hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 22, 2015 11:21:17 GMT -5
I figured I'd go ahead and make a separate thread for CE HM info/discussion/whatever so it's easier to find and doesn't clog up the LFG thread. Most of the info is pulled from Reddit and Planet Destiny, as usual. SPOILERS, obviously.
GENERAL - No revives, just like VoG HM. - All enemies are level 33. If you were planning on bringing a level 31 character in...maybe think about coming up with a new plan. - All enemies are more aggressive and flinch much less often. - Any raid weapon drops are primary weapons only. Special and Heavy weapons are normal mode only.
THRALL ABYSS - Loot chest is a single drop. If you get it on normal, you won't get loot on hard, and vice versa. You'll get 2 shards or energies either way, difficulty doesn't matter. - Since the chest is extremely easy to get on your own, please consider getting it on your own ahead of time. That way the whole raid group doesn't have to spend time waiting for the chest to spawn at the first door when that time would be better spent actually completing the raid. - Despite rumors/misinformation to the contrary, the Weight of Darkness debuff works exactly the same as in normal mode. Approximately 13 seconds from x1 to the full x10 debuff. - All Cursed Thralls, Knights, and Ogres are now Majors (yellow health bar). - This section is still soloable using the same methods as in normal mode. - Oversoul Edict (Pulse Rifle) is a confirmed possible drop for completing this section.
THE BRIDGE - No major differences aside from what's been covered in the "General" section. - This section is still soloable using the same methods as in normal mode. - Abyss Defiant (Auto Rifle) is a confirmed possible drop. Oversoul Edict may drop here as well, but different sources have different info on this so I'm not listed it as confirmed yet.
THRALL/SHRIEKER HALLWAY - Shriekers can now respawn. - I haven't seen anything regarding the speedrun chest here, but I'm assuming it's a single drop just like the first chest.
IR YUT, THE DEATHSINGER - Liturgy of Ruin begins 1 minute and 40 seconds after the song begins. It's 3 minutes on normal mode, so you have about half as much time to get the kill on hard mode. - This is a single drop. If you complete this section on normal, you won't get loot on hard, and vice versa. You get 2 shards or energies, a chance at an exotic weapon or armor, and a chance at a raid class item (cloak, mark, bond) either way, difficulty doesn't matter. - There are no raid armor or raid weapon drops for this section.
CROTA, SON OF ORYX - No Chalice of Light. Your only source of healing is through weapon, armor, or class perks (see below). - Boomer Knights are now Majors (yellow health bar). - The Knight that would jump out onto Crota's platform thing is now a Hallowed Wizard. It appears to spawn only if the Boomers are killed. - Gatekeeper Knights spawn into the lower middle section, but can safely be ignored. However, this precludes you from going to the lower back room to kill Ogres, as the Gatekeeper will follow you all the way back there. - Enrage occurs when Crota's health hits about 15% remaining (3 sword slams away from death), regardless of elapsed time. The enrage timer is still there as well. - Glowhoo (shader) is a guaranteed drop. - Fang of Ir Yut (Scout Rifle), Word of Crota (Hand Cannon), S-13 Graverobber (sparrow), and Bane of the Dark Gods (ship) are confirmed possible drops. Crux of Crota (upgrade material for Eidolon Ally --> Necrochasm) should be available also, but I haven't seen confirmation of anyone actually getting it yet.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 22, 2015 11:21:30 GMT -5
ITEMS/PERKS THAT CAN RESTORE HEALTH DURING THE CROTA FIGHT
Weapons: - Red Death - SUROS Regime
Titan: - Insurmountable Skullfort (Infusion and Transfusion) - Any other helmet with the "Infusion" perk (replenish health upon picking up an orb of light) - Ward of Dawn with any modifier (Defender class) - Transfusion (Striker class)
Hunter: - Mask of the Third Man (Infusion) - Any other helmet with the "Infusion" perk - Hungering Blade (Bladedancer class)
Warlock: - Apotheosis Veil (Infusion and Private Reserves -- regen health upon Super activation) - Light Beyond Nemesis (Infusion) - Any other helmet with the "Infusion" perk - Life Steal (Voidwalker class)
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 22, 2015 11:21:40 GMT -5
Best Crota strategy I've seen so far:
Standard normal mode strategy works fine too, but we'll have to go back into the crystal room and to the right stairs when Ogres appear instead of retreating to back lower room like on normal. Same deal as usual other than that.
