Well... shit... Xur still hates Warlocks

[mannon]

Xur's an ass. heh

www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2p2cce/xur_megathread_121214_121414/

Okay so... He basically does nothing for me... I can't upgrade my voidfang and that's the only exotic he's selling for me so if I want a 36 light exotic my only option is to... rebuy voidfang or take a chance on the engram lottery if I have enough Motes... which I don't think I do. That's assuming that he is selling NEW exotics and not the old exotics. If I think about it purchasing new for 13 coins vs upgrading for 7 coins and 7k glimmer is actually a pretty good deal since I keep the original to dismantle for an exotic shard. So for the cost of a few coins to buy a new one instead of upgrading I'm already prepared to upgrade it... assuming you get an exotic shard for every dismantle and it isn't dependent on RNG.

eh... Maybe I should do that... or maybe I should purchase Truth? I dunno. I'm still trying to upgrade Plan C and Invective, though and if I use Truth I can't use those. Just how good is Truth? As of now I'm thinking I already have two exotic specials and I have the bounty for Bad Juju, so exotic heavies are probably not going to get much use out of me for a while.


At least I can stop putting off purchasing Vanguard 33 light armor. Hmm... If I buy a new Voidfang and new gloves I'll be able to hit level 30 even with my old legendary helmet. I can probably buy pants too that way and save the helmet for last considering I may still get a shot at an exotic helmet next week or something. I dunno... lots of options I'm just getting feck all on exotics other than voidfang...

[malgato]

Exotic Gear:

Ruin Wings Guantlets. Titan. 106 STR
Achlyophage Symbiote Helmet. Hunter. 101 Dsc
Voidfang Vestments Chest. Warlock. 139 STR
Truth Rocket launcher.
Exotic Shard. Material.
Helmet Exotic Engram

Curios:

Pulse Rifle Telemetry
Scout Rifle Telemetry
Fusion Rifle Telemetry
Plasma Drive Vehicle
Emerald Coil Vehicle
Urn of Sacrifice. Mission item.

Exotic Upgrades:

Mask of the Third Man Helmet. Hunter. 92 INT
Young Ahamkara's Spine Gauntlets. Hunter. 109 DSC
The Armamentarium Chest. Titan. 167 DSC
No Backup Plans Gauntlets. Titan. 111 STR
Light Beyond Nemesis Helmet. Warlock. 103 STR
Sunbreakers Gauntlets. Warlock. 87 INT

Suros Regime. Auto rifle.
Red Death. Pulse rifle.
The Last Word. Hand cannon.
Thorn. Hand cannon.
Icebreaker. Sniper rifle.
Thunderlord. Machine gun.

[hebbnh]

mannon: It's cheaper just to buy it new rather than upgrading the old one, so that's what I'm going to do. You will for sure get an exotic shard for breaking the old one down. Truth is good but it's no Gjallarhorn. The tracking and proximity detonation is nice, but damage is the same as every other launcher. Definitely prioritize armor -- anything that allows you to level up is going to benefit you more than a weapon doing slightly more damage, especially a launcher that you'll only use situationally anyway.

[mannon]

Yeah I started to realize that as I was looking at it and thinking about the fact that I can dismantle the old one for an exotic shard saving me 7 coins on the upgrade. So I'll definitely purchase it and probably get gloves and pants from Vanguard. I'll leave the helmet for until I need it for level 31 in the hopes that I get an exotic helmet someday. Might pickup some telemetries and the urn since I'm sure I'll need it at some point.

[wings]

I only bought the Voidfang Vestments because of the level cap increase. So my Heart of Praxic Fire will unlikely be used and I doubt I can buy one because we have seen Voidfang Vestments appear seven times in a row. I do not think this is a bug, nor RNG. It is deliverate because I swear the gear is hand picked by Bungie staff and I can see traces of people saying this referencing to a video which featured DeeJ saying Xur's stock is not random, which has been deleted since.

I do not like to appear to be throwing toys out of a pram since most computer game issues are like first world problems anyway but this is just slowing down my progression. Along with the Commendations in place, caps etc and no chance to try the Nightfall because I do not have the DLC, I am wondering if I am better off playing something else.

