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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 3, 2015 1:13:49 GMT -5
Isn't the Pummeler a straight upgrade over the Doctor?
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Will
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Post by Will on Feb 3, 2015 1:28:41 GMT -5
Isn't the Pummeler a straight upgrade over the Doctor? Yes, it does appear that way. If you're crazy enough to use a bolt action in HC... (and of course in HC S&D half my party does just that, for dem killcamz)
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 3, 2015 9:37:52 GMT -5
I tested each one several times, to make sure error was kept to a minimum, and consistently got quicker times for all faster RoF variants. What's going on here? Frame rate drops. As the frame rate drops, those guns will deviate from the fire rates favored by 60 FPS. On a similar note, the Obsidian Steed has no fire rate penalty at 60 FPS, but its fire rate will drop as frames are dropped. Ps4 has vsync and rarely drops below 60fps. There shouldn't even be micro variations in frame rate... In my understanding. Also, firing range should be very easy to render, so the framerate should be capable of probably 120fps+
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 3, 2015 9:53:04 GMT -5
What you see with vsync is totally a graphic thing and is different (but tied to) from the internal frame rate that the fire rate issue relies on. If it wasnt then youd only see frames change by a factor of two (and get rather explicit fire rate results or at the very least youd never see the fire rate rise as frame rate dropped). So you're saying while the game is visually running smooth, internal processes may not? But if the firerate is locked to framerate (in that you can only fire a shot with a new frame) how.. is?
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 3, 2015 11:22:36 GMT -5
Vsync lowers frame rate to match your display's display rate. It doesn't raise the frame rate magically to 60 Hz, but prevents it from going above that value (or 120 Hz or 240 Hz or whatever the case may be) and thus causing clipping.
That said, frame rate appears to be rock solid on PS4, at least anecdotally. Digital Foundry showed that the frame rate is extremely consistent. However, even slight drops (i.e. 57 FPS) are enough to affect some of these guns.
Also, Fear usually plays splitscreen, which reduces performance.
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Post by xFEARtheSHIELDx on Feb 3, 2015 13:32:39 GMT -5
Also, firing range should be very easy to render, so the framerate should be capable of probably 120fps+ My thinking exactly, which is why I did the testing there. That said, frame rate appears to be rock solid on PS4, at least anecdotally. Digital Foundry showed that the frame rate is extremely consistent. Also, Fear usually plays splitscreen, which reduces performance. This is what I remember reading, so I was suprised when you said frame rate drops were to blame. If this console can't render 60fps with one guy in a small room with nothing in it, god help us. I wasn't splitscreening when I did the stopwatch tests. Maybe I should try again and actually write down the results.
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Post by LeGitBeeSting on Feb 3, 2015 13:58:32 GMT -5
LF Touchfutbol player, WTT Ravager for FaceHammer.
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Post by r00stad00ks on Feb 4, 2015 8:49:17 GMT -5
Is the HBR Insanity the best gun now that the HBR got the 3HK range buff? I don't have it and I haven't seen many HBR uses on the PS4 yet. So I'm mostly curious if I am going to be stomped by full teams of Insanity uses soon.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 4, 2015 12:25:28 GMT -5
Does the HBR have a larger 3 hit kill range than before its nerf? If the patch was simply a rollback of the nerf, then, no, the HBR is not top tier, but is probably real close.
It was always a good gun, but the Bal was simply better.
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Post by xFEARtheSHIELDx on Feb 4, 2015 20:50:02 GMT -5
Not top tier? I think one could easily make a "best in show" argument. Compared to the Obsidian Steed, which is pretty universally considered the best variant, the first 4rds come out at 1000rpm, verses the Steed's 600rpm. After the first 4, they both fire at 750.
Even if they still had the same 3hk range, the Insanity has a pretty big edge. Now it Im guessing it has at least 3x the previous 3hk kill range.
Steed has better irons, and recoil is probably similar due to the the Steeds recoil debuff. Same hipfire, and the Steed aims 10% faster. Plus you can use a sight, if that's your thing.
Despite having a few advantages, IMO the Insanity wins out; TTK is hard to beat. I've had many kills with it that surprised me, and that was before the buff.
ETA: nevermind, I'm dum. just realized Steed is still 3hk'ing at R2 value.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 4, 2015 21:51:07 GMT -5
I believe the Inferno is better than the Steed, particularly in CQC.
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Post by brontesaur on Feb 5, 2015 1:09:25 GMT -5
It's very hard to quantify whether the OS is better or the Inferno is better. Personally the Inferno feels nicer (faster fire rate is more forgiving of a missed bullet as well as better hipfire) but I do slightly better with the OS as it still punches much harder per bullet, saving me ammo and I get caught less in reloads. Also the OS doesn't need quickdraw whereas the Inferno feels very sluggish without it.
I haven't used the new Insanity yet, I'll have to see if it plays with the big boys.