EDIT: Same video IW posted, no need to watch this if you watched that one already.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 22, 2015 11:29:56 GMT -5
Good post Heb. Here's what I found on Crota. Making it easier. www.cinemablend.com/games/Destiny-Players-Beat-Crota-End-Hard-Mode-30-Minutes-69603.htmlCliffnotes: 1. Take care of enemies in first room 2. Stand top middle, which is the outside ledge of the window you spawn at 3. All take out sword bearer 4. A Titan pops bubble on the right boomer tower 5. Sword bearer gets three damage phases 6. Rotate back into the room you spawn while Crota is on right 7. When Crota returns centre, back outside to the window ledge and repeat above method
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 22, 2015 12:23:01 GMT -5
A couple other suggestions/requests in addition to getting the Abyss chest on your own:
- Bring plenty of heavy ammo synthesis, and don't be stingy on using them. Smoke 'em if you got 'em, cuz we're gonna need 'em. - Bring all of your best weapons, cuz we'll need those too. Please don't sacrifice effectiveness for the sake of keeping your characters "self-reliant" or "self-sufficient." You can worry about that after we have hard mode down to a science, but now ain't the time.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 22, 2015 12:45:19 GMT -5
I did the Abyss chest Tuesday morning. My first character, took a few shots, the chest appeared at the 2nd lamp after a while. Tried another Warlock... I couldn't get the chest to appear anywhere. Like even after 15 attempts. It felt like something had changed.
To make matters worse, I can't remember which Warlock got the chest now.
As a side question. It would appear the only real benefit of doing the Hard mode is getting ...
1. The piece needed to make the Necrochasm.
2. Primary weapons (Auto, Hand, and Pulse). Is this a good prize? I really don't even use the Crota LMG and Shotgun now.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 22, 2015 14:10:57 GMT -5
2. Primary weapons (Auto, Hand, and Pulse). Is this a good prize? I really don't even use the Crota LMG and Shotgun now. They'd be pretty useful for Nightfalls (elemental damage) and repeated CE runs as they also all deal extra damage to hive majors. The auto rifle has a perk that disorients wizards. Pulse rifle can shoot through knight shields. Scout rifle highlights enemies upon causing damage. Hand cannon has a perk where 3 rapid precision hits put a round back in the mag, so theoretically it could have a 17 shot mag. Good enough for me.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 22, 2015 15:16:08 GMT -5
I won't lie to you....
Unless they upgrade the bank and inventory slots, this trend of making race specific damaging weapons is (to me) a bit off putting. So... in a bit, there'll be hive killers, vex killers that prevent them from going nuts when killing them , cabal killers (penetrate their shields?), and then Fallen killers (missed shots home in on victims?)
Although I do like the concept of evolving weapons and multiple elemental damage types
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Jan 22, 2015 15:56:42 GMT -5
Question - is the titan bube near the right boomer tower for weapons of light for the sword bearer?
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 22, 2015 16:05:36 GMT -5
Question - is the titan bube near the right boomer tower for weapons of light for the sword bearer? No, the bubble's sole purpose in this strategy is to block boomer knight fire so the boomers can't rain death on the swordrunner as he's attacking Crota. Weapons of light doesn't actually have any effect on sword damage anyway for some reason -- it'd be nice if it did though!
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Jan 22, 2015 16:39:25 GMT -5
Well, that video made the Crota fight look not so bad.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Jan 22, 2015 19:05:21 GMT -5
Generally it doesn't look bad...on the successful run. The issue is how many attempts it takes to get that successful run.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 23, 2015 8:56:34 GMT -5
It was hard last night. We ended up not getting it done.
That said, imho, we didn't fail because of difficulty. We all made a decision not to waste a lot of time on the very last stage, because we wanted to spend our time trying to get our other characters through too. Mal had to leave early, but some of us ended up with three runs. Now having three Deathsinger/orCrota checkpoints saved up. I think this was a good decision. But getting all our characters through the early stages of the Raid, we were able to get a lot of drops and chests. Even without finishing Crota last night, I ended up with like 20 Radiant Shards and 15 or so Radiant Energies, bracelet and two Raid Assault Rifles.