[iw5000]

Dec 12, 2014 10:31:35 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

mannon: It's cheaper just to buy it new rather than upgrading the old one, so that's what I'm going to do. You will for sure get an exotic shard for breaking the old one down. Truth is good but it's no Gjallarhorn. The tracking and proximity detonation is nice, but damage is the same as every other launcher. Definitely prioritize armor -- anything that allows you to level up is going to benefit you more than a weapon doing slightly more damage, especially a launcher that you'll only use situationally anyway.

I looked this morning before work, but then forgot the details.


What is the cost of a New Lv 36 Exotic? And a refurbished Lv 36 Exotic?


What are the different finishing requirements for the two? Like if my Warlock buys a brand new Chest armor, what does it take to fully complete it's leveling process? Is the process the same for a refurbished Chest piece?

[hebbnh]

New exotic armors are still 13 coins just like before. The cost to reXurbish an old exotic to the new 36 light version is 1 exotic shard (which cost 7 coins) plus 7000 glimmer. Either way you start from scratch on the leveling process so there's no difference there.

Here's why buying new is better than reXurbishing: The total cost to fully upgrade is less. Buying new costs you 13 coins for the piece itself and 1 exotic shard (aka 7 coins). But you'll get that exotic shard for "free" from breaking down the old 30 light version since you won't be needing it anymore (you actually get 2 shards if it was fully leveled already -- bonus!). So the total cost is 13 coins. If you reXurbish, you pay 7 coins plus 7000 glimmer up front, plus you'll have to spend 7 more coins for the exotic shard to fully upgrade it on the back end. So the total cost to fully upgrade is 14 coins and 7000 glimmer. 13 coins is a lot nicer than 14 coins + 7000 glimmer, obviously.

Basically try to buy new if you can.  Personally I'll be reXurbishing my Armamentarium despite the higher cost because I'm impatient and don't want to wait who knows how long for Xur to sell it new again, but I'll just buy a new Voidfang instead of upgrading my old one.

[mannon]

Both new pieces will start out with zero progress so cost to upgrade them is the same. The main difference is that purchasing instead of exchanging doesn't cost you the old armor.

Cost to Purchase = 13 coins
Upgrading purchased exotic subsidized by dismantling old one for a "free" exotic shard. [Or 2 if fully upgraded.]

Cost to Exchange = Old Exotic Armor, Exotic Shard (7 coins), and 7,000 Glimmer [All progress on old exotic lost, no return on upgrade investment.]
Upgrading exchanged exotic will cost a shard (7 coins or dismantle an exotic).


Purchasing is definitely a better deal. On coins alone it's 13 vs 14.

[mannon]

Sweet! I didn't even realize I would get 2 shards for my upgraded voidfang. Lord that makes upgrading it a TERRIBLE deal!

[mannon]

Oh... I also am a bit weak on weapons... Forgot about that. The only legendary primaries I have are old legendaries and both are hand cannons. Perhaps I should just get voidfang and gloves then focus on a legendary auto rifle or something.

[iw5000]

I'm glad I held off this morning, waiting to see what the board says.

So is this the thought process... > the only reason to refurbish is IF you feel you won't be able to buy/see/find another like-kind Exotic anytime soon? If you can't replace, then refurbish!!!!"


For example, were my actions this morning correct?

I refurbished my IceBreaker this morning. And my Suros Regime. I did so because Xur wasn't selling those weapons (only the Truth, which I already have) and those two haven't been for sell in months. So I spent 14 coins and 14,000 glimmer. I figured since I use those two weapons a lot, better to upgrade them now, get the small damage bonus (start at 302) and immediately start the leveling process to 330. Maybe have them done by the end of the weekend? Getting them done now, was better than waiting maybe months for them to reappear again.

I think my logic was correct. There was no decision to make here, in regards to getting a new one. Xur hasn't sold a Suros or IB in ages.

[markopolo]

I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a hellalong time for Xur to sell my exotic to upgrade. hell, I might buy a helmet engram to see if lightning will strike twice and I'll get an updated Dire Ak.

At least I can continue my exotic weapons bounty now

[thebb22]

I'm planning to upgrade my IceBreaker as well. This is how it's gonna go....Bungie is going to see that everyone and their sister is upgrading IceBreaker this week, so in turn, they will have Xur sell it next week to troll the living sh*t out of all of us since they haven't sold one for ages.

