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Post by TheHawkNY on Apr 8, 2015 8:51:33 GMT -5
I do not agree that the skill gap is that small in raids. Sure, you can finish a raid if you are a noob with the right weapons and right tactics, but "skill" surely is a big factor. I played crota's end hard mode yesterday with a 4 man fire-team, and we only wiped once at the bridge (2nd run) and once at Ir Yut (1st run). We did crota himself flawless both times. These were some of the core players of the +- 15 players I regularly raid with, and the moment we cleared our 2nd run there was no question for me that skill indeed makes a (big) difference. A few weeks ago we were struggling with 6. We have had the same stuff with VOG, sometimes it was taking several hours, but with the right team, I think it never took us longer than an hour. These are the players which have been gaming for several years, and multiple have flawress raider and crota solo on their résumé. While raiding is all about having the right weapons, there surely still is a (pretty big) skill factor involved. Raids are much more about experience than skill. Sure, you gain skill from experience. But a lot of it is simply knowing what you are doing.
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Post by iw5000 on Apr 8, 2015 9:17:50 GMT -5
I don't believe I said 'EVERY' player is a scrub. If I did, that was just exaggerating for effect. And as far as 'facts'? Destiny's IB does indeed reward bad gameplay. That is a fact. It allows gross mismatches due to leveling differences for starters. That is encouraging bad gameplay, watching some level 32 player stomp down a few underequipped opponents, solely because he is level 32. Not good gameplay. How can anyone say that is good? And the challenges? Get headshots? Get LMG headshots? Most of the challenges in IB are not geared to the game mode being used. And i'll be blunt, this would be a ridiculously easy fix to make, making ALL the challenges relate to the control game mode. Does Bungie do this. No. Playing the objective versus kill-whoring is a long standing problem in FPSers, on that I agree. I have b1tched heavily about this in CoD. And CoD has responded over the years, implanting tons of subtle and not so subtle changes. The "20 headshots with a primary" bounty has a few purposes: it encourages players to play a certain number of games per day to complete it; discourages players from running around using only a shotgun; it reiterates to players unfamiliar with Crucible the value of headshots. The LMG headshots bounty reiterates the value of heavy ammo (fun fact - most players, even the ones I play with, still don't get it), and discourages players from using rocket launchers (which most players find annoying). Seems to me like they put a lot more thought into them than you are giving them credit for. I give them no credit hawk. The above serve no value or use in the Iron Banner. Nonewhatsoever. I'll take what you said, point for point. - The primary headshot bounty. This discourages people from running around with a shotgun? Really? How's that working these days? - If the bright 'yellow' highlighted numbers after a headshot (that are also significantly higher than bodyshots), can't educate idiots to the value of headshots, ....then a more subtle bounty that is buried in the bounty list, doesn't stand a chance in hell of ever educating them. And if Bungie thinks the above is how to educate, then they are more stupid than anyone of us even realize. - The Iron Banner is now supposed to be a teaching tool to educate dumbazzes on the value of Heavy Ammo? Come on Hawk. I have been told IB is all about the armor, a venue that rewards people who have put in long hours to get the best ammo, and are at levels 30, 31 and 32. People who are at this point, who have grinded this long....we really need to put LMG bounties into the IB, to 'educate' them on the value of heavy ammo? Seriously? Come on Hawk, that comes across as trying to troll me.
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Post by TheHawkNY on Apr 8, 2015 10:10:04 GMT -5
Last Iron Banner, I got killed by the Thorn more frequently than by shotguns, so I'd say it worked pretty well at discouraging people from running around with a shotgun.
Yes, Iron Banner is all about the armor, but the level difference doesn't matter at all when one person is using rockets. And yes, almost everyone I've seen needs education on the value of heavy ammo. I've yelled at teammates that were busy fighting some enemy on a flag, when they could have just gone to the heavy ammo and come back with a rocket.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Apr 8, 2015 13:30:07 GMT -5
Forgive me, but wasn't the shotgun buff purely PVE and not PVP related?
I could see the Thorn being a very decent PVP weapon.
But what do I know.....
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Post by TheHawkNY on Apr 8, 2015 14:32:25 GMT -5
Yes, the shotguns just had their range nerfed in PvP. However, it's not extremely noticable, while at the same time fusion rifles got nerfed more significantly, so the end result was almost no one uses them over shotguns anymore.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Apr 8, 2015 14:36:04 GMT -5
GAH!!!! The one weapon I actually used effectively in PVP.... my Plug One.1 nerfed? So sadz!
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Apr 10, 2015 7:58:54 GMT -5
GAH!!!! The one weapon I actually used effectively in PVP.... my Plug One.1 nerfed? So sadz! Too many Guardian tears on Reddit I guess. The only fusion rifles I've been killed by fairly recently are the Pocket Infinity and the Plan-C. Neither of those you'd use if you had a fair amount of exotics.
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wittyscorpion
True Brorange
All warfare is based on deception.
Posts: 8,598
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Post by wittyscorpion on Apr 10, 2015 11:57:17 GMT -5
The main way I am having fun with Crucible and IB these days, is to spent time crafting peculiar builds that is focused to maximize advantages of class / subclass / weapons / armors, and see if I can just piss people off to the greatest with these advantages.
Examples include:
1) Gunslinger sniping build, on maps like Blind Watch / Shore of Time 2) Bladedancer + TLW + Shotty + Blink Strike combo
While Destiny does not offer (at least not yet) intense 1v1 encounters in which two players are trying to out play each other through superior gun skills (like the BR dance in Halo, or twitch shooting in CoD. On the other hand Destiny currently has too big of a focus of who has "better" or "more annoying" guns), it does offer lots of options in making custom build. For players who are into that sort of thing, it can be a fun factor.
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markopolo
True Bro
Once a LMG Camper, Then a Voidlock, Now a Lexington 25-8-366 Runner
Posts: 5,567
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Post by markopolo on Apr 10, 2015 12:55:08 GMT -5
GAH!!!! The one weapon I actually used effectively in PVP.... my Plug One.1 nerfed? So sadz! Too many Guardian tears on Reddit I guess. The only fusion rifles I've been killed by fairly recently are the Pocket Infinity and the Plan-C. Neither of those you'd use if you had a fair amount of exotics. well, to get this thorn bounty done, immastill use it. Did they nerf damage or range or both?
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wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
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Post by wings on Apr 10, 2015 13:51:21 GMT -5
Too many Guardian tears on Reddit I guess. The only fusion rifles I've been killed by fairly recently are the Pocket Infinity and the Plan-C. Neither of those you'd use if you had a fair amount of exotics. well, to get this thorn bounty done, immastill use it. Did they nerf damage or range or both? I believe they increased the spread of the bolts from the fusion rifles to make OHK less frequent unless you are very close. I never found them to be too of an issue because I hear them quite a fair way and I usually strafed sideways to dodge the shots. The only one that catches me by surprise is the Plan-C, which is its job.
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