wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 28, 2015 11:56:42 GMT -5
MG's still need more of a niche in the game. One would think they would be ideal for mowing down hordes of enemies, and while they can do some work there it's not that great. Maybe some non damage tweaks could help. More flinch/stagger, more reserve ammo, maybe some suppression behavior... maybe more overpenetration.... perhaps more knock-back. A lot of possibilities there, and you could keep it PvE only. Of course the only reason they don't get overshadowed in PvP as well as PvE is because you rarely have huge clusters of enemies in PvP and there are no bullet spongy bosses in PvP either. Well they already separate one suppression effect so it is PvE only with High Calibre rounds I believe. The stupid move was to give Thorn the green screen and yanking movement. Like, seriously if you are going to give suppression effects to weapons it should be machine guns and not a bloody pistol. If they had more stagger, perhaps overran the Angry modifier slightly, then it's worth sacrificing a rocket launcher because you could do use a sniper rifle and machine gun more often instead of hand cannon, in case you don't want to sacrifice a sniper rifle for a shotgun, and a rocket launcher for those epic bullet sponges we have. I mean it's the same with Firefly, what is that doing on Fatebringer and scout rifles?
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Jul 28, 2015 12:08:12 GMT -5
Prox is a bit OP, more so in ToO than Control I would say, though. I still usually just go with MG on Control because of the ability to hold a defensive position for an extended amount of time opposed to getting a handful of rocket kills.
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Jul 28, 2015 12:13:04 GMT -5
Firefly rewards precision kills. That sounds perfect for scout rifles and hand cannons to me. It does make those more precision weapons potentially better than less precise weapons that should logically be good for crowds, though. Maybe there should be a similar perk for MG's and AR's only instead of rewarding precision kills they reward killing in fast succession or hitting multiple targets or something.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 28, 2015 14:35:15 GMT -5
I guess I'll throw out a few thoughts here. Too much going on to respond individually to some of the points that have been brought up. 1. Somebody is going to have to show me where this huge, sweeping nerf to everything other than ARs is coming from. I've read the patch notes three times and as far as I can tell that giant nerf ball does not exist. There is a massive overreaction going on here. I don't see all that much changing overall based on what I've seen. 2. Regarding those patch notes, from my reading, it looks like the following is happening. ARs get buffed. Good, they're pointless right now. PRs get a slight damage nerf and a mag size buff. Overall not much of a change. SRs get a couple buffs. Cool! HCs get some nerfs. Whatevs, probably deserved since HCs are far and away the best choice for any PvE content. Shotguns get a slight nerf. Fine, they will wreck everything up close anyway, the shot package accuracy reduction might make full auto better for PvP but it's too early to tell. FRs get nerfed again I guess? Don't get that, but I don't use them so whatever. Snipers are left alone except for final round, which needed to be fixed for PvP. MGs aren't mentioned so the assumption is they're not changing. Fine. RLs get a blast radius buff, but prox detonation gets a nerf. Good, prox rockets are too good in PvP vs all other heavy options. 3. If you're concerned that guns you spent countless motes and weapon parts on are suddenly going to become garbage, I think you're overreacting to say the least. Your sniper isn't being affected at all unless you were one of those final rounding scrubs, in which case, good, you're getting what you deserve. Your MG isn't being affected at all. Your RL with prox detonation is still top dog among RLs. Your shotgun may or may not be god-tier anymore, but honestly, that's fine by me. Shotgun range has gotten a bit out of hand anyway. Sorry, but I don't think having to possibly reroll one shotgun is that big of a deal. Nobody used legendary primaries seriously anyway, so I don't think having to potentially reroll those is an issue either. 4. Exotic changes. Hard Light gets a buff. Good, it's useless now. Same with Necrochasm. The Last Word and Thorn both get nerfs. Hard to tell exactly how big those nerfs are at this point, but considering they're the only two primaries used 90+% of the time for PvP, I don't think that's a bad thing. Hawkmoon...XONE bro, don't care. Ice Breaker gets a slower regen rate. Seems pointless, but then again I rarely even use the thing as it is now anyway. NLB gets a buff finally, very good. Black Hammer's white nail perk gets a nerf. I don't really see that changing much as it's still going to be the bullet sponge boss stomper of choice. Lord of Wolves gets a buff. Cool I guess. Gjallarhorn wolfpack rounds are getting nerfed. Come on, everyone saw this coming, and everyone knows it was necessary. It's still most likely going to be the top choice for burning a boss down quickly, just a little less quickly than before. Overall I just don't see anything worth getting that worked up over. 5. This is nothing like TDB exotic releveling. It's barely even comparable. Rerolling a legendary gun or two and turning in 10 or 12 bounties in a couple hours to level it all the way up is nothing compared to the huge amount of regrinding necessary to relevel all the vanilla exotics. Not even close. 