[iw5000]

Dec 12, 2014 11:31:49 GMT -5 hebbnh said:

New exotic armors are still 13 coins just like before. The cost to reXurbish an old exotic to the new 36 light version is 1 exotic shard (which cost 7 coins) plus 7000 glimmer. Either way you start from scratch on the leveling process so there's no difference there.

Here's why buying new is better than reXurbishing: The total cost to fully upgrade is less. Buying new costs you 13 coins for the piece itself and 1 exotic shard (aka 7 coins). But you'll get that exotic shard for "free" from breaking down the old 30 light version since you won't be needing it anymore (you actually get 2 shards if it was fully leveled already -- bonus!). So the total cost is 13 coins. If you reXurbish, you pay 7 coins plus 7000 glimmer up front, plus you'll have to spend 7 more coins for the exotic shard to fully upgrade it on the back end. So the total cost to fully upgrade is 14 coins and 7000 glimmer. 13 coins is a lot nicer than 14 coins + 7000 glimmer, obviously.

Basically try to buy new if you can.  Personally I'll be reXurbishing my Armamentarium despite the higher cost because I'm impatient and don't want to wait who knows how long for Xur to sell it new again, but I'll just buy a new Voidfang instead of upgrading my old one.

one sec....

EDIT..I GOT IT

BUY NEW
- Upfront: 1 exotic shard (7 coins)
- To Level: 1 exotic shard (7 coins)
LESS....
trade in exotic...which gives 1 to 2 exotic shards.

XFURBISH
- Upfront: 1 exotic shard (7 coins) + 7,000 Glimmer
- To Level: 1 exotic shard (7 coins)

[hebbnh]

Dec 12, 2014 11:54:11 GMT -5 iw5000 said:

I'm glad I held off this morning, waiting to see what the board says.

So is this the thought process... > the only reason to refurbish is IF you feel you won't be able to buy/see/find another like-kind Exotic anytime soon? If you can't replace, then refurbish!!!!"


For example, were my actions this morning correct?

I refurbished my IceBreaker this morning. And my Suros Regime. I did so because Xur wasn't selling those weapons (only the Truth, which I already have) and those two haven't been for sell in months. So I spent 14 coins and 14,000 glimmer. I figured since I use those two weapons a lot, better to upgrade them now, get the small damage bonus (start at 302) and immediately start the leveling process to 330. Maybe have them done by the end of the weekend? Getting them done now, was better than waiting maybe months for them to reappear again.

I think my logic was correct. There was no decision to make here, in regards to getting a new one. Xur hasn't sold a Suros or IB in ages.

That's exactly my thought process and exactly what I would've done.  Of course THebb is probably right and Xur will sell Ice Breaker next week LOL.

[markopolo]

Dec 12, 2014 12:00:32 GMT -5 thebb22 said:

I'm planning to upgrade my IceBreaker as well. This is how it's gonna go....Bungie is going to see that everyone and their sister is upgrading IceBreaker this week, so in turn, they will have Xur sell it next week to troll the living sh*t out of all of us since they haven't sold one for ages.

You say this as if it is a bad thing.

Not everyone in this world has an Icebreaker, ya know.

#Check_yer_privilege,yo

[iw5000]

Of course they will.

[mannon]

For you [reply to IW] I think that's probably fine. You'll have them upgraded and running probably well before they are on sale again. For someone with less playtime who might take several weeks to upgrade it might be better to wait, but it's something of a lottery whether waiting will pay off or not, because there's no guarantee they will be for sale anytime soon.


I really don't understand the whole Xur thing. I'd understand if it was just RNG, but it clearly is not. I do not understand why Bungie would consistently hand pick the items he keeps selling, though. Clearly we're sick to death of voidfang... continuing this is actually frustrating many players and making the game less fun for them. (I don't mind running voidfang as I've never had any other exotic to compare it to anyway.) I can understand controlling drops but surely there are not so few exotics that they can't offer us something else without it getting out of hand. Doesn't make much sense to me... unless it's neither completely random, nor hand picked. There could actually be some logic behind it that the community hasn't figured out yet. Of course that could depend upon and or all of the metadata in the entire game so it's pretty hard to gauge unless it turns out to be something simple.