As far as the first four stages? Abyss was a little harder. But only three or four of us finished it on the 3rd attempt, and that was without cheesing. That last run, Heb and I got all the way to the top and crossed, just the two of us. Bridge stage is stupid easy. Easy loot. Bungie coders are dumbazzes. Shreiker hallway, easy still. Deathsinger? Harder, but on our first run, we got through on the first attempt (thanks to Heb's solo efforts)
As far as Crota. We really didn't try it that long. 30 min tops? I didn't feel like we were overwhelmed. We had a plan (center attack, in the above video) and it was mostly working. Well, it was working. Our errors were simply some timing issues that are normal with new raids and right on cue, glitches. One attempt we were rolling on, 5-10 min in, Crota glitched out and never kneeled down (or at least did 30 sec later). Frustrating. With a little bit of timing, working out quirks, it will be done. We really didn't have any issues with the Gatekeeper, KNights or Wizards. Well, I don't think we ever saw a wizard. The plan worked.
Definitely less room for error though, especially with no chalice and the boomers dropping those bombs down upon people. You really have to be aware of your surroundings while moving around the map.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 23, 2015 10:36:13 GMT -5
Agreed. I'm pretty sure we would've gotten Crota done if we kept at it, but getting as many drops as possible for everyone involved was a better use of the time we had. The only issues with Crota are getting the timing and communication worked out on the new strategy we're using and not running into glitches/lag. Nothing we can do about glitches, and the timing stuff will sort itself out with more attempts. I also think everyone shooting rockets to get Crota down would help -- we only had 2 or 3 it seemed like, which was fine since we were trying to learn and there wasn't much point in burning heavy sythns just for the sake of learning. 4 or 5 guys each shooting 1 rocket each and following up with primary fire should down him every time. Give it another hour's worth of attempts and we'll be good to go from now on.
Outside of the Crota fight...yeah, pretty easy still, and not much different than normal mode. I think (hope) everyone ended up with some good drops. I got 2 pulse rifles, 2 auto rifles, a couple duplicate armor pieces, and most importantly the 21 shards I needed to get my 3rd character to 32, so I'm pretty content right now. Not bad for 3 hours of effort!
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 23, 2015 11:02:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I forgot to mention that before. I got like four or five pieces of armor too. I got all three of my Warlocks to Lv32 on Tuesday. That was one very heavy grind. But I am done. I should frame this dumb pic below, for the time I put into it.
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Post by thebb22 on Jan 23, 2015 11:08:26 GMT -5
Holy brightness Batman! This is like the polar opposite of Scorpion mode.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 23, 2015 11:10:36 GMT -5
Holy brightness Batman! This is like the polar opposite of Scorpion mode. Do you think that might blind Witty lol, based on what he is used to? (* I had a light on in the room, use a phone to take the pic, made it brighter)
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Post by thebb22 on Jan 23, 2015 12:02:53 GMT -5
He'll scroll past it, and it'll be like a Titan flashbang grenade just hit him right in the face.
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markopolo
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Post by markopolo on Jan 23, 2015 12:05:56 GMT -5
So... if Scorpion Mode is one end of the spectrum... is 5K Mode the other?
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Post by thebb22 on Jan 23, 2015 12:36:24 GMT -5
I feel like there's some sort of HD joke to be made here. "5K Mode.....taking 4K HD to the next level!"
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jan 23, 2015 16:14:26 GMT -5
So I think after two solid days of this I think I "figured out" the Crota fight. It's just good ol' fashioned bringing order to the mass of chaos again...ala Hard mode Atheon.
Some tips I guess.
Straight out the gate have a titan with Blessing of light super ready. In fact, the mode defender titans (2-4) the better. Warlocks dropping orbs help to chain supers, but you really want to be getting your blessing of light bubbles every 45 seconds. Having blessing of light at the beginning means that you can clear the first room without anyone taking damage. The bubbles also take out boomer fire on a side for 45 seconds. Two people coordinating can shut down a side easily. Not killing boomers means the wizards don't spawn...so there i actually a bonus to that strategy.
Next, that middle window strategy (where you ignore boomers) is tedious if you don't get a perfect two sword cycles. That is what the youtube videos don't tell you. It is also much more difficult for the sword carrier since they have to be down on the ground with very little backup while they are taking down the swordbearer. The groups I have played with actually don't employ this strategy because too much can go wrong.
The most effective strategy I have seen involves 2 people on dedicated boomer duty. 2 people on dedicated Crota downing duty. 1 person who switches between the previous roles. 1 sword carrier. If the two dedicated to boomer duty are defender titans then all the better... when they get super they can lock out boomers for 45 seconds AND provide 4 orbs for the swordbearer. This allows for a much more flexible plan.