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Will
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Post by Will on Feb 5, 2015 1:26:59 GMT -5
It's very hard to quantify whether the OS is better or the Inferno is better. You can quantify that the Steed has a faster TTK at all ranges beyond 200"
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Post by brontesaur on Feb 5, 2015 8:04:56 GMT -5
It's very hard to quantify whether the OS is better or the Inferno is better. You can quantify that the Steed has a faster TTK at all ranges beyond 200" A guy on reddit worked out that their TTKs are pretty similar. If you mean that after frame rounding the OS is better then unfortunately 60 FPS doesn't apply to me.
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Post by strokedem on Feb 6, 2015 9:02:29 GMT -5
Theres three guns you need in this game. Long range, medium range, close range. Long Range: ARX160 Hole Puncher Medium Range: BAL27 Inferno Close Range: ASM1 (i use the rigor, magnitude & competence) Any asm1 variant is good, those are just the three that i have.
The Hole Puncher very quickly became my favorite/highest kd gun. Not alot of people use it either because there is a little skill gap with this gun.
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Post by buddy4 on Feb 10, 2015 1:08:22 GMT -5
I guess I'll make a top guns thingy too lol. FeartheShield had a lot that I also considered the best, Now I just wanna add the ones I personally thought should be here.
Also, I put them in order of Best > 2nd Best > etc.
Assault Rifles Bal-27 - Obsidian Steed > Inferno AK-12 - Hair Trigger > R.I.P. ARX-160 - Hole Puncher > Steel Bite HBRa3 - Insanity > Average Joe IMR - Impact MK14 - Signature > Eclipse AE4 - Supernova > Gigawatt
SMGs KF5 - Genuine > Breakneck MP11 - Goliath ASM1 - Speakeasy > Competence > Magnitude/Rigor > Strider SN6 - The Third > Hammer > Executioner Sac3 - Blood & Glory > Rapid > JK > Fire & Brimstone AMR9 - Pro Pipe
Heavy EM1 - Pwner > LEL Pyteak - Loophole XMG's - Bacon & Eggs > Meat & Potatoes > Chicken and Waffles EPM3 - Exterminator Ameli - Heavy > Red Shirt > Accelerated > Subverter
Shotguns Tac-19 - Sledgehammer, Uppercut S-12 - Whirlwind Bulldog - Face Hammer
Snipers Lynx - Tack-Driver MORS - Quick Bolt > The Doctor NA-45 - Screamin' Atlas 20mm - Virtuosity
Pistols Atlas 45 - Woo RW1 - Rail Driver > Typhoon MP-443 Grach - Snappy > Hasty PDW - Condensed > Chucker > Crusher
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 10, 2015 8:38:59 GMT -5
Also, MK14 signature and eclipse are both bottom tier. Best would be eagle eye > sheriff
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banana
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Post by banana on Feb 10, 2015 12:57:42 GMT -5
Say someone had every variant, which guns should you only use if you want do like really good (so no shotguns lmao)? Just the obsidian steed, magnitude, and heavy?
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Will
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Post by Will on Feb 10, 2015 14:56:05 GMT -5
Say someone had every variant, which guns should you only use if you want do like really good (so no shotguns lmao)? Just the obsidian steed, magnitude, and heavy? Those 3 yeah, and situationally the NA-45 Ravager (it makes the best overkilled secondary) if you are playing an objective game type.
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Post by buddy4 on Feb 10, 2015 20:04:30 GMT -5
I disagree.
MK14 Signature would be very good for anyone with a good trigger or a modified controller. 800 RPM is higher than the default AK-12. Although people like me can never reach anywhere near that high, the Eclipse offers some penetration and other good bonuses, and I can hit 545 RPM with my finger so no loss there.
The Eagle Eye is not at all a good variant. The amount of restrictions in attachments you have makes it worthless. The only real upside is you get a quickdraw grip early. But I would stop using it after I unlock a suppressor. Furthermore, the Speakeasy is a good variant, I have no idea why you would think its not. 1000+ RPM, 67 rounds, 3HK range of 500in, SMG handling, small hipfire.
If your saying it isn't good because you can't use it at long range, here's a secret about the Speakeasy and most SMGs in general: (don't use it at long range)
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asasa
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Post by asasa on Feb 10, 2015 20:53:19 GMT -5
If you can find someone who is hitting 700RPM with a trigger finger I'd agree that the Signature may be useful... however, I don't think more than a few people (count on one hand) can do that, without cheating (I.E. modded controller/trigger stops/non LMB keybind) and even if you include the cheaters, I still don't imagine there are too many who would find the extra 100RPM attainable.
I could be totally wrong about the Eagle Eye; I dont have it. I just figured as long as Foregrip isn't disallowed, its gotta be the best because it has free quickdraw, and longer range. Suppressor on an MK14 makes zero sense to me since you are killing its usable range.
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Will
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Post by Will on Feb 10, 2015 21:00:46 GMT -5
I disagree. MK14 Signature would be very good for anyone with a good trigger or a modified controller. 800 RPM is higher than the default AK-12. Although people like me can never reach anywhere near that high, the Eclipse offers some penetration and other good bonuses, and I can hit 545 RPM with my finger so no loss there. The Eagle Eye is not at all a good variant. The amount of restrictions in attachments you have makes it worthless. The only real upside is you get a quickdraw grip early. But I would stop using it after I unlock a suppressor. Furthermore, the Speakeasy is a good variant, I have no idea why you would think its not. 1000+ RPM, 67 rounds, 3HK range of 500in, SMG handling, small hipfire. If your saying it isn't good because you can't use it at long range, here's a secret about the Speakeasy and most SMGs in general: (don't use it at long range) Never said that the Speakeasy isn't good, just that the Magnitude is better. They both have the same firerate for the first 8 rounds, so the extra RPM of the speakeasy is negligible compared to the extra 3HK range of the Magnitude.