[hebbnh]

iw5000: No, you still have to spend a shard at the end to fully upgrade a new exotic. If you already have an old copy of that exotic though, you can break it down and get the shard from doing that rather than spending 7 coins for a shard. So it's just 13 coins to buy new. I see how my wording was confusing there, just read what mannon said, his post is much clearer.

[iw5000]

Dec 12, 2014 12:07:14 GMT -5 mannon said:

For you [reply to IW] I think that's probably fine. You'll have them upgraded and running probably well before they are on sale again. For someone with less playtime who might take several weeks to upgrade it might be better to wait, but it's something of a lottery whether waiting will pay off or not, because there's no guarantee they will be for sale anytime soon.


I really don't understand the whole Xur thing. I'd understand if it was just RNG, but it clearly is not. I do not understand why Bungie would consistently hand pick the items he keeps selling, though. Clearly we're sick to death of voidfang... continuing this is actually frustrating many players and making the game less fun for them. (I don't mind running voidfang as I've never had any other exotic to compare it to anyway.) I can understand controlling drops but surely there are not so few exotics that they can't offer us something else without it getting out of hand. Doesn't make much sense to me... unless it's neither completely random, nor hand picked. There could actually be some logic behind it that the community hasn't figured out yet. Of course that could depend upon and or all of the metadata in the entire game so it's pretty hard to gauge unless it turns out to be something simple.

I think the best way to understand Bungie's motivations is like this.

The more people they can keep endlessly grinding and chasing the prize every month ....the bigger their performance bonuses will be by Activision.

Everything works off of that. It is not in their interest to to allow you or anyone else to get ANYTHING done in one hour, when they get you (willingly) to grind for it in ten.

[markopolo]

I think it's time the Cryptarch takes Xur to WHA (Warlock Hatred Anonymous) so he can deal with his issues.

Either that, or we need to send a crack squad of Uberwarlocks to find the Nine's factories where they are mass producing sunslinger gauntlets and voidfang vestments... and have then deal with a production malfunction or they'll incite labour unrest causing strikes and prolonged arbitration hearings

[iw5000]

I'm not even sure how many Warlock Exotics there are.

I have two types of Warlock Exotic helmets. One type of Chest piece. And one type of Gauntlet. Are there 2nd versions of the Chest and Gauntlets out there?

[wittyscorpion]

I am glad that we solved the problem of buying new vs. refurbish old on armors. That simplifies a lot of decisions

On the weapon side refurbish is still the better choice, since 17 coins > 14 coins (special and heavy), and of course 23 coins >> 14 coins (primary)

What I considering doing:

1) Hunter

a) Buy Achlyophage Symbiote with 13 coins to replace the 2 I already own, of which 1 is fully upgraded. I'll dismantle the not upgraded one first and use the exotic shard to upgrade the new helm, while in transition still use the old one. It will later give me 2 more exotic shards which is equivalent to 14 coins. Total cost: I actually gain 1 coin once I am done

b) Still pondering whether I want to upgrade Mask of The Third Man. With 1.a above there is no urgency now, probably means that I probably should pass and wait for it to be on sale. On the other hand, I do like to play as Bladedancer in CsE so the main issue here is the opportunity cost, as we don't know when the armor will be on sale and/or available for upgrade again;

2) Titan:

a) Buy Ruined Wings for sure.
b) Upgrade Armamentarium almost for sure, because this is probably still my 1st piece of choice for 36-light. Also, same opportunity cost issue as 1.b) and with higher priority;

3) Warlock

a) Buy Voidfang Vestments almost for sure. Great PvP piece.
b) Unlikely to upgrade either choices. Sunbreaker is decent but on the mediocre side, but it's unlikely for me to get Warlock to level 31 before the next Xur's Day, so there is no urgency. Also, I have 3.a available if I do have time to push Warlock to level 31;

4) Engrams

With everything new again and zero chance of getting something useless, I will definitely buy this. I have enough MoL for 2 gambles, and I am tempted to do just that. In the worst case scenario, it equals a purchase of exotic shards for 23 MoL, not a bad deal.

