this: Despite the existence of 3 flags, Control is still a kill based game. Having more flags just make kills earn more points. This means that it is not always a good idea to go for flags, especially for players who are on death streak (and in IB's case, horribly under leveled or out gunned). They are just feeding enemies with easy kills. Sometimes it is better to wait for super to be charged, or grab that heavy ammo near your home base, then go for caps;

Yes, but If you are down two flags to one, I 'think' the opponents are getting twice the points per kill over you. They get all three flags, is it three to one in pts? if so, there is very little benefit to sitting tight. With supers and other explosive nonsense, very rarely is your team going to be able to outkill the other team by a 2 to 1 margin to make up for the above difference. You start trading kills down a flag, you fall behind very fast.

Heavy ammo control is arguably more important than flag control. The majority (if not the entity) of the team members should gravitate towards heavy ammo as soon as they are "inbound", to secure the site and have everybody grab the ammo at the same time. 4+ players with heavy ammo is a sure way to turn things around;

Sometimes. But what I see (playing with randoms) is a mad rush by the entire team to go chase after this ammo, and then what happens is you suddenly lose one to two flags. Or get triple capped. And when your whole team rushes, typically only 1 to 2 of them get the ammo drop, and the other half gets nothing. Wasted time. Two to three people just did nothing.

[iw5000]

Nov 19, 2014 11:37:53 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

iw5000: You start wherever you left off at the end of the last Iron Banner event -- this time only though.  From now on rank will reset completely with each new Iron Banner. If you started fresh because you didn't participate last time, it's still only 100 rep to hit rank 1, so that's only 2 wins or 1 bounty completion, aka extremely easy to hit. You probably got there so quick you didn't realize you ranked up. My bad on the bounty thing -- totally forgot that crucible bounties work in IB also. I'll have to make sure to grab a few of those (not the sniper one LOL) whenever I go into IB.

Interesting.

I think I am at level 1 right now. That's at least what the image shows when I talk to the IB person. That would have to make sense, as I have close to 20 games played right now. No way I can be level 0.

right now I am sitting on about five losses worth of points. If I can win a game, that would mean about 200 more pts to me. Puts me at level 2 then.