6. If anyone thought they'd be using HoW guns for more than a few months...I really have no idea why you thought that. Outside of VoG weapons, almost everyone switched to the new, higher damage TDB weapons when TDB released. Outside of VoG, CE, and a select few TDB weapons worth ascending (i.e. Felwinter's, Jolder's, and a couple snipers), everyone replaced their TDB stuff with HoW guns. Newsflash: When TTK comes out, you're going to be replacing the current best guns with whatever the new TTK best guns are sooner or later. Unless of course those new guns aren't that good (i.e. PoE weapons), in which case your current guns will work just fine. This rebalancing isn't making anything irrelevant that wasn't going to be made irrelevant anyway. To put it another way, did anyone really expect to be using year 1 gear past year 1 in an MMO-style loot-based game? I hope not. That's just not how it works. Do you really want to be using Fatebringer and Gjallarhorn 2, 3, 10 years from now? I don't. I want new, interesting toys to play with. 7. On bullet sponge boss mechanics and so forth. Yes, that needs to go away and some new mechanics need to be added. We all know this. I expect it to happen with TTK, which may just be wishful thinking on my part, but we'll see. If it does happen with TTK though, I think a lot of the concerns about the IB, BH, and Gjally nerfs will fade away very quickly. I'm hoping the rebalancing is just a precursor to those new mechanics being implemented. Trying to read what you said Heb, but all I keep seeing is seeing you tossing in words like concerned, overreacting, worked up and things like that...pretty much addressed to me. Look, it's a topic. Nothing else to talk about on here. So I offered my thoughts. Being 'worked up' would be me writing letters to Bungie, going to their twitter account, email campaign, etc... Here? I've tossed like three or four posts into the ring for discussion, another take on this topic. I'm about as worked up on this as I am with the Greek debt crisis. I can leave this topic and board in the next ten minutes, and not give a shit about this. It's just a topic. Anyways, with that, i don't find it wrong on my end to be not liking the idea of having to re-roll stuff again. It's not just a 'shotgun' as you dismissed it as. I spent time leveling up and re-rolling like five shotguns. I also did that for three launchers. Two sniper rifles. Ten guns? Maybe a few more? Keep in mind, i am about a month or more behind many of you. I just got all these re-roll weapons done not long ago. It would have been nice to use them more than one IB , ...as now i might have to re-roll stuff again, to the new favorite gun. I don't think my views on this are that out of line. They are valid. But the above was never my main point. The main point was about design philosophy. A topic. I just think their efforts would be better served trying to fix the PvE environment, rather than addressing it through weakening guns that we use. And while you dismissed things as saying it's not many guns, just about every gun i personally use, seems like it will be affected to some degree, weakening it. Is this going to affect my life on a personal level? No. But on a message board discussion level, purely for discussion sake, i think it's a bad move on bungie's part.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 28, 2015 14:55:09 GMT -5
If you're concerned that guns you spent countless motes and weapon parts on are suddenly going to become garbage, I think you're overreacting to say the least. Well, I imagine weapon parts are pretty scarce for many people, even if they do not perpetually reforge weapons, so hearing your reforged weapon will make players anxious. It's not like you can buy buy weapon parts easily. The best opportunity is to get 7 wins in Trials and buy a bucket load of weapons just to break them for weapon parts.
|
|
hebbnh
True Bro
Cacodemon expert
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by hebbnh on Jul 28, 2015 15:47:33 GMT -5
Trying to read what you said Heb, but all I keep seeing is seeing you tossing in words like concerned, overreacting, worked up and things like that...pretty much addressed to me. Look, it's a topic. Nothing else to talk about on here. So I offered my thoughts. Being 'worked up' would be me writing letters to Bungie, going to their twitter account, email campaign, etc... Here? I've tossed like three or four posts into the ring for discussion, another take on this topic. I'm about as worked up on this as I am with the Greek debt crisis. I can leave this topic and board in the next ten minutes, and not give a shit about this. It's just a topic. Anyways, with that, i don't find it wrong on my end to be not liking the idea of having to re-roll stuff again. It's not just a 'shotgun' as you dismissed it as. I spent time leveling up and re-rolling like five shotguns. I also did that for three launchers. Two sniper rifles. Ten guns? Maybe a few more? Keep in mind, i am about a month or more behind many of you. I just got all these re-roll weapons done not long ago. It would have been nice to use them more than one IB , ...as now i might have to re-roll stuff again, to the new favorite gun. I don't think my views on this are that out of line. They are valid. But the above was never my main point. The main point was about design philosophy. A topic. I just think their efforts would be better served trying to fix the PvE environment, rather than addressing it through weakening guns that we use. And while you dismissed things as saying it's not many guns, just about every gun i personally use, seems like it will be affected to some degree, weakening it. Is this going to affect my life on a personal level? No. But on a message board discussion level, purely for discussion sake, i think it's a bad move on bungie's part. First, it's not addressed to anyone in particular, it's my thoughts on some of the points brought up in the last couple pages worth of posts. I was on vacation all weekend and didn't get much of chance to keep up with stuff until today. I don't know what other words to use. If it's impacting someone enough that it's worth posting about multiple times, then it must be concerning on some level, right? And if that's followed by a "Bungie is making my guns worthless!" type of post, I'd call that an overreaction. That doesn't seem like too much of a stretch of logic to me, so