5) Weapons

No need for Thorn since I haven't completed my bounty yet. I am going to get a new one once I am done
Pass on the Last Word as it is a PvP weapon. Fully upgraded ones will only matter in IB, and there are plenty of other choices to use in IB anyway.
Pass on the Thurderlord because it is my last choice of exotic for both PvE and for PvP .
Pass on the Red Death since I am going to get Bad Juju from my soon to be completed bounty and that is a better Pulse Rifle

So

5.a) Suros Regime
5.b) Ice Breaker

6) Exotic shards

Just getting the weapons and armors are not enough, I also need shards. At least 1 for each class, and a few selected weapons.

7) Quest line: Urn of Sacrifice, 1 coin per character

Total cost:

Coins: 13 (1.a) + 7 (1.b) + 13 (2.a) + 7 (2.b) + 13 (3.a) + 7 (5.a) + 7 (5.b) + 3 (7) = 70, that's before buying any exotic shards. So I only get to be a hundredaire for 1 week

Glimmers: need 7000+ for 1.b/2.b/5.a/5.b. Broke

[wittyscorpion]

Dec 12, 2014 12:00:32 GMT -5 thebb22 said:

I'm planning to upgrade my IceBreaker as well. This is how it's gonna go....Bungie is going to see that everyone and their sister is upgrading IceBreaker this week, so in turn, they will have Xur sell it next week to troll the living sh*t out of all of us since they haven't sold one for ages.

This is not a problem because for weapons refurbish is still better than purchasing new, you'll save 3 coins for special and heavy, and 9 coins for primary.

[mannon]

Why bother selling exotics at all then? And why the class favoritism? I'm not saying they don't want us grinding, clearly this game is designed to get as much play time as possible out of the available content to keep us playing until the next expansion. It's the old MMO strategy with loads of built in time sinks even though it's not a subscription model.

Seriously, though... Destiny is not THAT bad. I've played lots of MMOs. I've seen things, man... heh You have no idea how lucky we are. For one we have instanced loot. You get your own loot and so does everybody else. You think RNG is bad when it's just drops now imagine an entire guild banding together to raid a dungeon who's final boss has a X% chance to drop a rare loot item and he only drops... one. So everyone in the guild that needs it rolls for it and somebody wins the lottery. And that boss has at least a 48 hour spawn timer if not longer. Anyway grinding isn't necessarily fun, but it can be to some extent... it varies.

Grinding certainly is important to Bungie's business model to keep us playing what is primarily a co-op/single player progression heavy game so they can sell us expansions and more. But so is fun. If they just turned Destiny totally into a cow clicker they could maximize grinding, but they would lose even more of us.

[markopolo]

Refresh my memory... how many MoL is it for the engram?

[wittyscorpion]

Dec 12, 2014 12:53:23 GMT -5 markopolo said:

Refresh my memory... how many MoL is it for the engram?

23. and it is not a bad price for 1 exotic shard (worst case scenario if you don't like the piece you get).

In other words: 23 MoL => 7 - 13 coins, with 7 as the worst case scenario and 13 as the best case scenario, plus a lottery on the top tier gears.

[mannon]

Usually 23. Reddit megathread doesn't list a price for some reason.

[wittyscorpion]

Regarding grinding:

my position is that I don't consider anything as grinding if I enjoy the activities to get to where I want to be, so overall I like the current state of Destiny:

1) The only thing I hate before is the material farming, and Bungie has already "fixed" that;
2) Exotic upgrade: this is much easier than before, which was severely limited by destination materials and Ascendant Energy. Upgrade tree does not take too long to complete, materials can be bought with marks, and exotic shard can be bought with coins;
3) Replace old legendary with new legendary: this is not too bad either because there are plenty of stuff to break down to get Ascendant Energy, and non-raid and raid now have separate tracks. The road to level 32 is largely gated by the Radiant Materials which can only be acquired by playing CsE, but the raid is a lot of fun and we will be playing it for quite some time. We will have abundant materials in no time;

Also, one thing I like a lot is that all currencies/materials now have purpose and we are no longer going to have "too many" of anything. For example, yesterday I realized that I now have a lot of incentive to play VoG, because I need the Ascendant Material production.

[wings]

So "We've woken the Hive!" has been replaced by "Access key? I don't need an access key."