If the ogres come...it is not the end of the world. Once we get to ogres we just take our sweet time. First, we shift right and take out the boomers/lock them out with bubbles if the supers are up. Then we slowly fight through thrall and take down the ogres. Then, when Crota shifts back to middle we all shift left through the main building and repeat the process. On this part you have more than enough time to switch to a health regeneration weapon/armor piece and switch back if you need to.
If you need a third sword take your time. You want to get past the enrage as cleanly as possible so be opportunistic. Wait til the wizard/boomers as dealt with. Wait til the swordbearer is close. Wait til Crota just moved. Just be calm and collected.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 23, 2015 16:31:22 GMT -5
Yeah, agree on that middle part. Our sword holder on our attempts (Aroc), he got caught alone a number of times in that no-man's land.
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Jan 23, 2015 17:11:22 GMT -5
Yeah, agree on that middle part. Our sword holder on our attempts (Aroc), he got caught alone a number of times in that no-man's land. Yeah, I think that is where the overall communication suffered. He wasn't really calling out when he was going down, so it was hard to prepare. Just a case of not having played with Aroc in this raid before. He went Rambo a little bit, which I wasn't ready for. Edit: hit submit too fast... I think we were making progress. We would have nailed it soon enough. Just a case of feeling out the new mechanics, adjusting to new roles, and working out communication. I still thought it was pretty fun, and I'm stoked on our rapid progress.
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Post by iw5000 on Jan 23, 2015 17:31:09 GMT -5
The problem was, the Sword Bearer doesn't always come at us. When we are on the side, we can still see him with long sightlines and potshot him. But when standing in the middle, it's a very restricted line of sight. So when Aroc was drawing him to the middle, (as we didn't want to waste time)...he was getting shot at. But even more so, after he was done smacking Crota. On the escape back to us. I think he got killed a few times, from the Boomers shooting at him.
Fair point by Dumien. We may be avoiding all the boomer fire, by being in the middle...but the swordbearer gets a lot of heavy fire on them. If we take them out, Dumien's way, that's less fire the sword bro has to deal with while he escapes.
Repetition and mechanics. I actually though the regular Crota felt harder the first time through, than how that felt last night. Couple more runs, roles defined, we'll nail it. We only did like life four or five attempts.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 24, 2015 11:19:12 GMT -5
Looks like our group might be a little light on number of Titans if we want to get 3 hard runs per week.
I have 1, I think that Hebb/THebb/may each have 1 as well? We may need to do 4 crota fight each week to make sure we have 2-3 Titans per run.
However, that's more for latter as now we can focus on getting this done at least once a week. There is no hurry and we don't have to have 3 runs every week.
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wittyscorpion
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Post by wittyscorpion on Jan 24, 2015 11:40:20 GMT -5
Datto presented a 3 swords strategy. The most I like about it is that it looks "robust": no need for specific equipments and no tight timing requirements:
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malgato
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Post by malgato on Jan 24, 2015 20:57:29 GMT -5
Looks like our group might be a little light on number of Titans if we want to get 3 hard runs per week. I have 1, I think that Hebb/THebb/may each have 1 as well? We may need to do 4 crota fight each week to make sure we have 2-3 Titans per run. However, that's more for latter as now we can focus on getting this done at least once a week. There is no hurry and we don't have to have 3 runs every week. I have a titan, but need around 20 more shards to get him to 32.
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 26, 2015 10:20:22 GMT -5
Another take on the middle strat. I like how they deal with Ogres so easily in this one. This should also be a robust strategy that can work for any group as it doesn't rely on Titan bubbles, Hunter invisible swordrunners*, or any other specific equipment or class builds.
*: Absolutely THE single most overrated and ridiculous "requirement" for this fight IMHO. If you can't get 3 hits per down without relying on being an invisible Hunter, you're doing it wrong. Period, end of story. Sorry.
Text explanation:
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hebbnh
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Post by hebbnh on Jan 26, 2015 12:42:10 GMT -5
Also, we need to try this. If it works, that whole fight should be hilariously easy.
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Dumien
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Post by Dumien on Jan 26, 2015 12:59:05 GMT -5
That anti-ogre strat is by far the best I've seen yet. Fantastic find G. I'm still not convinced of the middle ledge strat because of things that usually happen like 8:41 of that video. P.S. if my power doesn't go down I'm ready for another go tonight. This blizzard is so real...I'm not normally into weather but you guys should check it out...supposedly it is the biggest since 78... haha. My class got cancelled.
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