those were the words that I used. No need to read into them so deeply if that's not what you meant. No harm intended there. Second, you've assumed that these changes mean you have to reroll and relevel your guns. Why? Snipers aren't changing, so throw them out. MGs aren't changing, so throw them out too. Your rocket launchers aren't changing enough from what we know right now that you'd want a different third perk over grenades and horseshoes, meaning your current god-tier rolls are still going to be god-tier or, at the very least, top-tier once the rebalancing happens. And if not...so what? TTK is right around the corner after the rebalancing, and you're probably going to replace those launchers anyway. Same story on shotguns. We have no idea what difference the 30% reduction in shot package spread tightening will actually do vs other perks in that slot. I imagine if want a max range one-shotting shotgun, you'll still want shot package, so no re-rolling necessary. If full auto becomes the better option, then reroll your favorite shotgun for full auto. And again, those guns are probably getting replaced soon after TTK comes out. I just see it as a non-issue. I spent half a gazillion motes and weapon parts on 7 or 8 guns too -- 3 shotguns, 3 snipers, an MG, and a launcher IIRC. I don't care if they're not the best of the best 2 months from now, because I never had any expectation that they would be. That's how the game has always worked. New content comes out, gear gets replaced, rinse, repeat. Third, yes. 100% agree. There absolutely needs to be some more interesting mechanics added instead of the bullet sponge and cheese routine we have now. Should that take precedence over weapon balancing? I don't know. PvP is nothing but Thorn and TLW. It's ridiculous and something had to be done sooner or later. PvE is almost nothing but the guns that are getting nerfed. Ice Breaker taking longer to recharge is stupid, though I don't mind that as I generally run other snipers anyway. Black Hammer...I don't think it makes that big of difference, but we'll see. Gjallarhorn was obvious. I think TTK will fix the bullet sponge and cheese stuff we see so much of now, so those guns being weakened won't really amount to much. And again...new guns in TTK are liable to outclass some of those anyway.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 28, 2015 16:00:07 GMT -5
First, it's not addressed to anyone in particular, it's my thoughts on some of the points brought up in the last couple pages worth of posts. I was on vacation all weekend and didn't get much of chance to keep up with stuff until today. I don't know what other words to use. If it's impacting someone enough that it's worth posting about multiple times, then it must be concerning on some level, right? Actually, no. It's just the only post that has anything interesting to talk about. Well, actually the only post that has anything going on. I felt like putting up some posts up, so this is the place it goes. Got to discuss something. I came up with some thoughts, and added to them to the mix. I'm not saying I'm just 'stiring the shit', as I do feel Bungie is going about it wrong, but the level of concern ends as soon as I am done typing Well, I never said that. My point was I like just got done doing all that re-rolling stuff recently. I want to use the guns. yeah, i find that lame. I haven't even used the Matador one yet. And I never said the guns will be 'worthless' though. Worthless in this game is kind of meaningless, as most of the game can be done with anything. Why not? We discuss everything to death on this board. If only practical things were discussed, no one would ever go hear again. Everything here is built upon the foundation of 'what if'
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 28, 2015 16:31:53 GMT -5
No need to re-roll for a full auto shotgun. Get the Found Verdict from the Vault of Glass.
|
|
mannon
True Bro
wordy bastard PSN:mannonc Steam:mannonc XB:BADmannon
Posts: 15,371
|
Post by mannon on Jul 28, 2015 16:47:55 GMT -5
I don't think he was projecting your level of concern from this board to your real life... but by that same token most of us don't interact with you in real life. Your real life is a big fat unknown and the person in it may as well be fictitious to us. What we see is here. If you express "concern" here no matter how minor then I think it's a fair word to use. In other words it bothered you enough to say it bothered you, and that got a reply.
I'm sorry if you feel like your investment in your weapons isn't paying off because things are changing before you've had a chance to really use them. I actually sympathize completely. That's the story of my entire game, practically. I only just started crawling up towards the level cap when it was changed... both times. This time I caught up quicker due to PoE and EL from Iron Banner. Hell I never even ran VoG before the VoG armor was obsolete, and the same for CE. What few pieces I've gotten are just hanging around in my inventory for me to decide if they're worth levelling and ascending. I'm probably not going to even get to use any EL on my legendary weapons before TTK at the rate I'm going.
But oh well. The game changes constantly. It has since it launched. It's great for those with tons of playtime to get all the new toys as quickly as possible. For the rest of us it means the game is literally an infinite treadmill and we'll never actually max out. There's always something else to grind, reforge, or loot.
|
|
wings
True Bro
Posts: 3,776
|
Post by wings on Jul 28, 2015 17:20:28 GMT -5
I'm actually doing Iron Banner with my Warlock to level up my full VoG gear and I'll probably ascend it. I'm actually better off with my Iron Banner gear because I have 99% Intellect and 100% Discipline.
|
|
|
Post by iw5000 on Jul 28, 2015 20:09:38 GMT -5
No need to re-roll for a full auto shotgun. Get the Found Verdict from the Vault of Glass. I have the Found Verdict and already have it at 365. I'm referring to the three other new shotguns.
|
|