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Post by buddy4 on Feb 10, 2015 22:05:36 GMT -5
For each class; I think these are the best variants: Pros, Cons, and Subjectives (which are usually bad, but some people might not be bothered by it) I added Rapid Fire as a subjective to weapons because technically it boosts a weapons TTK, but sometimes it isn't need or is impractical. Other times it makes a huge difference. Assault Rifles: **These 3 I feel are all tied in overall effectiveness; but I ranked them in the order I personally prefer. Again, I feel the 3 are equally strong in their balance of 3HK range and RoF. 1) Obsidian Steed - PRO: 1200in 3HK, Low recoil - CON: 600RPM to 750RPM - SUB: none 2) Hole Puncher - PRO: 2000in 3HK, Low recoil - CON: 610RPM, Awkward reload - SUB: Burst fire 3) Insanity - PRO: 900in 3HK, 1000RPM to 750RPM - CON: High recoil - SUB: Bad iron sights (no optics allowed) SMGs: Wanted to include Goliath and Genuine, but Its gonna be a top 3 sort of deal; Also, ASM1 being the only one with a consistent 3HK range seals that deal. 1) Competence - PRO: 500in 3HK, Drop off to a 5HK, 1000RPM to 759RPM - CON: High recoil - SUB: Rapid Fire **Range nerf DOES NOT effect 3HK range. No 4HK range. So yeah. 2) Speakeasy - PRO: 1016 RPM, 500in 3HK - CON: Drop off to a 7HK, High recoil - SUB: Rapid Fire, Extended mags LOCKED (you save a CAC point, but you may have rather had a different 3rd attachment). 3) Magnitude/Rigor - PRO: 575/500in 3HK, 1000RPM to 759RPM - CON: High recoil/20% less than High recoil - SUB: Rapid Fire Heavy: **wanted to add Bacon and Eggs, but XMGs just aren't practical lol. 1) Heavy - PRO: 3HK only, 100 rounds - CON: 666 RPM, Long reload, LMG handling - SUB: Rapid Fire (~800RPM) 2) Pwner - PRO: Tiny hipfire, unlimited ammo, above average TTK - CON: Overheat, LMG handling - SUB: 3600 RPM (console anyways), 17-25HK, COLORS! LAZOR! 3) Redshirt - PRO: 1400in 3HK, 800 RPM, 100 rounds - CON: Drops straight to a 6HK after 1400in, Long Reload, LMG handling - SUB: Rapid Fire Shotguns: Bulldog for Semi, Tac-19 for Pump, S-12 for suicide. Pick the ones with +Damage, +Accuracy, +Range (in that order). Snipers: NA-45 is the best. Just kidding, all snipers function too differently to be compared. However, I personally have enjoyed the NA-45 and the Lynx the most. Lynx w/ Iron sights is really fun! (that's right, I got 50 headshots with it > Pistols: Besides the RW1, they are terrible. Then RW1 is very powerful and I've ran it as a primary a few times with much success. RailDriver or Typhoon are the variants to have. What do you guys think are the best and why?
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Post by buddy4 on Feb 10, 2015 22:07:53 GMT -5
About the speakeasy, I wasn't talking about you Will; But you do bring up a true and interesting point; all of them shoot 1000 for the first 8.
Considering that, I think you may be right about the speakeasy. But what are your thoughts about the competence? The range nerf doesn't effect any range of shots to kill.
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Post by buddy4 on Feb 10, 2015 22:11:59 GMT -5
If you can find someone who is hitting 700RPM with a trigger finger I'd agree that the Signature may be useful... however, I don't think more than a few people (count on one hand) can do that, without cheating (I.E. modded controller/trigger stops/non LMB keybind) and even if you include the cheaters, I still don't imagine there are too many who would find the extra 100RPM attainable. I could be totally wrong about the Eagle Eye; I dont have it. I just figured as long as Foregrip isn't disallowed, its gotta be the best because it has free quickdraw, and longer range. Suppressor on an MK14 makes zero sense to me since you are killing its usable range. Suppressor makes a lot of sense, especially in a game when moving throughout the map is easy to do. Even shooting people at range, if they know where you are on the map, it won't be difficult to get to you and outgun you at closer rangers. Also, you cannot use stock, suppressor, optics, any kind of magazine upgrade, and maybe some others. To me, not being able to have stock or suppressor is a huge turn off. If you don't use them, you'll love it I guess. Again, these are my opinions; The eagle eye could have been great, but the restrictions is what killed it.
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Post by Megaqwerty on Feb 11, 2015 1:33:02 GMT -5
I have a horrible trigger finger so the Eclipse is perfect for me.
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